IB: Relationship between BO and FO
I recently started an IB BO (Prod. Control) internship and I'm slowly starting to learn about the relationship between BO and FO in IB.
How is BO perceived by FO?
A few people from BO actually told me that FO people consider BO people as worthless scum. Is this true? Now I know that FO is virtually everyone's end goal and that it's much more prestigious than BO than if you start out in BO but is it this bad?
Also, a few times, a colleague of mine quickly said "shhhh, don't mention that here!" when I once said "Ok, so where do I find this learning material for trading (we have tons of online material on trading techniques, derivs, trading strategy,...), I want to become a trader?" (of course I wasn't 100% serious). Also, once I was talking with a colleague and asked him about his future plans, he had told me he wanted to work in Asset Management. I said something like "ok, so since you wanna work in asset management......" and he quickly told me to shut it and to not mention it here.
It seems like everytime I mention another division that's arguably more exciting than BO IB, it causes a bit of a stir.
Also, a 40 or so year old guy that works with me in prod control told me to gtfo after my 6 month internship and that a shitty position in IB FO is better than staying in prod. control, even if you get a full time job. He literally said "you don't want to stay stuck here".
Something I also noticed is that most of the older people (40-50 yo) in BO seem depressed, unmotivated. They come in, do their job and that's it.
What gives?
My goal after this 6 month internship is to secure a FO IB internship by the way.
I would listen to your coworker. He sounds like he has been there for a while and would do anything to move along. What I always hear is that the BO should always be working properly and thus they should never be seen or heard.
you are in an excellent position to gain an unbelievable amount of motivation over the next few months. It's either gonna get u places or it's gonna kill you.
Best of luck, CDNdude
BO is the equivalent of a busboy or dishwasher in a restaurant: it's a shitty job that pays poorly. The people who stay there long term either (1) are too lazy to get FO or (2) aren't very career focused, and don't care. Not all BO is terrible, but I don't know anyone in ops who is genuinely happy there and would do it again if given the chance.
i know for a fact, that FO guys are equally if not more miserable
I'm not sure you know what the fuck you're talking about.
thx for making my point
Pretty much this
I depend on BO to help book trades, so unless there's a screwup, I am generally pleasant to them, and they work hard & appreciate that. There are some in BO with a great attitude and there are others who would rather you just kill them quickly. I guess it all depends on the firm and the politics/workflow on the floor.
well there are ppl fit for a BO role, so I guess it really depends on the individual themselves.
This is true.
ur argument is invalid the moment you use the f word in a conversation and should well be ignored, r u in hs or something
Yes.
cool dude, and i forgive you
i am so hurt right now, might develop low self esteem downt the road because some chump say bad words to me on inter web
urs sincerely
u should keep drinking, that'd help you
Does anyone have any experience transitioning from BO to FO roles?
My girlfriend works BO at a multinational PE (KKR/Carlyle/BX) and she said people there are very happy, and FO analyst are very friendly and talk to them a lot.
PE is so much different from IB?
lol, a kid that did a BO internship was one of my intern-mates this year in FO internship, the guy lasted 2 weeks and went back to his last summer's BO internship. he did not fit in at all lol.
How so?
One thing that surprised me is the number of "geeks" in the division and bank in general. Getting into an investment bank for the first time, I expected to see only alpha male type dudes that had huge confidence, great social skills, went to the gym on a regular basis, had an amazing personality, etc.. really the top of the pack. But it's nothing like that at all! I'd have to say that most people here are a bit weird and it gets uncomfortable when it comes to social situations and just having a normal conversations with them.
The trading floor was the same thing. I once talked with an intern who was doing a FO trading/sales internship and it was literally one of the most awkward discussions I've ever had.
you must be at an IB in texas then haha. all the FO guys in LA/NYC, all very alpha and all very social. its the guys in BO who are socially awkward, which is why that guy got sent back to BO. he got the FO internship because he was smart, got sent back because he didn't fit in.
hey texas is great, the biggest PE is there
@vBEARED This is so not true in NYC at all haha, there are tons of awkward geeks in IBD and any line of business. Half the people I meet in FO/MO/BO at my BB are weird, awkward nerds. Generally it is the younger people who fit this category, too.
For the record, I don't think BO is bad, it's just not for me....everyone is different. And yeah, the era of the uber jock ruling the front office has been over for about a generation, I'm not sure why people cling to this stereotype. When I think VBA, excel, and modeling, all for upwards of 12 hours a day, I don't correlate it to a generally athletic person LOL
Sales/marketing, no, you can't be a social moron given your primary function is human interaction, but most other areas have at least as many geeky types as jocks. The weird thing is, I can't tell you how many truly bookish folks in analytics that say to me that they want a "client facing role". If you want a client facing role, you need a client facing personality, or at least the ability to fake it....work on that and then apply, I cringe when a guy/gal who obviously hasn't been out in six months says this, it's truly bizzarre.
Also realize that there is a heavy bias on this site towards FO, and specifically IBD. You could be the best trader on earth and be completely anti social. With BO, also realize that they are often just happy to have a job making 2x most of their friends, and that many people aren't as obsessed with career as people tend to be on this site. Plenty of people in BO are content with the fact that while they're not big shots at work.....they have a life outside of it. For many people, it's just a job to generate a decent income, and that's it. Shocker, some poeple just want to make enough to live decently and then spend their time out living life.
Just putting it in perspective, you have to do what's best for you.
You can really tell a person's age by their use of the word "alpha".
Are you fucking serious? Investment banking in Texas is filled with loud, confident, social guys who were probably in a fraternity at UT or some social club at A&M and Rice.
You have no idea what you're talking about, so please go back to your 3 man boutique internship in Minnesota where your bullshit stories can barely be uttered out of your mouth before your frozen snot drips onto your little fanny pack..
And the fact that you just described a group of people as "alpha" tells me you just celebrated your high school graduation 3 months ago with a small group of friends and a 6 pack of smirnoff ice you jacked from your older sister's dorm room while she was exchanging saliva with the varsity QB in the community showers.
One more note, people are not "sent" to the back office because they're socially awkward. A guy that works in the BO at a BB as a managing director has been one of the coolest and most helpful people I've had a chance to reach out to. Just another reason that shows you don't have the slightest idea of the industry.
LOL this just made me laugh. people from texas... HAHA did i offend you? i used the word because the OP used it. clearly if i am making a statement about banking in LA/NYC i work in minnesota LOL you're a tool, thanks for letting me know you work at a 3 man shop with no future. your long attack just shows how much time you have at your 3 man shop. wait i take that back. go bind some more portfolios at your wealth management internship.
God I miss these old school flame wars ^
....this place is getting mighty boooooorrrrrring
Congrats bud you're so alpha. Or maybe you had one too many smirnoffs. What a joke. Oh and wait, aren't you the one that was a bank teller who didn't know if a MSSB internship was better, and is now doing PWM? That's ironic. Fuck off troll.
i like how you looked into my previous post. what a tool, never thought i could network within MS PWM during the spring into an IB internship for the summer? what a tool hahaahahahah. texans.
have fun binding the books man. i won't be on this thread anymore you tool
Kay, I liked our fight better.
I dunno, it was almost too one-sided.
I fucking hate Texas pride though.
Seriously, I miss the knock down, drag out, verbal brawls that spiraled completely out of control or were hilarious
Like between the King and ANT, or blastoise and Blastoise
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