Kimbo, just curious - why are you so sure you won't like banking? It seems like (from this post and others) that the lifestyle is the main deterrent for you. At least, I hope that's the case, if you don't like the work, you definitely won't like PE.

The reason I ask is that if you do two years at a good bank and interview for PE, you'll most likely have to drop back to 1st year associate at any respectable PE shop (providing the market has rebounded) from a 3rd year associate at the bank. Why not just stay on at the bank for one more year and make VP - better lifestyle, more pay (not on a title to title relative basis, but on an absolute basis). In fact, you should see major lifestyle improvement around your 3rd year as an associate, anyways.

Also, like I always caution - be careful about exuding too much enthusiasm to quit your job and move on. You may not think it has an affect on your attitude or work product, but often times it does. I could always tell what associates were talking to recruiters and who was unhappy. It hurt them twofold - low bonuses which in turn deterred their chances at moving to the buyside.

 

Gametheory, could you please elaborate on this further? I mean, on a demotion in rank in case of a move to PE? Even though personally I plan to make a career in M&A, but still from what I know and understand, people ONLY move jobs if they are being offered better terms. If an employee is a star associate (this might be the reason for him to get noticed by KKR or the like in the first place), he will NEVER agree to a demotion of any kind whatsoever. Star bankers are usually not just strong professionals, but ambitious people, and when considering a move, those star associates will require higher yearly income and higher (or at least same) rank (position title).

Or do I miss something that you dont?

 

When I was a first year analyst in banking, one of our 1st year associates had gone to b-school after being an analyst for 3 years in our group, then came back to the group. When I asked a VP why anyone would make such a decision (especially when A2A promotes were commonplace), he replied that the private equity job market was simply too competitive to get hired directly out of b-school because of all the people with banking AND private equity experience, and no other job paid as well as banking. If the associate was going to return to banking anyways, why not go back to a group where there was a reputation established. Made sense to me.

That same logic applies to why you'd take a drop back from a 3rd year, to a 1st year post-MBA at any decently large fund. As a 3rd year associate out of business school, you have 2 full years of banking under your belt - not too shabby. If you are competing for a 3rd year, post-MBA associate job at a private equity fund, you are competing with people who oftentimes have 2-3 years as an IBD analyst, 2 years as a pre-MBA associate, 2 years of b-school, and 2 years as an post-MBA associate. There's absolutely no contest. On top of that, in banking, the associate is just an extension of an analyst for much of their formative years (since most of them have no prior banking experience). You're just a paper processor for much of your early years. By the time you start in your first year as a post-MBA PE associate, you will have had 4 years of experience plus B-school. Post-MBA's at PE funds are expected to basically run autonomously when it comes to doing transactions, with somewhat minimal supervision by VPs/Principles, Directors and Partners. Some of your responsibilities include negotiating credit agreements, corralling your herd of consultants, bankers, counsel, accountants, etc., diving into due diligence...and that's all on top of the actual financial work (i.e. the model). Associates at investment banks just can't do that job day one. To expect a 3rd year associate at an IBD to be able to do what a 3rd year post-MBA can do is just unfair.

EDIT: Not to mention that your compensation as a 1st year post-MBA at a place like KKR would be very comparable to a 3rd year IBD associate.

 
GameTheory:
When I was a first year analyst in banking, one of our 1st year associates had gone to b-school after being an analyst for 3 years in our group, then came back to the group. When I asked a VP why anyone would make such a decision (especially when A2A promotes were commonplace), he replied that the private equity job market was simply too competitive to get hired directly out of b-school because of all the people with banking AND private equity experience, and no other job paid as well as banking. If the associate was going to return to banking anyways, why not go back to a group where there was a reputation established. Made sense to me.

That same logic applies to why you'd take a drop back from a 3rd year, to a 1st year post-MBA at any decently large fund. As a 3rd year associate out of business school, you have 2 full years of banking under your belt - not too shabby. If you are competing for a 3rd year, post-MBA associate job at a private equity fund, you are competing with people who oftentimes have 2-3 years as an IBD analyst, 2 years as a pre-MBA associate, 2 years of b-school, and 2 years as an post-MBA associate. There's absolutely no contest. On top of that, in banking, the associate is just an extension of an analyst for much of their formative years (since most of them have no prior banking experience). You're just a paper processor for much of your early years. By the time you start in your first year as a post-MBA PE associate, you will have had 4 years of experience plus B-school. Post-MBA's at PE funds are expected to basically run autonomously when it comes to doing transactions, with somewhat minimal supervision by VPs/Principles, Directors and Partners. Some of your responsibilities include negotiating credit agreements, corralling your herd of consultants, bankers, counsel, accountants, etc., diving into due diligence...and that's all on top of the actual financial work (i.e. the model). Associates at investment banks just can't do that job day one. To expect a 3rd year associate at an IBD to be able to do what a 3rd year post-MBA can do is just unfair.

EDIT: Not to mention that your compensation as a 1st year post-MBA at a place like KKR would be very comparable to a 3rd year IBD associate.

are you saying on average, it takes 8 years to be a PE associate?

 
pacmandefense:

are you saying on average, it takes 8 years to be a PE associate?

No, I'm saying that people who choose to enter into the buyside later rather than sooner often have to take steps backwards in order to gain entry (unless you happen to be an exceptional candidate). The average pre-MBA associate is 2-3 years out of college, the average post-MBA is 5-7 years out of college.

 

In general people are WAY too focused on exit opportunities in banking.

Yes, some parts of the job really suck and you'll hate the hours and all the stupid crap you have to do. But to be honest, buyside jobs are not THAT much different and much of the work is very similar. Financial modeling, Excel, due diligence, etc.

At large PE firms, expect banking hours at the junior levels; at smaller PEs and HFs, yes, it might only be 60 or so hours a week, but if you take into account everything else you do plus travel and other obligations, it's hard to lead a "normal" lifestyle.

After 2 years at a highly regarded boutique, yes, you could potentially go to PE but it will be quite difficult to get in because they normally only take banking Analysts with significant modeling experience. There's no rocket science to modeling, but you do need to know it pretty well to jump into PE.

Honestly I would recommend going the PE/HF route now rather than doing banking for 2 years at the Associate level if that's your goal... it's easiest to switch to the buyside after an Analyst role / before being an Associate.

 
dosk17:
In general people are WAY too focused on exit opportunities in banking.

Yes, some parts of the job really suck and you'll hate the hours and all the stupid crap you have to do. But to be honest, buyside jobs are not THAT much different and much of the work is very similar. Financial modeling, Excel, due diligence, etc.

At large PE firms, expect banking hours at the junior levels; at smaller PEs and HFs, yes, it might only be 60 or so hours a week, but if you take into account everything else you do plus travel and other obligations, it's hard to lead a "normal" lifestyle.

 

What percentage of an entering Associate class will make VP? 30%? Or MD for that matter? 10%? These are just guesses, and certainly the numbers vary depending on market conditions, but no matter what the true number is, a plurality of every class will leave the bank. So what do these people do?

 

corporate development at a large cap is a nice exit opportunity that should offer you a better lifestyle -- obvious downside is you're not getting paid nearly as much as you would as an associate in banking.

i'm not familiar with compensation figures but my guess is ~$100K (all-in?) at the post-mba level for a ~55 hr/week position. you won't travel as much as, say, if you were to move over to consulting

these are things i've picked up on corp dev, not sure if people who are more familiar with those roles have more color on this

you could also look into smaller HFs that don't work their guys as hard and still pay reasonably well... obvious risks there w/ comp tied to fund performance

just my 2c

Is it possible to break into Corp dev right out of B-school if you have no previous banking or finance experience, except maybe an IB internship? (I have 4 years of IT consulting experience and my goal is corp dev)

The salaries you mention. Are they at fortune 500 firms in US if you are from a top ten B-School? I am from Canada and I have heard that salaries are lower more like 90k-100k. If you can provide more in

 

Is it possible to break into Corp dev right out of B-school if you have no previous banking or finance experience or very unlikely. What if you can get an get an IB internship with or corporate finance internship? (I have 4 years of IT consulting experience, now going for an MBA at a top tier school in Canada. I have Comp Engineering background from a top tier canadian school and my career goal is Corp Dev)

The salaries you mention (120k-140K) for first year corp dev associate. are these salaries you would get at a fortune 500 firms in US if you are from a top ten B-School? In Canada I have heard that the salaries are lower more like 90k-100k. If corp Dev guys can provide more information, it would be highly appreciated.

 
CPAExtraordinaire:

would also like to see why, because from my personal experience, associates are the ones doing the in-depth analysis to start with (modeling etc) where analysts mostly do formatting and monkey work (relatively more so than associates). So from that, one may think associates got better PE/VC exit ops, but obviously that's not the case.

Someone else care to shed some light on this?

Amazing troll. Let's see where this goes...

 
CPAExtraordinaire:

would also like to see why, because from my personal experience, associates are the ones doing the in-depth analysis to start with (modeling etc) where analysts mostly do formatting and monkey work (relatively more so than associates). So from that, one may think associates got better PE/VC exit ops, but obviously that's not the case.

Someone else care to shed some light on this?

From what I've seen, associates sexually harass analysts & interns and are usually sued and fired. Can someone care to shed some light on this?

 
CPAExtraordinaire:

would also like to see why, because from my personal experience, associates are the ones doing the in-depth analysis to start with (modeling etc) where analysts mostly do formatting and monkey work (relatively more so than associates). So from that, one may think associates got better PE/VC exit ops, but obviously that's not the case.

Someone else care to shed some light on this?

Definitely 100% accurate... Can't possibly be incorrect in any way.

 

I think the trope of the post-mba associate strolling in fresh out of their finance class at Columbia (before which he was doing like marketing or something at P&G), ready to start bossing around the second year analyst who's about to make 2x what that associate is going to make when he goes to the buyside the next year and already has spent 1.5 loooong years doing things the right way is true all too common.

 
RoleTied:

I think the trope of the post-mba associate strolling in fresh out of their finance class at Columbia (before which he was doing like marketing or something at P&G), ready to start bossing around the second year analyst who's about to make 2x what that associate is going to make when he goes to the buyside the next year and already has spent 1.5 loooong years doing things the right way is true all too common.

Hahaha this is soo accurate. Everyone sucks when they hit the desk. Fact of life in IB. The learning curve is pretty steep regardless of your background. So to jump in as a post-mba associate when you have to learn to run a process so the end product is what the MD is looking for and directionally guide rhe workstream of the Analyst so thy arent spinning their wheels and you can check their work is not an easy thing when coming from an unrelated pre-mba field.

Not saying you cant exit. Ppl do all thd time, just not really to PE

 

lol i dont think there are many that "literally kill" for a job as an IB associate. yes, it's true that post MBA IB associates prob make $200-250k. Pre-MBA PE associates make anywhere from $200-$350k (dpenting on fund size). but keep in mind, these guys are 2 yrs out from a banking program and are 24 yrs old... with no debt from grad school.

 

For those who are concerned about associate exits.. Have you considered transferring to London after your first year or something? I know two recent examples of guys who started as associates in New York, then transferred to London and then recruited for the buy side here. One ended up at a megafund and the other one at a large MM fund. Over here, recruiting for PE positions isn't as structured as it is in the US with the analyst-only PE recruiting process. Funds generally consider everyone from analyst to associate. Might be a way into PE and then with the PE experience in London you might be able to 1) switch offices back to the States after a few years with the PE firm 2) recruit out of a PE job for another PE role in the US 3) stay in London b/c you realise the weather isn't that bad as people claim it to be.

 
above_and_beyond:

For those who are concerned about associate exits.. Have you considered transferring to London after your first year or something? I know two recent examples of guys who started as associates in New York, then transferred to London and then recruited for the buy side here. One ended up at a megafund and the other one at a large MM fund. Over here, recruiting for PE positions isn't as structured as it is in the US with the analyst-only PE recruiting process. Funds generally consider everyone from analyst to associate. Might be a way into PE and then with the PE experience in London you might be able to 1) switch offices back to the States after a few years with the PE firm 2) recruit out of a PE job for another PE role in the US 3) stay in London b/c you realise the weather isn't that bad as people claim it to be.

Interesting. In Asia it is similar too. I guess only in US people think analyst is more qualified than associate for PE.

One reason I can come up with is that PE in US has much heavier demand on modeling while peers in other regions (at least in Asia) more rely on experiences

 

Interesting subject indeed. I'm in corporate development now with thoughts of going to PE. Originally my thought was to go to grad school then go do banking then exit to PE. After reading this thread, not sure if I should just try to jump from Corp Dev to PE or go to grad school then to PE (if possible), with no IBD experience (I know handle is a bit misleading).

 
BankerC159:

Interesting subject indeed. I'm in corporate development now with thoughts of going to PE. Originally my thought was to go to grad school then go do banking then exit to PE. After reading this thread, not sure if I should just try to jump from Corp Dev to PE or go to grad school then to PE (if possible), with no IBD experience (I know handle is a bit misleading).

I have a buddy in Corp Dev at a portfolio company. He was saying that it woulf be doable/easy (depending on the situation) to basically hop onto a Fund's operating platform and just be part of the team they plug into companies.

Not sure how doable the transition is to the investment team. I dont know anyone in that situation or that has tried to provide any useful or factual advice

 

Interesting discussion so far. One of the first few comments was about Corp Dev / Corp Strat exit options. Are they more at a senior level or would you be better off targeting these corp dev/cor strategy roles right after an MBA? I am thinking of choosing between the two hence would love to hear thoughts from others. Thanks.

 
drexelalum11:
Death

So mean, but I couldn't help lol'ing...

Really I think corp dev is the only good route - strongly agree with those who've said it's really, really hard to break into buyside at that level - you generally need to make that transition younger in life.

if you like it then you shoulda put a banana on it
 

Curious to hear from those who are informed.

Here's what I've gathered on this topic:

From friends at Stanford MBA: "post mba investment banking is shit man, nobody wants it" - not good, implies poor exit opps

From posts on post MBA PE: "if you didn't do PE pre-MBA, you won't get it post MBA" - fair to assume this applies mostly to BB PE

From general observation: Banking is all about relationships, and your best bet to exit to the buy side is through relationships established on the job or through your MBA network. Corporate Development / Strategy is definitely an option for burnouts, but may not be desirable for highly motivated types

The most frightening aspect of this is I don't know ANYONE who has gone into IB post MBA and left for a buy side role.... as someone who is taking a hard look at MBA, i'm inclined to head to ER and have a better shot at moving to HF / AM after putting some time in

 

1.) I know people who got PE post MBA who had not done it pre-MBA. Most had done banking, but not all.

2.) It is definitely much more difficult to break into PE coming out as an associate. Makes sense though, they can get a 25 year old who had done 3 years of analyst training. Why do they want a 30 year old to do the same job?

3.) Exit ops seem to be lateraling to another associate position (if you call that an exit) or wait until you're a VP and make the jump to corp fin/bus. dev in the industry you came from (assuming an industry group).

Suffice to say, I would not take banking out of b-school with the expectation that PE is waiting on the other side.

 

Cartwright, why would PE firms necessarily prefer the 25 year old to the 30 year old? Technically wouldn't the 30 year old associate have more experience (and probably higher chance of him sticking with the firm because of his older age)?

 
ryanmonkey86:
Cartwright, why would PE firms necessarily prefer the 25 year old to the 30 year old? Technically wouldn't the 30 year old associate have more experience (and probably higher chance of him sticking with the firm because of his older age)?

More experience but not more relevant experience (as if one is doing IB post-mba they probably came from something unrelated...not many people do banking, get an mba, and choose to go back to banking). Both have 1-3 years of banking. The fact that the 30 year old has a few years doing something else is likely irrelevant.

They are hiring both people for the same position...PE associate. You're going to have to pay the post-mba 30 year old more (and you can't say "but ill take less!" as the 30 year old...doesnt work that way...same reason there aren't 32 year old IB analysts).

The 25 year old has followed "the path"...has all the skills needed for the PE associate role and has not had his mind perverted by some other random industry. They can send the kid to b-school if they want to keep him around, or just train him up within the firm.

 

Corporate Development / Strategy is a pretty good gig for burnout types. Take a job with a F500, move to a less-expensive city, and work 9-5 for $250-300k a year. However, most people who were attracted to banking in the first place would probably get bored after a year or two.

I would think that exit opportunities would depend a lot on how lucky you are in terms of what deals you work on. I know of plenty of guys who have done Top MBA -> Banking for 2-4 years -> PE, but it was all to smaller, boutique-type shops and not KKR/Blackstone/Carlyle/BainCap. All of them worked either M&A or an industry group and all the industry group guys went to PE shops that specialized in that industry.

 

Networking is going to be. Traditionally MBA associates either stay in banking or leave for Corp Fin/Strategy groups at larger companies. Some will make the transition to buyside, but it's never going to be easy. Things that will factor in will be your deal experience at the IB, the network you can build and your expectations...and luck, but you can't control that.

It looks like I will leave for bschool next year (assuming I get accepted somewhere) and will likely have to go with an associate role at an IB if I can't manage to find another PE gig. My intention is to get a few years of deal experience and transition back to the buyside if possible (assuming I don't fall in love with banking, lol). Hopefully I will make contacts in the PE industry that will allow me to know about potential opportunities. Additionally, I hope that the experience I get will better prepare me for a role at a PE and allow the PE firm to be confident in the skills that I bring. That is best done by working on deals that are similar to what they deal with, so either general M&A or a specific industry. Lastly, you have to have the right expectations. I highly doubt that I would ever be able to get a megafund PE offer coming out of a MM or boutique bank...which is what I would be aiming for. And that's fine with me, I really like the middle market and I like working in the south, so those fit well with that I am looking for. I am willing to jump from IB to PE at a decent MM PE fund, assuming they have quality guys and good sources of capital.

So, it's possible to get into PE, but it's far more likely to stay in IB or leave for F500 Corp Dev/Strategy roles.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

There seems to be a lot of wonder on this site (and from IBD associates, generally) as to why IBD analysts get so much more favor in the eyes of private equity funds as compared to post-MBA associates. Many posit that the issue is cost, and that analysts are cheaper. However, that doesn't fully explain the gap given most decently-sized and respected PE funds pay pre-MBA associates about the same as starting IBD associates and, in any case, many IBD associates would gladly take a pay cut for the career transition.

Here are the reasons, as I see them (they don't reflect reality in all cases, but I believe they reflect industry perception): (1) the best analysts are seen, on average, as "sharper" than post-MBA associates: they came from top undergraduate programs and were able to get into top banking programs from ground zero (versus associates who either failed to get in the first time around, or didn't know they wanted it till later in life), (2) the best analysts are seen, on average, as more technically savvy (you want your pre-MBA associates to be expert modelers), (3) the best analysts are seen, on average, as capable of working harder (younger, more energetic, and less likely to be burdened by a family to support, or the desire to start such a family in the near future), and (4) the guys hiring PE associates used to be PE associates, who used to be IBD analysts...and within the IBD analyst alumni community, there is almost certainly a bias toward one's own (which likely weighed heavily on this post).

 

I talked with a friend of mine who is a second year associate at a BB in IBD last night. He said that the big issue is what re-ib-ny mentioned in regards to modeling and technical skills. What he said is that analysts are brought into IB and trained to build models and build their technical accumen, which is exactly what PE firms want in their new hires.

On the other hand, IBD associates (whether they worked in IB pre-MBA or not) are being groomed to become senior bankers. As everyone knows, analysts are on a two-year deal and then they leave for PE/HF/Grad school and everyone in IB knows it going in.

One thing that just about every friend of mine who has entered an associate program in IBD has said is that they were shocked on how little they actually used excel. They thought they would be living in front of a spreadsheet, when actually they were spending most of their time checking the models that whiz kid analysts have already built. The PE firms salivate over those modeling skills.

To put it bluntly, the skills that associates begin to build are more aligned with the interests and long term needs of the IBD, not necessarily PE firms.

 
FormerHornetDriver:
I talked with a friend of mine who is a second year associate at a BB in IBD last night. He said that the big issue is what re-ib-ny mentioned in regards to modeling and technical skills. What he said is that analysts are brought into IB and trained to build models and build their technical accumen, which is exactly what PE firms want in their new hires.

On the other hand, IBD associates (whether they worked in IB pre-MBA or not) are being groomed to become senior bankers. As everyone knows, analysts are on a two-year deal and then they leave for PE/HF/Grad school and everyone in IB knows it going in.

One thing that just about every friend of mine who has entered an associate program in IBD has said is that they were shocked on how little they actually used excel. They thought they would be living in front of a spreadsheet, when actually they were spending most of their time checking the models that whiz kid analysts have already built. The PE firms salivate over those modeling skills.

To put it bluntly, the skills that associates begin to build are more aligned with the interests and long term needs of the IBD, not necessarily PE firms.

A little off topic, but the irony is that while PE covets those modeling skills in their pre-MBA Associates, success in PE is more about relationship-building skills and strategic thinking more than modeling skills. Like your Associate friend in IB, my fund's post-MBA hires do not build models and are really just checking output from the Associate's models.

 

Have you guys considered that post-MBA investment banking associates want to progress as bankers?

Investment banking at a good group in a good firm seems a lot more appealing as a career than being some mid-level paper pusher at a lot of PE firms (it may surprise some of you that not all PE firms are like Blackstone or KKR). For example, you can have some confidence that you can build a post-MBA investment banking career at some of the BB groups or elite boutiques. The same doesn't go for joining many PE firms, where you don't know how their next fund-raise is going to go. The team, nature of the work and culture could all be great, but it doesn't matter if their business isn't going to be around or grow. The mega funds are a different business than their single strategy / business line counterparts. Their ability to raise funds, pay / hold on to their staff, retain senior management and such are very different from other firms. They are set up differently. It doesn't matter that they may bid on the same deals.

As someone on the buyside (REPE), I can see the appeal of having a VP level sell side skillset / network. I'm not much use if I don't have $50 - 200MM of other people's money to invest. A VP at an investment bank should have some clients / relationships that he can call on if he finds himself out of a job. All he needs is a blackberry.

 

Well put Relinquis!!!

I am starting as an associate this summer at a BB in IBD and, guess what? I actually intend to try and stay in banking!! Talking to people in finance, the guys who I look at and say "thats where I want to be in 5 and 10 years" are the VPs, Ds, and MDs that I met in various IB groups.

It is kind of funny that 'exit ops' become such a big topic all across WSO. Maybe some of us want to get into banking because it's actually what we want to do. I wonder if MBAs who are trying to get supply chain management jobs at Apple are concerned about their "exit ops?"

 
FormerHornetDriver:
Well put Relinquis!!!

I am starting as an associate this summer at a BB in IBD and, guess what? I actually intend to try and stay in banking!! Talking to people in finance, the guys who I look at and say "thats where I want to be in 5 and 10 years" are the VPs, Ds, and MDs that I met in various IB groups.

It is kind of funny that 'exit ops' become such a big topic all across WSO. Maybe some of us want to get into banking because it's actually what we want to do. I wonder if MBAs who are trying to get supply chain management jobs at Apple are concerned about their "exit ops?"

Lol... I like the enthusiasm, but you haven't put in any time yet, so your opinion will inevitably change over time. It isn't a bad gig, but the more time you spend with those guys and you start to see the less of a life they have, less time they spend with their wife and kids or cultivating external interests, and you start to realize that even at the pinnacle, they are still a slave to their clients.

 

Relinquis makes some great points. There's definitely merit to being on the sell-side, and working in private equity comes with its own set of unique risks. The fundraising issue is particularly important, and I find that many people who are anxious to be on the buyside ignore it and treat any potential private equity job as appealing. This is so untrue.

On the other hand, the career stability of banking is undermined by the pyramid structure. At least in my experience, private equity is a lot less labor intensive, and the ratio of seniors to juniors is much closer to 1:1, whereas in banking the ratio was closer to 1:5. As a result, there's a major culling that happens at most banks at the Sr VP or Director level that does not seem to happen nearly as regularly in private equity.

Personally, I enjoy working in private equity a lot more than I enjoyed working in banking. I am fortunate to be at a firm that has capital, can raise new capital, and takes care of its employees. To BananaStand's point, I feel I have developed my strategic thinking skills and my relationship network vastly more than I would have as an associate in banking, checking analyst models for a VP trying to impress an MD trying to impress a client.

I do miss aspects of banking. Private equity doesn't have the same camaraderie. I don't miss the late nights of banking, but you build a lot of close friendships that way. And there's something fun about going from firm to firm and problem to problem rather than dealing with the same issues, on the same deal, sometimes for years until you sell it. The thing I miss least about banking is the hierarchy.

 

Great points from Relinquis, and glad to see someone represent that IB lifers.

my personal bias towards the buy side is i love being an investor more than i love being a salesman, but it's also driven by the following:

  • not knowing when do you get a decent quality of life on the sell side (assuming BB)
  • the assumption that working on the buy side, your comp is likely better tied to your personal success, and is uncapped
 

Great thread. Just want to have it saved. I can't help but agree with the consensus here about the abilities or drive of an MBA associate compared to undergrad analyst (the perception of the average one). The analyst will be assumed to be more driven, more early in life. Again, this is just want I assume the average of the industry perception is.

Might be a good topic for a poll on WSO. "What are your realistic plans post IBD?"

"Now watch this drive." -W.
 

the other reason why post mba associates don't get hired is because most of the people doing the hiring were banking analysts and there is nothing that is more hated than some post mba associate that made ur analyst life hell cause he had no idea wtf is going on

 
amach3:

So from reading all the comments, what I got is if you don't have IB or buyside experience, it will still be very tough to break into the buyside even with a top 10 MBA? Someone tell me I'm wrong please....

w/o networkin very diff - u dun have technical base , plus no ionside understanding onf industry

Naht impossible tho...

"so i herd u liek mudkipz" - sum kid "I'd watergun the **** outta that." - Kassad
 

For someone currently working in Corp Finance with the ultimate goal to be on the buyside PE/VC, what do people recommend I focus my energy on? Break into IB now then try for top MBA vs get promoted at current role + time for lots of extracurricular (building a story for MBA)? There will be trade-offs of-course because I came from non target. Breaking into IB will most likely mean MM or boutique, thus less competitive profile for top MBA?

 

bump

understand it it a different market today, but what are opportunities for a direct promote analyst (2yrs) at a top ibd bb (GS/ms)? how would they fare in the pe/hf world and more importantly where would they enter?

 

There are still some PE exit opps, but most go into industry, corporate development, etc. Many also go to business school to switch to consulting or to possibly have another shot at PE.

 

People talk a lot about the difficulty of getting to PE after going MBA -> IB. While I think it's true that the jump is difficult, it might be a little overstated. It's true that post-MBA IB asscoiates are not getting the calls from headhunters that analysts are, and PE firms don't fill their ranks with post-MBA IB associates as a rule, but it does still happen.

Also "said person" may have a bit of an advantage. PE firms are more and more looking for people with operational experience who can be involved in discussions about the strategic operations of portfolio companies. With more equity required to do deals these days, buyout shops need to create more value through EV expansion, whereas previously most of the work was really just paying down debt to increase equity stakes. This might put "said person" in a good position relative to similar candidates.

 

Hah, "said person" doesn't want to be TOO specific. Thanks for the advice, though, it is pretty much just what I was hoping to hear, and it is very appreciated.

Any other thoughts, anyone?

 

Interested in this as well. Forget where but I read that MBA placement statistics are somewhat irrelevant as an overwhelming majority are in different jobs within the first 2 years

I'm on the pursuit of happiness and I know everything that shine ain't always gonna be gold. I'll be fine once I get it
 

harvardgrad08 hosted an excellent thread where he mentioned that there is a natural progression from IB to Corp Dev. I imagine that moving from IB associate to Corp Dev Manager must be relatively common..

-MBP
 

Delectus et quas commodi asperiores. Aut et iusto incidunt ab iste. Id optio et optio doloremque sapiente. Eum rerum autem alias. Ex ipsam reprehenderit odio error qui.

 

Necessitatibus qui quia sed ea ut exercitationem aspernatur. Nihil est aut laborum vel placeat inventore incidunt. Consequatur quia dolor ut et nobis vero maxime magnam. Aut quia molestias magnam porro voluptate qui veniam.

Omnis dolorum cumque quod quia commodi porro beatae. Voluptatem provident omnis voluptatem tempora sequi sed. Exercitationem eligendi veritatis iure corporis ipsum quae.

Quisquam hic sed ipsum et velit ut. Eius doloremque earum quia totam vel rem eligendi voluptatum. In libero accusamus excepturi. Suscipit tenetur est eum a recusandae vero delectus. Error itaque est aut eos voluptatum dolorem et at.

 

Quas minima iste sed incidunt facere amet. Quidem ut reprehenderit fugiat alias. Nobis ducimus labore sed similique iusto. Eum sed consequuntur natus. Blanditiis veniam voluptatum dolorum cum non qui id. Ipsam sequi a aliquid incidunt delectus et.

Optio sit qui quia voluptatem soluta consequatur. Quia incidunt veritatis et unde. Voluptate harum eos sed corrupti quia voluptatum. Alias quis eligendi praesentium reiciendis temporibus. Accusamus quas reiciendis debitis dolor dolorem dolores. Eos et eos repellendus et voluptas et laborum.

 

Ipsa nulla et enim. Illo dignissimos fugit id aspernatur dolore esse. Qui esse qui nisi tempore adipisci. Voluptatem minus fugiat quasi enim est illo rerum consequatur. Repudiandae sapiente ea ea libero quasi. Rerum quae deserunt sunt ipsum qui.

Dicta ut fugiat corporis. Quae dolorem explicabo ut id sint non iste et. Exercitationem dolore non est labore. Alias velit similique eos perspiciatis.

Commodi mollitia ut soluta vel. Repellat sit aspernatur quis est. Ut porro alias fuga repellendus est. Debitis eligendi excepturi numquam hic vel autem porro. Aliquid quis provident qui molestiae adipisci quos. Aut aut odit laborum suscipit. Maxime distinctio est exercitationem aut illo recusandae ad enim.

Reprehenderit laudantium molestias quia sunt quod. Ea autem quibusdam illum quam. Asperiores eos eos pariatur soluta quae animi qui. Quod nemo molestiae et sed adipisci porro quia.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”