Have the Conservatives lost their way?

I love this website and all the knowledge and insider access it gives us who are starving for those information, but sometimes i feel that we allow ourselves to think only in terms of been conservative. I say this because this article came out on Bloomberg showing that Bernanke has been one of the best Fed Chief ever and has been spot on with his predictions. Even with the facts on his side Republicans such Boehner, Romney and Ron Paul all have accused him of been the worst Fed Chiefs ever and keep stating that they would fire him if they were in office.... What does that say about conservative leaders? That a man who does a fantastic job is not rewarded but demonized....I know you guys want to hate Obama but at least he seems to care more about getting results then whatever Boehner and Romney wants....Osama, Gaddafi, reversal of job losses from when Bush left,
I dont know what else to say.....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-08/bernanke…

 

It all comes down to whether you support taking from people who have and giving it to the have-nots. That's what this election will come down to. Do we want to move towards a European nanny state or do we want to revert to the America of the past. For those in the know, the question might boil down to whether we want to lean towards Keynesian-ish economics or towards free market/Milton Friedman-ish economics. There are great arguments from the Chicago school and Austrian school against how Obama is doing things. Read some books.

 

I support the politicians who I think are best for the country. 61% of America right now believes that Romney will say anything to become president. Obama, despite some things I really don't agree with or understand, has overseen a stabilization of vital sectors.

I'm not voting this time around. Whoever I support inevitable loses. I hope America starts thinking right and does the best thing this year.

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
I support the politicians who I think are best for the country. 61% of America right now believes that Romney will say anything to become president. Obama, despite some things I really don't agree with or understand, has overseen a stabilization of vital sectors.

I'm not voting this time around. Whoever I support inevitable loses. I hope America starts thinking right and does the best thing this year.

Thank you UFO for stating your point without resorting to baseless insults. I agree with most of what you said and i will be voting because as a black man i earned my right to vote :)

Beast
 

I disagree with Obama's economic policies and think that they are detrimental to the recovery. "Jobs saved" is such a joke of a metric, no one that wasn't a politician would use it. I think that eventually using Keynesianism we will come out of the recession (in the minds of American not according to the NBER) but I think some supply side reforms would be better and faster in doing so. Obama is for more regulations, more taxes, and more redistribution- all things that I oppose. Does anyone else see how stupid that the new SEC money-market fund rules are? I would hope a Republican president would send down some orders telling the SEC to STFU. Obama's ideal state appears to be Sweden- where no one wins and no one loses. I do not think that that is fair in any sense of the word and his vitriolic class-warfare rhetoric doesn't help his case in my book. I am somewhat a fan of his foreign policy tactics, so I'm not going to go there, but the Bernanke thing is not 100% set in stone yet. It matters what happens when the recovery is done and we are in a market uptick. Will the velocity of money go crazy? Wil we have inflation and have to jack interest rates through the ceiling? Will nothing happen? History will judge Bernanke in the long run, but in the SR I think he has done what was necessary. The fact that he hasn't done a real QE3 shows to me the best aspects of an independent central banking authority. Rather than pander to political pressure we are trying to recover on what we have.

Reality hits you hard, bro...
 

If Obama would simply focus on cutting taxes and reducing the debt I would vote for him. That and repealing his shitty healthcare plan.

I cannot support someone who things it is right and lawful to rob people simply because he thinks they have too much. Government is only supposed to do a few select things and Democrats seem determined to expand it until government is part of everyone's life.

 

We (Barry and myself) have a fundamental difference in viewpoint regarding the role of the federal government and thus I would just about vote for a brick tied to a lever before I would vote for him.

Me helping people with my money = charity :)

You helping people with my money = theft :(

Conservatives problems are multitude but the biggest one is the constituency to which they have to pander. We're in trouble when being called a "moderate conservative" is used as an insult during the primary.

 
Best Response
Cartwright:
Conservatives problems are multitude but the biggest one is the constituency to which they have to pander. We're in trouble when being called a "moderate conservative" is used as an insult during the primary.

That is in my view the biggest issue with the conservatives right now.

Romney is a case in point. He basically has to campaign against himself. Whatever successes he's had in the past in politics or business (or even his religion) becomes his weakness, which is why it's hard for him to stay on message. If you were in his shoes, you would too. And if you tried to be true to yourself, you end up where Huntsman ended up -- marginalized and out of the race. His political successes in the past would be seen as "too liberal". He is "not a true Christian" (muttering under their breaths of course). And his success in business is seen as a liability amongst Republicans - a party that is known for being pro-business.

So to stay relevant, his "message" and who he is becomes in a way contradictory, but everyone else and the other candidates sees that and attacks him for it, knowing he has no choice but to say whatever he needs to say even if it is to distance himself from his biggest asset (his past successes).

There's the more centrist conservatives like Romney, Huntsman, Giuliani, Bloomberg, and even Schwarzenegger... but the problem is that when it comes to campaign financing, they are competing for the same pool of donors as the centrist Dems (which Obama, Clinton, et al will be latching onto for re-election) - so it's money and votes that will be split (and from 2008 onwards has favored the Dems and probably wil continue to do so through 2012). The social conservatives on the other hand have a captive audience, a near monopoly in drawing in money, audiences, and votes. Hence the problem with the current conservative movement. If you want to know the heart of a political party, follow the money.

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

Isn't this an issue with the Dems also? A party made of of highly educated, well off people and dirt poor lower income people. You think gay rights matter to a union guy in Michigan? Every party has to make sacrifices.

I just want to see Federal workers laid off and agencies closed. That would make me squeal with glee.

 
ANT:
Isn't this an issue with the Dems also? A party made of of highly educated, well off people and dirt poor lower income people. You think gay rights matter to a union guy in Michigan? Every party has to make sacrifices.

I just want to see Federal workers laid off and agencies closed. That would make me squeal with glee.

Basically the problem isn't conservative or liberal, republican or democrat.

It's the system. Money dictates politics more than ever to the point where I've read somewhere that 94% of elections are won by the candidate who raises the most money. Money buys airtime, but more importantly, money buys the right to shut out your opponent from airtime. And with the whole super PAC thing, it's only going to get worse unfortunately.

Also, I think most people don't realize how much of politics is and has always been "show business". Both sides say outrageous things precisely to get people riled up. If they were reasonable and level headed in public, they would be boring. And "boring" doesn't win elections.

Did you know for example that Ann Coulter and Bill Maher are good friends?

If politicians were as extreme and nutty as they seem to be in public, why would conservatives go on Colbert to be mocked?

Politics was a reality show before that concept existed.

Even during the Cold War, it's only coming out now that there was a greater disconnect between the rhetoric (what is said in public on both sides) and what actually was going on behind closed doors. The reason why we didn't blow the world up to smithereens is because of the real off-the-record dialogue that was happening on both sides when the cameras and journalists weren't around.

Both sides of the aisle are more chummy with each other than they would ever want the public to realize.

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

[quote=MBAApply] It's the system. Money dictates politics more than ever to the point where I've read somewhere that 94% of elections are won by the candidate who raises the most money. Money buys airtime, but more importantly, money buys the right to shut out your opponent from airtime. And with the whole super PAC thing, it's only going to get worse unfortunately.[/quote=MBAApply]

It's not about the money. It should be a financial free for all, because, f**k it, money doesn't have any empirically demonstrated impact. Reference http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-… (I'm not a huge huge Freakonomics fan, but this summarizes most of the info).

"When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is." - Oscar Wilde "Seriously, psychology is for those with two x chromosomes." - RagnarDanneskjold
 

I think Obama has definitely accomplished a couple of "milestones" but he has also missed the mark on a lot of key issues. While we could argue that the obama administration stabilized the economy, I really am not convinced his policies have been the force of the recovery. I also think that many of his administration's policies will have more of a crippling effect down the line - 5 to 10 years from now - when he is no longer running this country. it's that shortsightedness that worries me.

the "republican" party is a circus - few actually espouse conservative ideals in my opinion. i like ron paul's style, some of romney's ideas, and not much else out there...i find it really hard for a republican candidate to beat obama this year, despite his low approval rating.

at the end of the day, i think the focus should be less about "big" or "small" government, and more about having an effective government - one that can actually add value to our society without splurging with resources it does not really have. hate to be cynical, but don't know if i'll ever see one...

Capitalist
 

I don't think the case for Bernanke being as bad as Greenspan can yet be made. He got dealt a pretty awful hand, same as Obama, even though I disagree with much both figures' policies. Bottom line is that I wouldn't trust any of the Conservatives running for president save for Ron Paul to do a better job and I weep for whoever wants to be Fed Chief. Mario Draghi looks good right now because he turned the spigots on at a time Europe desperately needed it. Only time will tell if he becomes Europe's Greenspan, constantly putting a floor to equity prices.

 
Angelus99:
I think everyone here has a great point and I love the discourse.
This is an awesome post. Seriously. I'm feeling the love.

Now, back to bashing the nitwits we call our leaders.......

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
Angelus99:
I think everyone here has a great point and I love the discourse.
This is an awesome post. Seriously. I'm feeling the love.

Now, back to bashing the nitwits we call our leaders.......

my pleasure by the way
Beast
 

I would vote against Obama and for Romney, if just for one reason alone, the Obama military cuts. There are a million ways to tackle the budget deficit. Obama is cutting the military because of some other belief he has. Maybe he believes America comes off to aggressively and it would be better if we didn't have such a dominating military presence. I don't see how you can explain cutting military spending in the current environment.

"Sincerity is an overrated virtue" - Milton Friedman
 
OhYeah:
I don't see how you can explain cutting military spending in the current environment.

We are winding down two wars. We have 700 bases worldwide in 130 countries (are all of these really necessary?). The US accounts for 44% of military spending in the world. Military spending constitutes 56% of discretionary spend in the US budget. The US government has what some might call a "shit ton" of debt. This is how I would justify it.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Agree with winding down Iraq war maybe even both wars and I do think there are cheaper ways of projecting power other than maintaining 700 military bases, but the military cuts introduced will mean less troops and it will make it impossible for the U.S. to fight two ground wars at the same time if we needed to. We must fix the deficit. Military cuts are but just one way of doing it and Obama chose to cut the military budget because he doesn't recognize its importance IMO.

"Sincerity is an overrated virtue" - Milton Friedman
 
OhYeah:
Agree with winding down Iraq war maybe even both wars and I do think there are cheaper ways of projecting power other than maintaining 700 military bases, but the military cuts introduced will mean less troops and it will make it impossible for the U.S. to fight two ground wars at the same time if we needed to. We must fix the deficit. Military cuts are but just one way of doing it and Obama chose to cut the military budget because he doesn't recognize its importance IMO.

Obama hasn't cut the military budget (it has been rising, actually). He has simply proposed cuts. Also you make it sound like Obama thinks the military is the only way to close the budget deficit, which simply isn't true. Just ask ANT about tax hikes (or tax cut expirations, as I like to call them) on the rich.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 
duffmt6:
OhYeah:
Agree with winding down Iraq war maybe even both wars and I do think there are cheaper ways of projecting power other than maintaining 700 military bases, but the military cuts introduced will mean less troops and it will make it impossible for the U.S. to fight two ground wars at the same time if we needed to. We must fix the deficit. Military cuts are but just one way of doing it and Obama chose to cut the military budget because he doesn't recognize its importance IMO.

Obama hasn't cut the military budget (it has been rising, actually). He has simply proposed cuts. Also you make it sound like Obama thinks the military is the only way to close the budget deficit, which simply isn't true. Just ask ANT about tax hikes (or tax cut expirations, as I like to call them) on the rich.

The poor pay ZERO Federal taxes. In fact, 50% pay nothing or almost nothing in Federal taxes. To say only the rich received tax breaks is to make it seem as if everyone else, but the rich is paying for things.

This is not the case. The rich pay the majority of the tax revenue for the Fed government. Cutting taxes for the top income bracket is not fucking the poor since they pay nothing to begin with. It is simply cutting taxes on the people who pay the most in taxes.

Simple as that.

Military budgets need to be reduced, yes, but the military is only 20% of the Federal budget. The only thing that will help this country is a long term reduction in the size of the government. Cutting agencies, reducing staff and doing less. Real simple.

 

No, to the contrary out of all the possibilities available he chose military spending because I believe Obama wanted to cut military spending regardless of the fiscal situation.

"Sincerity is an overrated virtue" - Milton Friedman
 

Also, this idea that the government has a right to anything that someone earns is bullshit. The government is broke because it has decided to do countless things that it has no business doing. Government is for national defense, foreign affairs and maybe a couple other things. Very limited in nature. Everything else is relegated to the states.

If liberals feel so bad about the poor and helpless they should directly help them instead of legislating what THEY think is important. Government is not supposed to be someones mom and dad. The nanny state is bankrupting this nation, not military and defense.

 

If you think the Dept of Education and their $80B per year budget improves quality of life or any of the other wasteful government agencies, I don't know what to say.

The TSA is a perfect example of tax payer funds being wasted for massive government agencies. What about the Dept of Energy? It deals with civilian nuclear facilities. Roll that into he DoD. Dept of Urban Affairs? What is that bullshit.

Cut the budget, shut down agencies, lay off Federal workers. End Federal pensions, make everyone be on a 401k.

We pay taxes out the ass and it is wasted. Taxes should always go down, not up. What you earn you deserve.

 

Obviously their are many ways we can streamline the government that would make it a leaner and stronger. That is actually one of the plans that Obama recently introduced. What i overall mean is we have a system that can be improved but i dont think that our current president is to blame for all the misgivings. He was put in a difficult situation and i believe he did a great job. Reagan was one of the biggest believer in increasing taxes to help the overall economy, been taxed is not the issue, the way our tax dollars work and how effective it's used is more important

Beast
 

Obama has been a crappy President at best. He got elected on some fluff "hope and change" and has proven to be in over his head from the beginning. He probably isn't the historical worst President, but he will rank somewhere near Carter when it is all said and done.

If Romney doesn't win I can only pray Republicans take the Senate and just shove bill after bill down his throat and force him to come center right or be utterly ineffectual for 4 years. Frankly, if the Republicans can just nullify Obumbles for 4 years the economy will be better off.

 
ANT:
Obama has been a crappy President at best. He got elected on some fluff "hope and change" and has proven to be in over his head from the beginning. He probably isn't the historical worst President, but he will rank somewhere near Carter when it is all said and done.

If Romney doesn't win I can only pray Republicans take the Senate and just shove bill after bill down his throat and force him to come center right or be utterly ineffectual for 4 years. Frankly, if the Republicans can just nullify Obumbles for 4 years the economy will be better off.

Oh come on. The right ruled the USA for 8 years and ended in disaster. I'm no big Obama fan, but calling him a bad president is a joke. Oh, and he has ruled in the centre right.

Everyone keeps bashing the poor for not paying taxes, but that's just bollocks, everyone pays taxes one way or another. VAT, etc. Everyone pays taxes.

The reality is that the US military spending is about 50% not 20. THAT is where the waste is. The poor need to be made to pay something, even if it's 1 or 2%. And it makes no sense for the rich to pay 15% while the middle class bears the entire burden. Companies shouldn't get tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas, and massive profitable oil firms shouldn't get a tax cut.

And again - Obama has been a centre-right president.

But Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly, Rhaegar fought bravely. And Rhaegar died.
 
Anomanderis:
ANT:
Obama has been a crappy President at best. He got elected on some fluff "hope and change" and has proven to be in over his head from the beginning. He probably isn't the historical worst President, but he will rank somewhere near Carter when it is all said and done.

If Romney doesn't win I can only pray Republicans take the Senate and just shove bill after bill down his throat and force him to come center right or be utterly ineffectual for 4 years. Frankly, if the Republicans can just nullify Obumbles for 4 years the economy will be better off.

Oh come on. The right ruled the USA for 8 years and ended in disaster. I'm no big Obama fan, but calling him a bad president is a joke. Oh, and he has ruled in the centre right.

Everyone keeps bashing the poor for not paying taxes, but that's just bollocks, everyone pays taxes one way or another. VAT, etc. Everyone pays taxes.

The reality is that the US military spending is about 50% not 20. THAT is where the waste is. The poor need to be made to pay something, even if it's 1 or 2%. And it makes no sense for the rich to pay 15% while the middle class bears the entire burden. Companies shouldn't get tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas, and massive profitable oil firms shouldn't get a tax cut.

And again - Obama has been a centre-right president.

People don't care what the truth is. I agree with most of what you're saying, and I don't even bother talking about politics with most people anymore: they're just not interested in WHAT IS and are obsessed with what they THINK SHOULD BE. It's gone from choosing the best person for the job to being like some sort of sad religion.
Get busy living
 
Anomanderis:
ANT:
Obama has been a crappy President at best. He got elected on some fluff "hope and change" and has proven to be in over his head from the beginning. He probably isn't the historical worst President, but he will rank somewhere near Carter when it is all said and done.

If Romney doesn't win I can only pray Republicans take the Senate and just shove bill after bill down his throat and force him to come center right or be utterly ineffectual for 4 years. Frankly, if the Republicans can just nullify Obumbles for 4 years the economy will be better off.

Oh come on. The right ruled the USA for 8 years and ended in disaster. I'm no big Obama fan, but calling him a bad president is a joke. Oh, and he has ruled in the centre right.

Everyone keeps bashing the poor for not paying taxes, but that's just bollocks, everyone pays taxes one way or another. VAT, etc. Everyone pays taxes.

The reality is that the US military spending is about 50% not 20. THAT is where the waste is. The poor need to be made to pay something, even if it's 1 or 2%. And it makes no sense for the rich to pay 15% while the middle class bears the entire burden. Companies shouldn't get tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas, and massive profitable oil firms shouldn't get a tax cut.

And again - Obama has been a centre-right president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget

DoD, including overseas contingency expenses is ~20% of the budget. Considering that national defense is one of the main reasons you would form a Federal government, I completely support this.

No one is faulting the poor for paying no FEDERAL TAXES. I am saying they should stop demanding other people pay more when they pay ZERO. Stop bringing in sales tax and other taxes in a conversation about the Federal budget.

The rich pay the majority of tax receipts. They shoulder the burden. I am not crying for them, but I am sick and tired of this take from them because we can mentality.

You balance the budget by cutting defense spending some, but by reducing the size of government. The Dept of Education is getting $95 billion this upcoming year. Was $80 last year. It does NOTHING. That is a trillion dollars in 10 years.

Shut the whole thing down.

Dept of Agriculture - $150 billion. 1.5 trillion in 10 years. For what. Halve it or shut it down.

Medicare/Caid - almost a trillion a year. Halve it. Make it more efficient.

Eliminate the tax credit for children. Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction ($131 Billion a year). Eliminate all these damn credits.

Bang. Budget balances, deficits reduced, government withdrawing and not messing with our lives.

It will never happen because losers in this nation outweigh those who contribute and pay. The load keeps increasing for poor Atlas. Until one day he shrugs and the takers and users can go fend for themselves.

 

FYI - Tax dollars do nothing but hurt the economy. Let those who earned them, keep them and allow citizens to spend and save as they want. Government distortion of the market is a harmful and needs to be reduced as much as possible.

Cut taxes, reduce the size of government and allow the economy to rebound on its own. Trying to minimize pain simply elongates it.

 

Anomanderis...in America we don't have a VAT, some states don't have an income tax or sales tax, and deductions due to income can make it so the por pay absolutely nothing in taxes. THe 50% number is in federal taxes. I am just pointing out the error, I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE ON WELFARE SHOULD PAY TAXES. What a joke that would be. It's putting money from one pocket to the other- probably losing some in the process.

I think we can cut some defense spending- and for the love of god get rid of no-bid contracts. Even if it doesn't save much (idk how much its worth) the principle that American citizens are ripping off the military on a daily basis is infuriating.

I agree the Dept. of Education should be shut down. Before 1979 it didn't exist and.....America had better education. Huh...wow.

Department of Energy...wtf does it even do?

Farm and oil subsidies...get rid of most of them or at least make there be a size cap.

Medicare and Medicaid need to go to a voucher systemIMHO combined with the ability to buy across state lines. This would drastically reduce the cost of health insurance to everyone, and would alllow people to get what they want rather than coverage for sex changes.

Th tax credit for children is obviously distortionary, but it would need to be phased out. I don't think that the mortgage deduction could be eliminated in the near future because of the depressed state of housing right now. It would destroy home prices. A few years ago it would have been good, and maybe when the market bounces back it will be good- but right now...no.

Foreign aid and military bases in non-important countries should be reduced. We're gonna give$2bn to Egypt after they kicked us (and their buddy Jimmy C.) out? GTFO.

There is so much waste, a general phasing out of the government's role in life over say 10-20 years would be amazing. Even crap like the NIH could be scaled back and made more efficient- sadly it's just not politically salient to do so.

Reality hits you hard, bro...
 
MMBinNC:
Anomanderis...in America we don't have a VAT, some states don't have an income tax or sales tax, and deductions due to income can make it so the por pay absolutely nothing in taxes. THe 50% number is in federal taxes. I am just pointing out the error, I DON'T THINK THAT PEOPLE ON WELFARE SHOULD PAY TAXES. What a joke that would be. It's putting money from one pocket to the other- probably losing some in the process.

I think we can cut some defense spending- and for the love of god get rid of no-bid contracts. Even if it doesn't save much (idk how much its worth) the principle that American citizens are ripping off the military on a daily basis is infuriating.

I agree the Dept. of Education should be shut down. Before 1979 it didn't exist and.....America had better education. Huh...wow.

Department of Energy...wtf does it even do?

Farm and oil subsidies...get rid of most of them or at least make there be a size cap.

Medicare and Medicaid need to go to a voucher systemIMHO combined with the ability to buy across state lines. This would drastically reduce the cost of health insurance to everyone, and would alllow people to get what they want rather than coverage for sex changes.

Th tax credit for children is obviously distortionary, but it would need to be phased out. I don't think that the mortgage deduction could be eliminated in the near future because of the depressed state of housing right now. It would destroy home prices. A few years ago it would have been good, and maybe when the market bounces back it will be good- but right now...no.

Foreign aid and military bases in non-important countries should be reduced. We're gonna give$2bn to Egypt after they kicked us (and their buddy Jimmy C.) out? GTFO.

There is so much waste, a general phasing out of the government's role in life over say 10-20 years would be amazing. Even crap like the NIH could be scaled back and made more efficient- sadly it's just not politically salient to do so.

While I don't agree with every point, that was pretty rational and well thought out.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

This post has had some of the most well thought out and concise points..... MMinNC made some great points that, while i dont agree with it all of them, reflects how i currently feel about the system and I just want to state one thing: Santorum...? really? This man is looking like the front runner? I at least respected Romney but Santorum??? What a joke!

Beast
 

I am so sick of Santorum. How is that clown shoe still in the race. At least Gingrich is angry and just slams Obama. Only good thing about Santorum is how much he pisses off the GLADD mafia.

We would need a benevolent dictator to fix this country, but the problem is so many people suck that you would be benevolent for about a minute and then you would just start cracking skulls. This is just the natural progression in a Democracy though. People get together and elect people who will give them shit. Once people get something they never want to give it back.

It is all of our civic and moral duty to a) make as much money as possible and b) pay as little in taxes as possible. The sooner this house of cards collapses the sooner we can get entitlements and the size of the government and let the leaches taste the misery they have created.

 

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