How Much Does Being "Likeable"/"Fun To Hang Out With" Matter for Getting Jobs?
Hi,
I was wondering if being a good BSer (and I mean, a really good BSer) or a fun person that can talk intelligently may be all you need sometimes to get internships. The reason I ask is because recently, I was talking to some family friends and discussed how I want to get into banking, but that internships are really hard to get. They then said that they know a couple of people who were very average (3.3 GPA from non-targets with generic ECs, etc.) but are working for good banks because they're very good talkers/very sociable and were smart enough to speak intelligently about finance, why they're interested, etc. I was wondering, since this is very anecdotal experience, if this is somewhat common or if this is a very rare situation. How much does just being fun to work with play into the grand scheme of things?
I wouldn't say it's rare.
I wouldn't say it's rare. Social skills definitely play a huge role once you land the interviews, especially during final rounds where there may be a social component (ie going out for dinner, drinks etc). GPA only really matters for landing first round interviews, but after that it's more about selling yourself and being personable. Of course you cant be 100% BS (there has to be some substance and content) but it can help a lot.
I guess I should add that
I guess I should add that these guys got positions in another country, but still. I was kind of shocked.
If it didn't matter what's
If it didn't matter what's the point of an interview? It definitely matters a ton, an interview is basically to show how much you know your stuff and whether or not you would be a good fi
Not rare at all. I think once
Not rare at all. I think once you get an interview, it doesn't matter your GPA as long as you can do 2 things:
A) Prove that you are likable and will be fun to hang out with at 2am while waiting to make another turn of a pitchbook; and
B) Prove that you have done your homework and know what you are getting into. Know the interview questions cold, both fit and technical.
Honestly, you aren't being hired as a finance guru. They know you know nothing. You just have to prove to them you will work hard and are fun to be with and work with. Definitely can be accomplished if you are a good BSer. I would be much more likely to hire a kid who seems like a hard worker that I could go and grab drinks with and a 3.2 GPA than a number crunching monkey with a 3.9 from Harvard that can't have a social conversation to save his life.
INTERVIEW GUIDES -- Technical, Fit and Networking... The Biz School Bible and More...
the best bs is proving you
the best bs is proving you can work more then others with a smile on your face while trying to get up to speed(learn)
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
Likeability is key... Don't
Likeability is key... Don't underestimate the importance of being able to work well with others... That being said don't think that you won't have to prove your technical competence
1/2 of the WSO Bash Brothers
"Licensed to Ill It"
We all know Bro J did it...
I can make people laugh and
I can make people laugh and it has def helped my career
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
Being likable is not only
Being likable is not only VERY important for getting a job, but also for succeeding in your job/career and succeeding in life. Exceptions apply (i.e. the person who cures cancer or invents the next Facebook), but 99% of the time it does matter.
fibows wrote: Being likable
Being likable is not only VERY important for getting a job, but also for succeeding in your job/career and succeeding in life. Exceptions apply (i.e. the person who cures cancer or invents the next Facebook), but 99% of the time it does matter.
great point.. sb for you
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
Some kids with a 4.0 only
Some kids with a 4.0 only have it because they are socially inept and nobody invites them anywhere, so they have all the free time and nothing else to do - the grades are earned by diligence, not necessarily the smarts.
More is good, all is better
Happened to me. I had a 3.3
Happened to me. I had a 3.3 when I was interviewing for full-time, no finance internships (just Big 4 audit the summer before), went to a non-target (at least in the fall of 2008, when I was interviewing, it was a non-target), and had a very small alumni base. I ended up at a middle market IB with a decent name at the time, and it clearly had NOTHING to do with my resume. I got four IB offers, none at BB shops (only got an interview at GS, as that was the only alum at a BB in banking), and at the firm I accepted from, I was competing against one kid for a single spot (only hiring one from FT recruiting). When I started, I saw this kid's resumes: 3.7 GPA from Columbia, interned at a comparable MM IB, and had solid finance experience before that. Why did I get the offer? Because I was relaxed and handled the interviews less like interviews and more like conversations, easy to speak with, showed a real interest in finance, and, contrary to what my GPA says, am absolutely brilliant. Just because one has a 3.3 GPA doesn't guarantee he is an idiot my friend. It all shows in an interview, and the job offer will be 95% based on the experience your interviewers have speaking with you and 5% based on miscellaneous factors (resume, connections, looks -- this may bump up to 10-20% if you're a hot chick).
Argonaut wrote: Some kids
Some kids with a 4.0 only have it because they are socially inept and nobody invites them anywhere, so they have all the free time and nothing else to do - the grades are earned by diligence, not necessarily the smarts.
Believe it or not, some people prefer learning and understanding new concepts thoroughly to getting shitfaced on the weekends. I guess you would consider me socially inept because I find most of the social activities at college fairly unappealing. I'm doing fine in the interview process so I guess I learned to fake "being social" pretty well.
Re: 3.3 vs 3.7, not that a 3.7 is much to brag about anyway, but unless the 3.7 was completely socially retarded and couldn't carry on a conversation, why would someone pick the 3.3? A 3.3 displays a serious lack of effort (unless you played a sport in college), so how can I be sure that you won't bring that same attitude to formatting pitch books?
Even for mind-numbing, mundane work like banking, give me a 3.9 from Harvard/MIT any day...
I guess it's fortunate for me
I guess it's fortunate for me that most people running the interview process don't share your sentiments. No offense, but you sound pretty lame. Not because you don't drink -- I couldn't care less -- but because of your condescension towards those who are enjoying the years where being irresponsible is totally acceptable. Why not go nuts while you can? In a couple of years, a lot of things will change and you'll never have those years back.
I already explained why someone would pick a 3.3 over a 3.7, and it's pretty simple: you're working with a person, not a number. GPA is a single component of a candidate's application, and quite frankly, it's more of a screener than anything else. If you can get through the screen with a 3.3, however that may be, the 3.3 isn't going to be the reason you don't get an offer. You might have to field a question or two about it, but if you're prepared, you'll be fine.
I also had a story behind my 3.3, which no one would have heard if they were like you. 3.0 my first two years, and a 3.9 during my junior year to bump the GPA when I began interviewing. I'm not suggesting that's impressive, but I am suggesting that I "modified" my focus between the end of sophomore year and beginning of junior year. And yes, I did play a D1 sport.
Honestly, as far as GPA goes,
Honestly, as far as GPA goes, it is what is is.
Getting a high GPA is usually some combination of: being decently intelligent, working hard, having an easy major, taking easy classes.
Conversely, having a low GPA probably implies at least one of these: had a hard major, took hard classes, didn't work hard, isn't very intelligent.
You just need ONE of those to have a mediocre (say 3.2-3.4) GPA. The first two really shouldn't bother an employer at all, while the last two are a bit concerning.
But even so, most college classes are useless anyway (in terms of helping you in your future career/life), so I don't typically judge people who slack off a bit. Better to get a 3.4 and actually spend some time on useful things than get a 3.9 by spending all your time reading Wittgenstein.
Really, the last one (not being intelligent) is the only one that I'd be concerned about, and interviews/puzzles are a better indicator of that way. Basically, GPA is a pretty crappy indicator that I wouldn't extrapolate too much from, as it doesn't tell you anything in particular...
SATs are a lot more useful, honestly.
I am myself a 3.9 / 4 GPA and
I am myself a 3.9 / 4 GPA and I believe this gives me no advantage whatsoever past the 1st round of interviews.
I agree with that a good GPA is important to get your foot in the first door (i.e. first round) and after that, it's all about being likeable / able to prove that you're the right person and you've got what it takes to succeed.
I find that being able to
absinthe wrote: Honestly, as
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
monty09 wrote: absinthe
Quote: ...condescension
godot
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
godot
godot
absinthe wrote: godot
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
I work at a hedge fund so not
Bondarb wrote: I work at a
WSO Conf - June 29, 2013
Bondarb wrote: I work at a
First of all, define behaving
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jimbrowngoU wrote: Happened
godot wrote: Argonaut
More is good, all is better
godot
More is good, all is better
if i have a 3.95 gpa do i
No Blastoise, you're an utter
More is good, all is better
I like how all these threads
Being likeable helps, but
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When you assume, you make an ass out of you... and only you.
Argonaut wrote: i don't know
godot wrote: Heh, I guess
More is good, all is better
midnight_oil wrote: I like
You just really need the
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I actually believe that the