The Wharton vs. HBS trade-off
I am looking for any advice on this topic - please post any opinion/idea you have on this!
I am European, and, although I consider both excellent institutions, I am thinking to pick Wharton over Harvard for my MBA. This is my rationale:
- The case study method - there is a lot of material about the role that this method has in preparing HBS students, from letting them get into the CEOs' shoes, to preparing to a wide range of situations...
After having attended several classes and having lived the HBS atmosphere for almost a year, I can say that all it does actually is to push you express your opinion, no matter what are the circumstances or how much you know about the situation (in fact, you are graded on how much you speak in the classroom). I work for a consulting firm and I work quite oiften with HBS and Wharton alumni. Whenever you walk into a meeting you distinguish the HBS guy because he is always the first one to talk or to say anything.
Now, this is great, if you want to be a manager. Because it gives you visibility, in front of your colleagues and employees. In fact, in my opinion, also for this very reason HBS is more visible than Wharton: HBS students talk, a lot.
However, I want to be an entrepreneur. And I still need to become one. I can do it by replicating what other people before me (i.e. the case method) or by learning how to read through the data. And, in my opinion, this is where Wharton excels. Differently from HBS, the focus at Wharton is not on your visibility in the classroom but on your self-improvement. The amount and the quality of the material you go through at Wharton is by far superior to that at HBS. In fact, they estimated that Wharton students have to read three times the number of words a HBS students do by the end of their first year. This exercise pushes them to prioritize, organize and manage all the information available in the most efficient way (which, in the end, is what entrepreneurs do).
- The buildings - If there is one thing HBS has more than any other business school is its amazing campus and 33 super-efficient buildings (including a luxurious gym) for the exclusive use of its students.
Now, who has not seen the Stanford commencement speech by Steve Jobs (it's on youtube)? In my opinion, that video had a key message, which was expressed magnificently by the sentence: stay foolish, stay hungry. And I strongly believe in this idea. I share the view that to become successful you have to keep yourself hungry and motivated. Therefore, I wonder how could I keep myself motivated to work hard in such a luxurious and lavish atmosphere? I cannot find a way out of it, and this makes me concerned. Wharton on the other hand, did not spend its money on buildings but on academics (in fact it has the larger set of electives, disciplines, and professors of any business schools).
- The George W. factor - visibility has always a price. And I fear HBS at some point will have to pay for it.
I do not have any political aspirations, nor I nurture any particular ambition outside of my entrepreneurship goals. However, I can see how in Europe you can be easily associated with an image, a club, a company or a school. I saw how they have destroyed the career and the life of politicians and central bankers who previously worked at Goldman Sachs, just because some of their former employer's employees have been associated with the financial crisis and its consequences.
Now, I cannot foresee what will happen in 20 years, but if history can be of any guide, I am sure the George W. factor (Bush is an HBS alumnus) could be used by an opponent, political or not. Why would I want to run this risk? I know what they say at HBS about him: at least he got there... well, am just not so sure other HBS alumni will repeat his steps...
All in all, I think everything is cyclical - and that HBS is a bit at the end of its cycle (in fact for quite a long time, the Financial Times rankings have put Wharton above HBS) - but this is just my opinion. And I would appreciate any criticism to my reasoning
College student here so take this with a HUGE grain of salt:
Points 2 and 3 really don't matter: HBS has better buildings because it can afford them (bigger endowment), plus Wharton's main Huntsman building is very nice and lavish as well. George W Bush factor will not hurt its reputation as they also have Jamie Dimon, John Paulson, Hank Paulson, etc. as alumni. I'm sure Wharton has alum convicted for insider trading as well. Choosing HBS over Wharton for this would be like choosing JPM over Goldman Sachs because of its association with the financial crisis - you just don't do it
In terms of pure education I understand maybe choosing Wharton if you are set on going out on your own but on a resume HBS will stand out above Wharton - it's one of the biggest "brands" you can have on your resume, up there with McKinsey
Point 3 is ridiculous. First Bush was a President of the US after all. Second, you never know who will attend Wharton or Harvard in the future. Third, even if Paris Hilton went to Harvard, the school would still retain its image and prestige. That said, I believe your point 1 is valid and besides that you should also explore the culture and student body of both places. Wharton focuses more on analytics, while HBS on managerial, interpersonal, and networking.
If you use the search will find many threads that cover this. Unless you have already been accepted to both you are going to waste a lot of time debating the merits of each. Apply to both, the odds are one or both will reject you and save you a lot of needless deliberation. The fact that you think Harvard has a "price to pay" for having GW as an alum is or that there is a negative stigma as a result is ridiculous.
"However, I can see how in Europe you can be easily associated with an image, a club, a company or a school. I saw how they have destroyed the career and the life of politicians and central bankers who previously worked at Goldman Sachs, just because some of their former employer's employees have been associated with the financial crisis and its consequences."
Interesting. are you saying in Europe just working for GS could have harmed your career?
However, I want to be an entrepreneur. You should make sales in your business instead of going to business school.
Firefighter, one could argue that Mario Draghi, the Italian central banker and the highest caliber candidate to become the new head of ECB, will not get the position because of its links with Goldman (apart from the fact that Germans would not be quite happy with a fringe-state national -particularly an Italian- heading the ECB).
However, on the business world Goldman is still golden and it does nothing but help to have it on your resume.... if you are a politician, then it's a different story. But at some point the same thing could happen with any top-tier school (Wharton and Galleon) or firm (McK and Galleon again).
Wharton is better for stuff like finance, Harvard is better for stuff like management.
The best possible business education someone could have (resume-wise) would be to do Wharton undergrad and then get a Harvard MBA.
I am assuming that you want to get a MBA to (1) improve your ability to raise capital and (2) teach you general business skills. If this is the case, both will meet your needs.
Your second point is iffy, as you will not be living in luxury as a student. I know I wouldn't be less motivated by having nice classrooms, but it's your call.
As for point three, I can't speak for Europe; in the USA, your average Joe probably cannot even tell you where GWB went to school. And it certainly hasn't tarnished HBS's reputation here.
Have you been admitted to both schools? The adcom may make your decision for you.
Full disclosure: I go to HBS.
In the last three years, HBS Yield Rate (the number of people that get accepted and choose to go) has been 90%, 89% and 89%. The only school that HBS loses students to is Stanford, largely because of the weather and the connection with Silicon Valley. This isn't just conjecture, I've seen the cross-admit numbers from the admissions office and GSB really is the only school HBS admits consider. That said...
The 2nd and 3rd points you've brought up are not valid, but the reasons have already been discussed so I won't dwell on them. Your first point is much more interesting. Consider the following two things:
1) Next year, HBS is piloting a new program called FIELD - basically, getting away from the case method and having projects that put students in businesses around Boston (during the year) and around the world (during January) to better apply the toolkits we've been building at HBS. FIELD is a radical shift from the traditional HBS case-based curriculum, and to be honest, if you were REALLY considering HBS you would have brought it up. On that alone, I genuinely question if you're actually considering HBS and Wharton or just pretending to consider HBS to make yourself feel better about Wharton.
2) How does the amount of reading you have to do in b-school have anything to do with anything? I've never heard the statistic that Wharton students read 3x the amount that HBS students do, but even if that were true, that would be terrible for Wharton students. HBS gives us enough work - all of us feel incredibly busy with all the academic, career and social obligations we have. How are you supposed to get to know each other, recruit for a job, or even start up a business on the side if you have 6 hours of reading a night instead of two?! That sounds like a toxic environment and I certainly hope it's not true for the Wharton students' sake.
I will be the first to cede that Stanford has a comparable if not better environment for entrepreneurs than HBS because of its proximity to Silicon Valley. That said, HBS has both a deep and broad curriculum in entrepreneurship, including a required course in the first year. We also have tremendous access to Sloan, MIT and other Harvard classes, resulting in a lot of businesses being started out of the time people spend in the MBA program. Many of my classmates are entrepreneurs and some are running/selling businesses in their off time. Even more revealing is that over half of HBS alums will start their own business at some point in their careers. Further, we have a much stronger network than any other school for building boards and getting financing for start-ups. Wharton doesn't hold a candle to us in any of these regards - even if they have to read 3x the number of words we do.
Don't get me wrong, Wharton is an amazing school and anyone who goes there has a bright future ahead of them. It's also true that HBS isn't the right school for everyone - like all business schools, there are students who come here and realize they don't like it. That said, I've NEVER heard anyone say they wish they had gone to Wharton instead of HBS, especially not for the reasons you've brought up. The case method has its flaws, HBS recognizes that and is shifting away from it, but the flaws with the case method are certainly not the flaws that you've listed and the way you write about our school makes it sound like you've never stepped foot here.
i am sure you're a smart guy, but i don't even know how to responds to points 2 and 3. they are just.. ridiculous.
Do you have any idea how many HBS grads apply to wall street firms? Wharton for sure, it's a golden ticket to finance jobs.
It is a very strange way to put things.
Not sure how the case method will be such a detriment. If you have no prior experience in finance, marketing etc., you may want to have traditional classes.
As far as 2 and 3: I am not sure why these things would be so important. All the Goldman Sachs guys went to Wharton, and as you say GWB went to HBS, and I am sure if we go down the ladder, a ton of people you wouldn't (per you case) to associate with go to one of these schools.
Get admitted, choose your school for their pros, not their cons.
Good luck
"The France vs. Germany trade-off"
I am looking for any advice on this topic - please post any opinion/idea you have on this!
I am American, and, although I consider both excellent countries, I am thinking to pick France over Germany for my new citizenship. This is my rationale:
For finance, especially someone without a strong undergraduate finance education, point 1 holds valid. I sat in on several HBS classes - and I don't care how Deirdre tries to spin it. You're not going to learn how to do DCF's from reading case studies. Management is another story.
When it comes to actual finance (e.g. hedge funds), Wharton & Chicago are a tier above the rest.
Don't you think Columbia goes in there as well?
I like the concept of this post better than the actual points. Point 1 can arguably be a good one, though I am a bit skeptical about this 3:1 ratio. Point 2 is a bit strange at best, and I'm sure that's not what Steve Jobs was implying in his speech. Point 3 is completely laughable... so Harvard and Yale have bad reputations in Europe because of George W Bush? Really??
point one makes a lot of sense to me... but you lost some credibility with your second point and you went totally off your rocker on the Third Point.
You seem to have done a pretty thorough analysis according to your needs - Wharton
http://poetsandquants.com/2010/09/01/wharton-vs-harvard-business-school/
point 2 and 3 make me think the OP has not gotten accepted into either
I don't see how anyone can possibly turn down HBS for wharton. Does anyone honestly think they will have trouble finding finance jobs coming from HBS?
I don't think it's the access to jobs so much as it's a focus to become the most well rounded individual you can be. There is certainly validity to the argument of Wharton being more quant focused and for some people, they may see that as a personal shortcoming (for a number of reasons that include a non-finance related UG, didn't study or focus or learn what they could have when in school or they have worked in an industry that is quant based, etc.)...so, some people will look at Wharton and say, "I really need to go to Wharton because I'm not as comfortable with quant based stuff as I should be" and others will say, "I really shouldn't go to Wharton because I'm not as comfortable with quant based stuff as I should be".
I think one of the issues is that we (on WSO) tend to view B-school as merely a 2 year long networking program (and it is, to an extent) however, there is much to be learned there...especially if you are looking to start your own business or you are a switching careers. For many people they are sticking with the finance industry that they just left so what you learn probably seems less significant than what you did over the last 2 or 3 years you spent banging out (Excel) models...and who knows, maybe they already know what you need to know and the network is the biggest asset the school has to offer them...in which case Harvard probably has the edge on Wharton.
Regards
HBS vs Wharton (Originally Posted: 06/05/2012)
This has been done before, but not recently, so I thought a recap for shits and giggles would be fun. Which is better and why? (please done hate)
Also, assume candidate has top notch stats and already has a prestige degree from Harvard and access to the Harvard network, etc. Would HBS still be better than Wharton, assuming equal cost for both programs?
If the candidate had a prestige degree from Harvard, I would stick with the school.
That's not a good reason to do it again. What's wrong with re-reading the last thread on this? HBS has been retooling the curriculum a lot and finance is still suffering, but besides that, nothing has changed since the last time this debate was had.
There's a huge difference between the Harvard network and the HBS network. Think about your undergrad - would you feel as comfortable reaching out someone who graduated from your undergrad's law school but went to a different undergrad as you would reaching out to someone who graduated from your undergrad? What would you talk to them about? The experience is completely different.
My experience at common networking events for recent Harvard grads has been that there is a lot to speak to the HBS students about. But, you are right that I could not cold call/e-mail senior people from the HBS network (at least it would be really weird)
All things equal, I'd say it comes down to personal preference in this situation. Did the person enjoy Harvard the first time around? Do they want to be in Boston instead of Philly for two years? Do they have a significant other that could affect the decision? Either way the applicant wins.
Haha, I just noticed that the top 3 threads in the B-school forum are all about HBS. HBS Prof Malhotra's Speech, HBS, and HBS vs Wharton). I think that speaks volumes =)
Are we going to compare a Ferrari with a Lamborghini next?
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If I had an UG degree from Harvard, I'd do Wharton MBA to double the network, plain and simple. Always good to diversify the pedigree.
Any reasons to pick Wharton over HBS? (Originally Posted: 12/18/2015)
Hi there, fellow primates!
I've been admitted to the HBS and Wharton for the class of 2018. Love both schools, but am leaning heavily towards HBS for obvious reasons, plus I like Boston more than Philly (and have already boasted to everyone I know that I'm going to H due to it sending out decisions a week earlier).
Money is not a consideration as I will be sponsored by my firm. I've an engineering background and will have spent 2.5 years in MBB consulting by matriculation so hard skills/analytics/finance training is not relevant to the decision either.
Career interests (after going back to my firm to pay off the sponsorship) are impact investment, finance-y international organizations, eg. IMF, or large global non-profits, eg. Gates' foundation.
One major plus for W that I can think of is the Acumen-affiliated Wharton Social Ventures Fund. What would be some other pro's of picking Wharton?
Thanks!!
Wharton>Harvard for finance, but Harvard>Wharton name wise and if you want to move to consulting down the road or corporate leader, HBS would be best.
What do you mean by "W>H for finance"? For getting an IB job? Getting a PE job? Network being more useful for business development once at an MD/Partner?
First, congrats. You are in an enviable position.
Look, if you got into both, you're going to be able to do nearly anything you want. The career stuff should be less of a focus for you. Wharton is a little stronger in public-side finance (HF and IM) while HBS is a little stronger on PE, historically. This has been evening out in both directions over recent years.
More important for you, what kind of experience do you want to have? Do you want to the case study method for accounting classes? Do you want to live on campus or not? I'd advise you to go to admit weekends for both and see what feels better. For you, it sounds like it should be mostly about fit. Good luck.
no reason to choose W over HBS.
both have big class sizes, big networks, based in northeast. same selectivity... so it shall be easier than the typical HBS vs. Stanford question
maybe Wharton would have more niche finance types for your diversity? more undergrads / your future subordinates because HBS has no undergrad section? but if you want more quant classes, you're always free to take those quant-focused MIT Sloan courses next door.
Maybe... more diverse learning methods comparing to HBS's all-in case method? but I still don't feel that's enough to tilt against HBS
Wharton student here.
First off, overwhelmingly in most scenarios you'd choose HBS.
Let me add a few wrinkles though.
+Our impact investing scene is stronger than HBS, and even my friends in global impact funds verify Wharton's strength in this area. +HBS destroys Wharton in PE, but I feel our IM programs are very comparable. +All those firms you mentioned recruit here. Just saw something on the Gates foundation in our career site last month. +We have better bonding than HBS (our month-long preterm >>> HBS's 2 day preterm).
Feel free to reach out to me in private message. If you're 1000% locked into the career path in your original post, I think Wharton makes a very compelling case. But generally and for those who might bounce around, HBS is the more reliable option.
Sure. I'm Eastern European, will be 28 next September. Served in the military as a junior non-commissioned officer in an elite unit, followed by a BS/MS in computer science (summa, 3.9 GPA) and then MBB. Will have 2 years of full time experience and 1 year in internships by matriculation, working on cases across Eurasia. 760 GMAT.
Sick profile! Congrats on both offers. I guess both schools are quite comparable regarding what you'll learn and are both highly regarded by many prestigious firms in several industries. You can't really go wrong with either, but I would give HBS a slight edge over Wharton because of its reputation across many industries. Would be great if you share where you will ultimately go.
You'll learn more stuff at Wharton. Not sure if that's a relevant factor when selecting an MBA program. You don't really get an MBA to learn stuff.
At HBS now, would have seriously considered Wharton if I got in. Background was MBB + PE, was already in Boston.
If you don't mind actually going to class (a novel concept for some), I'd argue for HBS...you pretty much can't miss class, while my friends at Wharton seem to be traveling constantly.
I don't know much about how your long-term interests play at both schools. If you were interested in retail, I'd say Wharton. I know some people who are doing social impact investing at HBS through an on-campus club, so the community definitely exists.
Gates is also recruiting at HBS, as are a bunch of poverty alleviation foundations and impact investing funds, education non-profits, and related organizations.
As an aside, I would caution you that MBB "analysis" won't exactly make finance classes that much easier for you.
I never want to do that shit again though.
Thanks! But why then would you be considering Wharton (except for the being able to not go to class thing)?
In almost all cases, HBS is unequivocally the correct choice. My situation was an exception. I had Wharton above HBS because I am from the mid-Atlantic and 95% of the finance professionals that I know within my larger private high school (yes, that is a huge thing here) and friend/family networks consider Wharton to be #1, which plays in well with my long-term goals. Also 100% set on IB and sell side work so opportunities would be more or less the same at either. I could see a similar argument being made in the Midwest for Booth. Otherwise, HBS/GSB are #1 depending on which coast you're on. Now, I did not get into HBS so it is a moot point!
HBS. If it was Booth vs HBS, I'd choose Booth. I don't know why people say Wharton is great for finance. Their curriculum is a joke(like HBS and SGSB).
Lol you wouldn't happen to be near the midwest would you?
Finance: HBS/Wharton/MBA business schools">M7 (Originally Posted: 12/31/2014)
I'm a non-Finance monkey (coming from Tech sales and BD background) and whatever I have learned on finance till date is with my own effort. I haven't worked in finance industry ever (even though I aspired for it). Today, aiming to do my MBA in finance from one of the M7s. Immediate goal is Consulting (even though I wouldn't close my door to IB). Now, help needed:
(1) Many say HBS is case driven. Do they expect us to learn the finance basics beforehand or on our own and solve the cases? I understand the Professor will discuss the 20 page case, but how deep the concepts go? As I said initially, I'm a non-finance grad., and want to avoid surprises at the interview/class.
(2) How about Wharton? People say it's a powerhouse of finance. I've seen their advanced finance topics including restructuring and distressed investing; the syllabus looked attractive! In fact, some of their syllabus recommended books are on my study table.
(3) Campus recruitment: Looking at the placements, most of the IB/Consulting companies visit and pick Analyst/Bankers from both HBS and Wharton. Is/are there any difference(s) between the two from IB/Consulting perspective (let's set aside salary statistics).
Any further views and comments are welcome!
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