How do you become successful?
What are the steps to become successful and make it into these high paying careers? What's the most important thing to stand out?
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Math skills
Hmm let's see. A quant with numbers shoved in his ass all day of a telemarketer at a boiler room? The beauty of it is a quant needs a PHD a telemarketer needs a HS diploma and people skills. And don't say "it's not like in the movies." I have a friend who works in a small shop and he's doing pretty damn well. He said he made around 60-70k last year.
Are you positive you're not a troll? I just want to point out that pretty much any entry-level position in risk, which you can get with a BA in Econ, pays upwards of $75k. Also, equities sales or pretty much any institutional sales role, which does require a degree as well, will pay you well over $70k with commissions.
Assuming you're not actually fucking with the collective user base of this site, I just want to say that you're unnecessarily setting your sights ridiculously low. College isn't hard, it isn't hard to succeed with a non-target school degree so long as you hustle, and money isn't hard to get if money is really what you want. Idk man, just my thoughts.
Also, I definitely don't have a PhD, though some of my peers might. That should be an example of how far hustle can get you.
But fuck it, what do I know besides some nonsense math.
Lmao the ironic thing is that being a telemarketer is like being in the movies. It's portrayed as a shit job where everyone hates their life and is trying to find something else to do. Telemarketers make shit, your friend is bullshitting you.
Edit: Should've learned my lesson, you're obviously a troll. Telemarketers make a tad bit more than a first year credit analyst at BAML? You know the average salary for a telemarketer is a bit south of 20k/year, right?
Yea it's not exciting, and he has no reason to lie. I mean he's probably just really good and at the right place making that much.
Anyways these top jobs all of you drool over are .001% for me.
Dude, you are such a troll. At first you say, "don't tell me like it's not like the movies, I have friends who make 60k! BAML analysts make nothing!" then "okay, BAML makes 60k and bonus, but telemarketers make a tad more." then, "yeah, he's just an anomaly and really good (which means 99.9% of people aren't)."
And wtf do the top jobs being .001% for you even mean?
I mean that when I ask this type of question I don't want typical response of "it's not like in the movies."
Also I said my friend makes 60-70k so you clearly didn't read the the entire part. I can be good like him also.
Only top students at top schools with top degrees will make it far. Others don't stand a chance.
You said
so you clearly don't even know what you're saying at this point? And it's not like it is in the movies. The .001% top students you think about that get jobs in high finance are no different than your single friend you know that told you he made 60k (which is probably bullshit) and you thinking you can do the same. Do you realize on Glassdoor the absolute max telemarketer salary is listed at 29k? Not even half of what your friend told you what he made? You're a joke.
This is untrue. I went to a very non target where no BBs have ever recruited but I spent 2 years on the grind- applying to hundreds of positions, reading, and networking very hard. I finally got a credit analyst position at a state bank after two years of BB I had 1 year of semi-relevant experience and was able to learn a lot there. I was similar to you when I was your age. Nobody could tell me anything and I sought out those who would tell me what I wanted to hear, specifically in the context of people who were validating my choice to go to a non target instead of take the top 20 because I was dating a girl who was living in that area. I ignored those who told me to go to the target school because it wasn't guaranteed and I would have to go into the liberal arts school and transfer in to the business school. I did myself a HUGE disservice by being narrow minded and will never know what would have been if I went to that school and got the network. In summary, your hard work can get you into a good school that's not necessarily a target and your determination and intelligent strategic networking will get you good opportunities. However, the first step is you must be open minded and listen to advice you don't want to hear even if it's uncomfortable, and do the hard stuff in life because at the end of the day, your results will be attributable to your hard work or the absence thereof.
Clearly you have it figured out by the comments to Kassad ...why post?
I posted because I can?
Wondering about how you guys broke in too.
Guys, the OP is another stereotypical millennials who want to chase "passion" and "success" - money ain't no passion to him, so no need to talk about real life stuff.
OP - if you seek advise, listen. Do not argue or try to be a smart ass. When computers are turned off, you are the unsuccessful one who has no money and can't do shit.
Making money is what I'm passionate about. Not sure if you have been reading the comments above
Slinging heroin would prob make you a bit of cash quickly. I watched a video on facebook about two 20 somethings who made 18k in two days.
I can order off the darknet and flip it. Anyone who has messed/sold this stuff knows it's not worth the trouble that comes along with it. I know people who got robbed at gunpoint and gave up all their money and dope just to walk away alive.
You must not have a drive to succeed if fear is your reason. Damn millennials. :/
I think this is the dawn of a new era on WSO. The dawn of the method-actor troll. Someone so demented, so cruel, so inconceivably evil that they convince us of their innocent ignorance, only to laugh at our altruism from behind their computer screen. This could be even worse than the dawn of fake news, and it could be the end of WSO as we know it. Overblown? Maybe. But true? Also maybe.
I feel you, man. WSO has become a shit show these days. Some level of trolling is entertaining, but this kid along with Goldstein series, xgozax, etc. are ruining the whole site. Some millennials complaining about being always "FUCKED" and "SCREWED" (yes, all caps) just because they forgot to say please in their cold emailing urk the shit out of me. Let's stop replying to these fucks.
I'm just trying to seek a better path since IB is a low chance for me, what is wrong with that dude?
Also, millennials think they're entitled to IB just because they think they're special. I'm the exact opposite so find a new insult rather than calling me a millennial.
Literally made a thread about this. More needs to be done from the mods to get this person off this site. Super burdensome now.
I mean, I appreciate the advice. I just want to get advice on a different, non-traditional path because IB is a low chance for me. I appreciate the advice really.
Thanks for the advice everyone. Anything else?
Troll. Like you do
I've been getting some great advice actually. I was really stressed out this week so I apologize if I came off as disrespectful
There are hundreds of different ways to success. If you limit yourself to the traditional IB route (as the one and only), you're going to be bitterly disappointed. As I have pointed out in other threads, and others have too, the road to typical Wall Street / City type jobs can be hard to land, if you do not have the "correct" background. There are so many applicants, which translates to noise for the people hiring.
If you can't land a job the regular way, you just have to keep grinding and sending out applications, networking your ass off, until you hit that small opening. If you're lucky enough to do that, you then work really f'ing hard, so that you can leverage that position for a better one.
If you're young and still a student, it's no big deal. You can always take up classes to better you GPA (if it sucks), join some clubs, and maybe hope for a transfer to better schools. Hell, you still have lots of time to polish your resume (with a solid plan). Imagine how much it must suck to be in your late 20's / early 30's, and discover the world of finance? For 99.9999%, that train has left the station years ago.
And even if you manage to land a nice IBD job at a legit firm, it's no guarantee for your definition of success. The vast majority of analysts never end up as MD's at a the various banks, fund managers at hedge funds, partners at PE firms, or whatever successful job you can think of. Lots of people just work there a couple of years, go to Business School, and get some pretty ordinary F500 jobs. They're not unsuccessful, it's just that they usually have different priorities. Monetary successful jobs tend to be very competitive, stressful, and demanding.
Yes, Finance has traditionally been the "safe" way to high-paying jobs, that only requires a sharp brain and good work ethics. Fresh clay for the mold.
I brought this up multiple times when people were asking why I wanted to be a telemarketer. They think that I'm a special snowflake and I will get into IB BC of yada yada. I'm setting the bar lower since I'm not intelligent like the Wharton kids. Like you said, I don't want to disappoint myself.
Btw, I remember you brought up great advice on making money off cryptocurrencies, mind if I PM you? I can become successful by making some money off them, maybe.
Inspiration : How Bad Do You Want It? (Success) (Originally Posted: 12/15/2011)
How badly do you want to succeed? Do you actually live, breathe, think, and sleep for success ... or are you simply mouthing the words, going through the motions, living a very lie?
This is pretty powerful. I don't like talking about my personal background here, but I found so much of what the narrator said resonating strongly with me. It is an attitude that has literally kept me alive.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/7X38PCf7kao
This is awesome. Great find. Makes me wanna go out and be a football player now lol
The full speech if anyone's interested:
A Posse Ad Esse, I completely agree man and thanks for reviving this video. The same video was actually posted a while back here:
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/success-how-bad-do-you-want-it
Awesome video, I actually have put a link for that video as well as a link to the following article on a few of my responses to people asking for advice about getting into investment banking. That video and this article were huge motivational pieces that really helped push me to work hard and eventually get my FT offer.
If this doesn't motivate you, then you're pretty much just hopeless
On the other hand, I think that if you need a video or speech to tell you how much you want something...then you're pretty hopeless. The source of ambition and drive shouldn't be coming from youtube videos.
Nice post, A Posse Ad Esse.
A little unrelated, but if this doesn't make you think or give you goosebumps something is wrong with you (and this was done ~65 years ago):
hell yea
actually this sucks and is stupid after watching it -1 op
omg not this shit again. Now we'll see all the old videos again.
I mean, does he really want it?
Awesome post! Friend of mine sent me this a couple months ago. Looked up Eric Thomas (the guy who gave the speech) and his story very inspiring. And yea check out the entire speech he gave to students at MSU (I think?).
I do miss doing football drills...
It's things like this that make the rest of the world laugh at America.
Agreed
I'd have to disagree with you there. The "In pursuit of happYness" part of American culture seems to travel quite well and certainly leaves a more positive impression outside of your borders, even though it happens to be very sentimental. Anecdotally, I met up with some international bankers who were recently dismissed from work and one of them mentioned that he was going to watch that Will Smith movie again.
The things that the rest of the world laughs at are more along the lines of the over-commercialisation of American sport, calling your version of rugby "Football", cheering "USA" when both teams (or opposing players) are American, perceived general ignorance of issue outside US borders among your political elite, frat-house/university culture, etc... That kind of thing.
The video this guy posted is actually pretty cool and, to my non-US eyes at least, very American in a good way.
I'm all for a good hype up video, but this one sucks. The workout is nothing special and the story is stupid. Some old guy tried to drown you? Fuck his shit up. Being the pussy that lets an old guy almost drown you definitely makes you the guy that doesn't have success.
This is great stuff. Thank you
The rest of the world laugh at America? Surely you don't mean bankrupt Europe or the other people in the world who live at a lower level than the poorest Americans (while drinking a coke, wearing Nike's and watching MTV).
Great video. Seen it before, but great to see the level of commitment and drive this dude has.
1 A staggering 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be "low income" or are living in poverty.
2 Approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in homes that are either considered to be "low income" or impoverished.
3 If the number of Americans that "wanted jobs" was the same today as it was back in 2007, the "official" unemployment rate put out by the U.S. government would be up to 11 percent.
4 The average amount of time that a worker stays unemployed in the United States is now over 40 weeks.
5 One recent survey found that 77 percent of all U.S. small businesses do not plan to hire any more workers.
6 There are fewer payroll jobs in the United States today than there were back in 2000 even though we have added 30 million extra people to the population since then.
7 Since December 2007, median household income in the United States has declined by a total of 6.8% once you account for inflation.
8 According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 16.6 million Americans were self-employed back in December 2006. Today, that number has shrunk to 14.5 million.
9 A Gallup poll from earlier this year found that approximately one out of every five Americans that do have a job consider themselves to be underemployed.
10 According to author Paul Osterman, about 20 percent of all U.S. adults are currently working jobs that pay poverty-level wages.
11 Back in 1980, less than 30% of all jobs in the United States were low income jobs. Today, more than 40% of all jobs in the United States are low income jobs.
12 Back in 1969, 95 percent of all men between the ages of 25 and 54 had a job. In July, only 81.2 percent of men in that age group had a job.
13 One recent survey found that one out of every three Americans would not be able to make a mortgage or rent payment next month if they suddenly lost their current job.
14 The Federal Reserve recently announced that the total net worth of U.S. households declined by 4.1 percent in the 3rd quarter of 2011 alone.
15 According to a recent study conducted by the BlackRock Investment Institute, the ratio of household debt to personal income in the United States is now 154 percent.
16 As the economy has slowed down, so has the number of marriages. According to a Pew Research Center analysis, only 51 percent of all Americans that are at least 18 years old are currently married. Back in 1960, 72 percent of all U.S. adults were married.
17 The U.S. Postal Service has lost more than 5 billion dollars over the past year.
18 In Stockton, California home prices have declined 64 percent from where they were at when the housing market peaked.
19 Nevada has had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation for 59 months in a row.
20 If you can believe it, the median price of a home in Detroit is now just $6000.
21 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 18 percent of all homes in the state of Florida are sitting vacant. That figure is 63 percent larger than it was just ten years ago.
22 New home construction in the United States is on pace to set a brand new all-time record low in 2011.
23 As I have written about previously, 19 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 34 are now living with their parents.
24 Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of inflation for five years in a row.
25 According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted for just 9.5% of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account for approximately 16.3%.
26 One study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.
27 If you can believe it, one out of every seven Americans has at least 10 credit cards.
28 The United States spends about 4 dollars on goods and services from China for every one dollar that China spends on goods and services from the United States.
29 It is being projected that the U.S. trade deficit for 2011 will be 558.2 billion dollars.
30 The retirement crisis in the United States just continues to get worse. According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, 46 percent of all American workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and 29 percent of all American workers have less than $1,000 saved for retirement.
31 Today, one out of every six elderly Americans lives below the federal poverty line.
32 According to a study that was just released, CEO pay at America's biggest companies rose by 36.5% in just one recent 12 month period.
33 Today, the "too big to fail" banks are larger than ever. The total assets of the six largest U.S. banks increased by 39 percent between September 30, 2006 and September 30, 2011.
34 The six heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton have a net worth that is roughly equal to the bottom 30 percent of all Americans combined.
35 According to an analysis of Census Bureau data done by the Pew Research Center, the median net worth for households led by someone 65 years of age or older is 47 times greater than the median net worth for households led by someone under the age of 35.
36 If you can believe it, 37 percent of all U.S. households that are led by someone under the age of 35 have a net worth of zero or less than zero.
37 A higher percentage of Americans is living in extreme poverty (6.7%) than has ever been measured before.
38 Child homelessness in the United States is now 33 percent higher than it was back in 2007.
39 Since 2007, the number of children living in poverty in the state of California has increased by 30 percent.
40 Sadly, child poverty is absolutely exploding all over America. According to the National Center for Children in Poverty, 36.4% of all children that live in Philadelphia are living in poverty, 40.1% of all children that live in Atlanta are living in poverty, 52.6% of all children that live in Cleveland are living in poverty and 53.6% of all children that live in Detroit are living in poverty.
41 Today, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of every four American children is on food stamps.
42 In 1980, government transfer payments accounted for just 11.7% of all income. Today, government transfer payments account for more than 18 percent of all income.
43 A staggering 48.5% of all Americans live in a household that receives some form of government benefits. Back in 1983, that number was below 30 percent.
44 Right now, spending by the federal government accounts for about 24 percent of GDP. Back in 2001, it accounted for just 18 percent.
45 For fiscal year 2011, the U.S. federal government had a budget deficit of nearly 1.3 trillion dollars. That was the third year in a row that our budget deficit has topped one trillion dollars.
46 If Bill Gates gave every single penny of his fortune to the U.S. government, it would only cover the U.S. budget deficit for about 15 days.
47 Amazingly, the U.S. government has now accumulated a total debt of 15 trillion dollars. When Barack Obama first took office the national debt was just 10.6 trillion dollars.
48 If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S. national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 440,000 years to pay off the national debt.
49 The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4 billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration.
50 During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that Bill Clinton took office.
I couldn't care so much about the video. Dude is jacked for word ... cared about the message.
good one
As bad as he wanted it, he was still a career backup at East Carolina (not your powerhouse program) and didn't make it to NFL. You still need talent, and everyone else is probably practicing the same amount, if not more.
Hey woah, Chris Johnson came out of ECU haha. You're completely right though.
Yeah first I checked to make sure it was not Chris Johnson pre-bling.
Success: How bad do you want it? (Originally Posted: 09/06/2011)
http://www.wimp.com/wantsuccess/
just thought i'd share this video.
just do it.
Love the part about wanting success more than sleep. Sums up the banking mentality pretty well. There is no free lunch.
Thanks! Here's the video below for convenience.
This is going to be key for all of us entering the job market this year (actually, for anyone). Amidst all the pessimism and hard economic times, I hope we can find a way to rise above it all.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Jal4OkZtz8g
great share!
Just forwarded this to three people. Great video.
Haha love your avatar bro.
Also, is this just some guy who is training or did he actually make it to the NFL or something?
Gotta start watching this every morning when I get up...
YES! Loved it, really powerful stuff.
Really good message there. Says you will become truly successful once you don't need the money to fuel you. Think about the really successful billionaire investors, they just do it because they love the game.
This guy wants to be successful by playing football. He will go his way because he has played football since his childhood and he loves playing football.
Most bankers gotta aks themselves if they really love banking. Even if you make money as banker, you could never be a winner when banking doesn´t make much fun.
What do you think what is the message of this video? Success = money? Succes = achievement for what we love to do?
Most bankers I know hate their jobs. I would never call them as successful people.
He has had contacts to some scouts from the NFL.
He seems to make his dream real soon if he keeps working hard and no injuries come.
This is amazing.
Wow what a coincidence, I just rewatched this today on my own, and here it is on the front page of WSO.
How successful are people (Originally Posted: 12/01/2010)
who perfectly followed the Goldman/Morgan to TPG/KKR to HBS career path? It would be interesting to see how they all turned out, whether they became Partners at TPG/KKR now or decided to settle down with a family and work at a less-stressful job, and if so, if working their asses off for the majority of their youth was worth it.
Any one have any anecdotes/friends who went this path?
I was a 2005 analyst so, most of my class and the couple before me recruited into PE/HF for 2005/2006/2007 starts, the handful that went to mega funds, went to HBS/GSB, and ended at fairly brand name shops. Shops ranging from Lindsay Goldberg up to Paulson/Soros/Moore.
From the guys I kept up with didn't see anyone go from like a Francisco Partners --> Wharton --> TPG, but they would go to a comparable shop whether in tech of similar sized fund...
Those that went from TPG/KKR/BX/H&F/Bain Cap/SLP --> HBS/GSB --> comparable fund/top-tier HF
I thought francisco partners was a solid shop? Or am I wrong about that?
Do the people you know who went to paulson/soros/moore type places, go to b-school before ending up there or did they make the jump straight from the sell-side? I imagine if you can land paulson without b-school, there's no need to get your MBA.
I have a friend who did 3 years Lazard, a year at real-estate PE fund before it was acquired by Apollo, and is currently a VP. For someone who achieved what is regarded as true objective success, he doesn't seem to be too happy about it.
The thing is, sooner or later, most people begin to realize that as they get older, money and prestige are not sufficient to bring fulfillness. Remember that child-hood giddiness you might've had, dreaming about being an astronaut, an aerospace engineer, an archaeologist, a pilot? Very few 10 year olds have dreams about being in investment banking / private equity.
Unfortunately - by that time, most risk-averse individuals (i.e. the type that enters finance), are shackled by golden-hand-cuffs. They make a good living, enough to support a family, not enough to truly achieve permanent financial security (i.e. they can't just quit their jobs). It's also too late for most of them to pursue what they truly may have wanted to do in life (e.g. become a pilot or something).
People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.
so where do you fit in here? were you one of those rare 10 year olds?
speak for yourself.
being a pilot would be boring as shit. becoming an astronaut/aerospace engineer would require years studying extremely difficult shit all day just to get a shot, and the success rate is far lower than in any other field. 10 year olds don't know shit about anything other than whats been glorified in popular culture.
private equity/hedge fund work on the other hand is exciting and challenging. if successful you can find yourself truly powerful. detectives can have 10 year olds fantasize about their jobs after watching CSI:Miami, i would rather take my bonus please.
Well said.
What most people want to be when they're ten is heavily influenced on uniform. Very small children want to be firemen, police officers, and doctors because their snazy outfits are easily recognizable as symbols of authority and prestige. For children who are just beginning to grasp social norms this can be very powerful.
Also, you should poll all those friends who didn't manage to make it in finance and instead followed their dreams to art school. I imagine those friends are not nearly as happy as your VP banker.....
This is fucking depressing.
Personally I like what I do, but I'm not in Banking/PE. Obviously I'll never know if there was a better path in terms of personal satisfaction and accomplishment (probably), but I definitely find my job very personally challenging and hence fulfilling.
They could cut my paycheck in half and I would probably still do this over most other jobs. Actually, never mind I would probably go play online poker if they did that lol.
Also, I know some people in PE who really enjoy it. Not my type of thing, but hey.
:o that's nice but scary mate.
He didn't define the number of days in between waking and sleeping. So yes, bankers are included? :)
With all due respect, moving money in the market is a tangible good. Controlling risk distribution to those most willing to pay for it? Like selling hotdogs, but where the hotdogs are money. I think being a banker is a respectable job and I'd take your finance offer if you don't like it? I'm not including unethical and immoral bankers in the mix though so feel free to shoot them down.
John Wooden on success
http://www.chs.riverview.wednet.edu/Staff/Hall/pyramid_of_success_john_…
+1 on the Coach reference, LIBOR.
I actually got to meet him a couple times and he was a truly incredible person. I loved to hear him talk about "Lewis" (Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) and for some reason I always remember a crack Adam Carolla made once on The Man Show:
"That was back before Lew Alcindor became Cassius Clay..."
a man is successful if he wakes up in the morning, goes to bed at night, and does what he wants in between
most people use this "attitude" to backwards rationalize/justify their unproductive lifestyles. ironically they up the most unfulfilled.
That would discount bankers then wouldn't it? They work on DCF models late into the night, they don't sleep.
Prestige is a glorious thing. That said, the main reason I pursue prestige at this point in my career is not to feel good about myself (people that do that are lame / have personal issues). The main reason is that my experience working at a first time private equity fund has shown me that prestige and track record are crucial to being able to raise capital from limited partners. I want to have my own PE fund on day, and I'll need to have worked at some successful PE shops / banks and have built relationships and a reputation in the industry before I can do that... The ultimate goal for any true PE player should be to start your own Fund... not have the "prestige" of working at BX / KKR... I'd rather have my own 500mm fund (chairman/ceo) then be a SMD at blackstone making the same amount of money... the sky is the limit if you're the boss and you don't have to take shit from anyone (other than your LPs)
Are bankers even assigned any prestige these days? After getting bailed out by the gov't for all the mayhem they caused and destroying people's 401k's and home values? (At least that's what the public narrative is) If anything, I personally go around telling people "Yeah, I got an offer in finance. I know, I know, the only reason I'm taking it is because I got rejected from Google and Facebook... :( " (I'm a software dev by the way)
What tangible good do bankers do for society that would give them any form of prestige? A doctor and fireman save people's lives. A soldier risks (and often gives) their lives to fight for freedom, supposedly. A software engineer at Google, Apple, or Facebook makes a product that simplifies people's lives and/or enriches their experiences. What does a banker do for anyone besides himself or herself?
Jealousy is not prestige. People are jealous of bankers and high-end prostitutes, but they don't admire them. But people admire soldiers, doctors, firefighters, and Peace Corps volunteers, but aren't jealous of them.
bankers are the oil in the engine of the global economy. Their highly specialized skills are what makes the world go around. their work is helping develop markets around the world and bringing hundreds if not thousands of people out of poverty every day.
sorry double post
I've been an aerospace engineer, and my best friends are fighter/helicopter pilots. Both of my parents are cops. I have friends who are doctors. We all agree--these jobs are OVER RATED. With exception of being a doctor (if you can get past the shitty years). Its a good way to start a career, not end one.
To me, enjoying life means making enough money to do what I want and support my family. It's not retirement if all you can afford to do is watch TV and eat at home, and have health insurance.
Yes those jobs are "overrated," that's what I was saying. They are prestigious jobs to the outside observer, which leads to their high "ratings" so to speak, that ultimately the jobs don't live up to (thus the word "over-rated"). If you're a firefighter, you don't spend all day rescuing babies from burning buildings, or saving people's lives from falling skyscapers.
But if you're a firefighter, people see you AS A HERO. Doesn't matter whether you actually are. Doesn't matter whether you just spend all day sitting on your ass playing Xbox because there are no fires to fight. People will pay you respect and deference. That's what prestige is. It's an appearance, not a reality. If you're a firefighter, people will buy you drinks "for your service and heroism." When has anyone ever considered a banker a hero?
^I sincerely hope this was sarcasm
Don't think so. Look at gupta23's comment history:
"because he's a fuckinn cunt" //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/md-added-me-on-linkedin
"this reminds me of people at my fob-ass school with 3.4s trying to list 3.5s because they think that "3.5 is the cutoff for banking" what a fuckin jokeeeeeeeeeee" //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ive-got-a-question-about-resumes-for-pep…
"this bitch reminds me of tha motherfuckin fobs at U of T's undergrad business program" //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/this-is-how-your-application-should-look…
"uofh girl = $cum" //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/summer-analyst-position-at-barclays?page…
"BO = SCUM" //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-back-office-employees-at-bb%E2%80%99…
This gupta23 character is consistently misogynistic, racist, xenophobic, and has zero spelling or grammar skills. Most damning, though, is that he isn't funny, lol. It's mouth-breathing idiots like him that give this board a bad rep
Lol, Does anyone remember what Gupta posted as an OP in the thread he now tried to delete? Let me guess, he wanted to know the best route from Jr. High to GS...
Gupta, I crown you the asshat of the day. Congratulation. Try not to let the crap get on your face.
^LOL
guys, who the fk cares whether the average joe thinks u have a prestigious job or not? as a banker you don't interact with the average joe. don't try to impress people that are irrelevant.
Of course I know the so-called "benefit that bankers serve to society" as the oil in capitalism, except I think most rational people wouldn't call it a "benefit to society" to promote and expand a global corporate supply-chain that:
Exploits foreign children in sweatshops
Clear cuts rainforests, permanently destroying thousands of unique species and altering the global climate
Drops Agent Orange on tons civilian populations, leading to birth defects for generations
Has chemical plant explosions that kill hundreds of thousands, then bribes gov't officials to look the other way
Profits from war and lobbies to invade other countries for oil
Yes there are some ethical corporations, such as Google. But there are many, many more Monsantos, Blackwater/Xes, Halliburtons, Dow Chemicals, BPs, Nikes, McDonalds, and Apples. By and large, corporations have no conscience. If a corporation is a "person", then it's a "person" whose only sense of pleasure is from profit and whose only sense of pain is loss.
corporations are established to create profits for their shareholders. don't blame them for achieving their objective o0. They serve society through creating wealth for society, providing jobs, technological innovation, new consumer products.That's what they are made for. Corporations act ethically if it is in their best interest to do so, and do not act ethically if it is not aligned with shareholder interest.
^^^Google is far from an ethical company. Truly, how can it be? They possess information about everyone and everything. There isn't any need to back up my assumptions once you realize the this is not a tech/engineering company. It is an INFORMATION company. With that much power, you actually can make less money, by making too much. Think about it...
People only pursue prestige because they are brainwashed into a society that glorifies money and suppresses independence and free thought. We are encourage to spend, spend spend! by our government and corporations, don 't you ever wonder why are they always telling us to spend money??? They want us to become social slaves, slaves to them, so we can further dilute our minds with nonsensical objects,prestige jobs, and meaningless television shows. Once our life becomes "spend, spend, spend!" we are forced into wage slavery. Society makes it so that we HAVE to work to support our debt and our lifestyle. That is how so many people become depressed. unhappy, and truly resort to medications, alcohol, and watching television. All three of which pre-occupy your time just enough so that you never questions "why"?
Luxury items and material possessions are non-indespensable, but a positive hindrance to the elevation of mankind-Henry David Thoreau.
+1 This is the root of it all. Allegory of the Cave anyone? Philosophy should be taught in grade school maybe then we'll have better thinkers.
oh no we r getting into the corporation govt. argument again didnt you have this ages ago in another thread over 3 pages libor?
haha yeah. I could probably write a book on it lol.
LeveragedFiend,
You would ask the antebellum plantation owner's children whether slavery benefits society, wouldn't you?
Because that's what we are. We're like the children of plantation owners. We're born as beneficiaries of a callous, soulless system that squeezes the lifeblood out of hardworking children around the world and which rewards us with cheap computers. We didn't ask to be born with a silver spoon in our mouths or blood on our , or to be born into a position where we have the power and education to make a real difference in the world.
How about you ask instead ask the workers at FoxConn, one of Apple's suppliers that uses sweatshops and child labor, and recently faced a huge epidemic of worker suicides, whether they believe corporations benefit society?
sorry double post
I was recently at an alumni event where a couple of people from my school who had gone top banks>top PE firms>top MBA firms>Top PE firms spoke.
One of the things that was said that stood out to me is that all of speakers mentioned business school colleagues who had started (or helped start) companies and were now extremely "successful" both in terms of wealth and of lifestyle, etc.
And southern, sorry for hijacking the thread, but it really grinds my gears when I read some of the junk on here.
I haven't mentioned that I hate corporations, or that we should eradicate them. Also, I was not the one who said anything about Apple.
Gupta is annoying
@juklano
Thank you for the props. Although very few probably know what Plato's allegory of the cave. Truly a profound work of literature and correctly describes what our society is going through
It is very hard for people my age, early 20's, to even understand anything I speak of. Our brains are so diluted, we cannot see past out own narrowly defined ambitions. If everyone truly thought outside of the prison their minds are locked in, we would be a free civilization. True, any idea that disagrees with the social brainwashed logic is considered communist or a political consipracist. You know what they called Plato, Cicero, Aristotle, Socrates, and even neitsche-political conspiracy theorist.
How long must we have social conformity for the sake of material security? How long mist the judgements of the wise be subordinated by the prejudices of the ignorant?
@eyelikecheese
Sorry bro, but you sound like a douche.
Prospective Monkeys - How to Succeed in the Interview Process (Originally Posted: 07/04/2013)
Prospective Monkeys,
I've seen a few posts over the past few week about internship/FT interviews and the importance of "technical questions". Please see below for my thoughts on how to frame your preparation for the interview process. Hopefully you find this helpful and feel free to post additional questions as comments.
I'm a 2nd year at a top MM and went through the FT hiring process rather than the internship to direct hire route. I cam from a non/semi target so most of my exposure was during first round and superday interviews with STRH, Wells, Stephens, Hairris Williams, Baird and Blair. The first thing to consider is the firm at which you are interviewing - bulge banks and "elite boutiques" tend to have a weighted focus on technical questions while other banks focus more on behavioral type "fit" questions. Technical questions typically are meant to show a couple of things:
1) You have a base knowledge and understanding of accounting and finance fundamentals above most of the people in your school - highlighting your ability to do well in a competitive environment
2) That you have a passion for banking / finance - you are EXPECTED to have read through the guides, forums, banking books etc. to prepare yourself for the types of questions that are asked - this shows your dedication to be the most prepared you can by utilizing all of your available resources
3) Check the box. Most technical questions are asked to "check-the-box" of whether or not you took the time to prepapre and are usually (but not always) used to gauge the baseline of the interview pool. However, in some instances follow-up questions can be asked to test your further knowledge and understanding or just see how you handle high pressure situations. For example, at my Bank, I was asked technical questions that started out high level in a given area / subject matter, then the questions got more involved/detailed as I got them right. This will not only show that you memorized the guides, but that you have truly studied so much that you understand underlying principles of finance - which is important from a practical standpoint as you often deal with uncertain and complex situations on the job.
Overall, technical questions should be something you look forward to (at least I did), because you can actually prepare for them and generally gauge ~80% of the exact or types of questions that you will be asked (unlike the illusive and sometimes frustrating "tell me about a time when....". You should be able to answer virtually any base understanding question they throw at you aside from something totally off-the-wall that they come up with to TRY AND SHUT YOU DOWN.
Regarding questions, you should by no means miss a single step in "walk me through a DCF" or "tell me about an LBO" - these are key questions and they expect you to KNOW that these are key questions that you should prepare accordingly for. I had friends go into first round interviews missing DCF questions and not get invited to the Superday - while (not trying to sound pompous) I crushed them and articulated all of the key points in a way that differentiated me from my competition (not just going through the motions but explaining it in simple and direct terms as if you are teaching it) which I believe helped me get invited to the Superday because the body language of the Director interviewing me indicated he was impressed. Granted, I was giving that interview my 100% since I was not initially invited to even the first round - I had to email 2 VPs stating "I would run through walls for the bank or sell ice cubes to eskimos if they asked me to."
A few key points for general conclusion:
Study everything you can for technicals because they should be "gimmies" and potentially can be a great opportunity to differentiate yourself
Be polite, humble and smile; you have to be personable for a sustainable career in banking
Be thoughtful in all of your responses and have a good question or two per interview
*** ABOVE ALL ELSE **** Show every single interviewer that you want the job more than any other mother fucker in the room, and when appropriate think outside of the box and do something courageous.
At the end of the day, you don't have to be the smartest person in the room (I know I'm far removed) to get the job, but you have to be at the cusp of intelligence, cultural fit and preparation.
You could do all that, or just attend a top target school lol.
Agreed, but I had no idea what investment banking was before I entered college and had goals far from high-finance, so attending Ivy wasn't on my top priority list considering my scholarships were for in-state only.
In hindsight, I would have leveraged up to the max to attend Harvard, Yale or Princeton, but I don't have the gift of foresight.
Many users on this site attend non-targets, so this is meant to help facilitate their recruiting process.
This is awesome! Thanks for posting this!!
Thanks Psychology, for the informative post. I attend a non-target, and (with some luck) will be using this info in the future during interviews. I wish I had a SB to throw you, but I'm out of them haha.
Great post man. Are there any specific books/guides/templates that you have found particularly useful when preparing for IB interviews? It doesn't necessarily have to be modelling guides, but interview guides in general.
Which resources to use for preparing for technical part?
Thanks for the positive feedback.
The key resources I used:
Investment Banking:Valuation, Leveraged Buyouts, and Mergers & Acquisitions by: Rosenbaum and Pearl WSO technical and behavioral guides
I am a rising junior and interning at a top regional MM IB. Would you advise me on buying Breaking Into Wall Street Financial Modeling prep?
use WSO guides much better - u dun need to go as in depth
If you are already interning at a top MM, I don't think you need to purchase BIWS. I would just reach out to other analysts and associates to see how you can get some real modeling experience.
How To Achieve Success in Manifesting (Originally Posted: 11/30/2017)
You each have your own unique manifestation process that works for YOU ONLY. There's a ton of info out there on manifesting, and it's Manifestation Miracle Reviews all great info, but ONLY if it applies to YOU specifically. I see so many clients who have tried to manifest with little or no results because they have been using a program that everyone else uses and they have difficulty understanding why it's not working for them too. This is not only frustrating for them, but can also be rather undermining for their self-esteem and their belief in their ability to create the life of their dreams. By identifying what YOUR Unique Manifestation Process is you can very quickly start manifesting abundance into your life.
Hi Pump and Dump, the silence is deafening, sorry about that.... Any of the threads below helpful?
More suggestions...
Fingers crossed that one of those helps you.
Success: How badly do you want it? (Originally Posted: 09/11/2012)
Do you want it this badly? If you do, you are very likely to be successful.
Part 1:
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpFroMCKiuM&feature=fvwrel
(Thanks pacman007 for pt. 2)
i think this is the 3rd time this has been posted on WSO. good stuff though.
Sorry about that. I'm new and just wanted to make a valuable contribution for my first post. I hope that some young monkeys can get some use out of it anyway and will make sure that I do not post repeats in the future.
no worries, i bet a lot of us haven't seen it. really is good stuff.
don't be sorry, i'm new too and this was really inspiring.
a good one
Great video and glad you reposted it for my own sake.
When I first opened the link today from my phone it came up as a 404 error and I thought you were trolling us. I was really pissed haha. Just watched it now. Thanks bud
Shit never gets old. Thanks for posting. Reminds me of how hard I used to train in HS/college and how much I miss that part of my life. Should be mandatory daily viewing for the welfare population.
full version if you care:
so lifting weights and sprints on the beach will help us break into IB?
Don't forget not breathing. So much of this crap is so over-done. Sure, success takes motivation, but so many people watch a stupid video, get the idea they can be the next Shakespeare, spend about a week writing, and then quit.
Real success is a process over at least a decade of dedicated practice and training. No video is going to motivate you to do that. Not to mention, the idea of pushing yourself until you very nearly break is probably a bad idea in the long term.
The real way to success is to do whatever you are doing day after day, with reasonable vacations / breaks to recoup, and to always feel like you are being drained / stretched. Getting really good is a pretty shitty process all-in-all. It's basically a ton of grit and being able to continually feel you are dumb every day of the week.
I prefer this one 3.03 - 3.45
the new one...
How to Be Successful Part I: Practicing Power Posing (Originally Posted: 08/20/2013)
"There are more fakers in business than in jail." -- Malcolm Forbes
I would like for us all to take some time out of our busy daily lives to reflect on what we can do to become more successful. The truth is that much of the information about ourselves that we give others and the impressions we form of others takes place on the subconscious level based on nonverbal communication. What is more surprising is that nonverbal communication changes how we feel about ourselves. In light of new research by faculty at The Columbia University and Harvard University* body language, especially power posing, when practiced properly has the power to decrease the stress hormone cortisol and increase testosterone; whilst increasing ones willingness to take risk. So next time your feeling stressed instead of turning to booze first try practicing power posing.
Young Churchill Was Destined for Success at an Early Age:
This is great! Thanks for posting this!!
Here is a decent article about it:
http://www.businessinsider.com/power-pose-2013-5?op=1
Love the idea! I would love to get a painting of me posing ;)
Nice post, I saw this a little while ago and I wonder why this kind of thing is more widely taught
Per All Nighter Blogspot:
"You know what posturing is all about. You see everyone around you do it. Rupert is an example in case, with his wide pinstripe suits, Hermes ties that scream “In your face!”, braces that he probably only wears because he saw Gordon Gecko wear them in Wall Street. The know-it-all tone and the over-chewed piping-hot-potato-in-your-mouth English accent are all part of the show. Male i-bankers can’t get away with lipstick and mascara (at least at work, anyway), but they sure can posture their way to peak of investment banking showbusiness.
10% of being a BSD (Big Swinging Dick) is knowing what you are doing. This is by no means an absolute requisite, as even if you have no clue as to what you are doing (like many BSD’s), the remaining 90% of your skill-set will kick in to overcompensate. The other 90% of being a BSD is posturing. It’s simple: if you present yourself as a BSD and keep up the show, you will be perceived to be a BSD. A simple example.
Rupert interviews you and acts like a BSD. You conclude he is a BSD. You tell your intern buddies that he’s a BSD. They tell their analysts that this Rupert guy is a major BSD (interns like to exaggerate). The analysts start telling their associates about this BSD in M&A called Rupert. The associates are always keen to get on the good side of important people (the “ass” in associate in not there by chance – it’s in fact part of the job description – kissing ass is what they do) so they go out of their way to treat Rupert (should they ever meet him) like the BSD he is rumoured to be. The VPs see everyone crawling around Rupert, and here’s where it gets interesting. Most VPs are promoted associates, and whilst you can take the ass out of the associate, you can never separate someone who’s been an associate from the ass. The rare few who question the “Rupert is a BSD” rumours and try to test this for themselves are in for a surprise. The Ruperts of the world are very well aware of the existence of these dangerous independent thinking VPs, who will usually try to come up with a smartass challenge to a point Rupert is making (usually via email, copying half the bank in an attempt to uncover the fact that Rupert is a dumbass). This will usually be done at around 6PM a day before the meeting, in an attempt to give Rupert as little time as possible to manoeuvre himself out of the situation.
This VPs, my friends, has sown the seeds for a group all-nighter, also known in the business as a clusterfuck. Rupert will have every associate, analyst and intern work through the night ion every possible combination and permutation of the pieces making up the matter at hand, to be able to see every possible scenario in the morning, before the meeting. If what the smartass VP mentioned does crop up (Scenario 1), he will staff his army of followers on finding ways of discrediting the VPs assumptions (i-bankers are very good at discrediting assumptions). If the scenario doesn’t crop up (Scenario 2), Rupert can comfortable claim that the VP does not know what he’s talking about. In either case, Rupert will reply to the VPs comment (reply to all) after the meeting and regardless of whether it’s Scenario 1 or Scenario 2 that takes place, will make the VP look like a complete muppet.
In short: Rupert is not really a BSD. Rupert postures as a BSD. Rupert becomes a BSD. "
Here's the TED talk over it.
http://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_ar…
Best Way to succeed in Banking (Originally Posted: 01/11/2007)
Follow these instructions
Lol, "it may lead you to think exgirlfriends wish for you to call them at four in the morning" so true
ha
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