IB: Relationship between BO and FO

I recently started an IB BO (Prod. Control) internship and I'm slowly starting to learn about the relationship between BO and FO in IB.

How is BO perceived by FO?

A few people from BO actually told me that FO people consider BO people as worthless scum. Is this true? Now I know that FO is virtually everyone's end goal and that it's much more prestigious than BO than if you start out in BO but is it this bad?

Also, a few times, a colleague of mine quickly said "shhhh, don't mention that here!" when I once said "Ok, so where do I find this learning material for trading (we have tons of online material on trading techniques, derivs, trading strategy,...), I want to become a trader?" (of course I wasn't 100% serious). Also, once I was talking with a colleague and asked him about his future plans, he had told me he wanted to work in Asset Management. I said something like "ok, so since you wanna work in asset management......" and he quickly told me to shut it and to not mention it here.

It seems like everytime I mention another division that's arguably more exciting than BO IB, it causes a bit of a stir.

Also, a 40 or so year old guy that works with me in prod control told me to gtfo after my 6 month internship and that a shitty position in IB FO is better than staying in prod. control, even if you get a full time job. He literally said "you don't want to stay stuck here".

Something I also noticed is that most of the older people (40-50 yo) in BO seem depressed, unmotivated. They come in, do their job and that's it.

What gives?

My goal after this 6 month internship is to secure a FO IB internship by the way.

 

I would listen to your coworker. He sounds like he has been there for a while and would do anything to move along. What I always hear is that the BO should always be working properly and thus they should never be seen or heard.

 

BO is the equivalent of a busboy or dishwasher in a restaurant: it's a shitty job that pays poorly. The people who stay there long term either (1) are too lazy to get FO or (2) aren't very career focused, and don't care. Not all BO is terrible, but I don't know anyone in ops who is genuinely happy there and would do it again if given the chance.

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:

BO is the equivalent of a busboy or dishwasher in a restaurant: it's a shitty job that pays poorly. The people who stay there long term either (1) are too lazy to get FO or (2) aren't very career focused, and don't care. Not all BO is terrible, but I don't know anyone in ops who is genuinely happy there and would do it again if given the chance.

Pretty much this

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

I depend on BO to help book trades, so unless there's a screwup, I am generally pleasant to them, and they work hard & appreciate that. There are some in BO with a great attitude and there are others who would rather you just kill them quickly. I guess it all depends on the firm and the politics/workflow on the floor.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 
Flake:

I'm not sure you understand what "making my point" means. You sure have a lot of opinions for a jr. year psychology student...I would probably shut the fuck up though and stop spreading misinformation.

ur argument is invalid the moment you use the f word in a conversation and should well be ignored, r u in hs or something

 
UFOinsider:
KaySpectre:
Flake:

I'm not sure you understand what "making my point" means. You sure have a lot of opinions for a jr. year psychology student...I would probably shut the fuck up though and stop spreading misinformation.

ur argument is invalid the moment you use the f word in a conversation and should well be ignored, r u in hs or something

YOUR argument. YOUR. I'm not a spelling/grammar nazi at all, but Christ dude, .......ur???? REALLLY?????

Also: fuck you. I've had a couple, and honestly, that needed to be said. Fuck you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i am so hurt right now, might develop low self esteem downt the road because some chump say bad words to me on inter web

urs sincerely

 
Best Response
KaySpectre:
UFOinsider:
KaySpectre:
Flake:

I'm not sure you understand what "making my point" means. You sure have a lot of opinions for a jr. year psychology student...I would probably shut the fuck up though and stop spreading misinformation.

ur argument is invalid the moment you use the f word in a conversation and should well be ignored, r u in hs or something

YOUR argument. YOUR. I'm not a spelling/grammar nazi at all, but Christ dude, .......ur???? REALLLY?????

Also: fuck you. I've had a couple, and honestly, that needed to be said. Fuck you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i am so hurt right now, might develop low self esteem downt the road because some chump say bad words to me

urs sincerely

Blastiose? Is that you?
Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
KaySpectre:
UFOinsider:
KaySpectre:
Flake:

I'm not sure you understand what "making my point" means. You sure have a lot of opinions for a jr. year psychology student...I would probably shut the fuck up though and stop spreading misinformation.

ur argument is invalid the moment you use the f word in a conversation and should well be ignored, r u in hs or something

YOUR argument. YOUR. I'm not a spelling/grammar nazi at all, but Christ dude, .......ur???? REALLLY?????

Also: fuck you. I've had a couple, and honestly, that needed to be said. Fuck you.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i am so hurt right now, might develop low self esteem downt the road because some chump say bad words to me

urs sincerely

Blastiose? Is that you?

u should keep drinking, that'd help you

 

lol, a kid that did a BO internship was one of my intern-mates this year in FO internship, the guy lasted 2 weeks and went back to his last summer's BO internship. he did not fit in at all lol.

 
vBEARED:

lol, a kid that did a BO internship was one of my intern-mates this year in FO internship, the guy lasted 2 weeks and went back to his last summer's BO internship. he did not fit in at all lol.

How so?

One thing that surprised me is the number of "geeks" in the division and bank in general. Getting into an investment bank for the first time, I expected to see only alpha male type dudes that had huge confidence, great social skills, went to the gym on a regular basis, had an amazing personality, etc.. really the top of the pack. But it's nothing like that at all! I'd have to say that most people here are a bit weird and it gets uncomfortable when it comes to social situations and just having a normal conversations with them.

The trading floor was the same thing. I once talked with an intern who was doing a FO trading/sales internship and it was literally one of the most awkward discussions I've ever had.

 
swissstud:
vBEARED:

lol, a kid that did a BO internship was one of my intern-mates this year in FO internship, the guy lasted 2 weeks and went back to his last summer's BO internship. he did not fit in at all lol.

How so?

One thing that surprised me is the number of "geeks" in the division and bank in general. Getting into an investment bank for the first time, I expected to see only alpha male type dudes that had huge confidence, great social skills, went to the gym on a regular basis, had an amazing personality, etc.. really the top of the pack. But it's nothing like that at all! I'd have to say that most people here are a bit weird and it gets uncomfortable when it comes to social situations and just having a normal conversations with them.

The trading floor was the same thing. I once talked with an intern who was doing a FO trading/sales internship and it was literally one of the most awkward discussions I've ever had.

you must be at an IB in texas then haha. all the FO guys in LA/NYC, all very alpha and all very social. its the guys in BO who are socially awkward, which is why that guy got sent back to BO. he got the FO internship because he was smart, got sent back because he didn't fit in.

 
vBEARED:
swissstud:
vBEARED:

lol, a kid that did a BO internship was one of my intern-mates this year in FO internship, the guy lasted 2 weeks and went back to his last summer's BO internship. he did not fit in at all lol.

How so?

One thing that surprised me is the number of "geeks" in the division and bank in general. Getting into an investment bank for the first time, I expected to see only alpha male type dudes that had huge confidence, great social skills, went to the gym on a regular basis, had an amazing personality, etc.. really the top of the pack. But it's nothing like that at all! I'd have to say that most people here are a bit weird and it gets uncomfortable when it comes to social situations and just having a normal conversations with them.

The trading floor was the same thing. I once talked with an intern who was doing a FO trading/sales internship and it was literally one of the most awkward discussions I've ever had.

you must be at an IB in texas then haha. all the FO guys in LA/NYC, all very alpha and all very social. its the guys in BO who are socially awkward, which is why that guy got sent back to BO. he got the FO internship because he was smart, got sent back because he didn't fit in.

hey texas is great, the biggest PE is there

 

@vBEARED This is so not true in NYC at all haha, there are tons of awkward geeks in IBD and any line of business. Half the people I meet in FO/MO/BO at my BB are weird, awkward nerds. Generally it is the younger people who fit this category, too.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

For the record, I don't think BO is bad, it's just not for me....everyone is different. And yeah, the era of the uber jock ruling the front office has been over for about a generation, I'm not sure why people cling to this stereotype. When I think VBA, excel, and modeling, all for upwards of 12 hours a day, I don't correlate it to a generally athletic person LOL

Sales/marketing, no, you can't be a social moron given your primary function is human interaction, but most other areas have at least as many geeky types as jocks. The weird thing is, I can't tell you how many truly bookish folks in analytics that say to me that they want a "client facing role". If you want a client facing role, you need a client facing personality, or at least the ability to fake it....work on that and then apply, I cringe when a guy/gal who obviously hasn't been out in six months says this, it's truly bizzarre.

Also realize that there is a heavy bias on this site towards FO, and specifically IBD. You could be the best trader on earth and be completely anti social. With BO, also realize that they are often just happy to have a job making 2x most of their friends, and that many people aren't as obsessed with career as people tend to be on this site. Plenty of people in BO are content with the fact that while they're not big shots at work.....they have a life outside of it. For many people, it's just a job to generate a decent income, and that's it. Shocker, some poeple just want to make enough to live decently and then spend their time out living life.

Just putting it in perspective, you have to do what's best for you.

Get busy living
 
vBEARED:
swissstud:
vBEARED:

lol, a kid that did a BO internship was one of my intern-mates this year in FO internship, the guy lasted 2 weeks and went back to his last summer's BO internship. he did not fit in at all lol.

How so?

One thing that surprised me is the number of "geeks" in the division and bank in general. Getting into an investment bank for the first time, I expected to see only alpha male type dudes that had huge confidence, great social skills, went to the gym on a regular basis, had an amazing personality, etc.. really the top of the pack. But it's nothing like that at all! I'd have to say that most people here are a bit weird and it gets uncomfortable when it comes to social situations and just having a normal conversations with them.

The trading floor was the same thing. I once talked with an intern who was doing a FO trading/sales internship and it was literally one of the most awkward discussions I've ever had.

you must be at an IB in texas then haha. all the FO guys in LA/NYC, all very alpha and all very social. its the guys in BO who are socially awkward, which is why that guy got sent back to BO. he got the FO internship because he was smart, got sent back because he didn't fit in.

Are you fucking serious? Investment banking in Texas is filled with loud, confident, social guys who were probably in a fraternity at UT or some social club at A&M and Rice.

You have no idea what you're talking about, so please go back to your 3 man boutique internship in Minnesota where your bullshit stories can barely be uttered out of your mouth before your frozen snot drips onto your little fanny pack..

And the fact that you just described a group of people as "alpha" tells me you just celebrated your high school graduation 3 months ago with a small group of friends and a 6 pack of smirnoff ice you jacked from your older sister's dorm room while she was exchanging saliva with the varsity QB in the community showers.

One more note, people are not "sent" to the back office because they're socially awkward. A guy that works in the BO at a BB as a managing director has been one of the coolest and most helpful people I've had a chance to reach out to. Just another reason that shows you don't have the slightest idea of the industry.

 

LOL this just made me laugh. people from texas... HAHA did i offend you? i used the word because the OP used it. clearly if i am making a statement about banking in LA/NYC i work in minnesota LOL you're a tool, thanks for letting me know you work at a 3 man shop with no future. your long attack just shows how much time you have at your 3 man shop. wait i take that back. go bind some more portfolios at your wealth management internship.

 
vBEARED:

LOL this just made me laugh. people from texas... HAHA
did i offend you? i used the word because the OP used it. clearly if i am making a statement about banking in LA/NYC i work in minnesota LOL you're a tool, thanks for letting me know you work at a 3 man shop with no future. your long attack just shows how much time you have at your 3 man shop. wait i take that back. go bind some more portfolios at your wealth management internship.

Congrats bud you're so alpha. Or maybe you had one too many smirnoffs. What a joke. Oh and wait, aren't you the one that was a bank teller who didn't know if a MSSB internship was better, and is now doing PWM? That's ironic. Fuck off troll.

 

I dunno, it was almost too one-sided.

I fucking hate Texas pride though.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

Ullam consectetur non voluptatem itaque est. Iure sed et similique velit totam. Sunt incidunt culpa neque delectus quis eligendi. Provident totam voluptatem commodi beatae et.

Est aliquam eum expedita ullam debitis eaque. Maxime voluptates sunt quis explicabo accusamus aspernatur eos corporis. Minima asperiores nisi ratione dolorem. Non natus dolorum perspiciatis excepturi. Et sed delectus fuga eaque est quod in. Aperiam optio atque quod qui.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
5
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
6
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
7
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”