How to get Respect...
Bankers are among the smartest people in the world, though so easily manipulated. Why is it that as soon as graduates enter banking, they suddenly feel so inadequate that they change everything about themselves. We are meant to be the movers and the shakers of the developed world, yet a vast majority of us are so easily manipulated that we will do anything if someone calls it prestigious.
I used to judge people on what they did; I respected bankers just for being bankers, I respected barristers for being barristers, and so on. I attatched value and respect to prestige. Prestige is nothing more than the value system and dogma of other people. After sitting on this website, hearing countless analysts bitch and moan about how their job, after sitting in my IBD office and seeing 75% of the people miserable and lifeless, I have come to realise why I respect people.
I don't respect what people do, so much as how they do it. I respect the guy who puts his heart and soul into something, who finds a genuine passion for what it is that he does. I have no respect for someone who does something they don't want to, bitches and moans, all because they have a false attatchment to prestige, which shrinks their testicles so much that they daren't go and do what they'd really like to.
I respect the guy I met the other week working at Prada, who knew everything about the human form, dressing to shapes, colours vs skin tones. He was eccentric, he loved what he did, and he was happy to help me get a few outfits. My friend owns a little restaurant, and knows everything about the food he serves; the roots of each dish, and the chemistry of taste, he's been into food since 15. It's an almost infectious passion he has. I worked with him one summer a few years ago, and he was busting 15 hour days, every day of the year, with a smile on his face and a spring in his step. These are the people I respect.
I love my job, I love working in IBD, and as someone who values money, I love getting paid. For all the long hours and sometimes mundane analyst bitch work we have to do, we are working on things that genuinely shape the economic landscape. We get to work on massive issues, with top people, exposed to the 'behind the scenes' side of business in a way that almost everyone will never get to do.
If you want respect, it isn't about getting on some elitist bandwagon citing quotes you read in 'damn it feels good to be a banker', hiding behind pompism and well worn banker quotes. It isn't about watching 'wall street' and copying it to a T. It isn't about basing your personality on what you ' think' a banker should be. It's about being who you are, and putting yourself into it. If you can't do that, they you fail as a human being to achieve any sort of excellence. You just coast, living someone else's life in quiet misery.
Sorry to ramble, please feel free to add to this discussion, whether you agee or disagree.
I like what you are saying
I like what you are saying here. I always admire people who love what they do, who work hard and have the ability to make things happen.
You are right you should love
You are right you should love what you do for what it is and not for the value others attach to it.
BUT you forget that a LOT of those analysts who complain about the bitch work and are worn out initially went into banking for the "prestige" and the money. So technically they are doing what they love which is slaving away for prestige. Also I bet they change themselves because they probably wanted to in the first place.
I guess my question is why would one be better than the other?
froufrou wrote: You are right
You are right you should love what you do for what it is and not for the value others attach to it.
BUT you forget that a LOT of those analysts who complain about the bitch work and are worn out initially went into banking for the "prestige" and the money. So technically they are doing what they love which is slaving away for prestige. Also I bet they change themselves because they probably wanted to in the first place.
I guess my question is why would one be better than the other?
Simple; Doing something because you value it, is more virtuous than doing something because other people value it. The former demonstrates a respectable quality, the latter demonstrates a lack of character.
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What I am saying that those
What I am saying that those people obviously value being respected/valued by their peers and banking for them is the way to do it. So there is no lack of character , you just find WHAT they value unorthodox
froufrou wrote: What I am
What I am saying that those people obviously value being respected/valued by their peers and banking for them is the way to do it. So there is no lack of character , you just find WHAT they value unorthodox
I understand your point, but what I am saying is that they aren't valuing anything instrinsic to the job, they aren't valuing what they are doing as good and meaningful work. They are valuing the opinions of other people, and consequently don't have any of their own seperate from these. Just ask yourself who is the more respectable - those who create their own value system, or those who follow someone elses?
I also agree doing something
I also agree doing something you love is important. Still the jobs you mentioned such as cooking and fashion don't change much over time. I'm not saying they didnt work hard to get where they are but you could also look at it as analysts see their role now as a stepping stone to do things they think they will enjoy much more down the road. I don't think anyone necessarily loves being an analyst (bottom of the totem pole) but can definitely be excited about the prospects of a different role down the road..
I think most of it has to do
I think most of it has to do with personality. Those people I described would probably be grumpy and bitching during any activity whether they love it or not, and honestly I believe most just love their salary and bonus more than what their real interest may be. (in a nutshell they already got what they asked for)
I respect the person who supports his decisions while having a positive attitude the most, no matter what their motives are.
Kinda off topic: I think that if you have a nice personality and are friendly in the office it goes a long way because then you work in a nice atmosphere which makes the bitching less. I remember loving a previous job because i had a great time with my colleagues even though the work itself was shitty.
So yeah at the end of the day setting your own values is the best but some people just can't do that hence they follow! :P
Haha did no one else find
Haha did no one else find parts of the op's prose hilarious? "I respect the guy I met the other week working at Prada, who knew everything about the human form, dressing to shapes, colours vs skin tones. He was eccentric, he loved what he did, and he was happy to help me get a few outfits." Haha.
MoneyKingdom wrote: Haha did
Haha did no one else find parts of the op's prose hilarious? "I respect the guy I met the other week working at Prada, who knew everything about the human form, dressing to shapes, colours vs skin tones. He was eccentric, he loved what he did, and he was happy to help me get a few outfits." Haha.
Never underestimate zee powerr of zee Prada sales assistant!
Also brownie points to the OP for shopping @ Prada
My 2 cents, People respect
My 2 cents,
People respect Obama because he is the president. Only he knows if he wants to be the president or just want to be called the president.
My goal was to work at Wall Street, all the decisions I made in school are simply procedures that allow me to reach that goal. It doesn't matter if I like them or hate them. I don't enjoy going to class, working my ass off tryna pull some As. I wanna play video game, travel around the world with my girlfriend. In the end, its those hard work and doing things that I don't enjoy got me into Wall Street instead of some hippie fraternities.
Now my goal is to beome a millionair and to get respected, it doesn't matter if I like IBD or not as long as it helps me reaching that goal. I might not enjoy the process, but in the end, it all pays off.
I believe in trade-off.
Signs of Recession:
Banker: “Where’s me Bonus?”
Yuppie: “Whadya mean I have to actually work?”
Fox Rock Mum: “Lidl’s the place to be seen in now!”
Cowen: “It’s not my fault that me and my party are complete f**k-ups - it’s the recession silly!”
Good post. I personally have
Good post.
I personally have the deepest respect for anyone who puts his heart and guts out to achieve something.
After Business School, I know friends who started companies, other that became restaurant owners, mechanics or even kayak instructors in the middle of nowhere and I didn't feel superior working in IBD in NYC.
If you are doing IBD to prove something instead of just following your path, sooner or later there is going to be a "backdraft" and you will go through a lot of bitching.
Respect is earned, never given and it comes with respecting yourself.
I disagree with
I disagree with "poormonkeynomoney"'s view on life. If you never enjoy the road to your goals then you run the risk of sitting in your chair at an age of 80 thinking that "Indeed, I really managed to meet a lot of my goals, i made my millions, but damn i hated 90% of my life". In the long run I have no doubt that how much you enjoy your work is directly correlated with your success at it.
I am not going to start on the discussion about pursuing materialistic goals as a way to reach happiness. Money makes things easier and more convenient, but in itself does not make you happier. Facing challenges and overcoming them on the other hand, is something that for most people adds to the happiness "meter".
I believe in the saying "The Journey Is the Reward". This has multiple meanings, but to me it represents the fact that if you work incredibly hard to reach a goal, then in the end the path that lead you there will turn out to be more important than the actual outcome. To use poormonkey's example of getting an A in a very difficult course: You work incredibly hard all semester, and know with yourself that you are giving 110%. Now regardless of whether or u get an A or a B at the final exam (the outcome can be affected by many factors), you will bring with you for the rest of your life a confidence and a strength from having worked so hard to reach your goal. It has strengthened your personality, your mind. Exercising in the gym to make your muscles grow stronger is the physical analogue to this concept. When you meet a difficult situation later in life you know you have "been in hell before", and you know you can deal with it. That confidence, and that experience, is invaluable. No one can take that away from you. The concept also demonstrates that always "taking the easy way out" is dangerous if you are in pursuit of happiness.
I believe happiness lies in facing various small and large challenges, working hard to overcome them, and then growing on the hard work you laid down to get there. Reaching the goal itself is usually an anticlimax, a side effect, and will come with a hard working, persistent, and "never give up"-mentality.
Magnus
froufrou wrote: What I am
What I am saying that those people obviously value being respected/valued by their peers and banking for them is the way to do it. So there is no lack of character , you just find WHAT they value unorthodox
this is exactly what I was thinking, if someone desires working for prestige alone while hating the actual work who are we to judge what they have chosen... Just because the OP or someone else believes it doesn't make sense to only care about some ideal of prestige when choosing a career doesn't make their view better -- ultimately the goal of a career is the maximize a person's utility
Also, what do you guys think is the most prestigious office building in the US?
This thread reminds me of
This thread reminds me of this quote: "Man is born free, yet everywhere he is in chains."
That's Rousseau, whom I really enjoy. (No broke back). He was speaking about how most people spend more time worrying about what other people think of them and conforming to that instead pursuing what they want. (And how funny it was since everybody is conforming to what they think everyone thinking, so there isn't even a baseline to conform to, since everyone is adjusting themselves according to everyone else, who is in turn adjusting themselves accordingly).
250 years ago Rousseau predicted that one of the biggest threats to democracy was the future emergence of people who pursued things in life not because they thought they were worthy of pursuing, but instead to gain the esteem of others - he was right. This is framed well in the idea of slavery, where slavery is being subject to the will of another. So if you chase something because of how it will make others perceive you, then you have effectively been enslaved because you are submitting yourself to the will of another.
That's why the pursuit prestige is a fail (since it is conferred by other people) [I'm still pursuing it anyways haha] as compared to the person who does what they truly love , despite what it makes others think of them. Obviously there are limits to this idea e.g. this doesn't justify extreme antisocial behaviour.
To the OP: The issue you raise is widespread in Western society, but especially North America I find. Once you start looking at it all, the majority if things we do are not because we love them, but because we want to impress other people, even down to the clothes we wear, way we speak, etc. Perhaps this isn't totally wrong and there is an argument to be made about the benefits of conformity, but I don't think it's a problem only bankers have. Facebook is really good for watching all of this unfold, because everything you do is going to broadcasted to other people, so you really have to take into consideration what you do/say.
Also, your "how to get respect" idea still suffers from the same problem you are criticizing, in a sideways manner. Phrased differently it's "how to get others to think better of you", which is the line of thinking which has brought about the behaviour you are criticizing. There are no easy answers to any of this crap, which is why from a personal standpoint, I still continue to play the game even though I see how stupid it all is.
Finally, not complaining, but it seems like we have been having many of these reflective threads lately. What is in the air?
Underground wrote: To the OP:
Very eye opening.
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"I do not think there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcom
- edit
One of the good posts I have
Underground wrote: This
I will fight the temptation
The extent of the power of
Underground wrote: I will
rodneymullen wrote: I love my
your thread reminds me of a
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this thread is clearly a
Also, true wanna-be bankers
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Affirmative_Action_Walrus
Koho
magnusga wrote: If you never
Signs of Recession:
Banker: “Where’s me Bonus?”
Yuppie: “Whadya mean I have to actually work?”
Fox Rock Mum: “Lidl’s the place to be seen in now!”
Cowen: “It’s not my fault that me and my party are complete f**k-ups - it’s the recession silly!”
things you said are righteous
Holy shit. ^ You wanted to be
justanotherday wrote: things
This is one of the most
suburbanfarmboy wrote: This
Affirmative_Action_Walrus
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"... then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it."
haha bang on
Most of the time, There is a
Some people just like to
I think more people would do
I didnt know what banking was
somedude wrote: I think more
somedude wrote: I think more