How to help someone on a downward spiral
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This is something I haven't seen discussed very much on the site. I have a very bright/hardworking friend who works in Business Intelligence and I've seen him start to go on a downward spiral over the last month or so. He's absolutely sick of his job to the point where he's become depressed and rather than face it front on and transition into a better situation, he's drinking more (especially on work nights), doing drugs, calling in sick, lying to his employer and on the path to get himself fired. Doesn't help that he's started hanging out with an old group of friends that supports this behavior. So sad to see because I know he has a ton of potential.
Have you guys seen this happen to someone close to you (or you yourself)? How did the situation play out?
I feel like if I push him too hard to get help he'll just push me away, but at the same time I want to help in whatever way I can. I've told him about the opportunities that could open up for him, I've told him about getting help, and he'll listen to me and agree with me, but then I'll talk to him a few days later and nothing has improved. What should I do monkeys? One mutual friend mentioned at this point it would be better to let him hit rock bottom and bounce back from that...not sure how I feel about that.
Depends on how close you are, ultimately there isn't much you can do. In your shoes the best thing you can do is lay it all out in front of him, where he is headed, how you can help and then give him space. He either will come around or he won't, most people are just built differently. I don't know why they do that to themselves, but they do.
You can't help people who don't want to help themselves. Be a good friend, not a parent. This might be an unpopular thing to say but I've dealt with quite a few friends with seemingly more serious issues than you're describing. Calling out people like this tends to have the effect of just making them feel worse. Remember, people like this frequently don't think how they're "supposed" to... because they're depressed and whatnot. That's what depression/etc. is. So be a good friend.
Yes - I went through the same thing during my unemployment streak - but when I realised it was my fault and no one really bats for you/your on your own in this world and stopped feeling sorry for myself/entitled - things started to fall into place.
Tell him to change his attitude (and be nice!). BI is a good lateral opportunity for business ops or something more interesting/challenging usually. The only people who can be helped are the ones who help themselves.
Everyone has 'potential' but the ones who succeed are those who don't quit.
front paging your own topic, that's a power move.
But seriously the best thing you can do is be there for him. If he doesn't want to change it isn't your responsibility to do it for him. The best way anyone can learn is through their own mistakes. Obviously be there for him and support him, but don't put too much pressure on yourself and never feel responsible for him. He needs to figure things out on his own, just be there for him and be a good friend.
I have had a number of interesting friends over the years. A few of them have threatened to or tried to kill themselves.
If you have the time/energy, you need to spend more time with him and try to gently steer him away from the drinking and drugs. (Actually I think weed is OK and I think drinking after work on thurs/fri is not a big deal. Actually in trading, drinking 4-5 on a Monday night isn't a big deal.)
The goal is not to deliberately push out the bad stuff but to offer as much of an alternative is possible.
You can also voice your concern but don't give him a bitch slapping. If you can stay analytical about it and try to cite stuff that gives him a better sense of reality without showing reality as you necessarily see it, you have a better chance of getting him to listen. IE don't say "You're always snorting cocaine". Say "I noticed you've been doing cocaine on 12 of the past 14 nights. I've heard that people who do that are at risk of addiction. Is that something you've ever worried about?"
People don't want to be told there's something wrong with them, but when you have to, it's easier for them to stomach if you offer an observation, a very distant and gentle analysis, and a solution. It's not personal, it's not a judgement about them, it's just something you perceive. And you maximize the likelihood they'll do something if you maximize the time that mirror you're holding up is in their face. (Note that this is something you maximize over the long run, not short run). This strategy doesn't always work. But I think it doubles your chances of a long term recovery over having an intervention.
If you're a patient person with a lot of time on your hands, you get a better shot by a more subtle approach than some one-time intervention. But this isn't something you can do from another country.
As someone that went through exactly what your friend is going through with heavy drug/alcohol use and just generally not caring about the job I had or what kind of future I wanted (started summer going into final semester of college) I have to echo what people above are saying. I think you should be a good friend and continue to hang out with him as your normally would but let him hit rock bottom and come to the realization of "oh shit, what the hell am I doing with my life". Coming to the self realization will be more powerful for him than having his friends tell him what he is doing wrong, or at least it was for me. To be honest, he might not think he is doing anything wrong or think he is just having a goodbit of deserved fun and wont realize what he is actually doing until much later after he has come through it and moved on.
I pretty much agree with people on this, but I just want to point out that rock bottom can vary significantly. If you can hold that mirror up and gently try to inspire reason rather than just sit back and watch, rock bottom gets a little bit more shallow.
You can't do a whole lot, but in a person with a few ounces of reason, you can usually do something.
Honestly? Punch him in the face. Seriously. He needs something major to shock him out of this. When I was younger I went through a phase of a month or two where I was just so sick of school that I just quit trying all together. My grades suffered along with a lot of other things. One day I got in a fight at school and got a hook to the face. That snapped me right out of that funk I was in.
Heister, I'm not sure that's something most people would do.
There's nothing wrong with having zany opinions, and my zaniest ones (IE having IL block grain shipments, suing employers for failure to pay) blow this one out of the water, but punching said friend in the face is a good way to lose said friend and then be powerless to help.
Your strategy is basically an intervention that involves assault and battery. I don't think interventions work very well, and I believe Andy's famous quote is "I'm a lover, not a fighter... But don't get any ideas".
For what it's worth in your friend's situation - I went through a phase where I was stressed/depressed due to work situation earlier in my career, although I didn't get anywhere near a death spiral. What I found made all the difference was resolving to GTFO ie long before I got an offer that got me out, I was energised by the resolve to GTFO and working in that direction, rather than just sitting in my misery.
If you think this could work for your friend, perhaps offer him some external discipline eg you two catch up for coffee every 2 weeks to discuss the situation and, more particularly, what he's doing to GTFO.
thanks for the advice everyone!
One other complicating factor in this is that I'm not sure Andy (OP) is in the US or Argentina.
There's a lot more that you can do if you live in the same city.
Argentina, and yes that is my quote "I'm a lover, not a fighter... But don't get any ideas"... stolen from most interesting man in the world
LOVE your team's name, The Shankees. Perfect for an American baseball team visiting Argentina.
Wish I had something positive to tell you, but in almost every single case I've seen that resembles your situation (watching a friend fall apart, fall prey to bad influences, etc), the results were not positive. They just went down that path even further. Brilliant kids, in the best cases they've gone nowhere in life, and in the worst of cases they are consistently getting arrested and have mug shots across various states.
I only know of one case that seems like it might be promising. The solution? A few factors. Get them away from the substances, and then give them a more exciting project that they can channel their talents into.
Otherwise, you should lower your expectations.
The one exception: if you think suicide is a real risk, INTERVENE. Robin Williams to Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting.
thanks for the message, and glad you like the name :-)
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