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2/8/10

Hi all,
I would like to become super rich. But how do I do this?
How do I do this in these career paths:
Investment banking
Trading
Management Consulting
Accounting (How much do accountants make?)
Is anybody here super rich already and wants to share?
Thanks

Comments (261)

2/8/10

I don't think accounting should be on the list. In general I would rank it the following in terms of potential for high earnings:

  1. Trading (unlimited potential for earnings. If you look through the threads, there's a first year grad who made $400,000 thru trading)
  2. Investment Banking (more stable, great income) GS announced an avg of $770,000 bonus to their employees this summer.
  3. Management Consulting - once u get to Partner, you should be making 1-2 millions a year. Analyst is more of 70-85K. Associate is around 120K. Project Managers are around 300-500k.

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2/8/10
  1. If you put management consulting there I think you can include accounting. A lot of partners in the major cities in some departments pull in 1 - 2 mil I believed.

Big 4 Accounting Guide to Getting Hired Contains interview questions, exactly how to answer, resume guide, how to make an impact and a guide to the firms and service lines.

2/8/10

Do accountants receive bonus?

2/8/10

LOL at the topic first of all...

accountants should def not be in the discussion, they get paid around 40~50k for the first couple years, and i believe regular partners top out around 200~400k at most in the big 4 ( it takes around 11~13 years to become a partner in the firm)

Its not super rich, but its decently rich compare to the population
they do receive bonuses, but the the compensation structure is based on salary.

All of those jobs gets you a pretty good life, i think it should b more about what you want to do.

The more work you do, the richer you are :S
theres no free lunch, IB makes more cause they work 100+
accountants make less because leaving at office at 12~1 is consider late for them

2/8/10

I always hear about work-life balance when it comes to consulting--how can you ave a work life balance when you are always on the road. I guess they imply life without your wife/kids?

2/8/10

What a tool.

4/24/12
Newbie_banker:

What a tool.

I dont think he's a tool in any way. Sure, OP is abrupt and tactless, but deep down, isnt that what all of us are here for?? I dont believe the person who says they want to do IBD ONLY because they find it interesting... fuckouttaheree, I'd shovel shit if it gave the same salary progression.

Point being, calling him a tool reminds me of something an occupier would say.

4/25/12
Newbie_banker:

What a tool.

Come on now, wouldn't you agree we all want to make money?

The last question had me chuckling and SMHing at the same time.

2/8/10

Not trying to advocate accounting, because I know from experience that you should probably avoid it, especially if money is your primary motivation. But being a Big 4 partner is most definitely NOT where the money is, and there is SOME money out there. As balooshi said, it's very rare, but some accountants can earn in the millions. That said, you're far more likely to make millions elsewhere.

2/8/10
instapreneur:

Hi all,
I would like to become super rich. But how do I do this?
How do I do this in these career paths:
Investment banking
Trading
Management Consulting
Accounting
Is anybody here super rich already and wants to share?
Thanks

if super rich means 1B+ then neither

try starting up a tech company

or found the next facebook/google

2/8/10

@ Lord: That number was more like $500k at Goldman. Still great but not quite what you said (there was speculation of a number like that earlier in the year but in the final quarters they alloted much less $$$ for comp)

2/8/10

you can become rich by doing anything, as long as you like what you doing and are good at it

whether it would be starting the next playboy, selling food, or designing cloth.

2/8/10

Obviously, super rich is a subjective and relative term but I disagree that you can become rich by doing anything, as long as you like what you are doing and are good at it. Not all business are successful and not all ideas can be easily monetized. Entrepreneurship and trading are the two highest risk/ highest reward careers that I can think of. PE falls into that bucket as well to the extent that you are A) a partner at a big shor or B) you get in on the group floor w/ equity and your shop grows exponentially over time.

2/8/10

the big money in accounting related field is TAX!

boring as F*** but if you can save clients money, you will be well looked after compensation wise.

there are tax guys who make 7 figure bonuses i kid u not

2/8/10
sighm0an:

the big money in accounting related field is TAX!

boring as F*** but if you can save clients money, you will be well looked after compensation wise.

there are tax guys who make 7 figure bonuses i kid u not

Really? I always heard that tax was the most limiting field in accounting and that most people pursue audit, since there is a chance to exit to controller, etc. from there. What can you do in tax after working for a few years in it?

2/8/10

Most rich people share something in common: they take risks. They start their own business or funds, are in a client-facing role (i.e. have to get business), or have to take massive risks involving lots of capital (C-suite, traders, etc.). Bankers, accountants, and consultants don't take risks until much higher level where they have to get their own book of business.

2/8/10

You can become rich doing basically anything.

I know several people that have become rich and almost all of them came from completely different paths.

Just a few examples:

1) started a construction business, made tons of money
2) Started working in marketing research at a fortune 20 company, rose through the ranks and became president (retired now but net worth was north of $50 million last time I checked his stock options)
3) Started working in F500 finance dept, worked as treasurer, director, vp, and then finished his career off as CFO
4) Won the lottery (guess that's one way isn't it)
5) MD at an ibank

So there are many ways to do it. All of these individuals were extremely motivated and focused (even the lottery winner, he made a decent living, actually worked at a commercial bank).

If you are talking about what's the best way to be super rich in your 20's, well then that's a whole different question.

And by the way on that list none went to a "target" school.

2/8/10

just do trading, fixed hours and good bonuses

then set up ur own hedge fund etc

2/8/10

Easiest way to become super rich right now, low effort, "low" risk:

Move to Haiti, Sri Lanka, Somalia.
Just plain rich, move to Turkey, Cuba, Mexico, Indonesia, Thailand, South Africa.

Wealth is experienced mostly in relative terms to those who immediately surround you.

2/8/10

Agree with jbs, generally speaking there is no "career" that sets you on the path to being "super rich." What's going to make you "super-rich" is being really good at what you do, and being really lucky; in short, being an outlier (not to steal from Gladwell or anything).

You can get "super-rich" from being a hell of a trader, from being a great banker, being a top trial litigator, founding a company, winning the lottery, whatever.

However, that wasn't your question, as all of the previous responses ignored. The specific question was:

"How do I do this in these career paths:
Investment banking
Trading
Management Consulting
Accounting"

My answers won't be the best, and they're not informed by being "super-rich," but I can give you some idea of how to get there. For the purposes of this discussion, we'll define "super-rich" as a level of personal or family wealth that would have earned you a spot on the Forbes 500, which this year required $1.5bn in net assets.

As to how to progress through the careers you identified in order to get there, the answers going to be basically the same: you need to start your own firm, or get to the top of a major firm in the field, with significant equity participation. That path applies most to banking and trading; for management consulting, you're really going to have to transition to a F500 client as a CEO if you really want to make it to that upper-strata. Accounting probably has the worst odds of the careers you identified of making it to "super-rich" (not that any of the odds were that high to begin with), but you're probably best served with the same basic strategy as at the others. I imagine it's possible to make the list as a CFO, but not going to be easy.

2/8/10

facebook 2.0

2/8/10

So I guess trading is the only way I can become super rich?
Then why do you people do the other jobs?
If I'm gonna spend my twenties in work, I might as well become super rich, but I don't think I can do that even with banking or even trading probably. And consultants and accountants don't make any money. Why do people do those jobs then? What a waste.
Eh, I better have the next Facebook going before a have to start looking for jobs.
Also, is anybody here even kinda rich?

2/8/10
instapreneur:

So I guess trading is the only way I can become super rich?
Then why do you people do the other jobs?
If I'm gonna spend my twenties in work, I might as well become super rich, but I don't think I can do that even with banking or even trading probably. And consultants and accountants don't make any money. Why do people do those jobs then? What a waste.
Eh, I better have the next Facebook going before a have to start looking for jobs.
Also, is anybody here even kinda rich?

first, trading is not the only way to be super rich (if there were only one way, i would say its entrepreneurship)
you can also do really badly in trading
and money isnt the only reason people do certain work. its not a waste to be a consultant (or a doctor, social worker, musician, or anything else for that matter). dont take whatever job pays the most; its the worst reason to take a job, and you wont be as happy as someone making less but might enjoy it more/has time to actually spend it.

2/8/10

Well, I left out entrepreneurship because that's the obvious way.

People become doctors because they like science and want to help the sick - there's a lot of rewards that come with that job outside of money. People don't become social workers for the money. Most musicians probably dream of making it big.

Kids grow up dreaming of being doctors but not bankers. People become traders and bankers for money. Is that incorrect? But it doesn't even seem like they make that much money. So that's a waste then. And why would I become a consultant or accountant then if I make even less money in those jobs?

2/8/10

Has to be a troll.

2/8/10

go buy some lottery than, too bad if you can't find your passion

heck, just borrow loads of money and day trade at home if you wanna be super rich and not work at all.
you'll either end up super rich, or super in debt.

2/13/10

What is super rich? IMO anything less than 1 trillion dollar is not super rich. You cannot be a major player without less than 1 trillion in your hand.

BTW the following tips might be helpful: (From my reading about various "super-rich" guys)

Do some buisness.
Try to link with some powerful people (i.e. some presidents of poor African countries) pick from them someone with the greatest potential and serve him well.
The rest depends on luck and your ambition and your ability to control it.

Good luck!

2/19/10

marry well

2/19/10

Check out the CNBC special titled "Untold Wealth: The Rise of the Super Rich"??? You can watch it on Hulu. (Even if it doesn't help you figure anything out, it's entertaining and I highly recommend it.)

5/2/10

If you want to be super rich then I suggest you think outside the frame of being a worker and instead being a boss...of your own company. 9 of of 10 people with more than 10 million are self employed or have made their riches through their own businesses.

It may be risky starting your own company as opposed to working for a big bank, but with higher risk comes higher return

My finance blog: AdviceAboutFinance.com

Twitter @samleefinance

5/2/10
epoch707:

If you want to be super rich then I suggest you think outside the frame of being a worker and instead being a boss...of your own company. 9 of of 10 people with more than 10 million are self employed or have made their riches through their own businesses.

It may be risky starting your own company as opposed to working for a big bank, but with higher risk comes higher return

Good advice.

5/2/10

if you're a woman, get a tit job, libo and dye your hair blonde. then go to some fancy bar and have rich guys hit on you.

9/10/13

I think brunettes are more popular these days.

The Auto Show

1/16/13

One Simple Thing. First Thing's First. Don't take Advice from people who have never done it. I mean how many of these people here telling you What To Do and How To Do It when they haven't even done it yet themselves. How many here are actually self-made billionaires? It's like taking advice from Relationship Counselors who can't even get a date to save his or her life. It's ridiculous. People dispensing advice freely just because they can ASS-U-ME.

1/16/13
1/16/13

How to be filthy rich:

Go to Ivy League School
Major in Poli Sci/Econ/International Relations
Get a 3.5+
Go to Officer Candidate School
Join a branch of JSOC(SFOD, Green Berets, DEVGRU)
6 years spec ops combat experience
Take an analyst role at CIA (preferrably SAD/SOG paramilitary ops)
Kick ass, take names, get contacts, network with the true elite (6 years)
Become known as a problem solver/facilitator
Start import/export firm
You know the rest
Tax-Free Income for life.

OR

Start your own business, sell it.

"Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin

9/8/13

deleted

9/10/13

Get 1 million people to give you a dollar, every year.

9/11/13

Pretend to be gay, marry some old decrepit billionaire and wait for him to die.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

Define "easy" and "rich"

9/11/13

I think the real question is "is it easy to be happy"...

9/11/13

"If it were easy, everyone would be doing it"

9/11/13

....no, it's not (in my books, rich = 100 million + / year)

9/11/13

It used to be easier. Now, market is flooded with brilliant entrepreneurs and financial wizards ... so competitions izzz onnnn

9/11/13

It's a "simple" matter to become rich, but it's not "easy". What I mean is, there's a formula you can follow that is relatively straightforward and duplicable (making it simple), but it often requires life-long dedication and a single-mindedness of purpose (not easy over the long run).

9/11/13
Edmundo Braverman:

It's a "simple" matter to become rich, but it's not "easy". What I mean is, there's a formula you can follow that is relatively straightforward and duplicable (making it simple), but it often requires life-long dedication and a single-mindedness of purpose (not easy over the long run).

Yep.

Trying to be rich is like trying to develop the physique that Christian Bale had in American Psycho. There is a recipe for success (diet and exercise). What separates the failures and successes is dedication.

man made the money, money never made the man

9/11/13

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

All things are possible with Him i have to deal

9/11/13
corsaire:

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

The last two are complete BS. What a fool you have to be to subscribe to that asshat-ery. I happen to be friends with a few pros (of whom 2 are NFL players and one was just drafted top 10 to a team in a crappy city in the NBA). Since I've known them (since I was 12 and 13) they've worked harder at their craft than did most people I know in my current and previous profession whilst coming up. They sure got "lucky" though right? Because it's pure luck that motivated the two in the NFL to spend their summers in the sun and humidity running routes and covering each other on the football field at an age when most dudes can't keep their dicks outta their hands right? It's only hard work when it's done in a library or in an office right? It's not hard work when you spend everyday after school (elementary) shooting multiple 100's of jumpers because you decide you want to play at the highest level professionally right? Of course not! It's all luck! What buffoonery! I really hope that you were kidding or using hyperbole there b/c comments like the last two of yours have certain overtones that aren't quite positive (hint, hint).

9/11/13
back_that_thang_up:
corsaire:

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

The last two are complete BS. What a fool you have to be to subscribe to that asshat-ery. I happen to be friends with a few pros (of whom 2 are NFL players and one was just drafted top 10 to a team in a crappy city in the NBA). Since I've known them (since I was 12 and 13) they've worked harder at their craft than did most people I know in my current and previous profession whilst coming up. They sure got "lucky" though right? Because it's pure luck that motivated the two in the NFL to spend their summers in the sun and humidity running routes and covering each other on the football field at an age when most dudes can't keep their dicks outta their hands right? It's only hard work when it's done in a library or in an office right? It's not hard work when you spend everyday after school (elementary) shooting multiple 100's of jumpers because you decide you want to play at the highest level professionally right? Of course not! It's all luck! What buffoonery! I really hope that you were kidding or using hyperbole there b/c comments like the last two of yours have certain overtones that aren't quite positive (hint, hint).

I have no connections to actual professional athletes but I am an avid sports fan who reads lots of articles and follows sports closely. I can say for sure that those that make it really busted their butts to get there.

Do you think they always wanted to be in the gym constantly so they could be the best in HS? When they get to college it's even harder. Those guys spend ridiculous amounts of time working out during the summer, often taking summer school. When they get to the school year, they get to practice for hours each day and then they still have to study/go to class/try to live a balanced life. You think that's easy? If it's so easy then why is the NBA so elite? Do you think even making it to play professional ball in Europe is easy? Heck no. I envy professional players, but I often wonder, even if I was born with the genes that would make me 6'-6' 5"...would I really have what it takes? To give up every summer of my high school career to play in AAU leagues, to then only give up my summers in college to play in summer leagues/workout/take summer school, to merely get a chance at the pros? I don't even want to know the statistical chance of making it to the professional level and having a decent career. Sure there are some athletes who don't have to try very hard until they reach the professional level, but lets not generalize and say that most athletes are lazy. It wouldn't surprise me if the people who say stuff like that were never athletes themselves. I ran cross country/indoor & outdoor track for all 4 years of high school and ran every summer to stay in shape. Let me say that it was extremely hard on both my body and my mind. The whole concept of never really letting yourself slack is one that is hard to really grasp without first hand experiencing it. I cannot imagine ever running professionally. There is someone doing that from my a high school in my area and I respect him greatly. He ran one of the fastest times in the 1500 m run a few years ago. After suffering back problems he has returned to run that same time in his first major race back. Weak? Lazy? HA. Back problems or not, he has a stronger backbone then most of us would care to admit. He's earned every bit of being pro.

9/11/13
GoIllini:
back_that_thang_up:
corsaire:

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

The last two are complete BS. What a fool you have to be to subscribe to that asshat-ery. I happen to be friends with a few pros (of whom 2 are NFL players and one was just drafted top 10 to a team in a crappy city in the NBA). Since I've known them (since I was 12 and 13) they've worked harder at their craft than did most people I know in my current and previous profession whilst coming up. They sure got "lucky" though right? Because it's pure luck that motivated the two in the NFL to spend their summers in the sun and humidity running routes and covering each other on the football field at an age when most dudes can't keep their dicks outta their hands right? It's only hard work when it's done in a library or in an office right? It's not hard work when you spend everyday after school (elementary) shooting multiple 100's of jumpers because you decide you want to play at the highest level professionally right? Of course not! It's all luck! What buffoonery! I really hope that you were kidding or using hyperbole there b/c comments like the last two of yours have certain overtones that aren't quite positive (hint, hint).

I have no connections to actual professional athletes but I am an avid sports fan who reads lots of articles and follows sports closely. I can say for sure that those that make it really busted their butts to get there.

Do you think they always wanted to be in the gym constantly so they could be the best in HS? When they get to college it's even harder. Those guys spend ridiculous amounts of time working out during the summer, often taking summer school. When they get to the school year, they get to practice for hours each day and then they still have to study/go to class/try to live a balanced life. You think that's easy? If it's so easy then why is the NBA so elite? Do you think even making it to play professional ball in Europe is easy? Heck no. I envy professional players, but I often wonder, even if I was born with the genes that would make me 6'-6' 5"...would I really have what it takes? To give up every summer of my high school career to play in AAU leagues, to then only give up my summers in college to play in summer leagues/workout/take summer school, to merely get a chance at the pros? I don't even want to know the statistical chance of making it to the professional level and having a decent career. Sure there are some athletes who don't have to try very hard until they reach the professional level, but lets not generalize and say that most athletes are lazy. It wouldn't surprise me if the people who say stuff like that were never athletes themselves. I ran cross country/indoor & outdoor track for all 4 years of high school and ran every summer to stay in shape. Let me say that it was extremely hard on both my body and my mind. The whole concept of never really letting yourself slack is one that is hard to really grasp without first hand experiencing it. I cannot imagine ever running professionally. There is someone doing that from my a high school in my area and I respect him greatly. He ran one of the fastest times in the 1500 m run a few years ago. After suffering back problems he has returned to run that same time in his first major race back. Weak? Lazy? HA. Back problems or not, he has a stronger backbone then most of us would care to admit. He's earned every bit of being pro.

Dude we agree completely. I was being sarcastic in post responding to that asshat's assertion that pro athletes are pros because they gotten "lucky".
Yes, playing basketball in Europe is unbelievably difficult. A guy who don't know that well but went to my high school a year before I got there is playing professionally in Spain which is the cream of crop as far as European pro ball goes (along with Italy and Greece). He won freshman of the year in his conference when he went to a MAJOR D-1 school and was a heck of a college. He's playing in Spain and sitting the bench to boot. It's a really difficult profession and the achievement of success in it should not be scoffed at by little bitches writing anonymously on WSO.

9/11/13
back_that_thang_up:
GoIllini:
back_that_thang_up:
corsaire:

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

The last two are complete BS. What a fool you have to be to subscribe to that asshat-ery. I happen to be friends with a few pros (of whom 2 are NFL players and one was just drafted top 10 to a team in a crappy city in the NBA). Since I've known them (since I was 12 and 13) they've worked harder at their craft than did most people I know in my current and previous profession whilst coming up. They sure got "lucky" though right? Because it's pure luck that motivated the two in the NFL to spend their summers in the sun and humidity running routes and covering each other on the football field at an age when most dudes can't keep their dicks outta their hands right? It's only hard work when it's done in a library or in an office right? It's not hard work when you spend everyday after school (elementary) shooting multiple 100's of jumpers because you decide you want to play at the highest level professionally right? Of course not! It's all luck! What buffoonery! I really hope that you were kidding or using hyperbole there b/c comments like the last two of yours have certain overtones that aren't quite positive (hint, hint).

I have no connections to actual professional athletes but I am an avid sports fan who reads lots of articles and follows sports closely. I can say for sure that those that make it really busted their butts to get there.

Do you think they always wanted to be in the gym constantly so they could be the best in HS? When they get to college it's even harder. Those guys spend ridiculous amounts of time working out during the summer, often taking summer school. When they get to the school year, they get to practice for hours each day and then they still have to study/go to class/try to live a balanced life. You think that's easy? If it's so easy then why is the NBA so elite? Do you think even making it to play professional ball in Europe is easy? Heck no. I envy professional players, but I often wonder, even if I was born with the genes that would make me 6'-6' 5"...would I really have what it takes? To give up every summer of my high school career to play in AAU leagues, to then only give up my summers in college to play in summer leagues/workout/take summer school, to merely get a chance at the pros? I don't even want to know the statistical chance of making it to the professional level and having a decent career. Sure there are some athletes who don't have to try very hard until they reach the professional level, but lets not generalize and say that most athletes are lazy. It wouldn't surprise me if the people who say stuff like that were never athletes themselves. I ran cross country/indoor & outdoor track for all 4 years of high school and ran every summer to stay in shape. Let me say that it was extremely hard on both my body and my mind. The whole concept of never really letting yourself slack is one that is hard to really grasp without first hand experiencing it. I cannot imagine ever running professionally. There is someone doing that from my a high school in my area and I respect him greatly. He ran one of the fastest times in the 1500 m run a few years ago. After suffering back problems he has returned to run that same time in his first major race back. Weak? Lazy? HA. Back problems or not, he has a stronger backbone then most of us would care to admit. He's earned every bit of being pro.

Dude we agree completely. I was being sarcastic in post responding to that asshat's assertion that pro athletes are pros because they gotten "lucky".
Yes, playing basketball in Europe is unbelievably difficult. A guy who don't know that well but went to my high school a year before I got there is playing professionally in Spain which is the cream of crop as far as European pro ball goes (along with Italy and Greece). He won freshman of the year in his conference when he went to a MAJOR D-1 school and was a heck of a college. He's playing in Spain and sitting the bench to boot. It's a really difficult profession and the achievement of success in it should not be scoffed at by little bitches writing anonymously on WSO.

Haha yes I knew what you were saying in your initial post. I was just expanding your thoughts to bash the idiots who think pro athletes get to where they are based on luck. ;)

9/11/13
GoIllini:
back_that_thang_up:
GoIllini:
back_that_thang_up:
corsaire:

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

The last two are complete BS. What a fool you have to be to subscribe to that asshat-ery. I happen to be friends with a few pros (of whom 2 are NFL players and one was just drafted top 10 to a team in a crappy city in the NBA). Since I've known them (since I was 12 and 13) they've worked harder at their craft than did most people I know in my current and previous profession whilst coming up. They sure got "lucky" though right? Because it's pure luck that motivated the two in the NFL to spend their summers in the sun and humidity running routes and covering each other on the football field at an age when most dudes can't keep their dicks outta their hands right? It's only hard work when it's done in a library or in an office right? It's not hard work when you spend everyday after school (elementary) shooting multiple 100's of jumpers because you decide you want to play at the highest level professionally right? Of course not! It's all luck! What buffoonery! I really hope that you were kidding or using hyperbole there b/c comments like the last two of yours have certain overtones that aren't quite positive (hint, hint).

I have no connections to actual professional athletes but I am an avid sports fan who reads lots of articles and follows sports closely. I can say for sure that those that make it really busted their butts to get there.

Do you think they always wanted to be in the gym constantly so they could be the best in HS? When they get to college it's even harder. Those guys spend ridiculous amounts of time working out during the summer, often taking summer school. When they get to the school year, they get to practice for hours each day and then they still have to study/go to class/try to live a balanced life. You think that's easy? If it's so easy then why is the NBA so elite? Do you think even making it to play professional ball in Europe is easy? Heck no. I envy professional players, but I often wonder, even if I was born with the genes that would make me 6'-6' 5"...would I really have what it takes? To give up every summer of my high school career to play in AAU leagues, to then only give up my summers in college to play in summer leagues/workout/take summer school, to merely get a chance at the pros? I don't even want to know the statistical chance of making it to the professional level and having a decent career. Sure there are some athletes who don't have to try very hard until they reach the professional level, but lets not generalize and say that most athletes are lazy. It wouldn't surprise me if the people who say stuff like that were never athletes themselves. I ran cross country/indoor & outdoor track for all 4 years of high school and ran every summer to stay in shape. Let me say that it was extremely hard on both my body and my mind. The whole concept of never really letting yourself slack is one that is hard to really grasp without first hand experiencing it. I cannot imagine ever running professionally. There is someone doing that from my a high school in my area and I respect him greatly. He ran one of the fastest times in the 1500 m run a few years ago. After suffering back problems he has returned to run that same time in his first major race back. Weak? Lazy? HA. Back problems or not, he has a stronger backbone then most of us would care to admit. He's earned every bit of being pro.

Dude we agree completely. I was being sarcastic in post responding to that asshat's assertion that pro athletes are pros because they gotten "lucky".
Yes, playing basketball in Europe is unbelievably difficult. A guy who don't know that well but went to my high school a year before I got there is playing professionally in Spain which is the cream of crop as far as European pro ball goes (along with Italy and Greece). He won freshman of the year in his conference when he went to a MAJOR D-1 school and was a heck of a college. He's playing in Spain and sitting the bench to boot. It's a really difficult profession and the achievement of success in it should not be scoffed at by little bitches writing anonymously on WSO.

Haha yes I knew what you were saying in your initial post. I was just expanding your thoughts to bash the idiots who think pro athletes get to where they are based on luck. ;)

I agree ^^^ with the above assertion. Professional sports is tough. I quit after high school, because realistically I don't have the genes nor did I want to do it anymore.

Outside of the few older posters, one reason I don't frequent these forums, is because it's seems its made up lots of aggro-nerds, with a chip on their should. What is with crap: no guts no glory? Yeah, plugging away at that calculator is glory. Networking takes guts. 100+ million a year!? to be considered rich! I have a pretty big ego and expect a lot from myself, but 100 million a year. Yes it's fuzzy math (don't cur enough to do Interest calculation), but 10 million in the bank with 3% return C/D will net you around 300,000 a year sans taxes, etc. That's more than enough to live in most places. I figure 20 million liquid with 5 million house(s), and a few million here or there will get me into JPM Ultra High Worth club. That's good enough for me.

Hug It Out

9/11/13
Ari_Gold:
GoIllini:
back_that_thang_up:
GoIllini:
back_that_thang_up:
corsaire:

Rich = Player on the NFL team of your choice.

Wealthy= OWner of the damn NFL team of your choice.

Rich= Employee though highly paid still subject to crap such begging for raise i.e lockouts etc

Wealthy= Hustle all day everyday doesnt whine for a raise cuz he got multiple streams of income supporting his lifestyle.

Rich= Dumb jock that may accidentally get lucky on some thing sports etc

Wealthy= Hard working mutha who planned shit and did 10X the work to get to where he got

The last two are complete BS. What a fool you have to be to subscribe to that asshat-ery. I happen to be friends with a few pros (of whom 2 are NFL players and one was just drafted top 10 to a team in a crappy city in the NBA). Since I've known them (since I was 12 and 13) they've worked harder at their craft than did most people I know in my current and previous profession whilst coming up. They sure got "lucky" though right? Because it's pure luck that motivated the two in the NFL to spend their summers in the sun and humidity running routes and covering each other on the football field at an age when most dudes can't keep their dicks outta their hands right? It's only hard work when it's done in a library or in an office right? It's not hard work when you spend everyday after school (elementary) shooting multiple 100's of jumpers because you decide you want to play at the highest level professionally right? Of course not! It's all luck! What buffoonery! I really hope that you were kidding or using hyperbole there b/c comments like the last two of yours have certain overtones that aren't quite positive (hint, hint).

I have no connections to actual professional athletes but I am an avid sports fan who reads lots of articles and follows sports closely. I can say for sure that those that make it really busted their butts to get there.

Do you think they always wanted to be in the gym constantly so they could be the best in HS? When they get to college it's even harder. Those guys spend ridiculous amounts of time working out during the summer, often taking summer school. When they get to the school year, they get to practice for hours each day and then they still have to study/go to class/try to live a balanced life. You think that's easy? If it's so easy then why is the NBA so elite? Do you think even making it to play professional ball in Europe is easy? Heck no. I envy professional players, but I often wonder, even if I was born with the genes that would make me 6'-6' 5"...would I really have what it takes? To give up every summer of my high school career to play in AAU leagues, to then only give up my summers in college to play in summer leagues/workout/take summer school, to merely get a chance at the pros? I don't even want to know the statistical chance of making it to the professional level and having a decent career. Sure there are some athletes who don't have to try very hard until they reach the professional level, but lets not generalize and say that most athletes are lazy. It wouldn't surprise me if the people who say stuff like that were never athletes themselves. I ran cross country/indoor & outdoor track for all 4 years of high school and ran every summer to stay in shape. Let me say that it was extremely hard on both my body and my mind. The whole concept of never really letting yourself slack is one that is hard to really grasp without first hand experiencing it. I cannot imagine ever running professionally. There is someone doing that from my a high school in my area and I respect him greatly. He ran one of the fastest times in the 1500 m run a few years ago. After suffering back problems he has returned to run that same time in his first major race back. Weak? Lazy? HA. Back problems or not, he has a stronger backbone then most of us would care to admit. He's earned every bit of being pro.

Dude we agree completely. I was being sarcastic in post responding to that asshat's assertion that pro athletes are pros because they gotten "lucky".
Yes, playing basketball in Europe is unbelievably difficult. A guy who don't know that well but went to my high school a year before I got there is playing professionally in Spain which is the cream of crop as far as European pro ball goes (along with Italy and Greece). He won freshman of the year in his conference when he went to a MAJOR D-1 school and was a heck of a college. He's playing in Spain and sitting the bench to boot. It's a really difficult profession and the achievement of success in it should not be scoffed at by little bitches writing anonymously on WSO.

Haha yes I knew what you were saying in your initial post. I was just expanding your thoughts to bash the idiots who think pro athletes get to where they are based on luck. ;)

I agree ^^^ with the above assertion. Professional sports is tough. I quit after high school, because realistically I don't have the genes nor did I want to do it anymore.

Outside of the few older posters, one reason I don't frequent these forums, is because it's seems its made up lots of aggro-nerds, with a chip on their should. What is with crap: no guts no glory? Yeah, plugging away at that calculator is glory. Networking takes guts. 100+ million a year!? to be considered rich! I have a pretty big ego and expect a lot from myself, but 100 million a year. Yes it's fuzzy math (don't cur enough to do Interest calculation), but 10 million in the bank with 3% return C/D will net you around 300,000 a year sans taxes, etc. That's more than enough to live in most places. I figure 20 million liquid with 5 million house(s), and a few million here or there will get me into JPM Ultra High Worth club. That's good enough for me.

Having 10 mil in the bank and making 300k off of it a year would be awesome for me.

9/11/13

pretty fucking easy to make money, if you are into doing illegal shit. dealing drugs is a pretty fast way if you don't get caught.

also met a guy who used to pimp part-time. think east european college student. hung around shady older guys who couldn't speak english. he got them some action and he got paid. an extra 10k every few weeks/months.

if you run in the right circles, it's near impossible to get caught, but i'm too risk-averse (nor do i think i have what it takes),

9/11/13
guts:

pretty fucking easy to make money, if you are into doing illegal shit. dealing drugs is a pretty fast way if you don't get caught.

also met a guy who used to pimp part-time. think east european college student. hung around shady older guys who couldn't speak english. he got them some action and he got paid. an extra 10k every few weeks/months.

if you run in the right circles, it's near impossible to get caught, but i'm too risk-averse (nor do i think i have what it takes),

No guts, no glory...

9/11/13

I think pumping and dumping stocks is hands down the easiest way to make money. You could easily make 70k in a week blasting emails and filling forums.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

9/11/13

Going to a top company (Goldman, Hedge Fund, Exxon whatever) doesn't make you rich.

Being rich means >50 Mio. $ for me.

Even if you are really intelligent and work as a fine analyst at HF, you will never be rich.

Working in a top company as a good employee and hoping to make more money than any other would be way more difficult than owning your selfmade business.

If you want to be richt, f*** working as an employee. Start your own business.

9/11/13
Kuggi2011:

Going to a top company (Goldman, Hedge Fund, Exxon whatever) doesn't make you rich.

Being rich means >50 Mio. $ for me.

Even if you are really intelligent and work as a fine analyst at HF, you will never be rich.

Working in a top company as a good employee and hoping to make more money than any other would be way more difficult than owning your selfmade business.

If you want to be richt, f*** working as an employee. Start your own business.

Working at a top hedge fund is nothing like working at Exxon. $50 million? There are traders at hedge funds (and at Goldman, which you also mentioned) who can take that home in a single year.

9/11/13

It is most definitely NOT easy to get rich. Getting rich will require years upon years of toil and dedication. A lifetime of work.

As others have noted, the easiest way to become truly rich is to own a business. Obviously that career path has a different risk profile.

9/11/13

Problem with starting a business is when people become entrepreneurs just for the sake of it. I think a much more intelligent approach is to get involved in something you're passionate about, hang in the industry to mature and get a sense of it (get a feel of the market opportunity, etc), and then make a move when it's the right time.

9/11/13
CanadianPositiveCarry:

Problem with starting a business is when people become entrepreneurs just for the sake of it. I think a much more intelligent approach is to get involved in something you're passionate about, hang in the industry to mature and get a sense of it (get a feel of the market opportunity, etc), and then make a move when it's the right time.

Agree 1000%

ALSO: In the words of L. Ron. Hubbard, ''If you ever want to make a whole lot of money, start your own religion''

Get busy living

9/11/13
GutShot:

What do people think?

As easy as asking asinine questions on wso

9/11/13

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9/11/13

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9/11/13

The only way you earn a great deal of money before being in a senior position somewhere is by being a star at something, anything: trading, singing, acting, a startup...

9/11/13

Are you suggesting that you need to earn 500k+ to afford a mortgage?

If you want to get paid more than the average chump, become damn good at doing something(as in much better than everyone else), develop an widespread reputation, and the money should follow.

This is the formula for success in any industry.

"It's not that I'm so smart, it's just that I stay with problems longer." - Albert Einstein

9/11/13

99% of people work under the following rule: 1 unit of compensation for 1 unit of labour (1:1 ratio). So for example, if you get paid hourly you do 1 hour of work for a set wage. As long as you work under the 1:1 ratio you will never be rich. Even pro athelets that work under 1:1 (1 season: 1 salary) will never become really rich.

The key to wealth is to improve the ratio in your favour. Example, if I do 1 year of research on buying a rental house and that house pays you rent for 10 years your ratio is 10:1.

The poor and middle class only get compensated once per one unit of labour, the rich get compensated many times for 1 unit of labour.

9/11/13

Ovechkin08:
Even pro athelets that work under 1:1 (1 season: 1 salary) will never become really rich.

I guess it depends on your definition of really rich then. Sure, you won't make a billion just from your salary but there are plenty of athletes who will make 9 figures before endorsements. I'd say that's really rich.

This to all my hatin' folks seeing me getting guac right now..

9/11/13

half of retired NFL players go bankrupt...

Cruncharoo:
Ovechkin08:
Even pro athelets that work under 1:1 (1 season: 1 salary) will never become really rich.

I guess it depends on your definition of really rich then. Sure, you won't make a billion just from your salary but there are plenty of athletes who will make 9 figures before endorsements. I'd say that's really rich.

"...the art of good business, is being a good middle man, putting people togeather. It's all about honor and respect."

9/11/13

Ovechkin08:
99% of people work under the following rule: 1 unit of compensation for 1 unit of labour (1:1 ratio). So for example, if you get paid hourly you do 1 hour of work for a set wage. As long as you work under the 1:1 ratio you will never be rich. Even pro athelets that work under 1:1 (1 season: 1 salary) will never become really rich.

The key to wealth is to improve the ratio in your favour. Example, if I do 1 year of research on buying a rental house and that house pays you rent for 10 years your ratio is 10:1.

The poor and middle class only get compensated once per one unit of labour, the rich get compensated many times for 1 unit of labour.

This is the old scalable profession argument. See NN Taleb for a rebuttal (3rd result, pg. 28):
http://books.google.com/books?id=7wMuF4A4XF8C&lpg=...

9/11/13

lseactuary:
I have been researching salaries and it seems like the 'net income' doesn't vary much regardless of the 'Front Office' division you work in.

IBD pays more to juniors, but you can end up spending more on costs to keep yourself awake! Even with bonuses there is only so much you can do. Say that max you will earn, in this economy as a junior, is $300k.

PE/VC salaries are great too but, at junior levels, I haven't seen anything above $400k, even after completing an MBA.

Firms with great benefits (free food, gym membership) will cut some expenses, but then they pay 'less' than IBD/PE/VC.

Don't get me wrong. These divisions pay very well compared to the median salary, and if you do well/progress, you can do well for yourself.

How do you afford a mortgage? How do you earn $500k+ before turning 30-40?
Can you actually ever get rich through a job?

The only people I know who are rich (as in $1m+ per year) are people who trade their own portfolio or are in senior positions (think: Director +). Is there no other way of working hard and getting rich earlier on through a job?

It would be good to get some opinions on this.

You can make director in your late 20's/early 30's, still pretty junior in age. If you're looking for $500k/year before 25 without trading your own portfolio then um...take some leveraged bets on real estate or something, or become a very successful entrepneur. Can you get rich through a job? Sure, C levels make 8 figures.

If you're looking to go the finance route, I might propose the 'Meriwether Two-Step':

Start hedge fund
Go long tail risk, raking it in for years
Get obliterated by once in a million year, unforeseeable act of god disaster
Repeat every 5-10 years

P.S. if you think you need $500k/year to afford a decent house then you're way, way off.

9/11/13

You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

9/11/13

notamonkey:
You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

You are a wise, wise person.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

9/11/13

Yes it is a good answer.

9/11/13

I've been thinking a lot about income requirements lately. It adds up.

1 kid in private school: 50k per year.

1.5 million house (reasonable in SF/NYC/Boston): 66k in mortgage payments (assuming 20% down), plus maintenance and taxes

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

To get this sort of income without driving yourself insane (can you imagine trading for 45 years?) it seems like you should get to a senior level position in a stable business line with reasonable hours. Senior analyst in ER, research director at a mutual fund, MD in a Public Finance group, etc. Then just save early and aggressively.

But ultimately:

notamonkey:
You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

You need equity in your own business, whatever that may be.

9/11/13

West Coast rainmaker:

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

Your assumptions were good for upper-middle class NYC lifestyle until this point. Assuming your place is paid off, why in the world do you need $15m. That's almost $500k in annuity income a year, at 3% no drawdown! $4-5mm plus your home is much more reasonable.

Also, the private school thing is why people move to NJ/CT. I personally am a big believer in religious education, at least through high school, and then let the kid decide if they want to go to boarding school, apply to gifted schools or go to an uptown day school based on their preferences and interests.

9/11/13

> I personally am a big believer in religious education

Isn't this an oxymoron?

"My dear, descended from the apes! Let us hope it is not true, but if it is, let us pray that it will not become generally known."

9/11/13

meabric:
West Coast rainmaker:

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

Your assumptions were good for upper-middle class NYC lifestyle until this point. Assuming your place is paid off, why in the world do you need $15m. That's almost $500k in annuity income a year, at 3% no drawdown! $4-5mm plus your home is much more reasonable.

Also, the private school thing is why people move to NJ/CT. I personally am a big believer in religious education, at least through high school, and then let the kid decide if they want to go to boarding school, apply to gifted schools or go to an uptown day school based on their preferences and interests.

That's the idea. Accumulate a big pile of money you can grow faster than inflation even after paying for living expenses.

9/11/13

West Coast rainmaker:
meabric:
West Coast rainmaker:

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

Your assumptions were good for upper-middle class NYC lifestyle until this point. Assuming your place is paid off, why in the world do you need $15m. That's almost $500k in annuity income a year, at 3% no drawdown! $4-5mm plus your home is much more reasonable.

Also, the private school thing is why people move to NJ/CT. I personally am a big believer in religious education, at least through high school, and then let the kid decide if they want to go to boarding school, apply to gifted schools or go to an uptown day school based on their preferences and interests.

That's the idea. Accumulate a big pile of money you can grow faster than inflation even after paying for living expenses.

Why would you need that much? You could live a very nice lifestyle in a major city and with a family and still growing the chunk of it only 1/3-1/5 of that amount. Most families could probably live well on even 1/10 of that amount if you already own your home and don't have private schooling (why on Earth would you do that unless there were no other options?).

9/11/13

West Coast rainmaker:
I've been thinking a lot about income requirements lately. It adds up.

1 kid in private school: 50k per year.

1.5 million house (reasonable in SF/NYC/Boston): 66k in mortgage payments (assuming 20% down), plus maintenance and taxes

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

To get this sort of income without driving yourself insane (can you imagine trading for 45 years?) it seems like you should get to a senior level position in a stable business line with reasonable hours. Senior analyst in ER, research director at a mutual fund, MD in a Public Finance group, etc. Then just save early and aggressively.

But ultimately:

notamonkey:
You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

You need equity in your own business, whatever that may be.

At first my jaw dropped when i saw your # of $15-20m....but i did a basic (very basic) calculation in Excel and if you assume 200k savings at age 30 and you increase your savings per year by 5%/yr from your previous year savings- you'll save over $19M by the age of 65. this of course is assuming that your income per year reaches 6 figues ($1M+) by the age of at least 40 years- because you would be saving $325k @age 40 w/my model...and thats POST fucking taxes. god, fuck taxes lol

if anyones curious, heres what i got-

Age Saving for that Year
30 $200,000.00
31 $210,000.00
32 $220,500.00
33 $231,525.00
34 $243,101.25
35 $255,256.31
36 $268,019.13
37 $281,420.08
38 $295,491.09
39 $310,265.64
40 $325,778.93
41 $342,067.87
42 $359,171.27
43 $377,129.83
44 $395,986.32
45 $415,785.64
46 $436,574.92
47 $458,403.66
48 $481,323.85
49 $505,390.04
50 $530,659.54
51 $557,192.52
52 $585,052.14
53 $614,304.75
54 $645,019.99
55 $677,270.99
56 $711,134.54
57 $746,691.26
58 $784,025.83
59 $823,227.12
60 $864,388.48
61 $907,607.90
62 $952,988.29
63 $1,000,637.71
64 $1,050,669.59
65 $1,103,203.07

Total Saved $19,167,264.54

note- growth is simply (previous year + previous year*0.5), pretty neat to tweak the growth in investment rate, that SUBSTANTIALLY will change your total saved. i pray i have this much saved by the time im 60 personally.

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG

9/11/13

AnalystMonkey2769:
West Coast rainmaker:
I've been thinking a lot about income requirements lately. It adds up.

1 kid in private school: 50k per year.

1.5 million house (reasonable in SF/NYC/Boston): 66k in mortgage payments (assuming 20% down), plus maintenance and taxes

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

To get this sort of income without driving yourself insane (can you imagine trading for 45 years?) it seems like you should get to a senior level position in a stable business line with reasonable hours. Senior analyst in ER, research director at a mutual fund, MD in a Public Finance group, etc. Then just save early and aggressively.

But ultimately:

notamonkey:
You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

You need equity in your own business, whatever that may be.

At first my jaw dropped when i saw your # of $15-20m....but i did a basic (very basic) calculation in Excel and if you assume 200k savings at age 30 and you increase your savings per year by 5%/yr from your previous year savings- you'll save over $19M by the age of 65. this of course is assuming that your income per year reaches 6 figues ($1M+) by the age of at least 40 years- because you would be saving $325k @age 40 w/my model...and thats POST fucking taxes. god, fuck taxes lol

if anyones curious, heres what i got-

Age Saving for that Year
30 $200,000.00
31 $210,000.00
32 $220,500.00
33 $231,525.00
34 $243,101.25
35 $255,256.31
36 $268,019.13
37 $281,420.08
38 $295,491.09
39 $310,265.64
40 $325,778.93
41 $342,067.87
42 $359,171.27
43 $377,129.83
44 $395,986.32
45 $415,785.64
46 $436,574.92
47 $458,403.66
48 $481,323.85
49 $505,390.04
50 $530,659.54
51 $557,192.52
52 $585,052.14
53 $614,304.75
54 $645,019.99
55 $677,270.99
56 $711,134.54
57 $746,691.26
58 $784,025.83
59 $823,227.12
60 $864,388.48
61 $907,607.90
62 $952,988.29
63 $1,000,637.71
64 $1,050,669.59
65 $1,103,203.07

Total Saved $19,167,264.54

note- growth is simply (previous year + previous year*0.5), pretty neat to tweak the growth in investment rate, that SUBSTANTIALLY will change your total saved. i pray i have this much saved by the time im 60 personally.


Yea, but you also have to take into account inflation. What will $19M really be worth when you're 65?
9/11/13

AnalystMonkey2769:
West Coast rainmaker:
I've been thinking a lot about income requirements lately. It adds up.

1 kid in private school: 50k per year.

1.5 million house (reasonable in SF/NYC/Boston): 66k in mortgage payments (assuming 20% down), plus maintenance and taxes

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

To get this sort of income without driving yourself insane (can you imagine trading for 45 years?) it seems like you should get to a senior level position in a stable business line with reasonable hours. Senior analyst in ER, research director at a mutual fund, MD in a Public Finance group, etc. Then just save early and aggressively.

But ultimately:

notamonkey:
You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

You need equity in your own business, whatever that may be.

At first my jaw dropped when i saw your # of $15-20m....but i did a basic (very basic) calculation in Excel and if you assume 200k savings at age 30 and you increase your savings per year by 5%/yr from your previous year savings- you'll save over $19M by the age of 65. this of course is assuming that your income per year reaches 6 figues ($1M+) by the age of at least 40 years- because you would be saving $325k @age 40 w/my model...and thats POST fucking taxes. god, fuck taxes lol

if anyones curious, heres what i got-

Age Saving for that Year
30 $200,000.00
31 $210,000.00
32 $220,500.00
33 $231,525.00
34 $243,101.25
35 $255,256.31
36 $268,019.13
37 $281,420.08
38 $295,491.09
39 $310,265.64
40 $325,778.93
41 $342,067.87
42 $359,171.27
43 $377,129.83
44 $395,986.32
45 $415,785.64
46 $436,574.92
47 $458,403.66
48 $481,323.85
49 $505,390.04
50 $530,659.54
51 $557,192.52
52 $585,052.14
53 $614,304.75
54 $645,019.99
55 $677,270.99
56 $711,134.54
57 $746,691.26
58 $784,025.83
59 $823,227.12
60 $864,388.48
61 $907,607.90
62 $952,988.29
63 $1,000,637.71
64 $1,050,669.59
65 $1,103,203.07

Total Saved $19,167,264.54

note- growth is simply (previous year + previous year*0.5), pretty neat to tweak the growth in investment rate, that SUBSTANTIALLY will change your total saved. i pray i have this much saved by the time im 60 personally.

Question is this double counting.
just because you have saved 200k by age 30... doesn't mean you can save the same amount each year.... i thought that that was accumulated over 7 years of working between 23-30.

9/11/13

vanhoot2234:
AnalystMonkey2769:
West Coast rainmaker:
I've been thinking a lot about income requirements lately. It adds up.

1 kid in private school: 50k per year.

1.5 million house (reasonable in SF/NYC/Boston): 66k in mortgage payments (assuming 20% down), plus maintenance and taxes

Saving for retirement: Not sure what your number is, but I want to be putting away 200k+ a year by the time I am in my mid 30s. Will get you to a nest egg of ~$15m - $20m by 67, though hopefully more.

To get this sort of income without driving yourself insane (can you imagine trading for 45 years?) it seems like you should get to a senior level position in a stable business line with reasonable hours. Senior analyst in ER, research director at a mutual fund, MD in a Public Finance group, etc. Then just save early and aggressively.

But ultimately:

notamonkey:
You won't get rich working for anybody else unless your definition of rich is a few million dollars for retirement.

You need equity in your own business, whatever that may be.

At first my jaw dropped when i saw your # of $15-20m....but i did a basic (very basic) calculation in Excel and if you assume 200k savings at age 30 and you increase your savings per year by 5%/yr from your previous year savings- you'll save over $19M by the age of 65. this of course is assuming that your income per year reaches 6 figues ($1M+) by the age of at least 40 years- because you would be saving $325k @age 40 w/my model...and thats POST fucking taxes. god, fuck taxes lol

if anyones curious, heres what i got-

Age Saving for that Year
30 $200,000.00
31 $210,000.00
32 $220,500.00
33 $231,525.00
34 $243,101.25
35 $255,256.31
36 $268,019.13
37 $281,420.08
38 $295,491.09
39 $310,265.64
40 $325,778.93
41 $342,067.87
42 $359,171.27
43 $377,129.83
44 $395,986.32
45 $415,785.64
46 $436,574.92
47 $458,403.66
48 $481,323.85
49 $505,390.04
50 $530,659.54
51 $557,192.52
52 $585,052.14
53 $614,304.75
54 $645,019.99
55 $677,270.99
56 $711,134.54
57 $746,691.26
58 $784,025.83
59 $823,227.12
60 $864,388.48
61 $907,607.90
62 $952,988.29
63 $1,000,637.71
64 $1,050,669.59
65 $1,103,203.07

Total Saved $19,167,264.54

note- growth is simply (previous year + previous year*0.5), pretty neat to tweak the growth in investment rate, that SUBSTANTIALLY will change your total saved. i pray i have this much saved by the time im 60 personally.

Question is this double counting.
just because you have saved 200k by age 30... doesn't mean you can save the same amount each year.... i thought that that was accumulated over 7 years of working between 23-30.

No, the OP said saving $200K/year by age 30.

MM IB -> TMT Corporate Development

9/11/13

I think it comes down to prioritization. What is important to you and what will make you feel rich? Is there some arbitrary number, material things, or is it financial independence? Financial independence is about reducing unnecessary/frivolous costs and having assets that generate return--ie real estate as one example. I've met people that earn 7 figures a year and, while not paycheck to paycheck living, could barely survive a year out of work and certainly not what I would call 'financially independent.' There are others that are comfortably retired or semi-retired and financially independent on $1-2mm nest eggs plus owning their own home.

Figuring that out will lead you to decide how you become rich. If you're looking to be a billionaire, even finance on its own won't do that. Entrepreneurship of some kind is the only way and, really, even getting into the 8 figure net worth before your mid 40s-50s is unlikely if you aren't some kind of business owner or equity partner in a business.

9/11/13

Cost of living is a huge factor as well. I know I make less than my bank's NYC analyst, but I am doing much better than they are. I live in Houston and just bought a nice condo, a nice car, store plenty in savings, can eat out whenever I want. I do this without having to worry about money. I am also still in my early 20's. You can get a 6,000 square feet house here for around a $1 million, and a mortgage on that is around $60k-$70k a year. All the directors in my office have atleast a 5,000 square foot house. They make plenty of money to afford the cost of living here. The same amount of money would not go as far in NYC though. Are they extremely wealthy with hundred of millions? No. But they live a good life and don't have to worry about money.

9/11/13

TeddyTheBear:
Cost of living is a huge factor as well. I know I make less than my bank's NYC analyst, but I am doing much better than they are. I live in Houston and just bought a nice condo, a nice car, store plenty in savings, can eat out whenever I want. I do this without having to worry about money. I am also still in my early 20's. You can get a 6,000 square feet house here for around a $1 million, and a mortgage on that is around $60k-$70k a year. All the directors in my office have atleast a 5,000 square foot house. They make plenty of money to afford the cost of living here. The same amount of money would not go as far in NYC though. Are they extremely wealthy with hundred of millions? No. But they live a good life and don't have to worry about money.

Totally agre on this one, the differences are so huge between different places when it comes to cost of living, that I think these people live a better life than most people in NYC with 100 million. Also because it is NYC, not the best place to live.

9/11/13

It is all about diversification. Diversify your income to real estate, entreprenuerial ventures, personal portfolio etc.

Another way to make a solid income that many people overlook is being on the Board of Directors/Advisors for companies. Family friend has been CEO of 3 F500 and a F1000 company but was pushed out from his last one and is not working, yet he still makes $260k+ because he is on the Board for 7 different companies that meet 1-5 times a year. And yes, its not a salary for someone like that, BUT on top of working another great way to rake in the dough.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."

9/11/13

yeahright:
It is all about diversification. Diversify your income to real estate, entreprenuerial ventures, personal portfolio etc.

Diversification is about the last thing you want if you want to get rich. Diversification is how you stay rich.

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

9/11/13

Can you define rich in terms of net worth rather than yearly income? That would help, but:

Look into who the top 1% is in terms of composition, figure out which of the all possible paths would suit your abilities and then pursue the path. There are problems with this approach though.

But yeah if you want to be rich than business / finance / consulting / law / medicine / entertainment / sports / entrepreneurship / politics / academia (elite in particular areas as generally academia is probably not the place to make money).

"The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males."

9/11/13

Income has nothing to do with being rich. When will you kids learn?

You won't come to this conclusion looking at intelligent high earners like Blankfein, but look at most retired pro athletes who didn't learn the fundamentals of being rich.

9/11/13

Ownership. Can you get rich working for someone else? Sure, but I guess that all depends on how we are defining rich. Starting your own business/earning a large equity stake in some sort of partnership is one of the few ways you can truly be "rich" outside of being part of the .00000001% that makes it to the C-Level of a F500 company. This cuts across all industries, be it finance, medicine, law, etc. Hell, even accounting. A family friend of my parents started his own accounting business after being an accountant for awhile, built it up, and then sold it to a larger firm for $40MM.

9/11/13

A few things that have been touched on. Here are the type of people who get rich: 1) owners; 2) producers (i.e. sales or something similar); 3) people who have paid their dues and have worked their way up the ladder; and 4) rare exceptions like lottery winners, inheritance and 29-year-old bank presidents.

The quickest and best way to make big bucks is to produce revenue for a company. That can be anything from selling insurance to selling investment banking services. Those that are good at production will always make big money.

As an aside, no one is putting down 20% on a $1.5 million house. Try 30 or 40%.

9/11/13

Make a lot of money, save a lot of money, and make good investments. It's really quite simple to figure out, although the implementation is a touch more difficult.

9/11/13

You spend too much money.
Stop spending that much money

9/11/13

investments. if instead of saving 200k cash+deriving interest from it, u put on a second and third and fourth mortgage every few years, u can save up some good capital every year since u would rent out some apartments. if u can get 2k a month from each of ur apartments and by the time ur 50, u have 5 apartments, ur getting a good 10k a month on top of ur own apartment. 120k a year extra and it only snowballs from here.... if yield is high, u mite even be cash generating from one of them.

9/11/13

WSOH:
investments. if instead of saving 200k cash+deriving interest from it, u put on a second and third and fourth mortgage every few years, u can save up some good capital every year since u would rent out some apartments. if u can get 2k a month from each of ur apartments and by the time ur 50, u have 5 apartments, ur getting a good 10k a month on top of ur own apartment. 120k a year extra and it only snowballs from here.... if yield is high, u mite even be cash generating from one of them.

you need fo factor in that you probably wont be making 2k profit... you will be making maybe 100-150 dollars profit on your places per month.
9/11/13

vanhoot2234:
you need fo factor in that you probably wont be making 2k profit... you will be making maybe 100-150 dollars profit on your places per month.

Yeah, I think the numbers are way off. I looked into buying some really cheap ($50k-$75k) real estate that would mostly likely be Section 8 housing. I figured I could only make $200-$300 per month, per property after property taxes and property management fees. Clearly you would have to have a fairly substantial portfolio before you were cash flowing enough to be able to not work. Also, those properties will never truly appreciate in value, at least not to any substantial degree.

My thought is to try and purchase small, somewhat random local/regional businesses that can operate with an absentee owner. I've seen some recently that would only cost around $75k...so not much more than a cheap house/duplex...and cash flow $50k annually. Ideally you could save a couple analyst bonuses, or take a single associate bonus, and purchase a business. From there, every couple years you could purchase a new business with the cashflow from the existing portfolio, plus you could use your subsequent bonuses to purchase additional businesses. The real catch is finding businesses that will truly be able to function with an absentee owner since you will still be working in finance. And truthfully, this might be really difficult to do out of NYC since these types of businesses might be hard to find locally.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

9/11/13

WSOH:
investments. if instead of saving 200k cash+deriving interest from it, u put on a second and third and fourth mortgage every few years, u can save up some good capital every year since u would rent out some apartments. if u can get 2k a month from each of ur apartments and by the time ur 50, u have 5 apartments, ur getting a good 10k a month on top of ur own apartment. 120k a year extra and it only snowballs from here.... if yield is high, u mite even be cash generating from one of them.

Still need to make monthly mortgage payment though.

9/11/13

Only 8 points and you are asking about "how to get rich".... that most likely means one thing. You care too much about money and are on this site/interested in finance solely because it pays well.

Big fat thumbs down to that.

Furthermore, it doesn't always pay well anyway; plenty of people are "in finance" and will never be anywhere near "rich."

I haven't even been here that long and I am already sick of these posts. Figure out that there is more to life than money, but at the same time as realizing that you need to make enough money to live without actually being in debt. Once you can afford your (and your immediate family's) life, then anything else is just bonus (hopefully some of which makes its way to charity, helping brother/sister/mother/father in need, and so on).

In terms of getting rich, the first thing that people (aside from the few exceptions that always exist) need to do is get rid of the idea that the only reason to function in life is for money. Then, you work hard, get lucky, and work harder.

The fact that you are asking how to get rich means you are already on your way to Lazy Town. Start working and ask others how you can excel at your job (rather than how you can get rich). Because if you excel at your job, then you make it much more likely that you will get rich. Anything other than that is just luck. You could get rich through the lottery..... luck. You could get rich through inheritance.... a form of luck (for you, but not for your ancestors who most likely worked hard). And so on.

But aside from luck, you have to be willing to work. That's how you get rich. So go feed your money hunger issues with some actual work.

9/11/13

i dont care about money, i just charge things to the game

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

9/11/13

You can get closer to financial independence/comfort on the revenue or cost side. Building cashflow by keeping your cost basis low is easier said than done based on what your priorities are. Do you want to impress your peers or opposite sex by your zip code or stock portfolio/real estate investments? If your mate is impressed by your zip code expect your cost basis to be permanently high - one day you will have to finance her tastes in diamond rings, marriage and alimony. Then again if the future Mrs. has the income to self-finance & wants to be a career woman, then live on CPW. So the definition of "marrying well" can vary.

People in finance may pay up to 50% of disposable income in rent in Manhattan just for a place to sleep. They're effectively spending their future earnings (bonuses) today. Others manage to keep that % at 5-10% either through subletting, roommates, or living in Queens, Harlem, Brooklyn, or N. NJ.

9/11/13

abedneg06:
You can get closer to financial independence/comfort on the revenue or cost side. Building cashflow by keeping your cost basis low is easier said than done based on what your priorities are. Do you want to impress your peers or opposite sex by your zip code or stock portfolio/real estate investments? If your mate is impressed by your zip code expect your cost basis to be permanently high - one day you will have to finance her tastes in diamond rings, marriage and alimony. Then again if the future Mrs. has the income to self-finance & wants to be a career woman, then live on CPW. So the definition of "marrying well" can vary.

People in finance may pay up to 50% of disposable income in rent in Manhattan just for a place to sleep. They're effectively spending their future earnings (bonuses) today. Others manage to keep that % at 5-10% either through subletting, roommates, or living in Queens, Harlem, Brooklyn, or N. NJ.

I am a "live decently, save the excess" type guy. I have the utmost respect for guys like IlliniProgrammer who can live very frugally. But I spent my childhood living on $3-$5 per day for food, and went into finance so that I would not have to worry about money. I spend what is necessary to maintain a middle class lifestyle, which is quite luxurious by my standards.

The "Mrs." factor has crossed my mind. There is a strong possibility I will be the primary breadwinner in my household. Divorce is always a concern, but pre-nups can limit the damage. I am more concerned about spending habits - I have dated girls with expensive tastes ($30 shampoo, $25 for dinner every night, etc.), and could not imagine financing those expenditures. How the hell do you tell a girl that you just aren't willing to spend that much on her without it blowing up in your face?

9/11/13

Firstly, take her to the free events in city. $25/night is pretty cheap but who eats out every night? Cook for her. Meals are counterproductive anyways.

My old test to weed out gold diggers was to see if my date reaches for her purse when the bill came or left to use the restroom. The second test was trying to figure out w/out directly asking what kind of ring she wanted & how important it was to her.

If she's super hot, ignore everything I just said ; - )

9/11/13

The key to getting rich is simple to identify, it is the execution that is difficult. You will not become extremely rich by working for someone else and without diversifying. Find something you love or an area that has great growth potential or sustained returns and exploit a growth opportunity in that field. It could be within an industry, your company, or even your life. Continue to learn, network, and be willing to fail miserably.

Lastly, spend your money ! I dont care about having 19 million when I am 65-70. I would rather spend my money traveling the world and living crazy adventures between the age of 20-60 and buy a modest house and keep up the fun while I am old. I dont need 19 million stowed away because for all you know you'll die at 60 and will have nothing to show for it but 19 million in a bank account.

I'd rather live than become rich through savings.

9/11/13

here's a tip: don't waste time on WSO and go back to work

9/11/13

This post sums up my only grievance with this site. I hope this is just trolling.

"We are buried beneath the weight of information, which is being confused with knowledge; quantity is being confused with abundance and wealth with happiness. We are monkeys with money and guns." - Tom Waits

9/11/13

Become a sales person.

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this

9/11/13

You can always just sell CutCo knives and try to restart your career at DeVry university.

9/11/13

I don't believe people can really get rich because they work for merely getting rich or the choice of what they do depends on the fluctuation of peak salaries among different job categories.

Look at successful people in each industry, who are not rich? And whose starting point is to do what they choose to do for getting rich at the first place?

Get 'rich' for your mind, find your true passion which you can enjoy working/playing on whatever the amount of pay you can get, and you'll realize you've become a billionaire one day way after the official day that you become the billionaire.

9/11/13

violinlover:
I don't believe people can really get rich because they work for merely getting rich or the choice of what they do depends on the fluctuation of peak salaries among different job categories.

Look at successful people in each industry, who are not rich? And whose starting point is to do what they choose to do for getting rich at the first place?

Get 'rich' for your mind, find your true passion which you can enjoy working/playing on whatever the amount of pay you can get, and you'll realize you've become a billionaire one day way after the official day that you become the billionaire.


I'm actually going to have to disagree with you here.

If you take the case of start-up entrepreneurs, the goal is invariably to make many multiples of your initial investment. You may not be aiming for a billion dollars, but you are aiming for a few mill at the very least. To use an easy example, look at Zuckerberg's evolution in "the social network." At first he's just messing around with FaceMash but the moment he really starts putting effort into Facebook, he's looking for millions. And it's Sean Parker/Justin Timberlake, who sets him on the track to billions.

This is even more true of 'dealmaking' entrepreneurs, that is magnates in established industries, HF and PE managers. There is no way you can argue that these guys aren't aiming to be very rich. The hours, the stress, the risk and the scale of things they decide to take on have at the very least, a little to do with the desire to be rich, or "keep score" past a certain point.

Point is, no billionaire didn't decide to "go for it" at some point. That kind of drive, effort and dedication does not simply come from doing what you love for the sake of it.

9/11/13

GoodBread:
violinlover:
I don't believe people can really get rich because they work for merely getting rich ............

I'm actually going to have to disagree with you here.
.......

And I am going to have to disagree with what you are saying.

1. Most of those people didn't START out with the intention of being all about money. That is what matters for what we are saying here. If you go into finance with a pure interest, and then along the way, once you have a family and NYC life has gotten expensive, then it is understandable that you become more interested in the money. You have established your interest and now are going for more money because you are already working hard and deserve it.

2. Any of your examples that went into it solely for the money are the exception and not the norm. Many more people choosing finance (or whatever) just for the money will end up screwing themselves.

You might have a point somewhere in what you are saying, but I think many of the visitors to this site are too stupid and blinded by the dollar bills in their eyes to read through the lines of your post.

9/11/13

frozencheese:
GoodBread:
violinlover:
I don't believe people can really get rich because they work for merely getting rich ............

I'm actually going to have to disagree with you here.
.......

And I am going to have to disagree with what you are saying.

1. Most of those people didn't START out with the intention of being all about money. That is what matters for what we are saying here. If you go into finance with a pure interest, and then along the way, once you have a family and NYC life has gotten expensive, then it is understandable that you become more interested in the money. You have established your interest and now are going for more money because you are already working hard and deserve it.

2. Any of your examples that went into it solely for the money are the exception and not the norm. Many more people choosing finance (or whatever) just for the money will end up screwing themselves.

You might have a point somewhere in what you are saying, but I think many of the visitors to this site are too stupid and blinded by the dollar bills in their eyes to read through the lines of your post.


I don't believe you understood what I wrote. Never, at any point, did I suggest billionaires did it all for the money. What I'm saying is that invariably, the desire to make a great deal of money played a part at some point.

What in the world is going into finance with a "pure interest?" You do realize the entire goal of finance is to make the highest fees, post the highest returns, generate the most P&L possible right? No one goes into finance without the monetary rewards being a consideration, whether subconsciously or not. No one spends 120 hours a week as an IBD analyst because they have a "pure interest" in pitch books and models.

If you re-read my original post, I don't think you need to "read between the lines" to understand my point.

9/11/13

GoodBread:
frozencheese:
GoodBread:
violinlover:
I don't believe people can really get rich because they work for merely getting rich ............

I'm actually going to have to disagree with you here.
.......

And I am going to have to disagree with what you are saying.


I don't believe you understood what I wrote. Never, at any point, did I suggest billionaires did it all for the money. What I'm saying is that invariably, the desire to make a great deal of money played a part at some point.

What in the world is going into finance with a "pure interest?" You do realize the entire goal of finance is to make the highest fees, post the highest returns, generate the most P&L possible right?

If you re-read my original post, I don't think you need to "read between the lines" to understand my point.

Yeah, I read your first post again and I will admit that I didn't correctly understand it the first time around. But your statement about the "entire goal of finance" being to get the highest fees doesn't disprove that someone can have a pure interest in it. Of course the goal in many jobs (from the corporate perspective) is to get the most income/fees/profit, but that is completely different than going into the job just trying to get rich.

There are definitely people in finance who actually enjoy the IBD work. They might not literally like making the pitch books, but they enjoy the deals, meetings, and work overall. That doesn't mean that they only have an interest in fees.

So yes, I am going to stick with my statement on "pure interest" because some people really love a finance job and not just because of fees and salaries. You can enjoy the overall work that you are doing, but maybe not every particular task, yet not be so intent on fees.

Goals mandated by your company can be different than why you actually do your job.

How many finance workers who enjoy their jobs enjoy it because of fees, as opposed to liking some part of the work process that they do?
Some people, of course are set on the fee/money side; that is the whole issue that is of conversation here. But more than enough people actually enjoy the work they are doing and have an interest in it.

9/11/13

frozencheese:
How many finance workers who enjoy their jobs enjoy it because of fees, as opposed to liking some part of the work process that they do?
Some people, of course are set on the fee/money side; that is the whole issue that is of conversation here. But more than enough people actually enjoy the work they are doing and have an interest in it.

I'm not saying people don't enjoy their jobs, that is why they are good at it. But top MDs are in that position precisely because they have a sense of how to generate the most business and take the biggest cut within reason.
No, plenty of people in finance are not all about their personal income, but seeing as it is very much a function of how they perform in their job, it has to be a motivation on some level or another.
9/11/13

GoodBread:
violinlover:
I don't believe people can really get rich because they work for merely getting rich or the choice of what they do depends on the fluctuation of peak salaries among different job categories.

Look at successful people in each industry, who are not rich? And whose starting point is to do what they choose to do for getting rich at the first place?

Get 'rich' for your mind, find your true passion which you can enjoy working/playing on whatever the amount of pay you can get, and you'll realize you've become a billionaire one day way after the official day that you become the billionaire.


I'm actually going to have to disagree with you here.

If you take the case of start-up entrepreneurs, the goal is invariably to make many multiples of your initial investment. You may not be aiming for a billion dollars, but you are aiming for a few mill at the very least. To use an easy example, look at Zuckerberg's evolution in "the social network." At first he's just messing around with FaceMash but the moment he really starts putting effort into Facebook, he's looking for millions. And it's Sean Parker/Justin Timberlake, who sets him on the track to billions.

This is even more true of 'dealmaking' entrepreneurs, that is magnates in established industries, HF and PE managers. There is no way you can argue that these guys aren't aiming to be very rich. The hours, the stress, the risk and the scale of things they decide to take on have at the very least, a little to do with the desire to be rich, or "keep score" past a certain point.

Point is, no billionaire didn't decide to "go for it" at some point. That kind of drive, effort and dedication does not simply come from doing what you love for the sake of it.

"Billionaire" was just an exaggeration while not my point. "Millionaire" is OK for replacement. I admit that the people you mentioned did aim to be very rich "at some point" on their career paths but it's not supposed to be at the starting point for people who have little experience and are choosing what to do for their life like the fresh graduates. Life is short and the amount money that is defined as "rich" is just a tool to realize the ideas that make our world and life more interesting and better if you have one. It's always sad to hear people say they don't know how to spend the money after they've bought almost everything they want. They sound like they live because they're still alive. They're then usually advised to do philanthropy to fulfill their sense of being needed.

In short, I don't think people should say their passion is to get rich and their job is to serve their passion. The other way around, their passion is to do the job and to get rich can help them do the job better and enjoy more then.

9/11/13

violinlover:
"Billionaire" was just an exaggeration while not my point. "Millionaire" is OK for replacement. I admit that the people you mentioned did aim to be very rich "at some point" on their career paths but it's not supposed to be at the starting point for people who have little experience and are choosing what to do for their life like the fresh graduates. Life is short and the amount money that is defined as "rich" is just a tool to realize the ideas that make our world and life more interesting and better if you have one. It's always sad to hear people say they don't know how to spend the money after they've bought almost everything they want. They sound like they live because they're still alive. They're then usually advised to do philanthropy to fulfill their sense of being needed.

In short, I don't think people should say their passion is to get rich and their job is to serve their passion. The other way around, their passion is to do the job and to get rich can help them do the job better and enjoy more then.


I completely agree with you here, billionaire is a very different ballgame from millionaire. For me personally, I find it important that I work I manage my career in a direction so as to one day work in a position with technically "unlimited upside." Whether that's being a trader, HF manager or starting my own business, the monetary aspect does come into play in a certain way, although having a career that's challenging, interesting and where I get to show some balls is what I'm really looking for.
9/11/13

start a ponzi scheme

9/11/13

If you want to be rich become an entrepreneur -- but that will likely end in failure (or not being rich).

If you want to be comfortable, follow the route of financial services and spend your money wisely. For me, the marginal utility of spending $800 at a club for bottle service and other shit is close to 0. If you don't spend your money on useless shit like that you will have a nice nest egg and hopefully a large bank account to possibly start your own business sometime down the line and get yourself on the path of financial independence (automated income).

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

9/11/13

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

9/11/13

Most rich people in the world didn't get rich with the goal of getting rich. It was purely a bi-product of their hard work. So.. work hard.

'Corruption? Corruption is government intrusion into market efficiencies in the form of regulations. That's Milton Friedman. He got a goddamn Nobel Prize.'

9/11/13

in S&T, it's all about production. My base is a joke but my payout is nice

Lots of guys making 500k-1mm per year that are good salesmen.

9/11/13

I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

9/11/13

Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

9/11/13

notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

9/11/13

Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

9/11/13

notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

9/11/13

Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge[/quote]

Your language indicates that you did not have the benefit of a proper upbringing. It is sometimes difficult to overcome these inherent obstacles; you can't choose your parents.

I think you'll find that leveraging your real estate purchase will lead to a better result than buying it outright in preparation for a hyperinflationary environment.

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

9/11/13

notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge

Your language indicates that you did not have the benefit of a proper upbringing. It is sometimes difficult to overcome these inherent obstacles; you can't choose your parents.

I think you'll find that leveraging your real estate purchase will lead to a better result than buying it outright in preparation for a hyperinflationary environment.[/quote]

To each his own buddy, best of luck leveraging a real estate purchase in an unstable inflationary environment. It should probably be pointed out that in situations like that, unemployment rates are pretty high. So unless you have somekind of income, which is increasing at the rate of inflation to pay for things other than your mortgage, you're going to be in trouble. I'll take a smaller risk in this situation by owning outright every time.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

9/11/13

Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge

Your language indicates that you did not have the benefit of a proper upbringing. It is sometimes difficult to overcome these inherent obstacles; you can't choose your parents.

I think you'll find that leveraging your real estate purchase will lead to a better result than buying it outright in preparation for a hyperinflationary environment.

To each his own buddy, best of luck leveraging a real estate purchase in an unstable inflationary environment. It should probably be pointed out that in situations like that, unemployment rates are pretty high. So unless you have somekind of income, which is increasing at the rate of inflation to pay for things other than your mortgage, you're going to be in trouble. I'll take a smaller risk in this situation by owning outright every time.[/quote]

How is the risk smaller exactly? Just for the sake of numbers, let's take a $200,000 place where you have $200k cash to buy outright or leverage. It could be bought with the bare minimum down (3.5% FHA at the moment) and paying a synthetic rate (interest rate + PMI) of 3.4% for 30yr, which is a bit higher than you can get right now. We'll round-up fees and everything and say you pay $9k as your initial investment. Off the top of my head, your monthly mortgage + PMI (leaving out taxes and insurance since you would have to pay that either way). will be something like $1100, maybe a bit less. You need to only beat the 30 year marginally in yield to make this work out in your favor. In any inflationary scenario, you will come out an absolutely massive winner versus investing the $200k in buying the place outright. This is particularly true in your scenario of high unemployment, where you might not be able to rent out the place very easily.

9/11/13

Jerome Marrow:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge

Your language indicates that you did not have the benefit of a proper upbringing. It is sometimes difficult to overcome these inherent obstacles; you can't choose your parents.

I think you'll find that leveraging your real estate purchase will lead to a better result than buying it outright in preparation for a hyperinflationary environment.

To each his own buddy, best of luck leveraging a real estate purchase in an unstable inflationary environment. It should probably be pointed out that in situations like that, unemployment rates are pretty high. So unless you have somekind of income, which is increasing at the rate of inflation to pay for things other than your mortgage, you're going to be in trouble. I'll take a smaller risk in this situation by owning outright every time.

How is the risk smaller exactly? Just for the sake of numbers, let's take a $200,000 place where you have $200k cash to buy outright or leverage. It could be bought with the bare minimum down (3.5% FHA at the moment) and paying a synthetic rate (interest rate + PMI) of 3.4% for 30yr, which is a bit higher than you can get right now. We'll round-up fees and everything and say you pay $9k as your initial investment. Off the top of my head, your monthly mortgage + PMI (leaving out taxes and insurance since you would have to pay that either way). will be something like $1100, maybe a bit less. You need to only beat the 30 year marginally in yield to make this work out in your favor. In any inflationary scenario, you will come out an absolutely massive winner versus investing the $200k in buying the place outright. This is particularly true in your scenario of high unemployment, where you might not be able to rent out the place very easily.[/quote]

Ok, here you go:

1) I own the place outright, have to pay property taxes (say 2% of initial purchase price/year). As long as I can pay those taxes, I have a placce to at least sleep, a place for my family to stay, etc.

2) I get a mortgage. First off, you're not buying anything with 3.5% down, this isn't 2006, let's say 20% so that's 40k. 3.4% is a reasonable interest rate, although, when I'm 25 and have little creidt history, wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit higher but whatever. I'll call monthly expenses including mortgage $1000/month (staying that way with inflation). I'm doing pretty well financially let's say, on average over 3 years I'm making 80k/year, and taking home 45k. Less mortgage that's 33k/year. Not too bad. Less living expenses (say 1k/month), that's 21k. All of a sudden China says put up or shut up, and we have an average of 30% inflation over 3 years, so the price of just about everything has doubled. My after living expenses pay has doubled, and now I have just 9k to play around with, still ok. Now I get sick and can't work, or I get laid off, or my brother has a stroke, w/e. I can start to dip into the remaining 160k in savings I had, but that's going half as far. Or I can sell the house, and we both know during a fucked economy the house isn't going to move quickly or for as much as it should, especially in a more rural area. But I sell like you said. And, now I don't own a place to live, so I guess I can rent? But the price of rent has gone up with inflation so that's pretty expensive...so I'm sort of back where I started after a minor emergency and selling the home, I have 250k, but it's not worth what it was 4 years ago.

Point is this, as long as everything in life goes swimmingly financially and there is low enough inflation that things stay pretty ok (no apocalypse shit happening), you're right, I'll do great taking out a mortgage. (And I guess I should have included this in my first post) But that's not how I live my life, I choose to be very cautious. And at least owning a place means that even if I lose my job or whatever, I'm not going to have to move or something to keep living. Besides that emotional and mental stability it would bring. So that's why the risk is smaller in my book.

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.

9/11/13

Kenny Powers:
Jerome Marrow:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge

Your language indicates that you did not have the benefit of a proper upbringing. It is sometimes difficult to overcome these inherent obstacles; you can't choose your parents.

I think you'll find that leveraging your real estate purchase will lead to a better result than buying it outright in preparation for a hyperinflationary environment.

To each his own buddy, best of luck leveraging a real estate purchase in an unstable inflationary environment. It should probably be pointed out that in situations like that, unemployment rates are pretty high. So unless you have somekind of income, which is increasing at the rate of inflation to pay for things other than your mortgage, you're going to be in trouble. I'll take a smaller risk in this situation by owning outright every time.

How is the risk smaller exactly? Just for the sake of numbers, let's take a $200,000 place where you have $200k cash to buy outright or leverage. It could be bought with the bare minimum down (3.5% FHA at the moment) and paying a synthetic rate (interest rate + PMI) of 3.4% for 30yr, which is a bit higher than you can get right now. We'll round-up fees and everything and say you pay $9k as your initial investment. Off the top of my head, your monthly mortgage + PMI (leaving out taxes and insurance since you would have to pay that either way). will be something like $1100, maybe a bit less. You need to only beat the 30 year marginally in yield to make this work out in your favor. In any inflationary scenario, you will come out an absolutely massive winner versus investing the $200k in buying the place outright. This is particularly true in your scenario of high unemployment, where you might not be able to rent out the place very easily.

Ok, here you go:

1) I own the place outright, have to pay property taxes (say 2% of initial purchase price/year). As long as I can pay those taxes, I have a placce to at least sleep, a place for my family to stay, etc.

2) I get a mortgage. First off, you're not buying anything with 3.5% down, this isn't 2006, let's say 20% so that's 40k. 3.4% is a reasonable interest rate, although, when I'm 25 and have little creidt history, wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit higher but whatever. I'll call monthly expenses including mortgage $1000/month (staying that way with inflation). I'm doing pretty well financially let's say, on average over 3 years I'm making 80k/year, and taking home 45k. Less mortgage that's 33k/year. Not too bad. Less living expenses (say 1k/month), that's 21k. All of a sudden China says put up or shut up, and we have an average of 30% inflation over 3 years, so the price of just about everything has doubled. My after living expenses pay has doubled, and now I have just 9k to play around with, still ok. Now I get sick and can't work, or I get laid off, or my brother has a stroke, w/e. I can start to dip into the remaining 160k in savings I had, but that's going half as far. Or I can sell the house, and we both know during a fucked economy the house isn't going to move quickly or for as much as it should, especially in a more rural area. But I sell like you said. And, now I don't own a place to live, so I guess I can rent? But the price of rent has gone up with inflation so that's pretty expensive...so I'm sort of back where I started after a minor emergency and selling the home, I have 250k, but it's not worth what it was 4 years ago.

Point is this, as long as everything in life goes swimmingly financially and there is low enough inflation that things stay pretty ok (no apocalypse shit happening), you're right, I'll do great taking out a mortgage. (And I guess I should have included this in my first post) But that's not how I live my life, I choose to be very cautious. And at least owning a place means that even if I lose my job or whatever, I'm not going to have to move or something to keep living. Besides that emotional and mental stability it would bring. So that's why the risk is smaller in my book.[/quote]

I think you are missing the point Kenny Powers. In a big inflationary event, you want to have a mortgage. Look at it this way. If your payment for the mortgage is $1,000 in 2013, that will be your payment all the way till 2043. If we have high inflation, to the point that a piece of bread costs $1,000 down the road, you will basically be paying the same amount of money monthly, towards your mortgage, than what a piece of bread costs! Your salary will be pretty "high" in terms of the dollar amount, regardless of your work, just because the value of the dollar has decreased too much. In an inflationary event, salaries skyrocket as well. Otherwise, people would just not work if they could not earn enough to afford a piece of bread.

So, if I was 100% sure that a big inflationary event was coming, what I would do is buy a house putting the minimum amount up front I can. And yes, you can buy a house with 3.5% down, it is not 2009 buddy. You just need great credit and lots of assets, which you have since you can buy the house cash! But this is not the point. Put the less amount required for a loan. Then, I would protect my remaining cash by buying those other hedges you pointed out too, maybe land? Maybe some oil investments? Gold looks nice too. That will leave me with the same amount of "cash" left after the inflationary event, and a mortgage payment that would be a joke to make. I could probably ask for money in the street and get my monthly payment. Heck, I could probably pay off the mortgage with a month's pay.

9/11/13

Kenny Powers:
Jerome Marrow:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
notamonkey:
Kenny Powers:
I'm going to start by saving as much as i can in the next 3 years in NY, and then taking that savings to a low COL area and buying (maybe through state auction, hopefully all in cash) a place outright. I've got less and less confidence every day that any paper savings I accrue won't be burned by inflation/taxes in the next 15 years.

If you're concerned about inflation, then why on earth wouldn't you take out a gigantic mortgage? Load up on as much debt as you can and pay it back with dollars worth half as much as when you borrowed them.

Not saying i'd take out a mortgage, i'd like to own something outright.

I don't think you understand how inflation works.

No fuckhead I'm pretty sure you don't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_hedge

Your language indicates that you did not have the benefit of a proper upbringing. It is sometimes difficult to overcome these inherent obstacles; you can't choose your parents.

I think you'll find that leveraging your real estate purchase will lead to a better result than buying it outright in preparation for a hyperinflationary environment.

To each his own buddy, best of luck leveraging a real estate purchase in an unstable inflationary environment. It should probably be pointed out that in situations like that, unemployment rates are pretty high. So unless you have somekind of income, which is increasing at the rate of inflation to pay for things other than your mortgage, you're going to be in trouble. I'll take a smaller risk in this situation by owning outright every time.

How is the risk smaller exactly? Just for the sake of numbers, let's take a $200,000 place where you have $200k cash to buy outright or leverage. It could be bought with the bare minimum down (3.5% FHA at the moment) and paying a synthetic rate (interest rate + PMI) of 3.4% for 30yr, which is a bit higher than you can get right now. We'll round-up fees and everything and say you pay $9k as your initial investment. Off the top of my head, your monthly mortgage + PMI (leaving out taxes and insurance since you would have to pay that either way). will be something like $1100, maybe a bit less. You need to only beat the 30 year marginally in yield to make this work out in your favor. In any inflationary scenario, you will come out an absolutely massive winner versus investing the $200k in buying the place outright. This is particularly true in your scenario of high unemployment, where you might not be able to rent out the place very easily.

Ok, here you go:

1) I own the place outright, have to pay property taxes (say 2% of initial purchase price/year). As long as I can pay those taxes, I have a placce to at least sleep, a place for my family to stay, etc.

2) I get a mortgage. First off, you're not buying anything with 3.5% down, this isn't 2006, let's say 20% so that's 40k. 3.4% is a reasonable interest rate, although, when I'm 25 and have little creidt history, wouldn't be surprised if it was a bit higher but whatever. I'll call monthly expenses including mortgage $1000/month (staying that way with inflation). I'm doing pretty well financially let's say, on average over 3 years I'm making 80k/year, and taking home 45k. Less mortgage that's 33k/year. Not too bad. Less living expenses (say 1k/month), that's 21k. All of a sudden China says put up or shut up, and we have an average of 30% inflation over 3 years, so the price of just about everything has doubled. My after living expenses pay has doubled, and now I have just 9k to play around with, still ok. Now I get sick and can't work, or I get laid off, or my brother has a stroke, w/e. I can start to dip into the remaining 160k in savings I had, but that's going half as far. Or I can sell the house, and we both know during a fucked economy the house isn't going to move quickly or for as much as it should, especially in a more rural area. But I sell like you said. And, now I don't own a place to live, so I guess I can rent? But the price of rent has gone up with inflation so that's pretty expensive...so I'm sort of back where I started after a minor emergency and selling the home, I have 250k, but it's not worth what it was 4 years ago.

Point is this, as long as everything in life goes swimmingly financially and there is low enough inflation that things stay pretty ok (no apocalypse shit happening), you're right, I'll do great taking out a mortgage. (And I guess I should have included this in my first post) But that's not how I live my life, I choose to be very cautious. And at least owning a place means that even if I lose my job or whatever, I'm not going to have to move or something to keep living. Besides that emotional and mental stability it would bring. So that's why the risk is smaller in my book.[/quote]

I bought a place with 3.5% and 3.0% interest rate Dec 2012. A good friend of mine closed Feb 2013 on a place 4.0% down, 3.1% rate. You pay PMI at that level, which raises your synthetic rate up to roughly 3.3 and 3.4% respectively, but only temporarily as both places appraised for $80k+ over the sale price (once you have 20% equity, PMI is dropped, but it is so low it is pointless). We both had the option to buy cash and chose to mortgage instead.

You didn't factor in reinvesting the $160k vs letting it sit there, which is quite stupid. You should be getting return better than the money market rate on the $160k, which in an inflationary environment, should be getting you substantial returns to be able to cover your new living expenses, your mortgage, etc. Becoming unemployed will hurt at any point in time, so I frankly fail to see the point in bringing that up. In fact, the liquidity in cash a mortgage provides would only help in such a situation.

If you're assuming the price of rent is going up, you should be able to rent out a portion of the building. In what was being discussed, a multi-unit, this makes it quite profitable.

Pretty much everything you said here is either intentionally myopic/pigeon holed or outright wrong.

9/11/13

Everybody here is always so risk adverse towards being an entrepreneur which I personally find funny because if you ask me the risks involved in finance are just as bad. No guarantee that you'll find a job after college and if you went to an ivy league that's at least 60k of debt. If you do get a job you're going to be investing hours upon hours of your precious youth and there's no guarantee you won't get laid off for all your work. And even if you do somehow make it to the top there's no guarantee you'll make millions. Maybe 300-400k a year if you're lucky. Is Ibanking really safer than becoming an entrepreneur? Sure, but not THAT much more.

The reason most entrepreneurs fail is #1 because they have no experience. That is just something that comes with the territory. The second biggest reason is because they are in it for the money. The best entrepreneurs are the ones who had a vision and a TRUE passion for what they were doing. That's not to say money wasn't in the back of their minds but it wasn't their priority.

I truly believe the idea that the key to success is to find something you are REALLY passionate about and find a way to do it better or differently than everybody else. Contrary to what you may think the second part is easy. It's the first part most people fail with.

9/11/13

PatrickBatman:
Everybody here is always so risk adverse towards being an entrepreneur which I personally find funny because if you ask me the risks involved in finance are just as bad. No guarantee that you'll find a job after college and if you went to an ivy league that's at least 60k of debt. If you do get a job you're going to be investing hours upon hours of your precious youth and there's no guarantee you won't get laid off for all your work. And even if you do somehow make it to the top there's no guarantee you'll make millions. Maybe 300-400k a year if you're lucky. Is Ibanking really safer than becoming an entrepreneur? Sure, but not THAT much more.

The reason most entrepreneurs fail is #1 because they have no experience. That is just something that comes with the territory. The second biggest reason is because they are in it for the money. The best entrepreneurs are the ones who had a vision and a TRUE passion for what they were doing. That's not to say money wasn't in the back of their minds but it wasn't their priority.

I truly believe the idea that the key to success is to find something you are REALLY passionate about and find a way to do it better or differently than everybody else. Contrary to what you may think the second part is easy. It's the first part most people fail with.


Thumb up!
9/11/13

1. Take out a giant giant giant loan
2. Head to casino
3. Head to roulette table
4. Put all money on black/red

9/11/13

Asking a bunch of people who aren't really rich about how to get really rich is like asking a homeless person about owning a house.

You need to talk to people whom are really rich.

Let me give you an insight. You need equity in your own thing, and you need diversification. Owning stock or an IRA isn't equity. I don't care what anyone says. If its not a position that is over 25% its not equity. You need to own a real equity position in a handful of ventures. I look at owning rental property as a venture regardless of the number of properties you own. I own ag land, commercial/industrial properties, commercial residential, businesses. I either own these entities outright or have partnerships. If anyone here says " Want to know a type of ship that sinks? A partnership" needs to be punched in the face. Yes partnerships fail, so do sole proprietorships, LLPs, LLCs, S-Corps, Corps. Anything can fail, however when you have partners everyone looses less.

Anyway the most sure fire way to wealth and riches it through real ownership. You need the ability to direct the company or entity and you need real skin in the game. Congrats you own a lot of apple, do you have any real say in what happens? No you don't so take that "win" of yours and go suck on it while you look at porn on your iphone.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

The only ways to get rich at a very young age, are through starting your own business (and selling it) or being involved in a liquid asset classes that can generate massive returns in a short period of time.

If you want to become rich through working for someone else, the only way you can become rich would be through making smart investments on the side. If you work in a bank for example, you won't have the time or won't even be allowed contractually to do consulting stuff on the side.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

9/11/13

@Matrick Or you could win the lottery...

Calm down.

9/11/13

Good plan ;)

Wasn't there some group of guys at MIT or so that managed to crack the lottery three times? I don't mean the Black Jack Crew...

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

9/11/13

If we're going to sum up ways to get rich in one sentence, I have to go with activist investing. You get the control factor, without paying a 30% buyout premium. It's a pretty simple process actually.

1) Buy a 10% stake in a poorly run company
2) Try and fire everyone that sucks
3) Sell for a profit and repeat

Competition is a sin.

-John D. Rockefeller

9/11/13

Hooked on LEAPS:

If we're going to sum up ways to get rich in one sentence, I have to go with activist investing. You get the control factor, without paying a 30% buyout premium. It's a pretty simple process actually.

1) Buy a 10% stake in a poorly run company

2) Try and fire everyone that sucks

3) Sell for a profit and repeat


And you can run the whole thing with a tenth of the people you need for PE and can hedge market risk and get paid every year and have flexible entry exit, don't structurally buy at top of cycle and don't have to mess around with boring processes.
9/11/13

leveredarb:

Hooked on LEAPS:

If we're going to sum up ways to get rich in one sentence, I have to go with activist investing. You get the control factor, without paying a 30% buyout premium. It's a pretty simple process actually.

1) Buy a 10% stake in a poorly run company

2) Try and fire everyone that sucks

3) Sell for a profit and repeat

And you can run the whole thing with a tenth of the people you need for PE and can hedge market risk and get paid every year and have flexible entry exit, don't structurally buy at top of cycle and don't have to mess around with boring processes.

Why do I need a ton of people? Why can't I do it myself? Isn't that what Tom Gores did?

9/11/13

According to Glassdoor, Platinum has 5000+ employees.

9/11/13

45c345:

According to Glassdoor, Platinum has 5000+ employees.

What do all those people do? Serious question.

9/11/13

No idea. You're the LBO expert, shouldn't you know?

9/11/13

Well if its that fucking easy then why is it so damn hard?

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

heister:

Well if its that fucking easy then why is it so damn hard?

Lack of initial capital.

I am going to be a doctor. I intend to save up $1 million and start my company.

9/11/13

Do you even know what an LBO is?

Or for that matter do you know what sarcasm is?

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

heister:

Do you even know what an LBO is?

Or for that matter do you know what sarcasm is?

Yes, I know what an LBO is. My target companies are in the $10-15 million range. That is why I said lack of initial capital. Sure, you can start smaller.

Sarcasm is hard to detect on the net.

9/11/13

AxionJaxion:
I am going to be a doctor.

Haha, yikes.

9/11/13

kid definitely voted for Obama

9/11/13

good luck let me know how it turns out

-

9/11/13

Wtf is this horseshit

I hate victims who respect their executioners

9/11/13

BlackHat:

Wtf is this horseshit


Some kid who found the term lbo on investopedia an thinks it's as easy as that set it and forget it oven.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

BlackHat:

Wtf is this horseshit


I'm with this guy.
9/11/13

Heists?

The strangers in this town They raise you up just to cut you down
9/11/13

If I work at the Goldmann Sacks can I do LBOz????

9/11/13

Lol... if you follow that game plan you will probably be well into your life before you start balling out of control and at that point who needs money ?

OR you will go bankrupt in your 40s or late 30s..

Try again.

I like money

9/11/13

Haha, SB... That's because he knows Barack Hussein will help him make it rain as a physician (doing LBOs on the side).

9/11/13

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

9/11/13

AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.


I'm pretty sure you won't.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

heister:

AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

I'm pretty sure you won't.


Why not?
9/11/13

AxionJaxion:

heister:
AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

I'm pretty sure you won't.

Why not?


Because you are insane.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

heister:

AxionJaxion:
heister:
AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

I'm pretty sure you won't.

Why not?

Because you are insane.


What is insane about my plan ?
9/11/13

There's nothing insane about your plan, bro. Full-speed ahead!

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

9/11/13

AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

That's nothing. Go look up my comp from when I was 57.
9/11/13

DickFuld:

AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

That's nothing. Go look up my comp from when I was 57.

Mad props, Dick. Very impressive.

9/11/13

DickFuld:

AxionJaxion:

I was a strong Romney supporter.

The general consensus in this thread is disturbing. Be optimistic, folks.

I think I'll be earning $9 million per annum by the time I'm 57.

That's nothing. Go look up my comp from when I was 57.

Very cool, @"Dickfuld". I always like it when BSDs out earn rock stars and daytime TV show hosts. It makes me sick to see people like Dimon making a fraction of what Bieber or Dr. Phil makes. Also, I would like to see @"Edmundo Braverman" and Dick Fuld create an a show parodying Dr. Phil. It would be the BSD talk show. Just think how funny it would be if they had Dimon on the show.

"He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man." -- William Shakespeare, Much Ado About Nothing

9/11/13

Those numbers are pretty damn specific. You must know your shit. How do I get involved?

9/11/13

Obviously trolling. Nobody is this irrational...

9/11/13

rhen:

Obviously trolling. Nobody is this irrational...

What is irrational about my plan?

9/11/13

Per annum huh? You're classic dude, Cicero of the WSO forum (no puns)

9/11/13

god, not this guy again. next, ibracadabra is going to show up telling us how americans are stupid and monolingual

9/11/13

He's been here before? This is like that Eamon guy.

9/11/13

Ipso facto:

god, not this guy again. next, ibracadabra is going to show up telling us how americans are stupid and monolingual

And Florida is a banking Utopia and the best place on Earth.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.

9/11/13

I heard Carl Icahn got his start LBO - ing hot dog carts and lemonade stands in Queens. In between beating up Jewish kids that is. Look at him now -- you're on your way kid.

patternfinder:

Of course, I would just buy in scales.

See my WSO Blog | my AMA

9/11/13

I think you guys are dicks who don't think big. I am not trolling.

I am going to purchase a $10 million company with a net pre-tax annual revenue of 1.5 million.

I will do this with $1 million in cash and $9 million borrowed from a bank at 10% interest.

Do the math: $1.5 million - $900K = $600K pre-tax. $400K post-tax.

When it's time to pay down the principal, renew the loan.

Find about 23 other companies to purchase. $400K x 23 = $9.2 million per annum.

9/11/13

Have you ever heard of additional payroll? Debt coverage ratios? Loan limits? Inside tracts?

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

heister:

Have you ever heard of additional payroll? Debt coverage ratios? Loan limits? Inside tracts?

No, I'm not a finance guy by definition. I'm just going to have a lot of cash. Care to explain?

I don't plan on buying all 23 at once. I will use the profits from the businesses to buy more.

9/11/13

AxionJaxion:
No, I'm not a finance guy by definition.

I think you have a solid enough foundation for me to partner up. Let's both get rich. I can LBO the shit out of all kinds of stuff.

9/11/13

nyboarder:

AxionJaxion:

No, I'm not a finance guy by definition.

I think you have a solid enough foundation for me to partner up. Let's both get rich. I can LBO the shit out of all kinds of stuff.

Quit being sarcastic. Tell me legitimate reasons why this won't work. I think you guys are just envious.

9/11/13

In the event that you're not trolling and actually serious, answer me this: If it were that easy, why do highly intelligent businessmen who spend their lives conducting LBOs and studying the markets/state of the economy not rake in $9.2mm per annum?

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

9/11/13

D M:

In the event that you're not trolling and actually serious, answer me this: If it were that easy, why do highly intelligent businessmen who spend their lives conducting LBOs and studying the markets/state of the economy not rake in $9.2mm per annum?

Not sure. Lack of $1 million to start with? Please be honest and serious and help me: what am I not understanding?

9/11/13

If you can't answer that question, just hope you get very, very lucky with your investments.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer
"Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee

9/11/13

It won't work because you're an idiot. Not being sarcastic.

9/11/13

AxionJaxion:

I think you guys are dicks who don't think big. I am not trolling.

I am going to purchase a $10 million company with a net pre-tax annual revenue of 1.5 million.

I will do this with $1 million in cash and $9 million borrowed from a bank at 10% interest.

Do the math: $1.5 million - $900K = $600K pre-tax. $400K post-tax.

When it's time to pay down the principal, renew the loan.

Find about 23 other companies to purchase. $400K x 23 = $9.2 million per annum.

Wtf is "net pre-tax annual revenue" because if you can find a business that goes for 6x earnings that has literally no cost of sales and is reliable enough that a bank would let you lever up 9x to buy it... and you can find 24 of these... I think you could get paid a lot more than $9.2M working for someone else to do it for them on a much bigger scale.

I hate victims who respect their executioners

9/11/13

BlackHat:

AxionJaxion:

I think you guys are dicks who don't think big. I am not trolling.

I am going to purchase a $10 million company with a net pre-tax annual revenue of 1.5 million.

I will do this with $1 million in cash and $9 million borrowed from a bank at 10% interest.

Do the math: $1.5 million - $900K = $600K pre-tax. $400K post-tax.

When it's time to pay down the principal, renew the loan.

Find about 23 other companies to purchase. $400K x 23 = $9.2 million per annum.

Wtf is "net pre-tax annual revenue" because if you can find a business that goes for 6x earnings that has literally no cost of sales and is reliable enough that a bank would let you lever up 9x to buy it... and you can find 24 of these... I think you could get paid a lot more than $9.2M working for someone else to do it for them on a much bigger scale.


Shhhh, he doesn't understand realities.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

Why 23? Why not 100?

9/11/13

I seriously can't believe I never understood how easy this is! Sorry I doubted you man.

I think you'll have the market cornered on LBOs, so I'll probably have to just focus on good old fashioned consumer products.

I'll just invent a simple yet useful product. I'll manufacture it and market it and it will cost me, say, $13 each to produce. Then I'll just sell it for $23! I'm sure everyone in America will need one each year. With $10 gross margin on and 300M people in the US, i'll be making, oh, $3B per year!

Everybody: stop being so dang pessimistic. These are simple concepts! Stop being haters.

9/11/13

rhen:

I seriously can't believe I never understood how easy this is! Sorry I doubted you man.

I think you'll have the market cornered on LBOs, so I'll probably have to just focus on good old fashioned consumer products.

I'll just invent a simple yet useful product. I'll manufacture it and market it and it will cost me, say, $13 each to produce. Then I'll just sell it for $23! I'm sure everyone in America will need one each year. With $10 gross margin on and 300M people in the US, i'll be making, oh, $3B per year!

Everybody: stop being so dang pessimistic. These are simple concepts! Stop being haters.

You are exactly the type of person those who "make it" talk about when saying people said they couldn't do it.

I am convinced I will be worth millions.

9/11/13

AxionJaxion:

rhen:

I seriously can't believe I never understood how easy this is! Sorry I doubted you man.

I think you'll have the market cornered on LBOs, so I'll probably have to just focus on good old fashioned consumer products.

I'll just invent a simple yet useful product. I'll manufacture it and market it and it will cost me, say, $13 each to produce. Then I'll just sell it for $23! I'm sure everyone in America will need one each year. With $10 gross margin on and 300M people in the US, i'll be making, oh, $3B per year!

Everybody: stop being so dang pessimistic. These are simple concepts! Stop being haters.

You are exactly the type of person those who "make it" talk about when saying people said they couldn't do it.

I am convinced I will be worth millions.

All sarcasm aside, I strongly believe that you can achieve whatever it is you put your mind to within reason. All of my past threads have said something to this effect. And if your remarks are in earnest, I hope you do prove us wrong.

But you have to understand that there are thousands of people in finance across the world who understand LBOs and try to make money with that knowledge. If you are in earnest, then our chiding should benefit you. You should take it as advice from informed to semi-informed peers that your plan simply isn't foolproof. I mean, your whole premise hinges on becoming a surgeon with annual income of 1.5M in order to start buying companies. Becoming a surgeon at this level is selective (more so than almost anything in finance) and you shouldn't take any part of this plan lightly.

It's one thing to come up with some very generous assumptions, spread the numbers, and figure out you'll make over 9M a year. It's a very different thing grinding out the education and time and sacrifices you will have to make along the way. And one of the hardest things you'll confront (we all do at some point) is that our abilities are finite; in many cases we are not as strong or as smart or as talented as we thought we were, and this life is about working hard and adjusting expectations along the way.

You're setting yourself up for failure right away by flippantly declaring your expected salary at age 57 and lightly detailing milestones that resemble the pinnacle goals of the best and brightest.

Good luck.

9/11/13

rhen:

AxionJaxion:
rhen:

I seriously can't believe I never understood how easy this is! Sorry I doubted you man.

I think you'll have the market cornered on LBOs, so I'll probably have to just focus on good old fashioned consumer products.

I'll just invent a simple yet useful product. I'll manufacture it and market it and it will cost me, say, $13 each to produce. Then I'll just sell it for $23! I'm sure everyone in America will need one each year. With $10 gross margin on and 300M people in the US, i'll be making, oh, $3B per year!

Everybody: stop being so dang pessimistic. These are simple concepts! Stop being haters.

You are exactly the type of person those who "make it" talk about when saying people said they couldn't do it.

I am convinced I will be worth millions.

All sarcasm aside, I strongly believe that you can achieve whatever it is you put your mind to within reason. All of my past threads have said something to this effect. And if your remarks are in earnest, I hope you do prove us wrong.

But you have to understand that there are thousands of people in finance across the world who understand LBOs and try to make money with that knowledge. If you are in earnest, then our chiding should benefit you. You should take it as advice from informed to semi-informed peers that your plan simply isn't foolproof. I mean, your whole premise hinges on becoming a surgeon with annual income of 1.5M in order to start buying companies. Becoming a surgeon at this level is selective (more so than almost anything in finance) and you shouldn't take any part of this plan lightly.

It's one thing to come up with some very generous assumptions, spread the numbers, and figure out you'll make over 9M a year. It's a very different thing grinding out the education and time and sacrifices you will have to make along the way. And one of the hardest things you'll confront (we all do at some point) is that our abilities are finite; in many cases we are not as strong or as smart or as talented as we thought we were, and this life is about working hard and adjusting expectations along the way.

You're setting yourself up for failure right away by flippantly declaring your expected salary at age 57 and lightly detailing milestones that resemble the pinnacle goals of the best and brightest.

Good luck.

Thank you for the serious reply. I think I am ready to make sacrifices, and I am certainly determined.

I understand the mechanics of a basic LBO, but that is all. I admittedly jumped the gun.

Can I ask you a few questions?:

A. Why do you need a bunch of other employees? B. How complex of a process is it?

Also, since I am new to finance, I am not claiming expertise on anything. I respect the Hell out of finance guys. No offense was intended.

9/11/13

Okay, to shut this kid up I will give you a list of reasons why this will never work. Notice how none of them have anything to do with money.

1) Time, there is no fucking way you will have the time to manage 5 individual companies let alone 20+.

2) Knowledge, do you even know what the fuck you are doing?

3) Industry knowledge. You have to actually know a lot about an industry to own a successful company.

4) You have to know people to get the deals.

5) You have to know how to manage companies

6) You actually have to have a fucking realistic grasp on reality.

7) You have to not be fucking dumb enough to want to be a doctor for the money.

Those are just a few of the non money related reasons.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

9/11/13

heister:

Okay, to shut this kid up I will give you a list of reasons why this will never work. Notice how none of them have anything to do with mo