Post-MBA IB Associate Recruiting

All,

I was wondering if anyone can provide advice on post-MBA recruiting for 1st and/or 2nd year IB associate recruiting. During my MBA, I had a summer internship at a middle market investment bank. I'm currently working at a valuation consultancy and I'm finishing up my first year. I'm primarily wondering if it's as networking intensive as summer recruiting or if I should focus on reaching out to recruiters.

Thanks in advance,
MBAChimp

 

I would ask you why you want to get back into banking? What's different this time around? It seems like you are doing well at your new gig. We typically perform well doing tasks we like.. this makes me want to know more about your first banking position and what happened. Do you truly like the work?

I am in a similar role as you - SFA at F100. While the work sometimes sucks, it's not bad pay and work/life. Do you think leaving the workforce is worth the risk/opportunity cost? Could you do a p/t program and get it partially paid for by your employer?

CPA/investor/bballer
 

Thanks for the response man. I think you hit it right on the head. Sure, Corp Fin has decent pay and work/life, but I do feel like the work gets pretty repetitive. The primary reason why I would want to get back into banking is because I found the work to be somewhat more challenging and more excited as you deal with different companies. I would definitely expect to receive those questions during interview; however, my only worry is if interviewers would be able to look past my brief stint as an IB Analyst.

My company would pay for half of a p/t program, and that is something I am considering as well. The risk/opportunity cost is definitely huge and I'm still trying to determine whether or not I am willing to take the risk of doing a FT program and going through the recruiting process for banking, since nothing is obviously guaranteed.

Are you planning on doing a part-time program,or did you want to change careers?

 

One has to think that an interviewer wouldn't care too much about this because it will have happened 5-6 years prior. By going to a t-15 and then getting promoted that shows a ton of progression. I just can't imagine how that would negatively affect your hiring chances as long as your technical, behaviorals and networking are air tight.

 
Prospect99:

Hello All,

I contribute occasionally, but thought I'd make a new username for this. After Undergrad I joined a regional boutique firm as an IB Analyst, but was let go at my 1-year mark due to performance issues. A lot of factors led into this and really don't want to get into them here. Fast forward to today, I am currently a 3rd year Corp Fin Analyst (got promoted to Senior Financial Analyst last year) at a Fortune 25 company. I recently took the GMAT and with some hard work and luck, scored a 730. I do plan on applying to b-schools this summer with the goal of transitioning back into IB as an Associate, hopefully at a BB/EB. With my situation, given I was fired as an Analyst at a small boutique and have excelled in my current role, what would be the best way to overcome this hole in my resume during recruiting/networking with Bankers/Recruiters?

I really appreciate any advice you guys may have. Thank you.

Not to sound rude, but this post is unnecessary. Just say you left, or now you're ready--no one cares. It was a regional boutique, so post-MBA I'm sure you're looking to get into different firms.

Banking is so transient, that many of those guys you worked with may be out of the industry.

You have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to worry about. Focus your time into getting into the best business school you can. Then when you get in, go to the school that gives you best IB chance depending on where you want to work (what part of country as well).

You're putting the cart before the horse--worrying about nothing. And going to a fulltime program is what you want to do for IB--having an internship post-MBA gives you a much better shot than trying to do a part time, or straight through program.

 

I would take @"femzilla" advice and not harp on it. Look if everyone didn't have something go wrong you wouldn't have learned from it and be in a better position as you are in today. I would encourage you if your prior employment comes up be honest. "This is the situation that led me to where I am today and this is how much better I got." Personally I wouldn't want to work with anyone that hasn't failed. Good luck and stay on path.

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum
 

I spent 2 yrs in a FLDP corp fin and just moved to a corp startegy/m&a role at a private company few months ago so I think I have atleast another 2 years before I build a solid profile. Meanwhile...saving money to blow it all in 2 years later. I'm sure you already read a lot about it but if you want to be an associate you really have to like deals and be a career banker. I know ppl still exit ops but I'm inclined to say its very different than an analyst. You'll be looking more at corp dev/ corp strat roles as opposed to PE/HF.

 

Looks like you're on a great path for a solid profile. What are your plans after MBA?

Yeah, I definitely understand that exit ops are much different as an Associate than as an Analyst. Judging from the work of our corp dev/strat team, I think I would really enjoy it and would definitely look into transitioning into that type of role after an Associate role at an IB. The reason why I don't want to move into a corp dev/strat role right after an MBA is because I do want to keep my options open and decide what I want to do after a couple of years at an IB. I also think (can be totally wrong about this) that corp dev/strat teams really value IB experience and people who transition from banking are more likely to get promoted quickly within their corporate roles.

 

The type of work shouldnt be an issue at all...a benefit even assuming you can get your story down well.

Only 2 years experience could be more of an issue. I know that some of my classmates with less experience got asked about this

Overall though as long as you can sell your story, network, and interview well, you should be fine.

 

Try it all. INSEAD is pretty solid in Europe and Asia. I would use the Wharton for USA. Not sure about the specifics of your chinese wall, but ask if anyone you work with knows anyone in the IB division. It took me a long while to learn that the entire world runs on relationships. A solid introduction or a network contact will usually mitigate some of the technical shortcomings. However, Breaking into Wallstreet has great industry specific courses. I'm sure WSO has them as well, but can't speak from experience.

PE is the new black.
 

One of my mentors through Forte Foundation is also and INSEAD graduate who wanted to break into IB with no prior experience and she has been having a rough time. I worked in IB and during my time, neither I nor any of my friends at other banks had heard of any post MBA associates who had no analyst experience in IB.

My advise would be (as you suggested yourself) to look at smaller banks, I know BMO and SG for instance do recruit off cycle, and they also have INSEAD alums. The other option is to look abroad, Europe and Asia are better bets and you will be surprised how hungry countries in MENA are for INSEAD graduates. I can put you in touch with a few recruiters who have proven excellent here in the USA or I can introduce you to all my bankers in Europe and NA.

Always happy to help.

I may not be on the Jedi Council, but I sure am great with the Force. See my WSO blog posts
 

Unlikely you'd just end up in capital markets. You'd have to tell people that you want to be in capital markets. Nearly every firm is group offer based these days for mba hiring (except for a few - 1 or 2 come to mind - still not going to be in capital markets if that isn't want you want).

 

In the absence of MBA advice, here is some MFE Associate Recruiting advice at an MBA business schools">M7 like school.

1.) You need a summer internship. 2.) Recruiting starts early. Like in January. 3.) Recruiting is pretty darned competitive.

I would honestly start getting to know people now. As in, if you're in NYC, start going to WSO meetups. Start going to recruiting events for firms you want to work for. Or maybe if you're still working right now in a related area, think about some industry conferences. We have them in the quant world- hopefully bankers have them too.

I don't want to call it networking, but making friends with other bankers might not help but it certainly won't hurt.

 

thanks all for your comments. is banking recruiting really that competitive at MBA business schools">m7 schools right now? All i've been hearing is that it's the easiest thing to get into so i was feeling pretty confident about my chances (completely understand that i'd still have to put in a lot of work).

 

thanks orbit09 and LongandShortofit for the input. Completely understand how much work is ahead of me -- that's why I want to get started early. Will definitely be talking fellow ex-bankers once I get there but trying to look into things I can do in the meantime. I signed up for BIWS and started reading WSJ regularly. Wondering if there is any other way I can utilize the next 3 or so months to create a better story (my background is in marketing -- pretty irrelevant to finance). I'll look through previous threads as well, thanks.

 

If you are at any of the schools you mentioned, you will have a ton of resources available to you once you set foot on campus (2nd years conducting mock interviews, student clubs giving you the lowdown on recruiting at their particular school, etc). There's no need to worry about it at this point.

Furthermore, at the top 8 schools, the banks tend to come on campus a lot for informal happy hours, brown bag lunches, or whatever social event they decide to set up, in addition to the traditional recruiting presentation. Go to these social events. It's okay if you don't know much at first - these informal events are there for you to get to know these people. Getting up to speed on the industry/product groups and all that is something that will come in time, and the bankers know that. That's not their concern this early on (of course if you're still clueless by the time you get to your first round of interview, that could be an issue, but even for summer internships, that's still down the road).

For your first semester in school, just attend these events. Get to know the 2nd years who are interested in banking - they will be of great help as well, giving you the lowdown on their own summer internship experiences and what they did the year before when they were in your shoes.

At this point when you meet 2nd years (who can put in a good word for you for your summer internships, so be nice), as well as any bankers (mostly alums of the school) that come on campus for informal social get-togethers - they just want to know the following:

  1. That you can speak English. They're trying to weed out the internationals that have communication and cultural issues, and

  2. That you're not a complete moron in terms of personality. Remember that in banking, you'll be working LONG hours with the same people. They want to make sure you're not irritating, pedantic, overbearing, insufferable, etc.

In many ways if you don't know much about banking, or you want to learn, these social events are the perfect way for you to learn - to ask questions, to develop a relationship with these folks. The best impression you can leave with someone in this context is that you've got a positive attitude, you're not a dick, you are interested in what these people have to say (or any advice they give you), and so forth. If you give that banker the chance to impart his advice/knowledge to you and you come across as a good listener and appreciative, that banker will remember you in a good way - because that's the kind of person they want on their transaction team. Good luck

Alex Chu www.mbaapply.com
 

In order of priority.

1) Network 2) Network 3) Network 4) Know and have a good story down pat - work on this before you get to school and fine tune while at school 5) Network 6) Know your technicals but you have until interviews to get those down pat 7) Network 8) Read the news and be up to speed on some transactions and topical issues effecting the industry 9) Network

If you do the following getting a gig won't be an issue, though it takes a decent time commitment.

As far as group placement is concerned, a lot of it is driven by what groups your alumni has a presence in and your prior background (ie if you come from healthcare good chance you get healthcare). If for example your school is weak in M&A and you don't have anything in your background that positions you for M&A, likely you aren't getting M&A.

 

Echo the sentiments above. Network - learn exactly what you're getting yourself into and what to expect. Nail your core financial concepts down through class and be ready to be grilled through the interview process - there will be an element of bias if you come from a non traditional (non analytical) focused background like marketing. If you can get your hands on real models or whatever used in real scenarios, leverage ex banking analysts as possible. Coverage groups look for a different skill set than M&A groups and M&A will be harder without a relevant background, but not something you cant lateral into later if it doesn't work out for the first summer.

 

thanks ke18sb and -.-, all great advice. I'm not sure what areas my school is weak/strong in - guess will find that out when I get there. I've started doing some modeling on BIWS. Will keep that up and I guess the rest I'll just have to work on when I get to bschool.

 
abacab:

All the associate classes at BB are full I think. This was one of the biggest years for recruiting tbh and numbers are expected to go down movig forward. Not an easy thing to say, but BB IB is one thing you need to recruit for first year of b school. Hard to make a switch later on.

Thanks. I definitely didn't make this easy on myself by going this route. I'm just as interested in mm and boutique firms.

 

1) Definitely include interests. If they're gonna spend 80-100 hours around you they wanna make sure you're fun/tolerable to be around.

2) Relevant Coursework is good to have. Have you taken Financial Accounting or corporate finance?

3) Yes, a concentration in Finance & Accounting will definitely help you.

4) It'd be better if you posted and people could help critique.

5) Gear your resume towards finance.

Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening? Brill: I blew up the building. Robert Clayton Dean: Why? Brill: Because you made a phone call.
 

I don't know why you want to go into banking since it seems you were successful as an entrepreneur. I think the best thing you can do is network your ass off through your MBA network who works in banking and do whatever you can to get an interview at a Bank. Its not like you don't have great credentials. If your an MIT grad, that probably won't be AS STRONG of a network as CBS or Chicago, but still a good one. If you are a Chicago grad, you should automatically be percieved as someone with relevant skills for finance. As a CBS grad, your network, especially in NYC, should be able to get your foot in the door somehow.... Just keep chugging away till you get something. Its not like you were flipping burgers for the last 7 years...

 

You are fine. That MD is not speaking realistically about the job market. Banks will hire you. Don't worry about that recruiting cycle nonsense. You just have to dig into networking- undergrad, MBA alumni + any business contacts.

You seem like a better fit for a VC firm though. But I can't speak to their hiring right now.

********************************* “The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
 

Thanks for the input.

A few responses:

I want to get into banking to get the skills and experience. In the long run, even if I pursue another startup, I feel like having deal experience and strong financial modeling skills will be extremely helpful. While I have no problem building financial models, I don't have the same expertise as someone with IB experience.

I certainly will do something entrepreneurial in the future. A few things holdings me back: I'm fresh out of ideas and have a huge b-school debt. I want to pay off this debt as soon as possible. Even for jobs that I think I am more suitable, IB seems to be a blanket requirement.

I would also love to join a VC firm. But without banking experience it will be tough. Also I never had to raise VC and my company was in consumer/retail/food which VC's generally do not like, so I don't have the contacts and experience with VC firms.

Any ideas on how I might better position myself?

 

At this point there is not a lot you can do to better position yourself. Keep going after interviews, and, rather than change yourself, find boutiques that are open to people with less cookie-cutter backgrounds. Anyone have any recommendations?

 
Zzyzx:
At this point there is not a lot you can do to better position yourself. Keep going after interviews, and, rather than change yourself, find boutiques that are open to people with less cookie-cutter backgrounds. Anyone have any recommendations?

This is a major flaw. Boutiques are NOT the best fit for this guy. He comes from 2 target schools and he should have a massive network to draw upon (if he puts in the time).

The Bulge Bracket firms are all wayyyyyyy understaffed and they can more easily slide a newbie into the associate program or an off-cycle hire. They will actually train him. Boutiques need him up and running ASAP.

********************************* “The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
 

building finanical models is only one aspect of a pretty tedious business-planning process. dont feel like you need expertise in that area. if you went to a good bschool, then you already have the skill set required to put together financials.

other than that, i dont see why ibanks wouldnt want to hire you. youre young and easy to take advantage of b/c of your debt. i'd suggest going back to the career ctr at your school and try getting back into the ocr process for entry-level post-mba ib jobs. i think that will give you a better chance at interviewing than going through your network alone. but then again, youre way past the recruiting cycle for this year's class. bad timing, i guess. maybe for this year just stick to what youre doing while networking and looking for ib jobs, but also expand your career goals to other lucrative opportuinities like vc. thats the best i can think of.

is your job really that bad? look at the bright side, you could be unemployed.

--- man made the money, money never made the man
 

It is true that a lot of firms are looking for talent at the associate/vice president level, as the middle sustained the deepest cuts during the downturn. But I'm not sure if this is what you want.

I get the impression that you have trouble being satisfied with anything that you do. It's obvious that you are a really smart guy. You've pretty much tried everything: consulting, S&T and entrepreneurship. What is it about banking that appeals to you? Why didn't you like the things you tried before? Just curious.

 

It's true, I have trouble being satisfied with a lot of things I've done. I always find myself bored or not engaged. I found the most fulfillment in running my own company. I'm aiming to get back on that path sometime down the line. Honestly, paying off my debt ASAP while (hopefully) learning something is at the top of my list right now. The things that appeal to me about banking are the deal experience, financial modeling, the environment (i.e. having to work hard), and having peers with similar background/goals/mindset.

I think part of my struggle is I've done a lot of things but never really put much thought into what I WANT to do. I'm also trying to find a balance between making $$ and finding something I truly enjoy. Going to bschool because I wanted to do something entrepreneurial meant I didn't know what I wanted to do. I don't think any 21 yr old really knows what they want to do. If I had to make that decision again, I would have just gone straight into an analyst stint or taken my full-time offer at M/B/B.

I did my S/T gig only because I couldn't find the job I actually did want. There wasn't much I didn't like about S/T, but in my opinion, it just doesn't fit my personality. Same with consulting. I loved running my own company.

My goal right now would be to get a first year associate role, get promoted to VP in 3-5 years, and then re-evaluate

 

I think you'll be a good fit for business development roles at a growth company. It's probably as close to running your company as you can get - helping the company find target markets, evaluate development strategy, launching new products, etc. BD get paid well anyway but if you don't like it, a lot of them go to VC shops or start their own firm. Your entrepreneurial experience should be highly valued. The positions aren't heavily advertised so you would still need to work your network, but I think you'll find these types of roles more enjoyable.

Up to you, obviously. If you're set on banking, I also think you have a good chance of breaking in now.

 

I'm 100% set on IB.

All of the postings that I see for Associates want at least 1 yr of Associate experience. I don't think I've seen any for new associates. While I still apply to most of the job postings, I also find people I know within the firms to submit me internally, which has gotten me a few interviews.

So at this point, should I just focus on networking with alumni?

 

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********************************* “The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
 

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