I-banking for a beginner

So I've been interested in doing consulting until I realized that ibanking may also be a solid fit. That being said, I've only prepared for consulting interviews (cases) and have not looked at any ibanking material. Can anyone tell me what types of questions (besides fit) you get asked in an ibanking interview and the best way to prepare for them? Many thanks.

 

A car thief, who had managed to evade the authorities in the past, unknowingly took the automobile that belonged to Detective Thompson. The sleuth wasted no time and spared no effort in discovering and carefully examining the available clues. He was able to identify four suspects with certainty that one of them was the culprit.

The four make the statements below. From twelve of total statements, six are true and six false.

Suspect A: 1. C and I have met many times before today. 2. B is guilty. 3. The car thief did not know it was the Detective's car.

Suspect B: 1. D did not do it. 2. D's third statement is false. 3. I am innocent.

Suspect C: 1. I have never met A before today. 2. B is not guilty. 3. D knows how to drive.

Suspect D: 1. B's first statement is false. 2. I do not know how to drive. 3. A did it.

Which one is the car thief?

 
vtech243:
A car thief, who had managed to evade the authorities in the past, unknowingly took the automobile that belonged to Detective Thompson. The sleuth wasted no time and spared no effort in discovering and carefully examining the available clues. He was able to identify four suspects with certainty that one of them was the culprit.

The four make the statements below. From twelve of total statements, six are true and six false.

Suspect A: 1. C and I have met many times before today. 2. B is guilty. 3. The car thief did not know it was the Detective's car.

Suspect B: 1. D did not do it. 2. D's third statement is false. 3. I am innocent.

Suspect C: 1. I have never met A before today. 2. B is not guilty. 3. D knows how to drive.

Suspect D: 1. B's first statement is false. 2. I do not know how to drive. 3. A did it.

Which one is the car thief?

Suspect "D" did it since he admitted that "B's first statement is false."

The statement cannot be a lie, because you wouldn't lie to hurt your case during a deposition.

 
vtech243:
A car thief, who had managed to evade the authorities in the past, unknowingly took the automobile that belonged to Detective Thompson. The sleuth wasted no time and spared no effort in discovering and carefully examining the available clues. He was able to identify four suspects with certainty that one of them was the culprit.

The four make the statements below. From twelve of total statements, six are true and six false.

Suspect A: 1. C and I have met many times before today. 2. B is guilty. 3. The car thief did not know it was the Detective's car.

Suspect B: 1. D did not do it. 2. D's third statement is false. 3. I am innocent.

Suspect C: 1. I have never met A before today. 2. B is not guilty. 3. D knows how to drive.

Suspect D: 1. B's first statement is false. 2. I do not know how to drive. 3. A did it.

Which one is the car thief?

B

***Edit below: It did take about 10 min to think it all the way through. But, if anyone is curious how to solve, I did it case by case. Assume X is guilty, and fall back to that 6 true 6 false rule. B is the only one that will balance and meet the criteria. There might be a faster approach.

I'll do what I can to help ya'll. But, the game's out there, and it's play or get played.
 
Best Response

See if your college offers an investment club. At my college we manage a 1.8 million dollar portfolio, and you will be taught how to:

-Create evaluation models to find the intrinsic value of a company (think historic, DCF, comparative and growth) -Write a paper outlining both the qualitative and quantitative reasons why you should buy a company (some qualitative will include a SWOT analysis, Porters 5 forces, relevant macroeconomic trends, etc) -Pitch in front of the group (in mine every Friday we have a 2 hour meeting where we run 30-45 minute pitches)

If your college offers a Finance specific concentration, ask some of your profs out to coffee and ask for their advice (or find some professors who are ex-bankers)

Shop around for boutiques in your community. An internship after freshmen year is crucial, and it will really help set yourself a part later on (even if it is at a boutique, it will give you something to talk about in interviews for more high profile internships later on, and your boutique might have some connections)

Know some general table steaks for IB (GPA 3.85 or greater usually, background in a quant heavy field, etc)

Try to find like minded people. I know that in my school's investment club just about 95% of the kids in their are working their way towards landing a job in PE or IB/other investment companies post graduation.

If possible, shoot for a F50 internship after freshmen year (even if it isnt finance related). Simply having the prestige of making it to an F50 company out of freshmen year will help you stand out for your IB internships for sophomore/jr. year

Hope this helps

 

Simple answer: pick up a book or take up a course in finance. I don't think going around asking people basic questions about finance will get you anywhere in your quest to "further your knowledge in finance".

 
bananafreak:
Internship would be important. But I would suggest you to transfer to a better school if possible. Not to say that it's impossible from Arizona State to IBD, but it's gonna be an uphill battle even if you have very high GPA.

I was thinking of completing my undergrad at ASU mainly because its cheap, close to home, and I actually quite like Phoenix, and then looking to go to b-school at Stanford or some better school. How much does as an undergrad play into things if you have an MBA in your experience?

 

Just stand out from everyone else in the internship and network to make up for the GPA. You still have time to boost it up, good luck!. .

There are only 2 paths to happiness in life. Stupidity or exceptional wealth.
 

Get your GPA up. People will care more about the fact that you can't produce a decent transcript at a non-target than they will about you being the treasurer of 10 clubs.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

so lock down your offer from the hf and learn how to add value and eventually make money.

depending on what style it is and what your role is, it's the job that a lot of people that the non risk-averse people wanted when they first heard about finance. obviously global macro versus fundamental l/s vs. quant will be wildly different experiences, but consider yourself lucky that you can see firsthand what investing is about without the bullshit of the sell-side

 

Another option would be to extend your graduation date by a semester - so you will graduate next fall. This way you can intern this summer. Summer internships recruiting season will still be in progress this Spring, so you still have a chance to get a solid internship with a firm of your choice. Good luck :)

 
theamazingbil:

What area of finance is your summer internship in?

This internship program is done through the school, so as of right now I'm not sure where I will be placed. I do know that I will have a choice of either London or Dublin for its location. I should find out more specifics in the next month or so. I'm hoping to break into investment banking, so I will definitely be pushing for a placement with a company that relates to this somehow.

pphi:

Don't blame your school. There are TONS of kids getting top jobs (not just high finance) from non-targets.

An MSF could be a target route for you considering you have good grades. Try and go to a top MSF program (assuming you want to get into Wall Street). Your internship along with a good GMAT (700+ hopefully) will help you get into a top MSF program.

I had always just assumed that I would have to go get work experience after I graduated and then apply for a top MBA program after a few years on the job. I hadn't even thought about MSF programs. I appreciate the advice and I'll definitely look into this some more!

 

Great. See what you can get and I agree with her about the MSF. I know plenty of people who broke in this way. If you already have a relevant internship, it gives you a shot at recruiting and a better brand name. See if there's any alumni in ibanking and ask for advice. At my first finance internship my boss was a Auburn alum and he was Auburn crazy basically - still went to games and everything, so I'm sure that many will love to help you out.

 
tulane1993:
Hello, I am new to WSO and am admittedly relatively new to the business world. I am a sophomore at Tulane University in the Freeman School of Business, and have a 3.8 cumulative GPA, although this is almost all from non-business prerequisite courses. I spent last summer interning at the press office of the Governor of Massachusetts, and before that worked for my father at his newspaper company. I am very interested in economics and hope to major in finance- but as I said, I know very little about the world of Wall Street.

I was hoping y'all could give me a quick summary of what I would need to do to inquire more about the finance world. By this I mean summer plans I should be making, extracurriculars that may help, etc.

I have browsed this site for the last few hours but it has all been a little confusing. There seems to be so much implied knowledge about all these fields of finance, and I don't really know what to make of all the information.

Thanks!

Welcome Tulane! check out our FAQs here to start to read about different industies: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/frequently-asked-questions if you go to top of page there is an FAQ drop down that can also take you directly to different sections of the FAQ section that is helpful for beginners.

Good luck, Patrick

 

You can start your process of breaking into i-banking by realizing that the use of multiple punctuation marks repetitively is unnecessary and makes you look like a total turkey.

"Yes. Money has been a little bit tight lately, but at the end of my life, when I'm sitting on my yacht, am I gonna be thinking about how much money I have? No. I'm gonna be thinking about how many friends I have and my children and my comedy albums."
 

If your trolling, may god have mercy on the amount of monkey shit thrown at you. If serious, attend a real university, try transferring into an ivy league in the States or UK (that is if you want to work here), then get internship, impress people, lock in offer, and your set to be a baller...Well actually its a little more complicated, but I'll explain after you get bitched at.

I think- therefore I fuck
 

Assuming this is not a troll the best summary is as follows:

  1. Get into the best university possible (target = school where lots of banks go to recruit for on campus recruiting "OCR" for short)
  2. After obtaining entry into a top school, keep GPA above the 90% mark. You're in Europe so it's different but the equivalent would be a 3.5+ GPA in the States.
  3. After keeping your grades up you work in finance internships, as high as possible to IBD, then in your junior year intern in IBD
  4. After getting the offer you immediately shop that offer so to speak and try to get into the best IBD group possible.

In terms of "target" versus "non-target" that is a major difference. It lowers your chances by quite a bit. Think about it like this.

Target school = Immediate access to 30+ banks for certain Non-Target = No access to any banks out of the gate, need to use linked-in, cold calling emails etc.

Finally, even if you go to a target school, if your grades are bad and you don't work hard to go directly into finance positions, you'll have hard time getting into any front office role in an investment bank.

 

Yes I heard about that fact, that it is very important to go to a target university but my GPA on grammar school is not good enough to get on a target. In business sciences and law I´m pretty good better than 99% but the rest is just average and those are the relevant subjects. So I have to go to a non-target first and after the first periode being better than 90% trying to change to a target right ? After grammar school I try to get a placement in corporate finance to improve my chances.

 

I think you need to focus on gaining a 'critical mass' of knowledge before you can make any informed decisions. Understand basic elements of corporate finance, accounting, and all of the 'jargon' that comes with high finance. I would spend as much time focusing on different areas of interest to seek out 'paths' of knowledge. For example, if you think you might like the idea of working with debt learn the basics first. Be hungry for knowledge and read everything you can. Start with the WSJ for easy reading and learn about how debt is a part of LBOs and then maybe branch out into learning about how LBOs happen and that might interest you specifically in high yield debt. From there you may get interested in how these issues trade or how the deals are structured. IMO once you know the basics you can begin to target points of interest, but a foundation must be laid first.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'
 
BepBep12:
I think you need to focus on gaining a 'critical mass' of knowledge before you can make any informed decisions. Understand basic elements of corporate finance, accounting, and all of the 'jargon' that comes with high finance. I would spend as much time focusing on different areas of interest to seek out 'paths' of knowledge. For example, if you think you might like the idea of working with debt learn the basics first. Be hungry for knowledge and read everything you can. Start with the WSJ for easy reading and learn about how debt is a part of LBOs and then maybe branch out into learning about how LBOs happen and that might interest you specifically in high yield debt. From there you may get interested in how these issues trade or how the deals are structured. IMO once you know the basics you can begin to target points of interest, but a foundation must be laid first.

Thanks for the solid advice. I think my focus should be grad school, an MBA more specifically.. I basically have an English degree and the most logical way to build a 'critical mass' of knowledge is formal schooling. Thanks again

 

Canadian? oh I skimmed the thread and thought you were talking about the University of Texas. Yeah UT is good school. In my experience Business majors aren't usually that difficult though in terms of the gpa range people get.

 

There is no point in transfering since there are many opportunities for you to enter the ibanking field. You have all the major banks plus the known boutiques plus some of the BBs from U.S. hiring or ibanking and s&t positions, so all you need is a solid gpa 3.7+ and a 3rd year summer internship at a known place for ibanking.

 

U of T, Western Ontario, and Ivey are the schools I have heard from Canada that get the most looks from American banks. If you want to work on Bay Street I am sure that with a good GPA and your location you would have little trouble finding the proper contacts from your alumni to get an internship and later a job.

NYC will be a little trickier. Here you should try to reach out to alumni even more. There are likely more guys that started on Bay St. and then moved south to NYC when they moved up the ranks or switched positions. I do remember several guys from Canadian schools who I met during my interview rounds so it is definitely possible, though not the norm.

Remember, don't just do well in school. Become actively involved in a group on campus or a volunteering position, or if you are paying your way through school, make sure the jobs you get have some value you can use in the future on your resume. Nowadays it's not just having a good GPA and a few contacts; you want to separate your resume from the pile to get to the interviews. At that point, it's 100% up to your preparation and ability to sell yourself.

 

Transferring to Ivey is definately a must-do if you're looking to do investment banking. Not only do Ivey students get the most attention from recruiters, putting all other canadian schools to shame, but you also get awesome preparation to be a banker (which is probably why recruiters like Ivey) and you have a great alumni/friend base on the street ...

To make things more relevant, a friend of mine who transferred from UofT Commerce to Ivey landed a sweet gig at audax (top MM private equity shop in boston), which is likely one of the best jobs any canadian got this year!

Also, I would do Ivey over queens as you technically won't be "transferring" and your social life won't get fucked as HBA starts in your 3rd year and all your peers will also be new to the program, whereas at Queens, I'd feel out-of-place transferring in the middle of the program.

 

I can tell you if you keep chasing different schools in the hopes of having a higher chance landing a job you will never succeed. Just take what you have and succeed with that. Grass is always greener on the other side.

 

Ivey is great school. All major iBanks in Canada recruit there as well as many US BB. If you want to work in the US then I highly recomend switching to Ivey. If you want to work in Canada, finish your Bcom and do your MBA at Western. Bay street is littered with Ivey MBA grads and one of the most important things you get from an MBA is an alumni network.

Best of luck to you.

 

McGill's B-school isn't as well recruited to bay street but has good connections with some BB banks in NY (GS,CS) and sends a decent portion of Bcom grads down that way. Ivey is a better B-School but McGill is generally known in the US as the top Canadian Uni overall. After placing 12th in the world in the latest Times ranking (vs UWO 126), that will likely continue. Plus living in montreal beats london or kingston any day.

 

MFin or MFE over Masters in Econ hands down.

Because this is a masters program, specializing in a MFin (preferably a MFE) is a lot better choice and top programs in those areas will attract recruiters who will be specifically looking to hire students for trading roles, because of their quantitative skills.

The courses you took mean nothing, it's about your school name and degree name. Hence a MFE who took easier classes at a strong school >>>> Masters in Econ with the hardest subjects possible at a lower tier school.

 

No, its not ridiculous if I have better stats than 99.9% (except for job). I don't know anything about the application process, but I'm a smart guy, which is why some people tell me I have a good shot. That's why I wanna check with you guys if it's true or not or what can be done about it.

 
ftw:
No, its not ridiculous if I have better stats than 99.9% (except for job). I don't know anything about the application process, but I'm a smart guy, which is why some people tell me I have a good shot. That's why I wanna check with you guys if it's true or not or what can be done about it.

Better stats (except for job) is meaningless. People will have comparable stats but spent the last 2-3 summers at BBs interning... How do you stack up? Also, how could you not have any internships at all? Unless you are an top d1 athlete, which may help...

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..
 

Do you realize that people who apply to IBD positions usually have better stats that 99.9% (including job)?

Disclaimer for the Kids: Any forward-looking statements are solely for informational purposes and cannot be taken as investment advice. Consult your moms before deciding where to invest.
 

very high GPA -> so does everyone else who apply to banking jobs

your plans have changed -> why did give up on your previous ambitions? did you fail? finance don't like losers, so find something else to do. finance pays better? well, if you're it for the money then what you want is what you won't get

since your GPA high you must be very smart! why don't you think about how to get in? marks = nothing after you graduate. sorry but this is the end of your career. start at the back of the unemployment line.

we know where toronto is. no need to say it is in canada. we're not from alaska.

no prior experience and you want a job in a BB? geez, who doesn't? again, take a # and start at the back of the line.

some people tell you that you are good enough. why don't they offer you a job? if they are your friends then you need to get new friends to won't lie to you.

 
  1. Look, I am pretty confident that my GPA and academic stats are better than most of the applicants' and this isn't just me being overconfident, I just don't want to share details.

  2. No, I did not fail and I am not a loser, I just made an important decision.

  3. I am a recent grad, I just graduated last month. Marks are important when you're applying during the school year, from school (with no experience), and I also assume they are important when you just graduated and are applying for an analyst position straight from school.

These are the reasons I and some others tell me I am good and have a shot. I am not just an unemployed guy aiming for the top without considering anything else. I do have other great options, and I want to try out the BB because I am very distinguished (not exaggerating). If it doesn't work out, I will do other things and still make a lot of money. That's why I'm so directed strictly to BB jobs. I hope this shows my viewpoint a little.

 

Nope, you just sound like an asshat (or do you have Asperger's?). The only distinguished Canadians are Tim Horton, Celine Dion and Sidney Crosby.

But, if you're as great as you think you are, and you want a BB job and to start before September, your best bet is find an open spot from someone who reneged on an offer, and convince someone senior you're worth that spot. So, network.

I'm going to give you the same advice I give all Canadians: Have you considered a career as not Canadian?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 

I believe what the above posters are trying to tell you is that despite your uniquely awesome GPA and distinguished existence, which is clearly a blessing to us all, you have had ZERO internships and only a few ECs. This alone makes you average at best. Moreover, you are clearly not very interested in Finance or a job in banking since you only now decided to pursue a career in it and are not willing to read about it and research it on your own. As such, I strongly believe that you are a prestige whore with an overinflated ego.

With the above in mind, I believe the message the above gentlemen are trying to convey is that you ain't all dat, and use the fucking search function!

Best of luck in your BB hunt.

 

Your chances are pretty terrible for a couple of reasons:

  1. If you sound half as pompous in person as you come off in your posts, no interviewer is going to want to work with you.

  2. Even if your sudden reason for wanting to work in IB is legit, interviewers are going to wonder if you recently discovered that it pays relatively well and decided to give it a shot.

  3. You haven't done any internships throughout you entire college career, while nearly everyone else has had at least one IB internship if not an internship in another industry.

We all get that you believe that your stats are higher than others, which in another industry may be true, but most competitive IB analysts come from a decent university with a strong GPA, plenty of EC's, and prior internships. That's mainly because they have been planning for this career since they were sophomores, not the months after they graduated college.

 

Just to add a point, I have a ton of ECs, for which I won awards. I admit I may have come off pompous here, but that's because I wanted to show that I'm not just the next guy who irrationally and stubbornly wants IB and IB only. I wanted to create some credibility, but I realize it might have backfired.

The sudden reason really is a long story (including early graduation etc), and I assure you it's not just some shallow reason.

And yes, out of the 3 reasons I will concede the third. However, I came here not to ask why my chances are terrible, but what can I do; how can a guy who has the highest GPA, plenty of ECs, plenty of awards and recognition, but is a little late in the game increase his chances of getting a job?

 

The biggest obstacle is going to be the fact that you have no internships. It is going to be hard to convince a recruiter or interviewer to overlook that, and even more difficult to explain why you didn't have any. Honestly, high GPA and good EC's are both expected and won't really set you apart from the crowd, which is why I think you may be looking at a dead end unless you can network with some alumni from your school who are high enough in the ranks of their office to get you an interview. Aside from that, you really don't have many options aside from cold-calling/emailing and hoping someone has a spot that needs to be filled and hasn't yet. I would start focusing your efforts towards something with a higher likelihood of success. You obviously haven't been interested in IB for very long so acknowledging that it's probably not going to work shouldn't be that heartbreaking.

 

Life's all about managing expectations and you seem to be a little out of touch

Bay streets a very small place. With no previous internships or experience, especially in this job market, your honestly wasting your time.

Get a job right now. Any job. Forget IB right now because you seriously don't have a chance

Sit in for the CFA this december. Start networking. Read everything you can and maybeeeeeeeeeee you might have a fighting chance to break in in 2013

But don't mean to rain on your parade or be a complete asshole - its a long stretch for you to break in with your stats in this job market

 

Look guy, I know you mean well and all, but your claim of "better stats than 99.9%" is comical from U of Toronto. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a college elitist, but do you honestly believe that your 3.8+ at UT is more impressive than even 3.5+ at HYPS, UChicago, MIT?

Come on now.

 

No, 3.8 wouldn't be as impressive as I'm presenting myself here. Also, UT isn't quite the school where they give away free marks you know, you still have to earn your worth...

 

I am curious, you know nothing about IB, but you are so eager to pursue a career in it? How does that work. Pretty paradoxical...

The difference between successful people and others is largely a habit - a controlled habit of doing every task better, faster and more efficiently.
 

You should look into grad school. Clearly with your ">99.9%" stats you will easily get into one. Then use that OCR... oh wait, graduate admissions were completed back in April...

Sucks bro

On second thought, I remember seeing Bank of America hiring college grads for a bank teller position. You deal with money - aka investments, at a bank - sounds close enough to investment banking

 
Ace6904:
You should look into grad school. Clearly with your ">99.9%" stats you will easily get into one. Then use that OCR... oh wait, graduate admissions were completed back in April...

Sucks bro

On second thought, I remember seeing Bank of America hiring college grads for a bank teller position. You deal with money - aka investments, at a bank - sounds close enough to investment banking

LOLLL

 
ftw:
I meant that I know nothing about the mechanics of the hiring process (but that's not entirely true, I know a little, just that I wanna learn more from the IB geniuses on this forum, who apparently are kinda assholish)

If you had any expectations of bankers being nice, even if you manage to get an interview + get an investment banking job, you will be teared apart by the work the assholish MDs/VP/Associates

 

No one cares about your GPA.

GPA is totally irrelevant. I was in-charge of looking for new FT recruits in my last BB internship, all that mattered was a big name on their resume and finance experience. No one gives 2 shits about your 4.0.

Your GPA is only good to land you an internship.

 

Is this guy for real? Look buddy I'm sorry to throw cold water at ya but most jobs in Toronto have been already filled with keeners from Ivey, Queens, others students who started really early in the process. I know kids at top Canadian targets that have been gunning for it since day one and have had two previous internships (RBC Wealth management + boutique IB) before the recruiting formally started in junior year. Not to mention their grades and ec were stellar as well. Your only hope now is to probably get a decent job for 2+ years and apply for a MBA program and try then.

 

Anyone keeping count of how many times this dickface contradicted himself?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Let me give you a straight answer: 0% chance.

Top-tier Canadian universities are not as respected as top-tier American universities. Not saying whether or not that's fair but that's the way it is. Also your lack of internships are killing you. The ECs are meaningless without internships. I mean I understand if you have no finance internships, but no internships in anything at all? What were you doing during the summers?

Like others said, no one cares about GPA, all it will do is get you an interview, which can be accomplished through networking, which you haven't done, and even if you did get an interview, you would have nothing to talk about since you have no internship experience.

 

Good luck with the search, but here is the harsh truth:

There are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of kids who have gone through college (some haven't graduated yet, others are just starting) and have vowed to be bankers. They have read around a lot, and have arguably better knowledge than some BB analysts. They also have good, if not awesome, grades/GPAs.

They either get in via nepotism or have networked their ass off. Either way, you are long gone. You have to network like a tank, convince everyone that you are better than the rest, DESPITE the fact everyone else has joined finance societies, worked during summer at a bank, and got 100+ biz cards.

Its a long road ahead, but if you really really really want to get in...your best bet is to find a friend on the inside who can refer you.

 

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  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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