(GMAT) Do IR and AWA scores matter?

Do the people at admissions for MBA programs care about the Integrated Reasoning and Analytical Writing Assessment scores? I just began studying for the GMAT and the book mentions that the gmat score is computed only from the quantitative and verbal sections.
This could make sense because I have yet to see anyone here talk about their IR or AWA scores.

 

I think most people will tell you just don't bomb them. I think a 5/6IR and a 4AWA will get a pass, not sure though. Maybe some admitted people could share their Total and their IR/AWA

 

IR is still too new and I haven't heard schools taking the IR seriously as of now, however a 7 or 8 is a good target. As for the AWA, make sure you get a respectable score, 5.5 or higher. If the admissions committee sees a highly polished essay and then see a score of 4,then that can raise red flags.

www.gmatquantum.com
 

The IR does carry some weight when it comes to MBB recruiting. Bain apparently has started using the IR as a proxy measurement when filtering out applicants. For MBA admissions, as others have mentioned, it is still too new for adcom to properly gauge.

 
Best Response
YoshiIsAwesome:

Really? Where did you hear this? That's pretty surprising given that the IR is only a short 30 minute section and it seems as though it could suffer from idiosyncratic performance fluctuations given the small # of questions. Seems odd that they'd use this... and this is coming from someone who scored an 8 on the IR.

I think IR is a much better indicator of your performance in consulting than sentence correction or solving a quadratic equation. In a short time frame (as consulting always gives tight deadlines), you need to navigate ambiguity and analyze data. I think it would be a better indicator for certain employers than for adcoms. Not to say its the best, and you are right that your performance really will fluctuate. I was scoring between 2 and 6 on my practice IR tests (took about 8 of them). On top of that, it is not computer adaptive so everyone gets the same questions.

 

Instead of thinking how important IR/AWA are, why not just work on it a bit to get a high score?

Non-native English speaker here. Didn't practice IR/AWA outside OG content (only write like 1-2 AWA topics), got 6 AWA 8 IR. I think it is much easier than verbal section.

 

As someone who regularly dominates the parts of standardized tests that don't matter, as opposed to my performance in the parts that do matter, I can attest to them not mattering. Also, :(

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

I was at a GMAC (the people who run the GMAT) presentation a while ago and they had early initial data that showed a high correlation between IR scores and the GMAT quant section of the test -- so that argues for admissions committees to look more at quant scores than IR scores, since they have more data on student MBA performance and quant success. Yes, they track this stuff.

Having said that, schools also like to see as much data as possible, so there's no harm in having a great IR score.

Here are more details in a Poets & Quants article http://poetsandquants.com/2014/10/09/b-schools-still-discount-gmats-ir-… which describes a Kaplan (which owns Manhattan GMAT) survey that

found that 60% of the 204 responding admission officers say the IR score is not an important part of their evaluation of a student’s overall GMAT score.

So no, it's not important, but if it's really low, it could raise a red flag. And if it is high -- it probably tracks well with the rest of your score.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

Thank you everyone for your input. I'll try to keep those scores up.

Then nothingness was not, nor existence. There was no air then, nor heavens beyond it. Who covered it? Where was it? In whose keeping? Was there then cosmic water, in depths unfathomed? -- Nasadiya Sukta
 

If you have a good overall score, I'd say to not do it again. IMHO, if you're sitting on a 730 and a 4.5, it probably wouldn't be worth the shot to improve the AWA.

I too am of the school of thought that AWA is a load of crap. If they doubt your writing abilities, write a kick ass essay.

 

I am in the same boat lightwing. Scored 770 on the test and 4.5 on AWA, which was a bit disappointing / embarrassing when I received my AWA scores in the mail.

I have been advised that the AWA is in fact just as worthless as I had originally been led to believe from reading GMAT prep materials. As Skiloa referenced, this can be a determining factor for foreigners; however, for others the test is widely viewed as a poor proxy for written communication skills (particularly since the scoring "buckets" are so large and the criteria is so subjective).

Apparently, application essays are used as the primary determinant of your written communication abilities.

 
lightwing:
I have a questions with my GMAT AWA score. I took it on the last Friday and got 4.5. Although many people say that the writing is not important, and I see none of b-schools releases the statistics about AWA scores of admitted applicants, however, somehow I think that in the peer group of top school applicants (say Wharton, Chicago...), it is still relatively lower than in the whole pool of GMAT takers and thus becomes a disadvantage.

Whay do you guys think? Should I retake the exam shortly? Thanks very much for reading my post.

how do you know your awa scores so quickly?

 

Don't worry about the AWA seriously...they'll look at your undergrad academics, your GMAT verbal score, your essays in the apps, the interview, etc. There's a million ways to gauge your english ability. I don't think any school takes it seriously, unless you get a 2 or something.

For example, I took the GMAT twice, once 5.5 and once 4.5. The only difference is that I wrote one less paragraph in the lower score, quality of the writing is the same. So basically the AWA is BS, and bschools know that.

Just get the main score within your target school's middle 80%, that's it.

 

Yeah not worth studying for the AWA. In one of my review books there was a sample 6, 4, and 2 essay for both argument and issue and just reading those was the only preparation I did, and I got a 5.5. One good piece of advice I got which helped a lot, spend between 8-12 min. planning out your essay. If you get a rock-solid plan, typing it out takes very little plan and obviously makes your essay very well-organized.

 

In my old GMAT days what I remember from all the collective information I read was: What matters is your overall gmat score, your AWA does not matter as much AS LONG AS it is a 5 or above. If it is below a 5 the admission committee might have some questions about your abilities, but that's it. You really have to be dyslexic to get below a 5 though, and if you do, you can practice the AWA. I did not open a single book to train for the AWA section, as long as you listened in high school English you should be fine.


Remember, you will always be a salesman, no matter how fancy your title is. - My ex girlfriend

 

SB if you post the gist of your essays and the questions - did you just not try hard? I got a 6.0 and at one point referred to the fact that Chinese people love chopsticks and will probably never let them go, even though they are well aware of the fork (thanks Jerry Seinfeld)

The question asked whether the advancement/spread of technology means that cultures over time will fade and we will just become one monotonous culture.

To your question on what the adcoms use it for, it's much more relevant for non-native english speakers. For natives, it's usually not really factored in. In your case, they'll probably just say hey, he must not have tried that hard or focused on it, but no big deal as he's clearly smart and knows english.

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it
 

Aaaaaand just realized this is from 2011, not 2012. I was wondering how you posted in the future on July 15 and wanted to see your time machine. Crap.

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it
 

Starting my first FT job this summer for a BB in a MO role, so I wouldn't be looking towards b-school for another 3-4 years. Academics are solid (3.5+ from a top 30 UG) with some ECs and worked part-time during most of it.

 
BreakingOutOfPWM:

What the hell is wrong with a 5 AWA? You're one point from the top bucket. The only reason you should retake the GMAT is if you want to tutor.

I was worried only being in the 60th percentile would look bad for some of the better programs

 
Frank Slaughtery:

agreed with the other posters - your GMAT is fine and you shouldn't retake. Youshould really try to get into a FO role over the next few years though. It's doable to go from BO/MO to top 10 (@opsdude1 is living proof), but it's way tougher.

Or, alternatively, look for roles where you have direct reports. Some schools put an emphasis on that.

 

My GMAT was 700 (Q49/V35 - I shit the bed on the verbal), with an AWA of 6.0/6.0. I can tell you that not a single person has every asked me (including the recruiters) about the AWA or the Q and V scores. The only thing anyone has ever asked me was: "What did you get on the GMAT?", expecting to hear a single concise number.

Don't waste your time retaking the GMAT for the AWA, no one cares. Totally agree with FinanceGuy15 above, too.

Double Doubler
 
Khayembii:

LOL a 740 is "decent" now?

ok in hindsight maybe not the best choice of words. I meant "decent" in terms of the more elite programs/the scores discussed on this forum usually.
 

You got a 780 with two weeks of preparation? This seems a bit hard to swallow

EDIT - Wait - my 51Q 47V is also a 780. Are the buckets larger at the top? (i.e 770 to 780 needs bigger jump than 760 to 770?)

@OP: 4.5 is generally the acceptable limit. But , they might wink at it.

 

I've always been a strong test taker (with the exception of timed essays). Given my results on the first of two free GMATPrep practice exams, I knew I was shooting for something around 750 and I decided to take the test before leaving for a two week vacation so I could relax with a clean slate.

 
jordock:
I've always been a strong test taker (with the exception of timed essays). Given my results on the first of two free GMATPrep practice exams, I knew I was shooting for something around 750 and I decided to take the test before leaving for a two week vacation so I could relax with a clean slate.

In that case - retake it after some more intense study - try to get your AWA to 6.0 and shoot for a 790.

 
jordock:
I've always been a strong test taker (with the exception of timed essays). Given my results on the first of two free GMATPrep practice exams, I knew I was shooting for something around 750 and I decided to take the test before leaving for a two week vacation so I could relax with a clean slate.

OK, thinking about it more.

The bad AWA and great verbal is such an aberration that adcoms will just plain wonder, as we are all doing here on this forum.

At best they will wink at it and check your logic out in the interview (the AWA is not about grammar, but being able to put a logical argument together under a short time), and at worst they will think you are a natural genius at test taking but a slacker. And business schools don't like slackers.

If indeed you are a good at this stuff, suck it up and take it over. I think they would expect that of you.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

More seriously - there's the danger of them thinking (with your score) that you just wrote some incoherent nonsense in the essay so that you could save your energy for the main event. And that's the main issue here. Otherwise , it's quite obvious that the AWA score has no relationship with how lucid your writing actually is.

 

I'm under the impression that AWA can be overwritten by amazing MBA essays. I also assume that a solid critical reasoning performance (since you did pretty well on Verbal) is very similar to AWA? (at least that's how i worked for me, I used the same principles in my critical reasoning prep as my AWA). I'd totally switch places with you.

 
jordock:
I'd hope my essays & undergraduate GPA could alleviate any concerns regarding my writing ability.
Vyraal:
I'm under the impression that AWA can be overwritten by amazing MBA essays.

NOT TRUE. If your application essays are spectacular and your AWA score is low, admissions officers will suspect that somebody else wrote your application essays.

Definitely not worth the risk -- I would retake and get a higher AWA score.

 

Thanks for your insights. I won't be able to retake the exam for another couple of weeks so I'll take some time to weigh my options and consider my strategy. As my missteps were related to preparation & time management (along with my slow typing speed) as opposed to writing or analytical ability, I'm confident I can improve my AWA score.

 

That sucks, I assume you've seen the 'this is how you get 6.0' template? Works like a charm. Either way GMAT raw score and GPA (+ where you went) will matter a ton more than the AWA. Top 10 is a bit of a crap shoot with low 700s. A well written essay will show you can write, and just the GMAT essay tripped you up.

 
Revul:

That sucks, I assume you've seen the 'this is how you get 6.0' template? Works like a charm. Either way GMAT raw score and GPA (+ where you went) will matter a ton more than the AWA. Top 10 is a bit of a crap shoot with low 700s. A well written essay will show you can write, and just the GMAT essay tripped you up.

Actually didn't study for the AWA that much, since I recieved a 5.0 on this first time around... I guess I got complacent. I feel like I am on the bubble for top-10 given my undergrad backgroud, I have a 3.6 GPA from a large state school.

 

AWA scores don't really matter. IR matters less. There are schools that don't even look at them; can't speak for top 10 schools but can speak for some schools in the 20-30 range.

As mentioned previously, your essay will show your writing style. Don't worry about it.

When do you separate? Depending on your career goals, there are some great veteran programs you should get involved with. PM me if you care

 

I did worse and don't feel like it hurt me at all. My overall score was higher though. I felt like it was a blessing in disguise honestly - it made me focus a lot more on communication which in turn helped my essays and interviews.

 

That's good to hear. Obviously I wish I would've looked at that damn template beforehand. I am not taking it again, that test is brutal haha. I just hope they don't assume that someone else wrote my essays...

 

That is a little odd, but I do not think anyone is going to care about your AWA score with the 780. Thats a great number. No one questioned my AWA score in an interview. I personally would not take the test again for that.

 
Bucs47:
That is a little odd, but I do not think anyone is going to care about your AWA score with the 780. Thats a great number. No one questioned my AWA score in an interview. I personally would not take the test again for that.

Agree, it will not matter. But gotta ask...how did you score that low? I'll trade you 1.5 points on my AW for 35 points of your cumulative.

I've heard the adcoms really only look at them hard if the candidate is ESL. I think at the most they'd say "that's a little weird, he must've just not prepped it at all..."

Make sure your essays show you know how to write and you should be fine.

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it
 
FMonkeys:
The thing is I got a 780+3.5, which looks pretty not that consistent.... Hence I'm wondering whether I should re-take the test. Can anyone let me know how importance is the AWA score in admission? Considering my overall profile: 2 year BB experience (think MS, GS), now at a tier-1 PE firm (think KKR, TPG). Is the AWA score too low?

That is a bit strange. Are you a native speaker of English? Also, what did you get on your verbal percentage? They will look at that carefully. Also, did you take any courses in undergraduate that required you to read long passages and write papers?

Here is what Dee Leopold's, HBS admissions director said on June 1

" We are looking at subscores. The GRE and GMAT play different roles for different types of candidates. ... If we are looking at a candidate who is a strong engineer, taken tons of math and is working with numbers and analytical stuff all day, I don’t think we need to pay terribly much attention to what their gmat quant scores are. We want to look at their GMAT verbal score because maybe their undergraduate work and maybe in their [full-time] work they are not having practice in terms of writing and reading long passages, so we want to make sure there’s a level of comfort there."

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

Unfortunately, the way the GMAT works you will have to retake the test. The GMAT, unlike tests like the SAT (where you can mix and match sections), does not allow you to mix and match your best scores - in other words, your math, verbal and AWA all have to come from 1 exam. If you don't have an AWA score from your 680, it will appear that you got a 680 combined score and a 0 AWA. You cannot, unfortunately, use your AWA from the previous exam to count for this exam. Although you can send the school both scores, it will definitely be seen as quite odd when you show a 0 AWA from your most recent test (especially since many schools only really look at your one best overall test).

IBanker www.BankonBanking.com [email protected] Interview Prep, Resume Revisions, News, Articles and More - Stop by Now!

 

No Marcus, you cannot skip them. I have been told that EU universities do not look at AWA and IR at all, the only one stating a requirement I saw was Oxford, asking >5 in AWA.

If you struggle at keeping high level of concentration, then it could be handy to pick the order option with AWA and IR at the end after Q and V.

 

On the GMAT you can't choose anything! -> AWA-IR-Q-V Especially the verbal part at the end is exhausting!

I would take them all serious. It is quite easy to get a decent grade for AWA, if English is not you first language you can just learn a lot of intros / passages by heart and you are good to go. The layout of most of the essays is gonna be pretty standard. I personally thought that the IR was increadibly easy on the GMAT. Manhatten prep exams I was barely able to score 3-4 points and on the real exam I scored 8/8 and had plenty of time left.

Overall I would not worry about AWA and IR, however, keep in mind that with little effort you can get decent results.

 

As as a GMAT tutor - the general rule on both AWA and IR are "don't blow it". 5/6 on AWA is good. 6-8 on IR is fine. In the mid range for either is not worth retaking. If you totally blow one or the other, you might want to consider retaking. The schools might provide feedback for you if all the other pieces are in place.

Generally a 4+ on AWA is not hard if you learn how to construct a 5x5 essay. IR is its own beats; it can take some practice.

Not sure if EU schools are the same but that's our guidance across the pond.

 
JB1995:
I saw the GMAT website states "Your gmat score is based off of Quant and Verbal.....IR and Essay do not affect your total score"That being said, is there any reason to study those sections?

IR and Essay are reported separately in your application. I'd review each for a max of 1 or 2 hours and you'll be fine. Don't want to totally blow it but also don't need to crush it (although it's very easy to get top scores in both).

 

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Like the unadjusted- only with a little bit extra.
 

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