Are they all viewed pretty well? I'd assume Amherst and Williams lead the pack, but do they all get ibanking recruiting? I'm unsure of how recruitment goes. I've heard that the NESCAC is viewed very good overall since it is considered the Little Ivy League. Any opinions?
| +40 | Wharton Huntsman Program vs Yale vs Dartmouth | 40 | 16h | |
| +32 | Umich Ross vs Rice vs Notre Dame Mendoza | 17 | 15h | |
| St Andrews vs LSE vs Middlebury | 18 | 5h | ||
| +26 | Target School Kids Stop Complaining | 6 | 18h | |
| +25 | Oxbridge or Top 15 US School. | 7 | 6h | |
| +23 | Imperial College Finance Masters' | 5 | 1d | |
| +22 | UCL Vs Warwick Vs Umass Amherst Vs UW Madison Vs UofT for undergrad | 22 | 1h | |
| +20 | LSE BSc Economics vs Cambridge BA Economics | 7 | 8h | |
| +18 | UK/EU MSc's in Finance | 7 | 11h | |
| +17 | Why is Boston College CSOM praised so much here? | 10 | 4d |
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Also I'm not entirely sure if I want to work for Ibanking or VenCap. Is VenCap like Private Equity where you can only get hired with ibanking experience?
in terms of what % of the graduating class goes into BB IBD, it probably goes something like this (from greatest to least):
Keep in mind this is an estimate for 2015. Colby used to have OCR from Barclays because Rob Diamond was an alumnus, but he was fired during the financial crisis IIRC. UConn is a bit of an anomoly, but I think I lot of types who fucked up in high school and only got into UConn have banker dads or something.
You can get to Wall St. from Bates, but you'll have to hustle much more than the kids from Williams. Oh, and you can get into PE and VC direct from undergrad, but usually it'll take something impressive to help you stand out.
EDIT: upon reflection, Tufts should probably be lower on the list. Tufts in terms of quantity sends just as many people to IBD as Williams does, but Tufts' class size is also 2-3x bigger.
EDIT 2: Colby students please continue to throw monkey shit at me
I go to UConn presently and from the people I know that have gone into and are going into BB IBD, none of them have dads that are bankers. I'm sure that maybe some that I don't know do, but the guys I know that are entering IBD aren't breaking in because of their dads.
"my anecdotal evidence doesn't jive with your anecdotal evidence, so HA!"
if you haven't already, you will find that most of WSO's content is opinion based this is what i have seen an observed; take it with however many grains of salt as you like
That's because he meant Conn College.
I think you mean Connecticut College, not Uconn
He already acknowledged this....
FWIW, Bob Diamond was actually pushed out during the LIBOR scandal and not the financial crisis. Barclays, largely because of Diamond, flourished during the crisis as they acquired Lehman's Investment Banking arm.
CS used to recruit at Bates--I don't know if that's still the case, but it was ~3 years ago. I think the list posted above isn't far from accurate. I would alter it by bumping up Bates/Colby/Trinity over Conn College.
Is Hamilton that far down? I've heard Hamilton is a very white rich student body and since it's only a couple hours from NY, one would assume it to be better than most second to last.
I didn't go to Hamilton, but am very familiar with the school. Matayo is has the high levels trends down with Amherst/Williams/Midd being at the top, but after that his list kind of goes to shit. It depends on whether or not you're looking for the pure number of kids that go into banking or the opportunities.
I can assure you that Bowdoin and Wesleyan don't outpace Hamilton, Bates, or Colby by that much, if at all. Trinity is also informally known as one of the weakest NESCAC schools and UCONN isn't even a NESCAC. Matayo might have meant Conn College, but if he did that would be all the way at the bottom of the list.
OP, the general gist is that if you're going to one of the top three schools I mentioned earlier you'll have a bunch of opportunities. After that they're probably all roughly the same for placement, with school ranking and feel of the campus being a decent indicator of what the placement is like. Hamilton tends to be more fratty so it has decent opportunities, whereas Bowdoin is more intellectual, but can claim it's a top 5 NESCAC school.
I know guys from Bates who make it to wall street. Do well in school and network hard and you'll be fine.
thank you
What do you think of Davidson? Is it up to par with the top tier NESCACs? I feel it likely has good recruiting with Charlotte and Atlanta in very close proximity to the campus and it being very well known in that region.
I'm on the trading side but don't know very many NECSAC people outside of a few lacrosse players. Totally anecdotal though.
This is because ~25-33% of students at NESCAC schools are varsity athletes. The lax team at any NESCAC is going to be the ones with the rich families, connections via team alumni and coaches, etc. so it's not terribly difficult to get a job. Ultimately, outside of the 'top' schools, the only reason you might see so many NESCAC people on the street is because of their wealth/connections. In general, wealthier families send their kids to NESCAC schools. Half the people come from Milton, Choate, Andover, Exeter, etc..
Sounds like a diverse student body...
I'm a NESCAC grad. Although the OP didn't asked about consulting, I think it's helpful to categorize finance and consulting recruiting together. I prefer to think of placement in terms of % of class, though of course larger LACs do have an advantage over some of their peers do to size (think Middelbury vs. Claremont McKenna). And though I don't discuss them below, Swarthmore, Pomona, and CMC all do quite well for themselves.
The Best
Williams: Strong banking recruiting, and also a powerful PE/VC network. McKinsey and Bain target. Probably rivals Dartmouth/Princeton in terms of % of alumni who are in senior positions at elite firms.
Amherst: The caliber is similar to Williams, though the network is smaller since the college is smaller than Williams.
Middlebury: Does very well for itself, arguably just as good as Amherst (even if the firm caliber is lower and it lacks MBB recruiting). The wealth of the student body goes a long way (less financial aid available than at W/A/B). You can see this reflected in the fact that although it isn't a target for some top firms, there are frequent one-off placements thanks to family connections and/or networking.
Bowdoin: Doesn't have the same NYC recruiting ties as the W/A/M. Same size as Amherst, though fewer students aim for these jobs. Has powerful alums on Wall Street (not just BB IBD, but also in IM/hedge funds; think Stanley Druckenmiller). Places very well at boutique banks and consultancies.
The Rest
Wesleyan: It is the Brown of the NESCAC IMO, and like Brown, it does just ok in terms of placement (particularly given its larger size relative to the other schools). Due to the culture fewer students aim for these jobs, plus the loyalty of the network is weaker than at some of the other schools listed.
Colby: There are some very loyal Colby alums in high places (Bob Diamond being a good, albeit outdated, example). Though the caliber of the student body doesn't rival A/W/M/B, it does quite well.
Bates: Doesn't do as poorly as you might think, even though it's the 3rd best LAC in Maine. The numbers of alums in IB/MC and VE/PE are similar to Colby.
Hamilton: I would argue it under performs given its location and wealthy student body.
Tufts: Jamie Dimon's a grad, and there's lots of successful alums out there. However, Tufts is a university and its network simply doesn't have the tight-knit thing going for it that other top LACs do. I suspect that due to its size and weaker network, grades play a larger role in who gets offers (though I could be wrong about that).
Trinity: Trinity tends to attract dumb jobs, though there lots of exceptions. Probably does as well as it does (which is to say, ok), due to students' family connections.
The Worst
Connecticut College: Should have been booted from the NESCAC long ago. Conn College alumns, feel free to tell me that I'm a dumb ass. I'm sure fate will have me dating a Conn College girl next.
Can you give me some more info on Midd? I might be going there next year and I want to know what to expect when I try to break in to IBD or consulting. You claim the school is not targeted by Bulge Brackets, but I talked to a student there who said they have recruiters from GS, MS, DB and a few others every year. Looking at their careers center calendar seems to confirm this. How difficult would it be to break in from there? Also, what about consulting? Unfortunately no OCR from MBB, so what strategy should I take if I decide on consulting?
Breaking in is relatively easy from Midd. I didn't go there myself, but have many friends who did. Also, I never claimed it wasn't a target for some banks. You'll see intermittent recruiting there from BB institutions, as that current student told you.
One approach that many students from Midd/Bowdoin/Brown/Wellesley take is the Tuck Bridge Program. It teaches you many of the fundamentals you need to break into finance and consulting, and once you're an alumnus you get pretty decent jobs emailed to you for the rest of your life. Definitely worth the 10k cost IMO.
If you want MBB from Midd, you'll likely need a GPA north of 3.8 and some luck during the networking process. That said, lots of boutique consultancies recruit there so you shouldn't have much trouble landing at one of those.
@ghettobanker" Probably too late with this post, but I just finished my process/took my offer from Midd. I'll agree with oregonducks to a degree, in that it is easier to break in from Middlebury than a straight non-target/than any NESCAC aside from Williams and Amherst. However, breaking in from Middlebury is not easy. In terms of numbers, we send a comparable amount into IB/similar as Williams and Amherst. However, we probably have 2-3x as many people who try for it as either school. Additionally, that number is a bit skewed, because people just refer to everything as IB. Within IB, Midd tends to place HORRIBLY in M&A groups, exceptionally well in ECM/DCM and does better with some industry groups than others. This is because Midd has become a semi-target mainly due to the strength of its network, which is usually confined to certain places within banks.
Midd falls into a very strange recruiting zone, where it is a straight target for some banks (GS as of recently, because a Midd alum is now co-head of IB), a 'consortium' school for other banks (such as MS and Barclays) who have strict quotas on the number of Midd kids they'll take, and a 'listing' school for others, such as WF, where they technically do OCR, but Midd kids get lowest priority regarding who they take/they oftentimes don't take any. The other huge thing with Midd is grade deflation. It definitely depends on the classes you take, but Middlebury tends to have more difficult grading standards than other schools, and GPAs tend to be at least 0.2 lower than some of our peers. Some banks, like GS, account for this and lower the bar for Midd (there are some GS Midd kids with 3.5s). Other banks don't care, and it is simply a way to weed kids out. Overall, the amount of work you'll have to do to break into IB from Midd, between keeping grades high and self-studying for interviews, is a lot more than most other schools.
It is also important to note that banking from Middlebury will, unless you fall into an affirmative action group (woman/black/latino/LGBT), require previous banking experience - aka a sophomore internship. This more/less limits IB at Midd to the wealthy and well connected (2/3 of the school), as there is VERY little going on for sophomore recruiting at Midd. Previously, the career center was fairly adamant on NOT helping sophomores beyond interview tips/resume tips, and discouraged them from using Midd's network for sophomore internships (which didn't stop plenty of people, but still...). The guy who ran it, Don Kjelleren, just left for Williams though, so that might change. Bottom line is though, if you're not in an affirmative action group or creme d'la creme, you're going to need to use your own connections for an (unpaid) internship OR dish out for one of the expensive pre-IB programs from Midd your sophomore summer.
If you want any additional help, PM me.
Pretty spot on here
What do you think of Bucknell, Colgate, and Lehigh? I also got into these three and I got extensions on committing to a school
I think Oregonducks covered it pretty well. The one correction I would add is that Williams isn't a McKinsey target, or at least it wasn't when I was there.
NESCAC are the best (Originally Posted: 03/05/2007)
I have read several forums "the most prestigious schools on wall street" and they are all drastically wrong. Well the critical numbers might come from these schools (Penn, MIT, Harvard) the schools the have the best acceptance rate and highest percentage of students working in BB are all NESCAC. EVERY NESCAC school (even Conn College) puts at least 10 kids in BB firms. Well this might seem like a lot think about the graduating class size 450-600. Well this percentage is lower then the "big" Ives you must take into account that these are LACs most people that attend these schools are out to save the world and want to live in Burlington VT when they graduate. Most of these schools only have 10 kids that want to get into banking. I know kids that went to low-end NESCACs and grad with 3.0 and now work at GS. There is a MD at every BB representing every NESCAC and they are willing to go to bat for students that approach them. Not to mention there are several NESCACs that are harder to get into then almost all the IVES.
Williams and Amherst are as good as any ivy. Conn, Middlebury, Trin, and Wes are on par with UVA and Berkeley. so whats ur point?
From the ghetto...
My point is everyone on these forums overlooks these schools as having any prestige on the street but in reality the students that apply from these schools have far better acceptance rates then any other school in the country. This is from a semi non-bias point of view (I went to LSE) but all my siblings went to NESCACs and had far more offers then I did on the street. Secondly having worked on the street for several years I have come to realize the reason that this is, is because all the kids from NESCACs are as intelligent if not more intelligent then IVY league students, and they ALL have checked their ego’s at the door. Which makes sense in reality, think about it, why would you go to a school with far less name recognition (nescac) over an Ivy when most of the kids at these schools could or did get into several Ivy League schools? The answer is these kids are working machines that never experienced any grade inflation during college and choose their school on the ability to receive very well rounded educations.
these schools are def. over looked on this site.
IMHO:
I would agree that Amherst and Williams (kids in the ballpark) could place as well as H/P/Y/S.
Wesleyan, Tufts, and Middlebury would be more in tune with "lower" Ivy's like Brown, Cornell, and UPenn non-business/non-econ majors.
I don't know if the 3 maine schools/Hamilton have kids that own closed-toe shoes, let alone would put on a suit to go to a ib interview.
I went to a Patriot League ranked in the middle of all these and would put us at the lower end of the Ivy-chain, although we too have a ton of alums in decision-making roles and carry a strong name...it seems like unless you got a BB intern, are econ w/ strong gpa, or have someone in your immediate circle...the BB will look past you.
Just from word of mouth (there's no list or anything so there might be more) I know of 15 kids who will be working at BB Banks in either IB or S&T (about 50/50) from Tufts next year. I've seen more and more kids interested in banking jobs every year and they have generally been doing very well. NESCAC schools have strong alumni networks, and the top kids there are usually ivy caliber. Also, kids are willing to put in the extra effort because they know they are not targets.
Hamilton does not place well. Only person I know who could get a job at a BB out of there had to do it through family connections. And I have a friend at Tufts that did manage to land a BB job, but it was not easy for him despite a 3.9 GPA. He said very few banks actually come to Tufts campus, and that he got no responses to the online applications he submitted. Ultimately, he got contact info for recruiters at all the BBs from his friend at an ivy, and he got 4 interviews after e-mailing every BB on the street..and he ended up with 2 offers.
Williams, Amherst, and to a lesser extent Middlebury do well though.
St. Lawrence places quite well and it's a wannabe NESCAC
NESCACs are bro as fuck
the only nescacs that are worth going to are
trincoll bros middlebury bros bowdoin bros
williams gets the best placement but it's the least bro
this argument kinda makes sense since NESCACS have the tightest alums who are willing to get their people into respective banks..i doubt many people on this forum know about them though
Is nobody pointing out the obvious NESCAC alumn: Jamie Dimon, CEO of JPMorgan, went to Tufts
I absolutely agree with the fact that students from these schools are often overlooked. If you go to one of the top-tier NESCACs (Amherst, Middlebury, Williams), you will have (or at least had until the recession, I'm not entirely sure how it is now) access to all major BBs who come on campus to recruit. In fact, if I remember correctly, Middlebury used to be the number one school that sent the most grads to Lehman, even before Harvard. In full disclosure, I went to one of the 3 mentioned schools, so my opinion may be biased, but generally the experience I have made is that NESCAC students who go into banking from often have not experienced grade inflation, had to work a lot harder in school to get good grades, and most importantly are more open-minded about wider issues.
While in absolute numbers, Ivy League networks are a lot bigger and easier to find, there are still plenty of other global division heads at top BBs who went to a NESCAC. And the one thing I have found is that the alumns are usually VERY approachable and willing to help, simply because it is a more tightly-knit group. I believe there will be a change over the next 10 years, after which there will be a lot more NESCAC people in Senior positions, simply because BBs haven't been recruiting at these schools too much 10 or 15 years ago (but a lot of Junior guys are now working on the street).
As someone who came from a NESCAC school that was not Amherst, Williams, or Middlebury, I can offer some insight. Campus Recruiting virtually does not exist for any BBs at any of these schools. There are plenty of alum scattered across banking, consulting, and the buy side; but it is entirely up to you to network and prove yourself. Couple schools have minor relationships with one or two banks (i.e. Barclays picks up a kid or two each year from both Bates and Colby), but by no means are you going to have a ton of recruiters on campus. You have to troll LinkedIn and work with career services to find alums that can help.
NESCAC Schools (Originally Posted: 04/26/2010)
so i hear a lot on this forum about the target schools, but i feel like the concept that the ivys are the end all be all has changed with the numbers of students going to college and with the size of the financial job market itself.
What do you guys think of the NESCAC schools? (new england colleges that most would put on par with the ivy league in terms of academics) How are these schools viewed by bankers and consultants? Anything about recruiting, placement, and prestige would be helpful
Tufts is a great school. As are Williams and Amherst. But as for being "on par with the ivy league in terms of academics"? I wouldn't go that far. The notion that the Ivy League (plus MIT/Stanford) is not the be-all-end-all anymore has become a favorite of high school guidance counselors, but it is simply not true. Yes, you can be very, very successful going to any school in the top 100 (or even outside the top 100 if you are lucky). But having gone through 4 years at an Ivy and watched friends go through school at every possible type of institution - other Ivies, "pseudo-Ivies", large state schools, small liberal arts schools (including a few NESCAC schools) - the divide in terms of academic environment is very much still present (perhaps even more so, as the "old boy" nature of some of the Ivies has deteriorated somewhat with co-education and generous financial aid offices). As for recruiting and alumni network on Wall St, I can't say, but I'm sure someone else on this board will have some insight on that.
Based on your previous posts you should PM me. From Chicago, NESCAC Alum, currently working in NYC.
Top NESCAC to MBB? (Originally Posted: 02/19/2013)
A lot of the talk regarding recruiting for MBB is about target/semi-target/non-target schools but how does going to a top NESCAC (Williams, Amherst, Midd) factor in. Though we're not targets, isn't that just due to the poor ROI in terms of sheer numbers?
Basically, could a 3.5 econ major with solid ECs and a consulting internship (albeit more operations) land interviews at MBB, OW, LEK, Parthenon, etc.?
at williams I know a lot of the top consulting firms came through OCR....not sure where you go and how things have changed since 2002 though...
Deloitte S&O should also be on your list
Top NESCAC --> TFA --> MBB? (Originally Posted: 02/19/2013)
Following grad I chose to do TFA thinking it would be an amazing experience and they assured me they had the alumni network/corporate partnerships enough to not set me back in terms of strategy consulting following grad.
Now, on the inside, I'm less sure. What is your sense of my likelihood of success if my goal is MBB? What advice do you have to improve my chances?
Graduated 3.5 (cumulative and major) w/ a econ degree from top NESCAC (Amherst, Williams, Midd), varsity athletics, consulting internship (not strategy)...should I take the GMAT? SATs 2240 - Math 770 Verbal 720 Writing 750
Interesting. Do you think it would help to have that on your resume if applying to Tuck for business school?
Not at all. It's a cheap way for them to make a couple grand.
OK, thanks for your input. Coming out of Midd, going to a program like that seems attractive because LACs including the NESCAC don't teach you the technicals. Is this accurate, or could you easily learn everything they teach you at Tuck using one of the WSO/BIWS modelling tutorials?
Delete
.
At my NESCAC school (not Bates [relevant for OP]) there were no recruiters that came, but we had alums from GS/BAML/Citi/DB/CS/UBS do resume screens around December break. A very interesting thing that I noticed was that a lot of the kids that do apply are ill prepared and don't make it past the phone screen. However, those that do put in the leg work to get a basic understanding of finance/had a previous internship do make it to a superday.
Harvey Specter's post is fairly accurate, although it might have just missed the mark with my school! Anyways, we usually end up sending 1-2 people to all of the BBs (various FO roles) and sometimes a handful to MM firms or EBs. Those that are serious about breaking in usually get it since not all of your classmates are gunning for the same job.
For the most part, NESCAC grads are loyal to their school; alums will want to help you and are a great resource for advice and guidance. If you're a top performer, have relevant internship experience and network you will be fine at Bates/any of the other NESCAC schools.
For those inquiring about the Tuck Bridge Program, I got in for my junior-senior summer but decided not to go. It seems like a great program, but wouldn't trump a good internship. If you have the cash to throw around and get in your sophomore summer then it'll stand out on your resume (assuming you have all the other qualifications) and you should be able to get an great internship somewhere.
Another thing to add is in addition to the great education you'll receive, it's also really easy to get involved and make an impact on campus through leadership roles, which are harder to obtain at a large university.
OP- Congrats on Bates and your next 4 years as a Bobcat.
NESCAC Alumni (Originally Posted: 04/20/2011)
Hey does anyone know of MM or boutiques that hire a lot of NESCAC alumni?
-Thanks
Only nescac laxers
it's really dependent upon the school's alumni representation on the street and their loyalty to the school and current students. the alumni at my school happen to be very loyal and always help out students here. i have 6 friends who will be working at BBs this summer or FT at my school of 2,000 students and half or maybe more got the jobs through connections. Network. Network. Network... and get a 3.5
He goes to SLU
.
What are my chances - Went to a NESCAC school (Originally Posted: 02/15/2007)
I went to a NESCAC school and then got into a non-target MBA program on the West Coast pretty much straight out of college. My graduation date is in December '07.
I have a good GPA, good GMAT and GRE scores, and the list of extracurriculars on my resume is pretty long. I have also done several internships (although none in IB, PE or related fields) and have research experience in quantitative/analytical fields.
I kind of know what my chances of getting into IB, PE or HF are, but I'm not willing to throw in the towel just yet. I applied to all the BB for summer internships, but haven't had much luck there. Is there anything still left on the market?
I don't mind if I get hired even as a first-year analyst after my MBA; I'm willing to leave my ego at the door, because I would really like a career in IB, PE or HF. In fact, I don't mind if I start with a BB or a MM or whatever. I just want to get my foot in the door. So I would like to hear any suggestions/comments that you might have. Thanks in advance.
Why did you go straight to your MBA?
My buddy is having problems find an internship because his pre-mba work wasn't considered tops?
And he worked for a listed company as an accountant.
Good luck.
I always wonder is going into MBA right out of undergrad (especially if it was a BBA) a big mistake in terms of finding another job...especially a banking one
Speaking from the perspective of a guy from a family of lawyers, my family would have pressured me to go to lawschool if i was undecided after undergrad.
I saw an article a few months back about a girl from Rice who got accepted into MIT MBA and I thought to myself that those top credentials would just look odd if she could only put under work experience something like Camp Counselor or some other bullshit? Maybe she worked a summer at a Fruitstand on the side of the highway or something? She pawned it off as a 'Start up'...
^ The idea is that you also do summer associate internships as an MBA, so it isn't that bad if you have relevant experience during your business school years.
OP, there must be some classmates at your business school who can help you out.
Trinity>Bates/Colby/Hamilton
Nescac (Originally Posted: 03/29/2013)
How's wall street recruiting at the shittier nescac schools like Trinity/Hamilton/Conn/Bates? Is it possible to network with Williams/Amherst grads since you're part of the same conference and they're all tiny schools? Would one of these schools be better than Emory Econ (not Goizueta)? Also please don't say "just get into Goizueta" because that isn't an option for me. All advice would be appreciated!
Absolutely not
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