how much networking is enough?
Most of the time I just email an analyst and then have a brief 15 minute phone informational interview with him or her. Is this enough to get at least a first round interview or do I need to do more?
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No, you need to follow up around the resume drop deadline and 1. bring up some point you talked about previously and 2. ask what you can do to best position yourself to get an interview because you're really interested in their firm.
To answer the thread's title, you have not networked enough until you get an offer that you like.
no. Even if they know you and like you, they still might not put enough effort in fighting for a spot for you. You need them to want you in the team so much that they'll look out for you instead of letting others handle your fate.
^ Bingo, they gotta fight for you. Otherwise when you're being discussed he'll remain in silence as your name gets stricken from the list of potential candidates. He'll let you down peacefully
Networking can hurt you just as easily as it can help you. The reason why people on WSO praise networking so much is that most of the time you don't even have a shot if you don't network, but networking does not necessarily mean you will get interviews if it's clear that you suck. The only reason I say this is because I didn't realize this until I was on the other side listening to people try to network with me (I'm an analyst).
Why would you ever stop? Networking is a key facet of Finance.
To echo CHItizen, you have networked enough when you get the job you want (for the time being). Don't be too aggressive, but there is nothing wrong with showing you really want the job.
I think everyone has hit the nail on the head here, but just to reiterate, I don't think you can ever truly network enough. In fact, I'd try to take a different mindset to it because if you view it as a responsibility, you'll probably hate investment banking. A lot of investment banking (at the higher levels) is building relationships with people, and honestly, it should be fun! You're getting access to great information, and it gives you a chance to get an insider perspective that you wouldn't otherwise glean from pure observation.
How much do you guys network? (Originally Posted: 01/14/2013)
I was just wondering on average how much people on this board (many of whom I assume do pretty well) network in terms of emails sent, phone calls, info sessions, etc. What's your estimate?
This isn't a very practical or effective way to measure your networking. Building relationships isn't something that perfectly translates to numbers and stats, which is why you might be struggling. Networking is more about the "how," not the "how much." Sure, all else being equal, someone who does things the right way and who reaches out more often will have better results due to the law of averages, but you shouldn't be focusing on simply sending out blast style emails. I think this is a common trait amongst kids who are from non-traditional backgrounds or who attend non target schools. They always like to say "I have sent out 200 emails, done 50 informational interviews, and have gotten 0 offers." Well honestly, a lot of the time it's because the 200 emails you sent out were generic or impersonal, the 50 coffee chats you had demonstrated that you know nothing about the industry, and you weren't worthy of an offer. But it's easier to amass large numbers of approaches so that you can support the delusion that "even if I'm doing it wrong and not getting the results I want, at least I'm doing something and I can point to my input as a result of that."
I think it is better for candidates to start small and put more investment into each networking opportunity. People tend to make decisions to help others when they are significantly invested in some way (often through time or money).
In short, if you change your philosophy on networking your results will likely improve.
SB for rufiolove. dead on.
I agree with most of what rufiolove said except that this is a common trait amongst targets and non-targets. I went to a non-target and when I see an opportunity to network/sell myself I capitalize on it. I never send generic emails one after another.I do not quantify my networking, but rather make sure I am actually reaching out to get to know someone. If you take the time to introduce yourself to someone, and learn about them and what they do, you will see far greater rewards then worrying about how many emails, phone calls, info sessions you get.
If I had to throw a number out, when I was reaching graduation it was definitely a couple of people a week. Now that I'm working, if I see someone in the NYC area that I think could help me and I would be interested in speaking to, I reach out. One or two people a month is probably a fair number to put on it.
An individual has to remember to keep up with their network as well, I reach out every two months to each one of my connections that I have a developed relationship with, just to get a status update or share a status update with them.
If you consciously think you're "networking" while you're doing it, it's not effective networking.
What ever happened to trying to get to really know someone, their interests, passions, unique stories, what makes them tick?
Fuck.
25/8
Nobody cares what you want, they only care about what you can do for them. Think about it.
rufiolove is definitely correct in that you can't be generic and you need to actually care about the person you are talking to...otherwise they will see straight through it.
everyone that you talk to KNOWS that you are reaching out so that they can help you with a job or advice or internship or whatever, but you have to make the conversation valuable to THEM as well. Ask them about their lives, their experiences and their opinions on things and IFF they like you then they may put in a good word for you. Getting to know someone like this will boost your chances a million times better than just email blasts.
That said, you also want to cover your bases and network with lots of different people. In the last few weeks I was constantly sending out emails to alumni and getting on the phone with them, multiple calls a day. After you talk to them, ask if they know anyone else you can talk to.
In my own experience, info sessions are not very useful at all. Yeah it is good to get a business card, but no one will really remember you amongst the 1000 kids fighting for a chance to talk. My own opinion, go in, don't fuck up, and talk for a few minutes. Then go home and send them a follow up email to chat on the phone.
Hate to say it but I mean it's getting pretty late in the process (for SAs) and you may face greater resistance if there are no spots left but it may be worth a shot at some banks? Not sure.
Anyways my 2c
slowly gets off building ledge
I started networking VERY late in the game for a few reasons, but I believe I have made a few meaningful connections I hope to cultivate even if I don't get interviews or offers. One thing I suggest is finding alumni at firms you want to be at and crafting a genuine email stating your interest in the industry, their firm, and their experience. From there, just be natural and be able to keep up a good conversation. I feel that non-targets trying to connect with their alumni are in a pretty good position because the alumni have been in the same, tough situation. Also, don't underestimate networking with other students at your school who are still in undergrad but have/had SA opportunities previously. A lot of my peers have been a great help in terms of introducing me to helpful alumni and sharing resources. I would definitely try to build relationships with alumni and other groups with whom you have something major in common before trying to network with random people. If your alumni like you enough, they'll introduce you to the more senior people as time goes on and they're assured you know your stuff. Sorry for the rambling.
How much do people network? 24/7. You network until you get that first job, and then you're networking from that moment until the day you die. Every relationship you cultivate, whether it be with friends, colleagues, or other professionals can be considered networking. When you start to try and quantify "how much" you network, you are no longer networking effectively, at least in my opinion.
Had to throw some SBs into this topic.
If you aren't approaching every interaction as a networking opportunity you aren't doing it right. That random dude you meet at a stop light while waiting to walk across the intersection could be an MD at BB IB or a PM at a megafund. If nothing else talking to random people will help your social skills and might allow you to pick up chicks at a bar.
heister, I've gotten used to your more hilarious, troll-esque posts. Why are you trying to confuse us with helpful posts?
I'm sure I do all of the "networking" things like everyone else, but I also coach basketball, baseball, and football for a boys league in a very affluent part of town. Most of the dads are lawyers, surgeons, business owners, etc.. but there are quite a few well-to-do finance types as well (IB, MF/HF, PE, etc..). It's a networking goldmine for someone in their 20s like me. It's a fairly large time committment on my part so the parents are more than willing to do me a small favor by meeting with me or grabbing lunch to discuss career advancement, bschool, etc... I've never needed to use any of these contacts to directly advance my career, but I'm sure that time will come one day. I really do love coaching, but it is nice to have the networking piece as an added benefit.
I think the best networking occurs when you lay the foundation for the relationship without having any current need for anything.
Nice try, but I'm pretty sure your court ordered community service does not count as networking.
Ahh the numbers game. It doesn't work, trust me. My sex life can vouch for that.
strongly disagree with rufio. if you have any social skills whatsoever, 50 informational interviews WILL yield offers. if you have 200 calls, 50 info interviews and 0 offers that means ure pretty freaking awkward.
Not really, it can really be up to chance if there's a job position open.
.
One additional note: If you're going to actively network, don't be lazy and don't complain. It's a common thing for students to tell me that they've been "really busy with class and homework" and that's why they haven't yet done XYZ. This leaves a terrible impression. How am I supposed to help you to get a job when you outright tell me that you can't multi-task or that your workload is more than you can handle? Most of the people here are networking with finance professionals who balance a much greater workload on an ongoing basis. Be smart about what you say. Same goes for if you've set up a time to meet or talk. Don't cancel last minute unless you've got a really good reason. The person has never worked with you before and these impressions count more than you realize.
How much to network (Originally Posted: 07/21/2014)
Hi guys,
I'm a rising junior at a West Coast target/semi-target with a moderately low (3.3) after my first semester here after transferring from a non-target with a 3.5. I'm trying to get an IBD SA position next summer either at an MM, EB/BB, preference for MM. This summer I'm interning at a small PE shop as well as a F500 aerospace contractor in their business management division.
I've had a little more than 40 informational phone calls with alumni at all of the BB, and a few at MM banks.
They've all been pretty helpful, but only about 20 guys have asked for my resume, with all of them saying to reach back out to them when recruiting ramps up.
I know I should keep networking and that no amount of calls is 'enough', but I just wanted to know how many successful calls/coffee meets are good enough to land first round OCR interviews. I am keeping in touch with all of my contacts via email.
Just wanted to ask how much you guys networked to land first rounds, and how I can get more guys to ask for my resume.
Thanks a lot.
I think a good way to approach is it to compile a list of your target banks, should be atleast 20 banks... And try and make contacts at all of them. I would say a good number is 3 to 4 per bank, and you could also try to network with different locations as they will do recruiting separately.
Thanks for the reply, appreciate it. I'll try reaching out to different offices now
buy some kneepads you'll need it
Lol what
937 is the exact number I needed... cmon man what type of question is how much to network? The answer is as much as you can/need to/ are willing to etc depending on your goals. I'd basically go through your alumni network, make a list of anyone who is a person of interest and try and reach out to them and try to chat. I always included my resume in networking emails to "give them a better idea of my background" and then after chatting with them I casually ask them about internship opportunities towards the end of the call.
Sounds like you have a list of where you want to work, reach out to someone if not a few people at each of those banks and you'll be fine. In my opinion the only upper limit to networking is if you start to have multiple "forced contacts" within the same organization with a forced contact being someone who is not an alumni,friend, or someone you were referred to. Don't be the weird kid who has friended everyone single person in the Evercore/Houlihan etc SF office and has sent them all emails asking to talk.
Lastly, don't be afraid to lose networking connections if people aren't going to help you. In my opinion (and some might disagree) Its better to have 10 strong connections where guys will go to bat for you vs 20 people who just chatted with you on the phone and gave you some generic advice. I remember every once in a while I'd set up a networking call with a guy who either didn't know shit about the internship program or didn't want to know shit and wasn't willing to point me in the right direction. So I'd thank them for their time and either find someone else at that bank, or just cross it off my list.
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