IB Lateralling
I'm a first year analyst at a BB/EB and would like to move over to a MF or a top MM fund after my analyst program.
That said, I'm not getting the experience that I thought I'd be getting in my current IB group, which is pretty specialized. I feel that I won't be getting exposure to some skills that I will want when I move over to private equity.
In order to get a more relevant skill set and also to boost my chances with headhunters/funds, I'm interested in switching to another group, hopefully at a better bank.
However, if I plan to switch after a year here, that means I won't be participating in the PE recruiting process in 2014 and if I fail to switch to a better group in a year, buyside recruiting will be even harder because, from what I understand (and correct me if I'm wrong), it's much harder to recruit as a second year. Moreover, will headhunters and funds discount my resume compared to my peers when they see that I switched groups?
Also, when do positions tend to open up for lateralling and how could I get an interview slot? Are most of these slots filled through referrals from friends/former frat bros/etc or is it possible to network into it? Who should I be cold emailing? Other first years? Second years? Associates?
This site is often filled with misinformation by undergrads so please only respond if you know what you're talking about.
Thanks!!
Also interested in the above. As a follow up, what are the perceptions at private equity firms of finishing a 2-year capital markets program at a BB, and then restarting as an 1st year IBD analyst at a different firm to get a broader skillset?
I think deal experience is more important than worrying about how long you were at each bank. If I were to screen your resume, I would weigh total deal experience and what you did for each deal more heavily than how much time you spent at the two banks. While I can understand your concern regarding time at each bank that recruiters might discount, I can tell you that from my perspective, your work on deals and how many you actively participated on is far more important than bank tenure unless you were thrown out of the first place you worked at.
When you say, "exposure to skills" what exactly are you referring to? Are you working in a sector you don't like? Not getting actively involved in the deals and just doing grunt-work? What is it you feel you are missing out on?
If you're already at a BB or EB (which these days aren't interchangeable for PE recruiting) I would only advise lateraling if: (a) you're laterally from a mediocre firm/group to a top firm/group... e.g., CS Industrials --> MS M&A or CS Industrials to Evercore (b) you're in a shitty group for PE purposes... e.g., ECM
Otherwise.. I think you're splitting hairs. As people have mentioned before live/closed deal experience isn't a prereq to getting a PE offer. It helps, but its no a deal breaker if you dont have it. You just need to make sure your prep is up to snuff.
Three examples I saw of people who left in their first year: Analyst1 left a Tier 2 M&A group for a top PE feeder firm/group Analyst1 left a mediocre BB industry group to go to an elite boutique Analyst1 left a tier 3 bank where PE placement was looking grim to a tier 2 bank where she atleast had solid access to tier 2 PE opportunities
If you're going to leave an industry/M&A group at an EB to go to another shop... this is my opinion, but its more trouble than its worth. The deal/work experience certainly isn't guaranteed there... also for the avoidance of doubt when I said feeder firm/group I mean EBs Evercore, Moelis and Centerview... and top BB feeders GS TMT/FIG and MS M&A.
I second everything in here. Only make the jump if it's a substantial difference, otherwise you're potentially adding a year in IB for very little difference in placement.
Just to clarify what Northsider is saying, I think you have the timing a little off. Usually when you lateral up to a better group / bank (see Marcus' comments on what that entails), they will expect you to either start as a first year or agree to do a third year. So you will be doing 2 years with your new bank (which is why Northsider referenced adding a year in IB). No one would hire you laterally just to have you for 1 year, it takes half that time to get used to internal systems and get to senior people's styles / ways of your group. You would end up doing 3 years total, meaning that after you lateral you will work for a full year before doing the PE recruiting, getting a job to leave after your third overall year in IB.
It's all about telling a reasonable story to PE firms, so if you are trading up they will completely understand. And while I agree that it's not necessary to have a closed deal on your resume, you really need to at least have participation in live deals to be able to speak well enough to deals (at least at the top shops), so experience does matter. But as pointed out above, good experiences are not just closed deals by recruiting season.
IHATETENNIS - to your comment, there is no way you should ever be doing a 2 year capital markets stint and restarting as a first year analyst. In pretty much all BB banks, if you do a good job as a capital markets analyst, you can usually move within your firm to do a THIRD year in an IB group. This is a common move, and one that PE looks favorably upon if you are coming from leveraged finance, or maybe a really good equity desk (because you understand the equity stories, then you should focus on leverage and M&A in your third year IB stint). But moving between banks is pretty uncommon and not looked favorably upon, simply because PE firms know that BB firms want to keep all their good analysts in house, so if you were not given a chance to lateral to an IB group in house then you are assumed to be a bad analyst. And as for he first year thing, that's just 100% off market (maybe if you were coming from a terrible bank? But never heard of that if you are actually in a BB firm)
Why would PE firms assume that someone who switched to a better bank was a worse analyst than someone who switched internally? Obviously the banks want to keep the good analysts in-house but that's not necessarily within the best incentives of the analyst if he can get to a better bank with better recruiting opps and/or a better learning experience. Do you really think that is the line of thinking for these PE firms?
Lateralling to Another IBank (Originally Posted: 03/25/2009)
I was wondering if anyone had any experience making a lateral move to another IBank? I'm currently finishing my first year as an Analyst for a MM/Boutique and have begun considering making a lateral move to become a 2nd year Analyst at another Bank (Evercore, Goldman, Morgan, Blackstone M&A, etc.), but I am not sure about the best what to do this or the logistics.
Should I apply through the Bank website? Should this be done through a headhunter? What is the likliehood and how bad would it look if an MD at my current bank found out (since they all have friends at other banks)? When would I interview and then begin work for the other bank if I were to apply now?
If anyone has insight on these questions and more I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
Good luck. Most of those places have been laying off analysts left and right. Blackstone's Restructuring has been hiring but they have had the pick of the litter of analysts that have been let go.
This is just a hunch but it might be easier to lateral next year. Since there will be fewer people with solid IB experience and therefore the BB's might not care as much that you worked at a boutique/MM. Then again it also probably depends on the quality of the MM/Boutique.
ib lateral-ing (Originally Posted: 01/20/2013)
Asking for a buddy at a small ib shop in non-nyc area --
currently first yr analyst (generalist with mainly m&a skills from target school) but wanted to lateral over to a BB in the city. got any advice for him? (ie when's the best time / have people done it / what are the interviews like / how do you find out about openings and get around to talking with recruiters, etc) or anything else u guys think would be helpful
Thanks
it's not a great time now, given state of the economy, but he should try to spend some time pretty much now and after bonuses. There may be some cuts of pricier people, so getting your name out there, and building a network for the time of the cuts and /or moves post bonus season is a good idea. Good idea to attend networking events and to hit up alumni who are in the banks. It will almost certainly have to be a non-posted job as now there's too much out-of-work competition and besides, once you've done banking, the best way to get in is networking. No shortcuts to that. If he can get himself an entry to some of the equity research conferences there also should be some bankers there.
bb lateral will be difficult but not impossible. these openings are often unlisted. you can find about them through word of mouth from the firm's analysts/associates or the internal hr team might reach out to candidates they know or communicated with in the past. though this wasn't your question sometimes good mm's hire search firms to source a pool of candidates. with regards to timing it is really hard to say exactly when these kind of spots open up because existing bankers may leave for any type of reason anytime. if you want to find out about these positions, instead of randomly reaching out to analysts/associates it may be better to get in touch with hr people that cover experienced ibd lateral recruiting (you can do a search for them on linkedin) and introduce yourself and ask if anything is available. interviews will almost always consist of few rounds 2 or 3 depending on the size and quality of candidates but you can expect questions to vary depending on your level of experience. some will be almost entirely behavioral (they will assume you have the technical experience) or some may really grind you on technicals and deals you've worked on. even though the economy sucks, these types of lateral opps pop up all the time at the most random of times. good luck.
IB Lateralling Question (Originally Posted: 09/28/2014)
I just started my second year as an IB analyst at a BB/EB bank and am looking to make a move over to the buyside when I finish my program. I had some interviews with good PE/HF firms during the main process this past winter but wasn't able to get past final rounds.
My current group has OK placement into PE but recruiting is fairly discouraged and the group is not one of the best in the firm. Given the interviews I got this past cycle and my resume, I think I will have another shot with some very good PE funds this coming winter, but I will have to network pretty aggressively.
I'm thinking of switching groups partly to increase my odds of getting into a top PE fund but primarily because I don't feel as though my current group is preparing me for the next step. Without going into too much detail, my group is fairly specialized and I'm not learning what I'd like to be learning. Would rather not elaborate on that point. I also think it would be helpful to be able to reset and start fresh with a different group of people.
I looked into internal lateralling and networked with the groups I'd be interested in making a switch to but I don't think there will be a position that opens up. Have heard from some headhunters about lateralling to another firm but not sure how that looks during buyside recruiting.
Wanted to get some thoughts on the situation from people in banking or PE, maybe someone who was in this situation before. Would rather not hear answers from undergrads.
What are the negatives associated with switching? If I move to another firm, how does that look in the PE interview process? What are some strategies I could employ to make the move?
Thanks in advance.
Do you mean that you would interview with the same firms again that you got dinged from? From what I know you really only get one shot at this and switching firms doesn't reset your eligibility.
FWIW I know one analyst who was considering moving from a BB TMT group to GS TMT and was heavily discouraged from doing so by a HH he was working with. Believe the thought is that if you're a top analyst, it doesn't matter as much what group you are in (as long as it meets some minimum threshold IE. BB industry/M&A group)
When you're recruiting for the buyside, the strongest candidates have five things in common: 1) Good deal experience 2) Great performance reviews (ideally, top bucket) 3) Strong branding (BB or EB) 4) Personable interviewer 5) Solid modeling abilities
4 and 5 are on you, but as you can see, 1-3 are essentially your "story". In an ideal world, your story is, "I work at a great bank, have worked on some really interesting deals, and I'm a top bucket performer". Making the lateral move screws up that story, because even if you had 1-3, people start to question why you made the move to a new group. You have to have a compelling reason as to why you made the move without screwing up 1-3 (ie, your reason can't be that you weren't getting good deal experience and needed a change of scenery). This is negated if you're "upgrading" significantly, ie middle market bank -> BB. But you're already at a BB/EB. Any "upgrade" you'll be making won't move the needle very much and will need to be explained with a compelling reason.
You might be able to put a better spin to it, but lateraling at this point definitely adds complication to your otherwise fairly clean story (assuming you have 1-3). I'm not sure you're in a bad spot at all - you're clearly getting interviews and final rounds. It's on you to close the deal at that point. Your group has minimal impact on the offers you receive if you're getting that far into the process (assuming you're recruiting for MM PE; Megafunds can be a bit trickier with pedigree).
Good luck and keep us posted on what you end up doing.
Lateral Investment Banking (Originally Posted: 01/19/2014)
For the past two months, I have been trying to lateral, but there doesn't seem to be very many opportunities available. Does anyone know if this is a function of unusually low turnover this year or bonuses not yet hitting the analysts' bank accounts yet?
how far have you gotten in the process? I imagine turnover will increase after bonuses are paid
Switching Banks (Originally Posted: 06/26/2007)
I'm about to reach my 2nd year at an i-bank, but I want to switch to a different bank in a different country. Should I go about with a headhunter or should I just apply directly to the websites?
Use a headhunter. And use a good one, as they will have access to bankers in the country you want to move to, rather than HR - HR can bungle your application up etc, which you wanna avoid. Also, headhunters will press for the bank to say yes / no, whereas if you apply online through HR, you could be in limbo for quite some time. Good luck.
"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"
Any good headhunters for ibanking you could recommend?
Where are you based - US / UK?
"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"
I am based in U.S., but want to leave for a different bank in preferrably a different country or at least a better group in a different bank in NY.
I'd like to know of any U.S. headhunters that work with investment banks as well, preferably in New York.
Switching BB's (Originally Posted: 09/03/2010)
Im in a dilemma, i have just finished up my first year at a lower 2nd tier BB (think CS, BAC, C, UBS) which i had signed on during my internship before they got pretty banged up in the financial crisis. I have been debating the merits of jumping to a top tier like MS, JPM or GS which is a pretty realistic possibility. Long-term i want to pursue PE and struck out in this years recruiting cycle due partially bc i came from a semi-non target and didnt announce a major deal ive been working on since i started until after recruiting was over. I have a pretty good standing within my group but its a sweatshop compared to other groups and not as quantitative focused as other groups (just nature of the coverage group i am in). In addition they are not supportive at all when it comes to leaving for pe or hf and have traditionally sucked at recruiting which i didnt realize until I was already placed despite asking around. I actually enjoy banking and dont mind the hours right now when im young and I know if i jump, i will probably have to put in another two years. i just wonder in the long-term if having a better brand name on my resume would help my career. Thanks in advance for all of the input.
"2nd tier BB" wtf? look banking is banking, its the same shiitty work across all the BBs
if you are good and perform well, i don't see how you cannot exit out.
there are tons of people in jpm,ms, gs that cannot find a PE job either.
However, if you can lateral to a good group, i would say do it because most of good buyside jobs are filled with people from those groups anyways,
BB lateraling (Originally Posted: 07/08/2010)
Does anyone know how hard it is to go from a summer intern at a lower bb like UBS/WF/DB etc to a top 3 BB like GS? is it possible to stay in ur current group like M&A or do i have to pick a new group too and network that way
how hard is it to move to GS is what i'm saying. the ranking shouldn't matter
Interested in this as well.
wtf troll..
What kind of answer are you looking for? Okay, so on a scale from 1 to 10, it's an 8. Happy? Oh wait, you'll never be happy...
Classic...haha.
OP, I hope you realize he's not just joking but also making a point.
so u saying its pretty hard. im deciding whether or not to take my expected fulltime offer or go out and look for other opportunities. i wouldn't mind MS either or JPM if they have a tendencey to take laterals more.
Why do you have to sign so quickly? Try to get some accelerated interviews at the firms you're interested in and see where it goes. It's not easy but it's not impossible either.
is wells fargo seriously a BB?
it is, considering its size.
WF is not a BB
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