How to Get into Investment Banking from Engineering

I graduated school in May 2016. I have two investment banking internships during the fall of my junior year and the summer of 2015. They were really small boutiques, nothing big. I wasn't able to land a full-time position so I chose a Software Engineering position because I needed the money. I am still pursuing banking (mostly at regional boutiques) and MM firms. I'm scared that I will never get into banking and that I should give up and pursue something else. I don't want to give up so I'm still trying. I am still sending out my resume and cold-emailing. I thought about taking the Series 63 and 79 to make myself more marketable. Would this help? Does anyone have any recommendations as to what I should do to land a position anywhere?

 

So long as you are good with people you should do banking instead of trading. If you are really good with numbers or building quant models for algo shops, you might want to do trading instead. Depends on the personality. Most engineers do not have anywhere near the social skills to do banking (at least at the higher levels; often they'll get ridden on for analyst type work while the MD's laugh about how said analyst has no real future in banking). This will be the reality for a good portion of the people on WSO (or they'll be able to jump to HF and PE where people skills don't matter anywhere near as much).

 

Based you your background, I'm sure you have the traits / intellectual bandwidth to do well in either trading or banking, at least at the lower levels.

But what does "dynamic ambience" mean

 
yoonlee9:

Hi,
I am now majoring chemical engineering and minoring in finance at one of the top 3 engineering schools.
Also, I have a few internship experiences in a top 5 consulting firm and Chevron, and Samsung.

I still have two years left.
I know I really want to go into banking industry for its dynamic ambience, personal preference to actually interact with people rather than sitting my butt in the lab for 24/7, and being in the city.

I am currently working at the corporate finance department at the consulting firm and really enjoyed researching and constructing a business model for upcoming M&As and etc.

But, I heard an engineer can be more successful in trading than IBD. (which I am not really sure..)

What are the traits that you need to become a good trader or good IB analyst?

And, do you think I am competent to become a IB analyst in future?
If not, what do I need to do in next summer?

Thank you in advance for your advice.

-Ignacio

Depends on your definition of successful but you have more of a trading profile then an IBD profile. A lot of engineers work at prop shops and utility's, in the trading divisions and seem quite "successful". But do what you like and you'll be happy either way.
 

Learn everything you can about Python and try to pick up a minor, if not a second major, in statistics. If you graduate with that, someone out there will give you a shot in their analytics and/or data science department. That field is so pressed for people that you will have an impressive resume if you can prove that you can program and you know your way with numbers.

 

It's not a bad idea, but I wouldn't do those schools. Maybe look at Queen's if you can as it allows you to participate in OCR no matter what faculty you are in. It gives you something to stand out a bit, and can be useful for certain groups.. e.g you do do mining engineering then work in a natural resources team.

 

Mcgill I think is best for finance, seen a lot of alumni from Mcgill on the street from top shops.

I would honestly apply to Columbia and Upenn as well. and if you think you have the stats: HPYS, MIT, U michigan, UC Berkley.

all have solid alumni bases. if you can get a scholarship to U mich (apply to the business college), go! its the only state school with REALLY good placements.

As for majors, my friends doing industrial which is the best if you want to do finance. I'd suggest Industrial engineering, Statistics, Mathematics, Finance, Economics, Accounting.

Pick whichever one you can get a 3.6+ GPA in. (pickup the accounting minor if those classes don't wreck your grade) otherwise learn accounting on your own if its not your major/minor

 

Don't do engineering if you don't want to go into engineering. Trust me on this. Your sanity will thank me later.

If you insist on being a masochist, then do something in the engineering department that's not REALLY engineering, such as Industrial/Systems/Operations Research/etc. This will serve your purpose without driving you mad.

Doing one of the traditional engineering fields (mechanical, electrical, chemical, materials, etc) while simultaneously trying to maintain a solid gpa, get into an entirely different field (finance) and enjoy college is a recipe for disaster.

 

If you're 100% on banking do Queen's or Ivey. Nowhere else really gets the OCR that they do.

The nice thing about Ivey is that you're able to do your first 2 years in engineering if it's something you're passionate before switching over to the HBA.

 

I am not 100% into banking but I will like to keep that possibility opened. I actually only have applied to mcgill, uoft, ubc, and waterloo but they are all engineering. Would mcgill give me a chance to get into ibanking?

 

If you already know so much, why are you still asking people on this forum?

Just FYI, the best Ivy engineering programs (by reputation) are Cornell, Princeton and Columbia.

 
Lackawanna:
Because I don't now too much about how it will be perceived for IB/Consulting, and I figured I could get a little hep here

If you go to any of the HYPS schools you can major in anything you'd like without it adversely affecting your recruiting chances. Choosing to concentrate in a hard major like engineering will always be seen as a good thing as long as you're not a complete nerd.

 

Ya that's definitely not my problem, and its not like I'm doing very quanty type things like Comp Sci and Pure Math, I'm more interested in Civil and Environment engineering

 

If you did something hard like compsci but kept up with finance stuff, you'd probably have a decent shot. Something like civil engineering is going to be less competitive because it is 1) easy and 2) unrelated to finance

 

Alright. Want to do IB/Consulting/possibly law school. Want to major in civil or environmental engineering, but open to others. At HYP easier to get into through SEAS, way higher acceptance rates(~18%). How would Civil Eng. major stack up against ORFE at Princeton? Princeton requires a lot of classes for Eng., skeptical. Yale can either do accredited BS, 20 related classes, regular BS, 15 related classes, BA, 9 related classes, designed for more freedom. Will BA be looked down upon, questioned?

 

So what's your question? Whether it's possible? Yes, it is possible to get an IB job as a civil engineering or environmental engineering major from Yale or Princeton. holla_back answered your question. You can actually get through IBD recruiting with any major from a top school.

Also, it sounds like you're a high school senior. 1.) Something like 80% of people at top schools change their major in college. 2.) Many people who apply as engineering students don't graduate as engineering majors. 3.) Get in and then let's talk.

 

Take into account the fact that if you major in something difficult like engineering, you're going to spend the majority of your time on schoolwork while the kids who did econ or political science or whatever will be spending that time networking, practicing for interviews, and being more involved with finance-type things.

You don't really get bonus points for majoring in something hard. All that matters is your GPA, so if you think you can do well with a hard major and still have time to be as involved as others, then by all means go for it.

 

Also fyi, at Harvard and Yale, it is definitely not easier to get in as an engineering major. It's not like Penn where you apply to separate schools. You apply to the college as a whole and then choose your major once you're a student there. Do some more research.

 

Does you dad have any connections at the moment? And what about that childhood friend? You have to go the extra mile or maybe thousand to be even remotely considered for IBD so start working on your networking.

If everything fails then continue for a couple of years and go for an MBA.

 

Nope, my dad got in back when anyone could get a job in s&t and everyone he knows is also retired. How would I even ask that friend to help though? He has no connections within GS (got in on merit) and I'm not sure how he can help someone that didn't go to anything close to a target school with no finance related degree.

 

Hey sundance102, I'm the WSO Monkey Bot and I am sad to say, but this thread is lonely, so thought I'd post in here to try and help out. Some potential topics that might help:

More suggestions...

If those topics were completely useless, don't blame me, blame my programmers...

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 
DavidS:
Might be worth thinking about going to a target business school, that would really help catalyze a career change.

Yeah my plan was to apply to Columbia and NYU for their MBA programs (focusing in finance) for next fall if I dont get any IB offers.

Right now im studying for my GMATs just to prepare for that scenario, the reason why i'm going to a non-target for those non degrees, is that my company is willing to pay for it and its local enough where I can attend classes at night

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this
 
dontsearchme:
Hey idragmazda,

I am in the same boat, with basically less experience. Could I ask how you talked about moving into finance in your cover letter?

Basically in the first paragraph I stated that (this is not verbatim by the way) I had heard about hte position from so and so, then i said it was of interest to me because it gave me the opportunity to start a new career in a field which I was definately intresteed in. Then i stated what I could potentially gain from this.

next paragraph I talked about what I am doing at the moment (basically drawing connections from my daily tasks and on going work to how it could be useful in IB...aka talking about time management skills, how i obtained them, how i am good at them, etc etc)

last paragraph kinda just wrapped up the whole thing as usual...i kept it to about 280 words

Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis - when I was dead broke man I couldn't picture this
 

Most HR people to a certain extent don't care that much for your major. The actual MDs etc. know engineering is tough and are impressed you're in it. I don't have any hard numbers for you but from the people I know, it's 3.0+.

 

I had 3.5 & 3.7 at different points and seemed to do fine.

You do get a little more leeway than the other majors. However I would recommend above 3.5 to be safe. Any lower and it starts to get a little tough.

 

I don't know about the EU, but I successfully recruited for IB in the US as an industrial engineering major. It's not impossible, but certainly more difficult. Biggest thing will be technical knowledge gap, so master that and ace behaviorals.

 

I majored in Electrical Engineering and went into IB. was a while ago though, not recent. Did a MSc Finance afterwards.

All in EU, but worked in many different countries.

Highlight analytical skills, an interest for the group you are applying for and your motivation, and interview well/be charismatic (this is something very tech focused staff might struggle with, but everyone can learn/improve/get coached).

ps: don't worry about applying abroad without a visa. Too small of a chance and could be a waste of time. If you get placed in Europe you can transfer on the L visa afterwards.

 

Well, in Greece things are not pretty good, thats why i want to go abroad. Im currently at second year of mechanical engineering so i have time to network and improve my engilsh/french. What i would like to know is, if i really have to start learning german. Idk what is gonna happen to UK cause of Brexit, but probably i would need a visa (just like USA). Even now it is hard to move and work there permanently, so UK is out of the question (or not?).

 

Like I said, it would be very difficult to estimate the outcome of political decisions for years to come. London is and always will be a very important place for finance related jobs. Why don't you do an internship in a potential job market? That would help you get acquainted with the country and local customs. It would also help land an offer afterwards.

 

If I were you I'd stick it out for a minimum of one year, particularly if you're at google or apple. If you're there for a year or two that experience will actually mean something for you going forward and could really be an asset for you if you want to move into VC or tech PE in the future (post IB). If you stay only a few months then that will eventually just get written off your resume and end up having been a waste of time.

 

I agree with int'l pymp. Stick with it for a few years and you'll have more options, and a better story to tell. Banks won't want you as an A1 - they'll question your commitment, they will wonder why you're switching careers, etc. Better to get some actual useful experience that you can pitch to a tech group, VC or b-school, and keep on your CV for some time.

And it's not like the guys who get promoted in finance are schmucks, either, so I don't think you should be doing this just because you're having performance / confidence issues.

 

Thanks guys. Yeah, it's not like what I am doing is miserable, but I just look at my bosses and think that it would be really mundane to have that kind of job in 20 years. As a result, I will probably try and stick it out as you advised, which will leave with me over a year of experience as I try to get my resume out next fall, and then throughout the rest of my life this experience won't just be a write off.

I am ultimately looking to move into VC or something that covers the technology sector in the long run, so I agree with the idea that this experience could be a major selling point if I make the most of it.

Second question: given that I have a fair amount of time on my hands (I work 50 hours per week tops) would doing a CFA be worthwhile to pursue?

Thanks again for the advice, I really appreciate it.

 

I don't have much experience with the CFA, but I've always viewed it as being more useful if you want to go into investment management (AM/HF) than if you're looking at VC. Given that you have so much free time, if VC is really what you want, I'd just spend a lot of time hanging out with entrepreneurs and VC guys. It will be more fun, and more genuinely useful; having a good network will help you get ahead, it will ensure you know about interesting opportunities, it will make transitioning easier, and if you do move from where you are now to a start-up, you'll be that much better a candidate for VC.

 

Why not look into getting into quant trading?

Seems like a waste of your skillset to go into M&A.

Top places like Jump Trading/Two Sigma/Hudson River will pay you more money potentially quite a bit faster, with better hours.

 

I'd start networking with alumni in BB IBD or boutiques. At a non-target, esp. for FT recruiting, you need to be recommended by people. FT recruiting is difficult enough already as so many banks fill 90% of their incoming class with SAs, and coming from a non-target without OCR makes it even more difficult.

Start scheduling calls with alumni and try to tell them your story.

 

recruiting by the big 5 banks is done pretty much exclusive from business undergrads so it can be extremely hard to break in if that's not your case. The only way you'll convince people you are serious about finance and know your stuff is to network your way into finance internships. Not sure how soon you are graduating, but timing might be an issue as it will be hard to get an offer without a summer in IBD and you'll need an internship or two before that to convince any bank to take you in for the summer.

 

Thanks. I'll still give it a shot. Is it easier to break in as an associate from a top 1-year MBA program down the road if I pursue a software developer role for a couple of years?

 

SEO is a joke. Anyone who goes through SEO is basically cheating the system. I am at a PE fund, and I will NEVER hire anyone (not that I have much say) who went through the program, just out of principal.

As far as your question, you are lucky that you are in the epicenter of everything. To answer your question, if you want to go into IB then most likely you need to either go to Stern or get an IB internship your soph/Juni year.

Thanks for the advice.

I don't believe it's a bad program, just because companies will maintain affirmative action policies anyway. It's better for everyone involved if SEO filters out some applicants, making sure it's at least the best minorities that get positions.

But AA itself kind of bothers me, and I don't think my parents would want me to do it anyway. ahaha, libertarian colombian immigrants.

Any other feedback would be much appreciated. Has anyone switched from entrepreneurship to IB? I realize they're a bit different.

edit:: ideating, primarily parental/personal policy, see above. They're more important to me than getting into banking, although we'll see if I try to change minds before junior year.

 
AROTC Monkey:
Thanks for the advice.

I don't believe it's a bad program, just because companies will maintain affirmative action policies anyway. It's better for everyone involved if SEO filters out some applicants, making sure it's at least the best minorities that get positions.

But AA itself kind of bothers me, and I don't think my parents would want me to do it anyway. ahaha, libertarian colombian immigrants.

Any other feedback would be much appreciated. Has anyone switched from entrepreneurship to IB? I realize they're a bit different.

edit:: ideating, primarily parental/personal policy, see above. They're more important to me than getting into banking, although we'll see if I try to change minds before junior year.

I don't really understand what you're saying. Look, getting a good job in finance is incredibly competitive. Many well-qualified people don't get jobs and many underqualified people do get jobs. It's unfair, inefficient and very competitive. You have to use every advantage you may have, whether it be SEO, family connections or sexual favors with some MD in HLHZ.

Dude, long as you keep your grades up, your golden. You got VC money as a freshman in college?! I have CS grad friends who've worked almost two years in the community and haven't gotten anything. It sounds like you have a very specific career track. If I were you, I would continue to grow my business, do ROTC, keep up the grades, & jr. - sr. summer do an internship with the best bank you can. After that, if you want to serve go for it, you'll be set up as good as you can be to get back on the street. Even if you cant, I would find it hard for you not to get into a top B-School.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

First off, I would like to say that I'm sick of people studying engineering or computer science and saying they are interested in IB. If you want a job in finance, why not major in finance given the opportunity (I know Ivy leagues mostly don't have finance so economics would be the next best choice).

I do think you made a mistake transferring to learn computer science if you are interested in investment banking. You basically just admitted that you want to be able to keep an easy 4.0 while starting your own business- so basically it's the opposite candidate of what IB's look for (hard working, motivated, not-entrepreneurial). My two cents.

Also you are stupid for not utilizing SEO. I hate affirmative action cause I'm white, but you gotta use all means to get into finance. Don't forget you're in the jungle. Grab every branch you can reach.

 

ideating, thanks. The perspective helps.

First off, opposite of hardworking/motivated? I've been getting three hours of sleep everyday for two years and I'm barely out of high school. Please try running a startup period, let alone one ambitious enough to receive funding in the current climate before questioning my work ethic.

I'm not just "starting it" or planning to, you don't receive capital for that anymore. I've been working 120 hour workweeks, more including allnighters.

Computer Sciences comes in because it's the only option I have to stay in school while working. If I stayed in finance, I would likely have to extend a leave of absence, which NYU doesn't always allow past one year.

I'm sick of people assuming they took the hardest route possible. I realize you've paid your dues, but no offense, you don't need to be condescending. You don't even have the right to be.

 

If you can keep up the good work, you will have a good chance of getting in given you do have a high 3.7-4.0 gpa. Just need a couple internships. However, a 4.0 in CS is ridiculously difficult to do( I believe highest distinction in my school just need 3.71 in EE, and that's top 5 %). However, if you can get VC funding, you can probably do that too.

Use SEO if you can do it. There is no harm of using every advantage you can have

To banker88:

Not everyone wants to be in IB from 1st year. Sometimes it's too late to switch out/ sometimes the school doesn't have a finance program. Also, I personally think it's better to have something that quantitative, since it's much easier to go into any other field afterwards. But then again, it's just me.

Regarding the GPA remark, a 4.0 in CS is nearly impossible. Either you are a genius or you have never taken a CS class before. There's a reason why engineers' average gpas are so low.

 

One second thought, if you've got VC money, ride that baby out. Exit & the bankers will be working for you.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

Don't mean to spam my own thread. Out in a moment. Thanks for the replies, I realize CS is hard.

Banker88 was just trying to be honest, my response was off. I look like a pussy. but i still maintain my work ethic.

westfald, check vc forum.

 

Yea my bad for the harsh language, but I stick by my opinion. Also I don't claim that others have us have taken the hardest route, just a more logical one in my opinion. I wanna do banking so I majored in finance and econ in a target undergrad business school, and took on finance internships. Your plan just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

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