SA Group Placement
Summer analyst group placement can be a stressful experience. You just got the summer offer, which is great, but arguably what defines your experience the most is what group you're in. The group you intern in is most likely the group you will receive a full-time offer for -- and therefore, most likely the group that will determine your post-banking opportunity set.
Don't take your foot off the gas. Getting group placement right is a critical juncture.
Through the interview process you have met alumni from your school -- or older friends or mentors who helped shepherd you through the process. Unless they're openly campaigning for you to join their groups, rely on them. Ask them for advice and for introductions to analysts in other groups. Typically, the analysts can serve as gatekeepers relaying information about who's shown interest to the staffers and HR, who typically control group placement.
After speaking with a few analysts in a given group, they may introduce you to the staffer. Make sure to put your best foot forward and express strong interest in their group, etc. After speaking with a few analysts, you should have a decent sense for what the group culture / vibe is like. Try to match that.
A dirty (not-so-secret) secret is that almost all group placement decisions are made before group placement day - especially for the premier groups. You need to network to speak with analysts in those groups and ultimately the decision makers. Some may be annoyed / overwhelmed by summer analyst outreach, but most get it -- having been through the process themselves not too long ago.
Good luck.
IB Summer Analyst Group Placement - lying about groups you're talking to?? (Originally Posted: 02/25/2017)
If a group asks you what other groups you've been talking to, and you haven't really spoken to anyone else because conversations with that group have been going really well, would it be bad to just give them a couple group names anyways? I mean even if things are going really well with them, I didn't want to seem like I'm desperate/they're my only option.
Does anyone think this will come back to hurt me?? I know groups talk to each other, so I don't want it to seem like I lied to them... The group actually told me that they really liked me, so do you think this might blow it? Thanks in advance.
And would it be better to just wait and hope this passes or would it be better to come clean?
never, ever lie. people always find out.
you already have the job - there's nothing you can do to jeopardize the offer. you can easily sabotage your rep and group placement if people find out. nothing wrong with not having spoken to many other people - would just start doing so.
once you have an offer, people aren't really looking to grill you - they just want to make sure there's a good fit between group and person / person and group.
ou are completely overthinking this.
Don't lie...not sure groups compare notes that much on incoming interns but members of your school's recruiting team may do so. It will look odd to say the least if it gets back to x group that you are telling people you are meeting with them when you aren't. It's such a stupid thing to lie about that if you get caught lying here people will wonder what else you are lying about.
My advice:
1) It's great that you found a group where there appears to be mutual interest. Be honest with them that they are your top choice and you would love to join their group. Forget any of this concept of "playinng hard to get" or "looking too desperate"...this isn't dating. Groups would prefer to rank candidates highly that they think they have a good shot of getting.
2) That being said, even if a group ranks you high and you rank them high, there is still an element of randomness/luck. There are no guarantees when it's HR that ultimately places people--they have to balance demand from other groups and also may not be privy to the conversations you've had.
3) You should really reach out to other groups--presumably you'll need to rank more than one group so you'd want your backups not to be completely random, but ones you think are decent fallbacks. Otherwise, you are puting yourself in a highly variable situation where you either get your top group or you get a group that no one else wants.
4) Until you've talked to other groups your answer should be "To be honest, as your group is far and away my top choice, I've prioritized getting to know people in your group. I've spoken with (x, y z people--name someone you met through recruiting) and am looking at speaking with more people there, but again your group is my top choice."
5) Once you have spoken to people you can say who you talked to (without lying) and then reiterate that after talking to them your top group is still your top group. Part of the reason they are asking this is to see that you've done your research and are making an informed decision when ranking.
This really isnt that hard a situation to deal with.
Echo this. There's no doubt the analysts across groups know each other and the last thing you want is for you to come up in conversation and the group you claim to have been talking to has never heard of you.
That said, nothing is certain and you should definitely be talking to other groups. They may not be the most appealing right now, but you never know where you may want to end up if given a FT offer. Knowing more than one group is nothing but a benefit.
Ugh I know, you all are right :( I honestly didn't even mean to lie, I just panicked when they asked who else I was talking to and blurted out names. But also do you think that a group might let it slide if they liked you enough and rank you highly anyways? Or would they at least ask me for an explanation before dinging me? It sucks because I think they really liked me, and I hope their whole impression of me isn't blown because of a little panic...
Also does anyone know whether groups have to submit their rankings the same day as interns? Or do they get more time?
Group Selection SA: Help (Originally Posted: 04/30/2009)
My choices are the following:
Sectors: Energy and Natural Resources Consumer, Retail and Healthcare Industrials and Manufacturing Infrastructure and Transport Telecoms, Media and Technology
Products: M&A Financial Institutions Advisory ECM Corporate Financing and Risk Solutions
Regardless of which bank I am working for, which sector/product should I choose? -that is most active right now, not decent going forward -not too specialized
Please rank them.
I am very interested in the Consumer, Retail, and Healthcare & Industrials and Manufacturing groups...but they seem to be pretty much dead and I am afriad that they won't be giving out fulltime offers as a result. Is that true?
Honestly, my ranking is something like this: 1. M&A 2. Industrials and Manufacturing 3. Consumer, Retail, and Healthcare 4. Energy and Natural Resources 5. Infrastructure and Transport 6. Telecoms, Media, and Technology 7. ECM 8. Financial Institutions Advisory 9. Corporate Financing and Risk Solutions
How would you rank them?
The bank makes a world of difference. Pick the group you're most interested in.
M&A would be my choice but bank does matter a lot
M&A will probably be top choice regardless of your bank, but industry coverage team really depends on the bank.
I am biased because that is the group that I work in, but I think Consumer products is the easiest and probably most interesting. Don't do Energy, I did my SA in Energy and it sucks.
Is it right to say that active sector teams are more likely to give out FT offers to their summer interns?
I would imagine that consumer and industrials are pretty much dead right now...so I am worried that they won't be giving out FT offers at all after the summer.
Which sector teams do much of their own modeling? I am assuming more specialized and comples sectors such as telecom, healthcare and energy groups do in-house modeling...whereas retail and industrials outsource some to the M&A product team?...is that true?
For the most part it is true. There is no way we would model an E&P oil and gas deal. No way, it is just too industry-specific for us. We'll do telecom and some healthcare, but not Energy, Power & Utilities, Financial Institutions, and a couple others I am forgetting.
Health Care M&A isn't that dead at all. Last year had a record number of small biotech firms being acquired by big pharma/biotech companies.
Big pharma/biotech will always need to fill expected and existing product pipeline gaps due to looming, and recent, patent expirations. They fill this gap through acquisitions if their internal R&D projects have failed to bring anything to the market at the time.
What is considered industrials?
I think anything between Caterpillar and Lockheed Martin. It's pretty broad. If a company doesn't fall into tech, media, energy, healthcare, real estate, consumer/retail, transportation/infra...then it's probably industrial. I think.
1 General Electric Co. 2 United Technologies Corp. 3 United Parcel Service, Inc. 4 3M Co. 5 The Boeing Co. 6 Lockheed Martin Corp. 7 Emerson Electric Co. 8 Union Pacific Corp. 9 Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corp. 10 Honeywell International Inc.
Here is an idea.
how's working in an energy group? anything particular to that sector? (i mean, work environment wise)
Alright, thanks guys. I think I made up my mind.
MonkeyKingdom,
What did you not like about the Energy Group you interned in as a Summer Analyst?
I don't have much (any) experience with group selection at this large of a scale, but from talking to friends who do, for SA I would suggest joining a group where the skills you learn are transferable across sectors. If you have an interest in TMT, I'd bump that above Energy and NatRes because it is more "general" in nature, where energy is more specific (as mentioned above). It's not like you wouldn't be able to switch out if you didn't like it, but it would just make a bunch of the stuff you learned useless (at least this is what I've been told). Of course, if you have a big interest in energy, go for it, but if energy and TMT are close, I'd suggest TMT.
have most places started sending out group placement info? im doing ibd SA at a bb but still haven't received info about this yet and my internship is in like 3 weeks...
Etiquette... SA group selection and FT offer question (Originally Posted: 02/09/2010)
after you have been offered a SA position and accepted it... is it appropriate or frowned upon to ask a group how many FT offers they make at the end of the summer when going through the group selection process?
Probably would have been better to ask that question before you accepted the offer- but I don't think it's out-of-bounds to ask HR as an "oh-by-the-way, just out of curiosity" kind of thing.
so ask HR about group specific offers and not the head of the group? Perhaps I am misunderstanding who extends the offer. I was under the assumption that it is the group you worked with all summer. No?
Where I worked, it was HR that makes the decision, based on the recommendations of your manager. I think it's similar at other firms. It doesn't hurt to ask if they know- if your pay comes out of their P&L, they would probably have more information than the group you'll be working for.
Don't ask this question. Regardless of whether or not it will hurt your rep, you won't get an answer that is going to be helpful. I promise you you'll get some variant of "We give offers to those we feel are qualified, if everyone is fantastic, we will give offers to everyone." No one is going to tell you "We have 5 summers, but only 2 will get offers."
Trust me, the historical offer ratio of any specific group will have very little impact on whether or not you get an offer at the end of the summer. It's all going to come down to your performance. You're either good enough or you're not, it is very rare that someone lands on the bubble.
One of my roommates- this was in 2007- was told along with the rest of his analyst class that his firm wouldn't be able to extend every qualified applicant an offer that summer- and they actually gave details on how many full-time offers would be made.
Maybe a more subtle way of asking would be "Will the hiring rate look more like 2006 or 2008?" It shows you know the numbers change every year- despite how many analysts are qualified- and allows them to avoid giving out specific numbers, so it's a question they may feel more comfortable answering.
CompBanker... Good call.... I'll just leave it be and focus on doing my best. Everything else will fall into place exactly as it should.
Thanks all.
Need advice - SA group placement at BB (Originally Posted: 04/24/2011)
Once you have your placement you are kind of stuck.
You need to do really well during the summer and be one of the best interns in DCM. During the internship/mid-term review they will ask you about your future goals, your thoughts, what you would like to do,ect. If you are one of the best interns they can give you a strong recommendation so that you might be able to move into a group you really want for FT. If you have a strong recommendation from DCM and their support in helping you secure a FT offer in a different group, there is still that issue of space as top groups may not need anyone besides the few offers they had out to their own interns, but that is a risk you have no control over. Kickass, play it by ear, and doors will be open at the end of the Summer.
Also, don't lose contact with people from other banks. I know a kid who killed it at his internship, but the group he wanted didn't need any more analysts besides the interns they had. He used contacts he had from another bank and got into the group he wanted at the other bank.
Second Gekko's last paragraph. Don't burn bridges is an obvious comment, but don't let any existing bridges crumble either. All that energy you spent networking with multiple firms doesn't need to be lost by you ignoring everyone once you committed to another firm for a summer. Parlay your offers with other banks, bounce around if you aren't happy. Successful SA experience will be hugely in your favor come FT recruiting.
i need to choose a group at jp corporate finance for a summer internship... (Originally Posted: 04/12/2007)
I am currently a junior and am working in corporate finance at JP Morgan this summer. I just got my information regarding their different groups and need to rank them soon. Does anyone have information about which are the groups to be in or which are the ones to avoid at JP? Any input would be greatly appreciated because right now I couldn't tell you much about the difference between them (especially the industry groups)
M&A.
people on this board will generally recommend M&A, sponsors, and LevFin for just about any bank (and TMT in some cases). Given, those groups usually are the strongest and usually have the best exit opps, but if you're interested in the oil & gas industry, or if you want to go into tech VC after banking, then you might want to do some more research into the relevant industry group.
Thank you. Great piece of advice. If you're interested in a particular industry, then you should choose that group. Other things you should ask about are the culture of the group, deal flow, things that acually matter in your two year experience. Don't pick groups based on exit opps. If you are a good analyst, you can create your own exit opps coming from any product/industry group.
lev fin is cool too.
at JPM....I know a few people there and they like it there. You'll get exposure to multiple industries and product groups. The group has about 50-60 people. Most interns that recieve offers (high offer rate) accept it and return to JPM for full-time. That should say something about the group.
Don't choose M&A ... I know a huge toolbag that will be working there full time. Avoid at all costs!
Are you going to be in Chicago or NY...? I am assuming NY because I believe all Chicago interns have their groups already.
yeah ill be in new york
?
SA group placement at BB NYC (Originally Posted: 04/24/2011)
Hey guys, I'm looking for some advice concerning the group selection process for my internship this summer.
It may be unusual, but I was told that I could have group rotations as an intern. I'm primarily interested in M&A so wouldn't mind sticking with one group for 10 weeks. However, since I have the option to work with another group for 5 weeks, I'm also considering an industry group. Do you think it's a dumb idea to divide my time like that? I fear I wouldn't be able to learn anything remotely valuable in 5 weeks. At the same time, if I choose to stay with one group for the entire summer, I feel like I'm missing out on the great opportunity. Please let me know your opinions. On a side note, a return offer is irrelevant because I've already had one. Thanks!
youll learn plenty in 5 weeks. dont forget you will be working very long hours, so i'm sure you would have great experiences working 5 weeks on both desks. I would say if you aren't 100% sure about where you'd like to work, then doing a rotation would be pretty helpful in the long run
Agreed. Taking 5 weeks in a product group like M&A (especially if it's a top bank) and another 5 in an industry group might give you the exposure that'll inform your FT placement. Only caveat would be if you are already dead-set on M&A and spending 10 weeks there will completely cement your FT placement in that group.
Thanks both! I'll pick two groups for the summer.
Need help choosing division for summer internships (Originally Posted: 06/04/2017)
I'm a student at a target with a 3.6. I want to enter banking/finance but how do I go about figuring out which division to apply for in August? Each bank also has its own different names for the divisions.
I would suggest going on each bank's website and looking at their 'about us' part or 'what we do' section. There you should find a description of what they do, the divisions they have etc.
how are groups assigned for summer analysts (Originally Posted: 02/11/2007)
JPM specifically if possible. What groups should i shoot for?
Not too sure about JPM specifically, but you will most likely get an e-mail asking you to rank your top 5 choices. Then they will send your resume to the groups and try to match you accoringly. There are some other threads on here about JPM groups, but as a summer, it's really not that big of a deal.
When you say "match you accordingly", what does that mean? Does the staffer for that group pick out who he wants the most?
Doesn't that basically mean the staffer that gets to the resumes first gets all the best candidates?
Can someone explain the process of "matching"?
The groups are notified which interns ranked them, and then they rank the interns (not just the staffer, but he/she has the final word). If your first choice group wants you as well, then it's a match made in heaven. If not, then hopefully your second, third, etc. choice will select you.
The groups receive all the resumes as well, but they don't necessarily get/want all the "best" candidates.
So say the Real Estate group gets a bunch of resumes, but no one ranked them #1. Can they just pick off the candidate that looks best on paper, although the candidate put the TMT group (or some other) as their #1?
How does the process guard against a group selecting a candidate when the candidate doesn't want to go to that group?
I don't think so. HR does their best to place interns in groups of their choice. I'm not sure about all the details of the process, but out of my entire summer analyst class, I never heard of anyone being placed in a group they didn't want.
Generally, there are desirable and undesirable groups at each bank. Most interns will rank the desirable groups first. The groups will rank the most desirable candidates (on paper) first (generally speaking, the most desiable candidates are those from the top target schools with high GPAs. There are always exceptions though (i.e. alum of your non-target school runs the group)). So yes, generally speaking the top candidates on paper are the ones who get into the top groups.
Does everyone within the group get to rank the analysts, or is it only Associates (or VPs) and above?
This whole process seems pretty random, and has me a bit worried going into the summer.
certain groups do get first dibs to choose the analyst they want
Everyone has a say, however the higher-ups have the final word.
There is nothing to worry about. You're only there for 10 weeks. No matter which group you're in, just be the top intern. If you are, you will definitely have much more leverage when it comes to choosing full-time groups. Don't worry, the group you're placed in during the summer will in no way affect your exit opps.
Intern Group Assignments (Originally Posted: 12/05/2011)
Hi,
I will be starting an internship in February (off-cycle) at a top BB (GS/MS/JPM) and I had to fill in an 'Intern Preference Form'. HR said that I can expect to hear which group I've been assigned to around 2 weeks - 1 month prior to starting my internship.
My question is this - what determines what group I'm placed in? I interviewed with an MD and Associate from the same desk, would it be worth me trying to contact them and would they have any say? Is there anything I can do to influence the decision?
Thanks
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