Harvard 2+2 chances? Should I apply?
Hey everyone,
I've been lurking a bit in this forum after stumbling upon Harvard's 2+2 program. I've read a lot of the threads that deal with the topic, and believe I have a pretty good hold on what HBS is looking for - motivated leaders, non-business majors, etc. I was wondering if those more familiar with the program could give me some advice about the application process, my chances, as well as any additional comments.
My info:
Rising Senior at a top 25 public university
Majors: Philosophy-Politics, Urban Studies (Policy and Administration concentration)
Minor: History
GPA: 3.58 (3.8 since sophomore year - very strong upward trend/challenging course load including graduate classes and directed studies)
I have also worked two jobs simultaneously to put myself through school, one for the university and the other at a local cafe. I was recently promoted to a management position for the university job.
I have been very involved in the campus radio station (ranked top 10 by MTV - not US&WR, but still...), participating as a 4 year music and news DJ, as well as having held a paid Engineering Director position during my sophomore year. I was recently hired as Station Manager for the coming year, a position that is paid and entails hiring and managing 10 directors to work day-to-day at a fully student run station with a fairly large operating budget and about 50 staff members/DJs.
Additionally, I am completing a "B.Phil" thesis through my school's honors college with an advisor. I should have stellar LORs, one coming from my former manager at the university job who oversaw my work for the 2 years before I was promoted to the management position, and the other from a professor. I have also done some writing for a student-founded non-profit that comments on campus and local news. I have also attended my university's retreat for its top 25 student leaders for the past two years. Lastly, I am currently participating in an internship with a public sector consulting firm working with grant writing and strategy.
I was originally set on the law school route, but this seems like a really interesting alternative. I am trying to decide if it is worth eating, sleeping, and breathing GRE studying for the next 9 weeks to take the GRE in time to make the October round application deadline. My main concern is that my GPA isn't as high as it could be. Part of me thinks that I could apply for the January round to give myself a little GPA boost with next semester, but I dont know if this is necessarily worth it.
Let me know what you guys think!
How should I structure my experiences for Harvard 2+2 (Originally Posted: 05/17/2013)
Hi,
I'm a Stanford junior graduating in 4 years with a Econ Major (3.8), Management Masters (3.9?) and Computer Science Masters. I have a lvl 1 CFA and a close to perfect GRE score.
My past experience includes Founding 2 startups (one still running with 50 people) MBB Morgan Stanley IBD
Potential structures
Tech focused. Talk about how I enjoy working in tech and startups, want to really get my coding skills up post college, but at the same time I want to transition to management down the road and would love to attend HBS to make that transition
Business focused. Talk about experience at MBB, MS
My basic understanding is 2+2 is more interested in entrepreneurship than the mainline finance/consulting "track." I believe that they have recently softened somewhat in this regard, but to my knowledge it is still not their priority.
All of this said, given your experience, stats, and credentials, I think you might seriously consider working with a professional admissions consultant. At the very least, look beyond WSO -- maybe your school's career services or graduate school advising office(s).
agreed. You are a serious candidate and need to hire a consultant. If you cant afford it im sure Stanfords career services are good enough.
So...uh...do you want to invest in real estate? need some office space?
coughcough
So, I'm a bit confused as to your academic standing. Are you saying that, after your 4 years in college, you will graduate with your Econ major, a CS Masters, and a Management Masters? Or that in 4 years you will have all of those degrees? Either way, that shouldn't matter, as your startups should qualify for the 2-3 years of work experience that 2+2 requires. You seem to be a serious candidate for the program, have you thought about applying to Stanford's deferred program as well?
@SourPatchKid Stanford has a coterminal program that lets you do a masters program with your undergrad. I transferred in a bunch of units from high school so I'm doing 2 masters and an undergrad in 4 years :)
@Betsy Thanks! I did look into it but you must work for a Startup over summer. I thought it was safer to go with MS IBD than a startup
troll...who the hell says "I have a level 1 CFA" ??
hey when you are a junior in a LAC with no finance program thats the closest you can get haha
I would also advise you to talk to Sandy Kreisberg or Betsy, you are a serious candidate I think.
Is Harvard 2+2 a rolling admissions process? I know of a few people who received admission offers 1-2 days ago.
The summer round deadline isn't until July, with notifications in early September.
EDIT: I'm sorry, I was mistaken. The 3rd round from last year has notifications on May 15th. OP will be applying for next year.
Will you explain this? In four years, you passed L1 of the CFA [which you phrased very suspicious and shittily], will have completed two masters programs a top university, gotten a 3.8 or above in all, founded two startups, and interned at both MS and MBB?
I am under the impression you need to be in your final year of college to sit for the cfa.
+1
I'm calling crap on this. A start-up with 50 people is a multi-million dollar venture, likely leading to valuations of $20m+. It would be an outstanding accomplishment, but also an enormous consumption of time - no way that you'd even consider the 2+2 program, an internship at MBB or at MS (or even have the time, for that matter). Combine that with the CFA weirdness already listed above, and this has "troll" written all over it.
This
Though it does sound a bit "trollish", there are people out there who despite having achieved great accomplishments and successes realize they don't know everything are still humble enough to be teachable. It's an admirable quality. What the truth is here remains to be seen but remaining humble and willing are traits to be admired.
Look, I agree, but this just doesn't add up. In four years, one person accomplished:
This thread reminds me that I need to make a post asking WSOers whether or not I should get penis reduction surgery.
I've been meaning to ask whether or not I should donate $5bn of my wealth to charity.
LOL!
Whoa whoa guys I'm just asking for advice and I wake up with so much hating.
Lets sort this out once and for all and get back to advice giving please. Drop me a pm if you think I am trolling and want some proof. Just verify my story after.
Happy weekend!
Anyone, even those who've failed the CFA exams, knows that no one "has a CFA" or even a "CFA Level 1." If you think that's correct, with respect to a charter, you just botched the Ethics section which means you probably failed. Also, there is no way you could even SIT for the exam unless you were a senior and December of your senior year is the earliest you can even go after your charter.
It's hard to give you advice when you are so clearly full of crap.
There are ways to take it earlier. I took L1 in my Junior year. It is possible but you have to jump through some hoops.
Why are you going to business school if you run a startup with 50 employees.?
well, if you guys want proof
http://imgur.com/qxUvdtW
anyway, it would be helpful if you guys spent more time giving me b-school advise rather than questioning my credentials
I remember someone ran a tutoring service startup at my school which was basically a tutor matchmaker website with shitty web programming. Technically the guy hired 50 tutors part-time... I think this dude just knows how to hit the right points to reflect preftige.
Plus econ is an easy major if you are quantitative. Also, being quantitative means he can pick up CS quickly and many schools offer a CS masters these days for late bloomers.
And getting into MBB or MS is tough but if someone were to do it, stanford is the place to be.
Just imagine a smart quantitative kid who could've majored in high energy physics but took the "easier" route with an econ degree
I can vouch! Consider my trolling suspicions misguided. Very accomplished background, indeed.
What is Harvard 2+2?
dude sick background, especially including the startups.
Honestly don't think you'll have any trouble getting into HBS 2+2, but focus on your engineering and startup experience and emphasize that you want to learn more about corporate strategy/business in general. You should ask a business school consultant though.
This guy seems too successful for business school (seriously).
UNC Senior: Chances of acceptance into Harvard 2+2? (Originally Posted: 07/10/2013)
I'm going to be a senior at UNC Chapel Hill in the fall. I'm finishing my double major in econ and business. I'm signed up to take the GMAT in September, and I want to get some idea of how well I need to do. I don't want to go straight into the MBA, so I'm taking it solely for the 2+2 program (at least for now -- I know the scores are good for 5 years).
If anyone has experience in admissions, especially with regard to Harvard's 2+2 program, I'd appreciate your input.
Here's a quick rundown of my resume: 3.9+ GPA overall 4 internships Basic knowledge of C#, Matlab, SQL.
So my question is: what score do I need on the GMAT to have a good shot (65%+) at acceptance into the 2+2 program?
Well the range for this year's class is 660-790. Your GPA is higher than the average admitted students'. I'm no expert, but you're looking good, so just get something in that range-obviously the higher the better.
I thought 2+2 was more geared towards STEM majors? Could be wrong though
Yep, more than 60% of admitted students are stem majors.
Here are the stats from the most recently admitted class:
STEM 64% ECONOMICS/BUSINESS 19% HUMANITIES/SOCIAL SCIENCES 17% UNDERGRADUATE INSTITUTIONS REPRESENTED 48
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/admission-requirements/Pages/class-of…
That 19% business number has increased since the program started. I think originally, yes, it was more geared toward STEM/Humanities/other non-business majors.
They are looking for A) STEM majors B) non-profit, other people who wouldn't get a MBA anyway C) female applications, minorities
So it's really more about what you have to offer in any of these categories rather than your profile. While your profile is good (stats-wise you can get in during regular admission), it might not be 2+2 material
Based on several people I know that have gotten in, your success will depend on 2 things given your specific background:
1) GMAT - 700+ (High 600s will be sufficient with your GPA but to maximize chances you really want 700+).
2) Your plans for the next two years and the story behind it.
From what I've seen, people with a business background only get in if they have a prestigious job lined up (IB / PE) or if they are attempting a start up (a perfect situation for the 2+2 program in HBS' eyes).
No matter what your story is, I would apply for the 2+2. Couldn't hurt right?
Thanks for the input. It sounds like I really need to come up with a good story, and "I want to be a businessman" is not the story they're looking for.
@AnalyzeThat: would consulting also be considered a prestigious job?
Yes, consulting is a prestigious job (depending on the company). However, again, they are not looking for this job/career. They want to attract different people. I know that applying can't hurt, but you will be a more competitive candidate/they will be looking for you in two/three/four years and you will have a lot higher chance then
Consulting absolutely is a prestigious job. Unfortunately the only people I've seen get into the 2+2 that got offers from MBB are either STEM or are HYPS undergrads. While consulting at MBB would likely hurt your chances for the 2+2 program, it will practically guarantee acceptance to an MBA business schools ">M7 for regular admission. If I were you, I would go for a job that you are passionate about, apply to the 2+2 / silver scholars / deferred GSB, and realize that your chances are low because those programs are looking for STEM / targets / entrepreneurs. If you are not one of those, keep your head up if you get denied and reapply during regular admission.
Another piece of advice: do not tailor your career to get into b school. Apply for b school because your career has naturally taken you there.
Take your name off your profile. You divulged far too much personal information about yourself as it is, and to top it off, you used your legal name when you registered.
I changed my username. Can I ask why it's bad to share what is essentially just my resume?
Also:
AVG GPA: 3.78 AVG GMAT: 734
harvard 2+2 exclusively for undergrads? (Originally Posted: 09/10/2012)
hi,
i was wondering if i am eligible for the harvard 2+2 program?
I am 23 and hold a bachelor's degree (3 years) from a European university and I am doing a master's degree (2 years) at exactly the same institution at the moment. I will graduate from my university in July 2013. (which is between October 1, 2012 and September 30, 2013 as required)
is this seen as a "joint bachelor/graduate degree program" that would be eligible for 2+2 according to the hbs website (http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/2+2) ?
thanks
I highly doubt that your program is eligible, but you're unlikely to get a definitive answer at WSO. You should contact HBS admissions directly.
I believe the 2+2 program is for undergrads only because you have to apply your senior year of college. Although they recently opened up the program to business majors, it is still geared more towards STEM majors also.
How intent are they are focusing on STEM majors? Would it even be considered a viable option for someone from from an average business school w/ median gmat/gpa?
Short answer is yes, they do consider traditional applicants in 2+2.
But if your GPA and GMAT are both median, you'll probably need a very compelling story and top-notch essays and recommendations to be a competitive applicant.
Application Advice for Harvard 2+2 (Originally Posted: 11/30/2013)
AFKAIK
holy shit
I think you're fine, lol.
I would actually recommend maybe going straight into your career.
Wow that's an impressive track record! Are you going to BSchool because you genuinely want to learn, or because you feel like you NEED to in order to make the transition?
I'm with ManyHenny on this one, I think you'd have no problem going straight into IB/Consulting/AM given your credentials!
thanks for the advice. i've been feeling like i need to get into bschool -- even in generalist internships at consulting firms my background has resulted in me getting assigned to more quantitative/model maintenance type projects which is what i'm not as interested in despite being good at. looking at bschool as a means to round out the skill set and reorient my focus toward less math heavy roles
Fair enough, Best of luck in pursuing that objective, although you probably won't need it!
bump. thanks
Can you do 2+2 with graduate work and a UG in finance?
Yes
If you are in your final year of study, you are eligible to apply in the current application cycle. This timing applies to: •Candidates from bachelor degree programs •Candidates from joint bachelor/graduate degree programs •Candidates from graduate degree programs who have not held a full-time work position. To be eligible for the 2+2 program, candidates need to have gone directly from undergraduate to graduate school.
To be considered for admission to the 2+2 Program Class of 2018 (entering Fall 2016), you must be graduating from your program between October 1, 2013 and September 30, 2014.
probably not a conventional non-business type background but giving it a shot anyway. hoping the non-business UG helps
Fucking ridiculous profile. You should be proud of your achievements.
Harvard MBA 2+2 Program (Originally Posted: 02/06/2009)
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/2+2/ This is the 2nd year of this new program
It's a tough program to get into. I don't believe economics/finance/business majors are encouraged to apply from what I could infer from the FAQ.
Finance/business majors are not. Economics regarded as Liberal Arts major.
As the previous posters have mentioned, this program is geared towards those with non-business backgrounds. But that doesn't mean it hurts to apply anyway.
doesn't HBS look poorly on reapplicants? So if you doubt you'd get in but might like to go in the future it could hurt to apply now.
I think it's also geared towards minorities
Does Harvard have superior recruiting relative to wharton, stanford, tuck, columbia, kellog and chicago?
I think Harvard, Wharton and Stanford are comparable, with the rest of the schools you listed a tier below.
H/W/S are generally considered the top tier, with the others a tad below. Some might argue HBS is tops, but that is not really an argument worth having. If you're interested in lists, I'm sure you can find discussions in the archives, but this thread was meant to address a specific HBS program. All of those you mentioned are top tier schools and graduates of any will have opportunities, although I do hear Jefferies refuses to consider HBS students. Rough luck dipset ;p
Thats fine im applying for the finance program at princeton. Wharton will be my number one in the future for an MBA. Regarding Jefferies I doubt they would attract harvard graduates they target state schools by the way.
*can you imagine state school kids going to top Ivys to recruit.....what a site
are there rankings or lists of the top MsC programs similar to princeton's?
I'm presuming you mean MsC Finance; you've got a decent number of bananas, so I assume you've seen this, but it is 4 threads below this one so maybe you overlooked it:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/am-i-good-to-go-for-a-msf
There are a ton of programs but they are pretty selective and a good number of them are financial engineering programs that require some very good math skills in linear algebra, probability and calculus. Good programming skills help to. I picked up a double major in math just so as to be competitive for one of these programs and for hedge funds etc.
they are definitely more interested in those that have non traditional bschool backgrounds. that is why they have a hand in helping you gain experience.
retake GRE for harvard 2+2 program? (Originally Posted: 12/22/2011)
Should I retake the GRE for the 2+2 program? I go to a top engineering school and have very good grades.
Math 168 (96%) Verbal 158 (79%) AW 5.5 (96%)
Thanks
Wait a minute, aren't you supposed to take the GMAT for 2+2? This is HBS you're talking about, right?
Harvard now accepts either the GMAT or GRE with your application
No, you're GRE is good enough. It will not be the deciding factor for 2+2. Most applicants will have great grades and excellent GRE/GMAT. Demonstrating your leadership potential in the essays and hopefully vis-a-vis your recommendations will be what sets you apart.
Quantitative Reasoning - 170 Verbal Reasoning - 159 Analytical Writing - 4.5
^is this good enough for 2+2?
Take a look at the statistics of the most recent admits.
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-statistics/2+2/
I suppose my only concern was my low verbal score. I looked at a score conversion chart and 158 maps to about 570 or 580. 570 is at the bottom of their admitted range, so I'm worried its going to hurt me, since I'd imagine anyone admitted with lower scores have some other compelling factors.
Harvard 2+2: advice on concentration for last year of school (Originally Posted: 06/11/2012)
Hey everyone.
First, I know there are lots of posts with general advice on this but I am looking for specific advice if possible.
Issue: Do I double major in Finance/ Real Estate w/ Econ minor and potentially lower GPA
or major in Finance with a certification in entrepreneurship (does not appear on transcript, it is a concentration that you take along side your BComm) w/ Econ minor.
I am entering my final year in September and feel I may be too "finance oriented" for the program
Background: -Female (hate to say it but I've read on here that it helps) -Top 5% of finance concentration, not sure about entire BComm class, at least top -10% of entire university based on 1st years GPA, top 15% based on cumulative -"Canadian Ivy League School" (I know there is no such thing but it is what banks out here consider us) -Executive of a few large organizations on campus including a large business competition/conference (all VP finance though, could be an issue) Rotational program (research, S&T, DCM etc) intern at RBC, does NOT include Ibanking -Regular volunteer at homeless shelter -Provincial champ, trainer and judge for horseback riding (yes, it is a sport) -Scoring in 98th percentile in verbal for GMAT w/o studying, quant GMAT needs improvement.
Any help would be appreciated!
Look, at the end of the day, "Canadian Ivy" means you're a public school kid like me. (Illinois)
2+2 tends to be oriented towards entrepreneurs and folks with majors outside finance/business. It also tends to believe that the elite schools are in the US Northeast.
So your strength is not that you go to an "elite" Canadian school. It's that you're a very smart lady from a public school who understands how the real world works; you aren't this Rapunzel/princess stuck in some Ivory Tower at Dartmouth who needs HBS to come save her. You're the Yeoman farmer going into battle with her crossbow, defending her tiny 20 acre field, and you could kick Rapunzel's butt in a fight.
Be very careful with the horseback riding. If you grew up on a farm with lots of spare hay and room for horses, that's one thing. If you have rich parents, I would probably just leave it off. Upper-class hobbies ruin this otherwise beautiful picture of a middle-class, middle-america, overlooked by the Ivies for undergrad, overachiever. There will be professors and admissions staff from those kinds of backgrounds (CC Elizabeth Warren) who will be pulling for you if they see that.
HBS is going to be looking for initiative and an entrepreneurial mentality for the 2+2 program. This is goin to be a steep uphill battle, made steeper by your decision to major in business. Are you sure you don't just want to go into industry for 3-4 years and then do HBS as a regular applicant? I guess an application doesn't hurt, but I see your best chances of getting in being through the corporate route.
Give it a shot; just try to bear in mind that rejection doesn't mean rejection. It just means they're largely focused on STEM majors for the program, IIRC.
Thanks for the advice and the story.
"Be very careful with the horseback riding. If you grew up on a farm with lots of spare hay and room for horses, that's one thing. If you have rich parents, I would probably just leave it off. Upper-class hobbies ruin this otherwise beautiful picture of a middle-class, middle-america, overlooked by the Ivies for undergrad, overachiever."
Hmmm, my whole resume points to that. Never applied for any scholarships (really stupid on my part), in a sorority (which I pay for), WASP family. I think law school would be easier for me than 2+2 haha.
What I am going to try to play up is the hard working thing: I rehabbed my horse from a broken leg (while I had a broken arm) to win the series. Sob story but it was a lot of determination, especially while maintaining 2 part time jobs, exec positions, volunteering and maintaining an A average. I started cleaning barns at 11 to pay for riding lessons; that sort of thing.
I'll probably choose the entrepreneurship option based on your advice to show that I am not all about finance.
My school isnt too off target, my friend just accepted Stanford 2+2 out of my same BComm program with just a simple major in finance and no real extra curricular activities other than being a frat boy. I know of a few others from each year that went to Harvard bschool and Harvard law (both from my sorority) so I do not think it is too off base. I never applied to Ivies for undergrad because of my riding (another stupid on my part) so I have no idea what I look like compared to them.
Oh well, here's hoping!
I don't think commerce degree will help you with havard 2+2. Internships in finance might affect in a bad way as well. I thought it was created for engineers and science majors interested in developing their own business/start ups.
Then maybe it's worth it. A big question the admissions committee will be confronting is how does the girl who has everything- even a "pony"- wind up at a state school? This is going to be a significant complication to your application that you will need to address.
You don't see everything on the surface. Again, this tends to be the case at state schools. Folks at Illinois were in honors programs, had perfect SAT scores, TA'd 400-level classes as undergrads; won national engineering competitions; they didn't tell their friends that stuff.I think you DO have a shot at Harvard Law if that's what you want to do. HBS 2+2 tends to look for STEM kids, though. There's a lot fewer people trying to rush through the STEM door than there are in business, so the irony is that your undergrad Finance degree hurts you here- for now.
Here is what you need:
1.) Something truly amazing. Horseback riding may be that for you. BUT (see three below) 2.) Something entrepreneurial and of Harvard admit caliber. 3.) A consistent plotline as this dark horse candidate. You need folks on the HBS adcom saying "OOOPS!!! How'd our undergrad committee miss that three years ago?" This works for a farm kid from western Ontario or a middle-class kid. But horseback riding risks all of that. It makes you look rich and sophisticated. Definitely play up the work in the stables, especially if that is what ultimately paid for that horse.
You do have a shot at this; I wish you the best of luck at crossing the minefield. That said, if they do reject you, the reason will be that they're looking for entrepreneurial STEM majors right now and you'll have a better shot as a traditional admit in three years.
Focus on landing an FT job.
Study for the CFA.
Work hard.
LOL. Talk about over-thinking it.
Anyways, OP, your GPA will be vital. Both the HBS 2+2 admits this year from my previous school (a Mid-Ivy) were 3.9+ superstars. One of them just graduated Val of the 2012 Class.
PS: Illini, Canada doesn't work the same way as the US. Queen's is very much known as the 'rich kids school'. And I say that as a Yalie.
lol how does a certificate in entrepreneurship, which is the most ridiculous thing ever, even matter after all that superhero stuff you did. you saved a horse with a broken leg while you had a broken arm? you are aka a disney movie i mean come on that shit is pretty touching
Queen's is a state school. Lower tuition, quality (not over-the-top) academics. Pragmatically, if you're middle-class with a larger EFC than your family's disposable income, it makes sense to go to Queen's and save $30K in tuition over an Ivy.
Agree that the horse story is Disney-worthy if you come off like an underdog. That's what gives you a shot here.
The problem is that you're from the equivalent of a Big Ten state school and it's a showhorse story, not a dog story or a soccer story or a farm story. HBS will want to see that you're not some girl who lives in a 5000 square foot red brick house in Westchester County where Mommy and Daddy serve dinner on fine china and decided to buy her a horsey for her 12th birthday (and bought her a Porsche when she turned 16). In your essay, you need to subtly and casually bring up information that shatters that frame of reference in addition to telling an underdog story about a horse.
Ok. NONE of this stuff matters for 2+2, let alone any grad school application.
Choice of major is largely irrelevant in your case, OP. Just try to get in the 3.9+ range.
What the..?! Illini, man, what have you been taking? :p :p lol
By the way, I am pretty sure the original poster attends McGill - not Queens.
Thanks guys for all your advice. On a side note, how does a "come from behind story" play out for b-school?
I had a sub 60% average in public high school (stay with me here) because I simply didnt care. Just worked and rode horses and thats it. I had to go to college first and work my butt off. My current bschool laughed at me so I joined the school as an arts student in Econ and worked my butt off again and finished the year on top of the class. By then I had enough classes that the bschool did not look at my high school marks and probably has no idea that they have a student with this sort of background finishing with grades 15% above the east coast private school kids.
I want to say this is pretty risky, but maybe: shows I am determined? Had to work way harder than most? I don't know?
Schools not Queens, its Sauder. Adding a West vs East hurdle to things but it is harder to get into than everything else in Canada except Ivey.
Ah, apologies then. The "Canadian Ivy" with a good BComm program seemed to point to Queen's. But, UBC is nice too. That second question you'll have to pose to one of the admissions consultants on this forum. Try Alex (MBAapply).
With respect to your strategy, I would advise against it as it is high-risk high-reward and will probably be perceived negatively. Essentially, your story isn't really a "come-from-behind-story" but more of a "come-from-behind-after-I-slacked-off-throughout-high-school-and-needed-to-play-catch-up-story." If you had to come back from behind because of circumstances out of your control (i.e. injury / disenfranchised background / coming from a third world country) or due to tragedy (i.e. family death), your story would be inspiring and meaningful. But what got you behind in the first place is, as you put it, your slacking off. Thus, the story also carries a negative connotation and the upside will be discounted (since the implication is that didn't demonstrate enough maturity when you are younger).
^^^ Same with the Midwest. Illinois is a top 40 school with similar academics. We have as many Nobel Prizes as you guys have, we're a state school, we have a globally recognized top-ten engineering program; McGill/Queens/Ivy may attract a few more brilliant students, but I don't think that materially changes things. I think the comparison- that she is from a public Ivy on the order of UVA, Michigan, Wisconsin, or Illinois works a lot better than a private school.
RBC or BMO Harris Nesbitt would be a completely different argument, but HBS is a US-based institution. This is a US-centric story and the top Canadian schools, rightly or wrongly, are seen to lie in a range between Wisconsin and UC Berkeley here. As a UIUC engineer, I can empathize. Back home, we look at silly things like the US News degree rankings rather than East Coast opinions to judge schools, and I'm sure you guys place well there, too.
^^^ I completely agree with that.
If you are middle class or have frugal parents, you have a very good reason to be at Berkeley or UT Austin or a state school and there are a lot of brilliant people at these schools.
If you drive a BMW or if you own an expensive aircraft or if you collect 19th century American art or if you have a showhorse, the presumption will be that you're not going to a state school to save on tuition, though. So now the question is why was this the best opportunity afforded to you. So you need to be careful about expensive hobbies, especially if you're coming from a state school.
No, Karen. I don't think that's what we're saying. Don't leave it off your application. You can put it on there, and it may very well be the essay that gets you in, but you have to frame it right. Do a lot of talking about cleaning up stables for minimum wage and how that horse was your life for several years.
It's a high risk strategy, but it could get you in. This is a place where $500 for advice from a good admissions consultant is clearly worth it. Your odds are 10% without the horse; they're more like 40-50% if the horse story comes out and gets read the right way and 0% if they read it wrong.
If you want to gamble on that horse, Alex Chu or Sandy Kreisberg will be able to tell you with a lot more certainty how that essay will go down with the admissions committee. Us 20-somethings are just smart enough to realize this is going to be a difficult essay to write correctly. It's probably also wise to devote some writing space to cleaning manure and bailing hay for minimum wage to pay for that horse. Princesses, Westchester Girls, and Rapunzels would break a nail and quit on their first day, and that's not you.
you had 60 percent in HS and got into UBC econ? and later Sauder? Wow. Sauder these days is one of the hardest business schools to get into in Canada (not like the U.S people are going to care though). I'm impressed by your determination.
.
i think what everybody is trying to say, with these long and thoughtful messages, is ops def a cutie and nobody likes a girl who cared about marks in high school anyway
gets popcorn
I've never seen Illiniprogrammer get trolled on so hard. I feel bad for the man. Honestly, I had a friend who got into the Harvard 2+2 program. She co-founded (with like 10 other people...) a school for impoverished kids in Bangladesh. She had a 3.7 ish, but it was an upward trend. I think she got exactly a 690 on her GMAT and she majored in south asian studies and women's studies.
Those are the types of students HBS 2+2 aims to get. Not some girl who majors in finance and did a business internship. I'm not sure if the OP is trolling, but honestly, didn't you read the the section where they describe who they're looking for? I'm not trying to be mean. I wish you the best, and I hope you get in and come onto this thread to prove how much of an idiot I was. All I am saying is that with your finance major and business internships, you will have to describe your story at a very specific angle.
*
Hey everyone,
Just to bring it home, no one cares if I choose entrepreneurship or real estate with my finance major so I'll just stick with plain vanilla Econ minor and keep getting 90s. I'll be fine with the horse story. Everyone knows a real rich girl would have a back up horse or two and therefore no need to rehab her broken one; the admissions committee will obviously see how deserving I am.
Jokes aside, thanks everyone for the advice. I'll keep you posted.
Hey everyone,
Just to bring it home, no one cares if I choose entrepreneurship or real estate with my finance major so I'll just stick with plain vanilla Econ minor and keep getting 90s. I'll be fine with the horse story. Everyone knows a real rich girl would have a back up horse or two and therefore no need to rehab her broken one; the admissions committee will obviously see how deserving I am.
Jokes aside, thanks everyone for the advice. I'll keep you posted.
Just found this thread and want to encourage you to stick with this plan. Admissions folks, whether they are looking at 2+2 or the regular process, really like an interesting transcript. (Once they see that you got A's in calculus and statistics or hard-science) I don't mean wacky, but they want you to have used your time in university in a way that is both forward-looking and intellectually curious. Think of the physics major who also takes classical Greek poetry.
But since you are getting a BCom, looking at the electives online, you might want to take Creativity and Innovation, pr Critical Thinking: Values but then do something that doesn't have anything to do with finance, like Air Transportation or Logistics.
HBS is incredibly diverse, but always likes to remind people that it's a school. Even a hundred years ago when I went, I found the student body shockingly creative. It was intimidating.
Betsy
Did you end up applying?
I'll be honest and say that your chances are probably pretty low. I applied in the summer round and got dinged with a 770 GMAT and 4.0 GPA in engineering from a state school.
What were your ECs like? Any work/internships? And why did you want to go to 2+2?
Everyone I know who is in the 2+2 had some internship/co-op work, great extras in terms of leadership and community involvement, and a feel-good story about wanting to get an MBA (i.e. social change and things along those lines).
To the person who posted previously, a finance oriented individual from a non-HYP without amazing grades and extras is going to have a hard time, it just doesn't make sense for them to admit you when they know you will apply again later.
HBS 2+2 Help (Originally Posted: 12/29/2014)
First time poster long time reader. I have went through many posts on this topic and could not find any concise information on admittance into the program. I am trying to get into the HBS 2+2 program or any similar prestigious MBA deferred admittance programs, such as Stanford.
I recently finished my last junior year semester at Pace University and I am taking a break to work at Johnson & Johnson in their Spring Co-Op Program for 5 months. This is a 40 Hr a week Co-Op. I have a Finance Analyst Internship lined up with JP during the summer. After that I will start my senior year.
My plan is to study for the GMAT exam during the weekend for these next 5 months while working and take the exam in June. I have a 3.9 GPA and I was Vice President of the Investment Club at my school. These are my stats and I need advice. (Previous HBS 2+2 or deferred admissions admitted MBA students, feel free to tell your story)
Thanks
I'm not an expert, but most of the people posting about getting into HBS/GSB 2+2s are HYPS with top tier jobs lined up. I doubt there's any chance you could get into 2+2 from pace, but you could definitely attempt admission down the road if you land a great job, kill it, and wreck the GMAT.
If you keep doing well at Pace you'll have a shot someday, but it will be tough for 2+2. HBS 2+2 is generally targeted at STEM or liberal arts majors who are exceptional candidates, but would never traditionally consider B-School down the road. There are a few who make it from business backgrounds, but they are usually exceptional, which consists of graduating at the top of your class from a prestigious school combined with strong work experience. Even at that, many qualified candidates don't get it, because 2+2 isn't targeted at taking run of the mill undergrad business students.
If you really wanted to get into HBS you should have been a Chem major or something like that. Feel free to apply, but Pace University + J&J + Finance Analyst position won't compare to the handful of kids they let into 2+2 who are HYPS, + Goldman TMT + McKinsey...you get my drift. With that being said, if you get a great job out of Pace and kill it for a few years, you'll definitely have a shot.
I think you have a legit shot. Besides Pace University every other part of your application sounds like it's pretty legit. I know the HBS 2+2 program originally started as a way to grab engineers/wannabe lawyers but it has started letting in more and more traditional applicants. You really will need to ace the GMAT to allay any concerns about having gone to less academic university. Get a 770-780 and then PM me and I'd be happy to discuss strategy.
I don't think quitting is the best option. I'm getting that 770+ on the GMAT and I'm coming back to this thread after I get the acceptance letter.
Are you back?
The first part is true -- students are exceptional -- they are great academically, they have amazing extra-curriculars (including nearly Olympic level sports), and great internships at sought-after firms.
the "never traditionally consider b-school down the road" isn't part of the HBS mantra. They want to get great people early, and invest in them.
Agreed. I'm an 2+2 applicant from non HYPS, but I have heard from sources that 2+2 is for: 1. STEM or Liberal Arts folds who would otherwise attend top STEM/Medical/Law schools 2. A "future" ideal candidate that has little options now (HBS, GSB, Sloan Deferrals + Booth Wharton direct entry), but will have many more options later as regular candidate.
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