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How Would People From Non-Targets Fare at a Target School?
 

Al Bundy's picture
ER
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 8:50pm
skul.JPG

Hi,

So first of all, let me be very clear that I do not intend this to be a put down/prestige whore thread, so please keep it civil. However, I am currently a student at a non-target and while I'm not even an overachiever there (GPA is only around 3.7), I often wonder if I had gone to a prestigious school if I could even compete there or if I would be stuck with a 3.0-3.3 GPA and still be in a pretty bad spot in terms of breaking into banking. I feel like I have just as much intellectual curiosity and work ethic to compete with the kids at some ivies, but all of my friends that go to a prestigious school are both incredibly talented and work very hard.

From what I've seen at my state school (btw, I mean complete non-target, not places like Ross/Haas/etc.), I feel like there are still a good chunk of kids that are book smart/able to get good grades, but there are very few intellectuals, which is the real difference between the quality of target and non-target kids. For example, at a state school, the top kids would get all or mostly As/A-s, pick up some leadership position or 2 at a large school club, then just party. At an ivy, on the other hand, my friends are not only getting killer grades and normal leadership positions, but also do a lot of outside reading/learning and are founding clubs/groups or winning huge awards on top of all that.

That's why I was wondering if anyone somehow knows this firsthand (i.e. someone who went to a large state school then to Wharton/Stern or something like that). I got wait-listed at Cornell/Vanderbilt-type places in high school and whenever I don't do well on a test, I wonder if I would get absolutely crushed over there, or if me not being the best at a non-target doesn't imply that I'd be screwed at a top school.

Sorry for the long post, but again, lets keep it civil.

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
Tags:
aisixerdude03's picture

Sohn Investment Contest

IB
(Monkey, 35
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 9:15pm

Sohn Investment Contest Winner is not from the Ivy League, but from Indiana University. He is among a group of Investment Banking Workshop elite students, all of 28 whom have landed offers on Wall Street. This kid got the "true college experience" and has an internship at JP Morgan Investment Banking. Being the best at a non-target is a better deal than being mediocre at an ivy, and you might actually enjoy your college career.

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000024302

Al Bundy's picture

Well the issue is I'm not the

ER
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 9:29pm

Well the issue is I'm not the absolute best even at my non-target. I don't know how to explain it, but I feel like somehow, I have never been an academic "star" relative to a lot of people but I'm still "smart". I hope I'm not sounding arrogant, but I feel like I have a lot of intellectual curiosity, come up with new ideas, and can converse with my superiors intelligently, but somehow, I've always lagged far behind academically compared to my friends in terms of raw accomplishments (i.e. GPA, academic awards, etc.). That's why I wonder, since I'm only above average at my school but still knowledgeable, if I can compete against people who are all of the above (very accomplished, very talented, motivated enough to do more reading outside of school, etc.).

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.

YourWorstEnemy's picture

I think you're overanalyzing

HF
(Orangutan, 293
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 9:38pm

I think you're overanalyzing the situation. And I think you're over estimating the intellectual capabilities of students from "target" schools. There are intellectuals at every school and there are also partiers. I believe you're confusing
real intellectuals with "psuedo intellectuals" these are the types you see perched under a tree or at starbucks debating their psuedo intellectual interests. Chances are if you're doing well at a state school you would do well at a target. State schools usually have harsher grading policies compared to privates. You just have to learn to associate
with persons that share the values as yourself, you may find them at your local starbucks or perched under a tree, maybe at the gay right rally. Who knows, obviously you have no real clue about human nature or how we operate as a species. Here's a tip get off the internet and read some got damn books

TropicalFruit's picture

The undergrad admissions

(Baboon, 122
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 9:42pm

The undergrad admissions process isn't about intelligence. Ok sure you need straight A's and a good SAT score, but that alone doesn't get you into HYP. What differentiates the state schoolers from the HYP admits are 1. you have some extraordinary extracurricular that differentiates you from every other 4.0/2250 student 2. legacy 3. under-represented minority 4. luck. High school is easy as shit, most 16 year olds just don't care enough to put in the effort. The only difference between a motivated top student at a state school and an ivy league kid is that the ivy league kid was more ambitious from an earlier age. That being said, grades don't equal intelligence (although obviously they correlate).

trailmix8's picture

I think state kids would get

AM
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 10:02pm

I think state kids would get better grades at Ivy's cause they wouldn't have the same opportunities to party that they do at state. Therefore, would be more concentrated on studies.

ProspectiveMonkey's picture

As one of the above posters

(Orangutan, 328
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 10:51pm

As one of the above posters said a lot of state schools have harsher grading scales than Ivy league schools. Some major schools like UW, UM are known for their grade deflation, in that they make it so only 10% of students can get A's in b-school core courses.

Whereas Harvard pretty much allows the whole class to get B's to A-'s with a still pretty solid number (like 20%) getting solid A's.

So GPA is not a way of looking at it. Your GPA may be better if you went to an Ivy League school. But I do think there is a lot more opportunities for critical thinking at Ivy League schools who have presentations done by Nobel Laureates, etc...

Babyj18777's picture

I'm willing to bet your

O
(Orangutan, 283
 
Points)
 on 5/27/11 at 11:57pm

I'm willing to bet your grades would be equal or better at an ivy league institution. First year economics is first year economics wherever you go for the most part; it's not like the ivies have a set of secret textbooks or access to a classified database where the real educational material is.

Like the above poster said, many state schools are known for grade deflation while the inverse is true for the more prestigious universities.

Matthias's picture

Eh idk I understand grades

CO
(Orangutan, 298
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 12:15am

Eh idk I understand grades are curved at most non-targets a bit harsher say to a B-/B but look at it this way. To get an A in a course you need to be in the top 10-25% of students. Now this is easier to do when the majority of students aren't of a similar intelligence level/work ethic. Now I would be willing to say that an ivy would have its entire population of students in that 10-25% range from the non-target. So, I would think it would be more difficult, especially in the classes that curve, because the people you are competing with are that much smarter and hard working.

djr's picture

http://www.usnews.com/educati

 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 12:18am

http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2011/01/0...

Did a quick calculation by filtering out any school that's not Top 25 (I'm assuming those are the schools that aren't targets for the BBs, MBBs etc) and 191/500 went to 'Targets.' So 61.8% are from non. Is this a measure of intelligence? I dunno but it is a sign that there are quite a few smart people in non-targets who just didn't get the same launching pad as others.

Will Hunting's picture

I can put in some direct

IB
(King Kong, 1,231
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 1:07am

I can put in some direct examples into this:

A girl I know from my high school was decently smart in H.S (90 gpa) and went to a community college bc she did not have money to go away. She got a 3.94 first semester and a 4.0 second semester at her C.C while taking 18 credits per semester.

Then she transferred to an ivy after 1 year. Now, let it be known that she does not party, drink, or smoke. She actually hates those people. However, she is by no means a geek or intellectual...just a regular down to earth girl. Her GPA first semester at the IVY was 2.97 and 3.4 second semester.

Come up with your own opinion/answer but she did everything exactly the same at both schools but the work was significantly more challenging at the IVY and the tests were MUCH harder.

Also, alot of my friends say that their tests at less prestigous schools are not cumulative. I have not had a non-cumulative test at my particular target. You have to study much more for the latter and ggrades tend to be lower

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.

mxc's picture

Target is harder than

O
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 2:40am

Target is harder than non-target, at least that's my personal experience.

rickyross's picture

This completely varies by

IB
(Gorilla, 542
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 4:41am

This completely varies by student. Also the comment about CC above is not an apples to apples comparison. Community college is more analogous to high school course work in terms of rigor than it is a decent state school.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

Peter_27's picture

TropicalFruit wrote: The

ER
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 11:18am
TropicalFruit:

The undergrad admissions process isn't about intelligence. Ok sure you need straight A's and a good SAT score, but that alone doesn't get you into HYP. What differentiates the state schoolers from the HYP admits are 1. you have some extraordinary extracurricular that differentiates you from every other 4.0/2250 student 2. legacy 3. under-represented minority 4. luck. High school is easy as shit, most 16 year olds just don't care enough to put in the effort. The only difference between a motivated top student at a state school and an ivy league kid is that the ivy league kid was more ambitious from an earlier age. That being said, grades don't equal intelligence (although obviously they correlate).

+1

B-School Bound's picture

You would likely get nuked

O
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 11:38am

You would likely get nuked down to a C+ B- your first term and then recover into a B+ A- range after a year. The nature of the top schools is that they are writing heavy. It has been my experience that most Ivy students are not more intelligent than the competition, but they do have better writing skills and tend to be more disciplined.

If you could get the writing aspect squared away, you would likely be able to assume the discipline pretty quickly. The hard work ethos of a top school tends to be contagious, as the focal point of social life is oddly the library.

Man do I miss undergrad . . .

junior2012's picture

so much depends upon what

 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 12:12pm

so much depends upon what major you choose

rothyman's picture

I think it really comes down

HF
(King Kong, 1,163
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 12:52pm
ambition56's picture

A lot of target and top non

ST
(Gorilla, 601
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 1:35pm
ceej010's picture

Based on my experience at a

O
(Monkey, 60
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 2:17pm
ceej010's picture

One other thing to mention is

O
(Monkey, 60
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 2:19pm
Avgasian's picture

Attending a top25 university.

O
(Monkey, 30
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 3:27pm
Matthias's picture

ambition56 wrote: I also want

CO
(Orangutan, 298
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 4:23pm
ambition56's picture

Matthias wrote: Idk how you

ST
(Gorilla, 601
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 4:47pm
JimYoungJr's picture

rothyman wrote: I think it

IB
(Monkey, 51
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 6:26pm

"You Want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet, What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid."

Short Bus All-Star's picture

Accepted to low ivies. Full

(Monkey, 36
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 7:38pm
Matthias's picture

ambition56 wrote: Matthias

CO
(Orangutan, 298
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 7:48pm
jrt336's picture

I got a 4.0 my first year at

(Orangutan, 337
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 9:48pm
Getgo's picture

harvard or bust

(Orangutan, 290
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 10:14pm

I don't think there is much

gnicholas (not verified)
(Chimp, 0
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 10:16pm
MMBinNC's picture

I always have thought that

CD
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 10:20pm

Reality hits you hard, bro...

MMBinNC's picture

Also, freshman year often

CD
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 10:22pm

Reality hits you hard, bro...

CompBanker's picture

I think this is a bit of a

PE
(Almost Human, 8,507
 
Points)
 on 5/28/11 at 11:56pm

CompBanker

rickyross's picture

Compbanker, curious how does

IB
(Gorilla, 542
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 4:43am

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.

mxc's picture

It's funny how target grads

O
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 6:41am
Gloomberg's picture

CompBanker wrote: I think

 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 10:46am
CompBanker's picture

rickyross wrote: Compbanker,

PE
(Almost Human, 8,507
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 12:32pm

CompBanker

kraken's picture

The skills required to

HF
(Orangutan, 324
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 1:44pm
CiroCorp's picture

I would kick ass. just

IB
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 2:31pm
selfstudy's picture

It's kind of silly to contend

(Chimp, 10
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 2:50pm
UFOinsider's picture

You should be fine at an Ivy,

O
(Human, 10,347
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 6:54pm

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

eriginal's picture

This is a strange argument. I

AM
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 9:03pm

"One man with courage makes a majority." — Andrew Jackson

Nandrinlouis's picture

somewhat relevant to this

O
(Chimp, 2
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 10:34pm
Unforseen's picture

Aside from intense eng, sci

(King Kong, 1,099
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 10:40pm

Check out my Blog

APAE's picture

ambition56 wrote: Work hard

(Neanderthal, 3,660
 
Points)
 on 5/29/11 at 10:56pm

A lot of people do certain things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

W845's picture

The biggest difference is at

 
Points)
 on 5/30/11 at 12:32pm
ambition56's picture

I don't think I would be able

ST
(Gorilla, 601
 
Points)
 on 5/30/11 at 12:58pm
Getgo's picture

i demand to know who gave me

(Orangutan, 290
 
Points)
 on 5/30/11 at 1:13pm
MrJetSet's picture

selfstudy wrote: It's kind of

CO
(Orangutan, 252
 
Points)
 on 5/30/11 at 4:00pm
entourage's picture

I went to a state school

ER
(Chimp, 9
 
Points)
 on 5/31/11 at 8:28pm
Gordon Gekko&#039;s Friend's picture

Ivy Schools hand out A's left

(Monkey, 43
 
Points)
 on 6/1/11 at 1:22am

http://themarketdaily.blogspot.com/

http://twitter.com/#!/TheMarketDaily

Gordon Gekko&#039;s Friend's picture

In 1890 Harvard's average GPA

(Monkey, 43
 
Points)
 on 6/1/11 at 1:27am

http://themarketdaily.blogspot.com/

http://twitter.com/#!/TheMarketDaily

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