Well that's as funny as it is useful...I realize it is a very pedestrian question but I am a newcomer and I would like to learn from someone more knowledgeable; apparently it won't be carinazhou.

"Give me guys that are poor, smart, and hungry. And no feelings." - Michael Douglas as Gordon Gekko in "Wall Street"
 

A stockbroker sells individuals financial instruments and often acts as a financial adviser. You personally will probably have a stockbroker execute orders on stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc. He is an intermediary between you and the markets.

A trader either trades securities or derivatives (options) to make profits on the trades themselves (say, a 20% gain on the value), or executes trades and takes a commission from the transaction itself. If the trade is sufficiently large, the commission can be very high.

An investment banker is an adviser to companies looking to raise money, to buy another company (or sell itself to another company), or to retool how its finances are currently set up. Investment banking groups that raise money are called debt capital markets (DCM) groups (bonds) and equity capital markets (ECM) groups (stocks); ECM handles initial public offerings (IPOs). Buying or selling companies is handled by "industry groups" specific to the companies' industry, and/or mergers and acquisitions (M&A) group. Retooling finances, or reorganizing debt and equity for companies in or about to enter bankruptcy, is handled by the restructuring group. The question arises how investment banks differ from commercial banks; generally, investment banks make money from advisory fees and loan little of their own money, instead matchmaking creditors and debtors (here's where traders may come in).

There's much more to it but that's an overview. Stockbrokers deal with the public, whereas traders and investment bankers deal with companies.


http://ibankinglife.blogspot.com

 

Do you mean a a retail broker or institutional broker? Institutional brokers are closer to traders as they work very large orders and make decisions based on liquidity just like a trader would. But since a broker rarely taking a position its not really fair to call them a trader because they assume no risk and simply charge a commission for execution. Floor brokers on the NYSE make .003 per share. Institutional brokers make between .01 and .05 a share typically.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 
trade4size:
Do you mean a a retail broker or institutional broker? Institutional brokers are closer to traders as they work very large orders and make decisions based on liquidity just like a trader would. But since a broker rarely taking a position its not really fair to call them a trader because they assume no risk and simply charge a commission for execution. Floor brokers on the NYSE make .003 per share. Institutional brokers make between .01 and .05 a share typically.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

hahah

 

Depends what kind of broker you're talking about. A broker in the interdealer broker category matches buyers and sellers in the stock market. These buyers and sellers are traders normally and, at its simplest, one wants to sell x amount of shares and one wants to buy x amount of shares. The brokers job is to match the two acting as an intermediary, taking a comission for the privilege. Therefore they don't take positions in the market. They just kind of match make traders at ibanks/hedge funds.

 

I'm two years late but I see it like this...

Traders make tactical trades in which he/she/firm profits from various inequalities in the markets, usually short and very short term. They figure out how to capitalize on the markets. The day-to-day volatility of the markets is critical to the job. It can be very high stress. Traders tend to be smart, industrious, and more "gritty" than brokers. Although there are traders everywhere, NY is the mecca.

Brokers, which I am, are salesmen that raise money from individuals and institutions and often funnel those funds into the products/opinions that the traders or analysts develop. Their investment horizons for the clients is usually long term investing so the day-to-day volatility is less critical. Brokers are everywhere... tens and tens of thousands of them around the country. They are the tentacles that gather money. BUT - each broker takes on his or her own level of involvement in the tactical/trading decisions of his book of business (ie. one might simply put all the money in funds managed by traders while another might do some tactical trades on his or her own). Brokers need to be relentless and charismatic. You can live anywhere and be a successful broker.

In my opinion, investment banking carries the most cachet. It is "white shoe." Think Patrick Bateman in "American Psycho." I bankers handle corporate finance, M&A, bringing companies public/private, raising capital for companies. You need to be top tier to get the job. You got to be top tier to keep the job. Horrific hours during early years but certainly six figure pay.

How difficult is it to break into each field? Let's look at the organization of Morgan Stanley. It is definitely easiest to get a job as a broker (tho damn hard to "make it" and make a living when salary tapers off). At MS, it is much more difficult to get a job as a trader or an investment banker.

 
Jerome Marrow:
pbbean:
Lot's of stupid shit.

Most of that is completely wrong or very incomplete, pbbean. Please no one listen to this.

I'm genuinely curious as to how it's wrong or very incomplete. What specifics are wrong or very incomplete? My guess is that you're a broker. I'm a broker myself with zero banana points... you have 45 banana points so I trust you. Please bless the internet blogs with your enlightenment. This is my first time posting something on an internet site so I don't know proper mannerisms but I work out of NYC and LA... if you have some kind of issue with what I said and live in either place, I would love to meet-up and figure it out. I'm not big on internet arguing but I am happy to meet-up so you can tell me about said "stupid shit." Or you can continue writing on websites and living vicariously through your computer.

 

LIBOR - I apologize for not creating an account under circumstances that are acceptable to you. What is the appropriate time frame in which it is acceptable to create an account in order to write a comment? I'm not hip to blogosphere culture. Jerome - I have to ask, how is the "you're an idiot" comment a specific of the flaws of my initial comment? I don't know what "troll" means but I imagine it has something to do with you still being a virgin at age 22. I don't spend time in Chicago because I'm not Polak that scams people on derivative deals but if you ever make it out of middle America, I'll gladly strip you of your bone Marrow and stuff it down your urethra.

 

"Prop Trading- where you invest the firm's own money and make your own trading decisions. Exist mostly at prop trading firms and hedge funds and Investment Banks before the gov banned them. Agency Trading- Where you simply execute orders for clients. usually referred to as brokers. Exist at both banks and independent firms called brokerages; difference being that smaller agency-brokers are pure middlemen and only fulfill orders while large banks have a lot more going on.
Traders are at the top of the food chain - entire teams in the back and middle office support all their trades and fix annoying IT issues for them. They analyze equities, derivatives, fixed income, forex commodities, and anything else they might be trading and decide on what to trade, what strategies to pursue, and how to invest the firms money.
everyone wants to be a trader, but it's tough unless you have the right education, background, and personal connections.
After traders decide what to buy or sell they call the broker and say i want to buy/sell XX of XX can you make it happen. Technically brokers suppert the traders but they're completely different from the back and middle office crew. unlike the back and middle office, brokers generate revenue - they connect buyers and sellers and make a commission on each successful transaction.
the more shares that a trader trades through the broker, the more money the broker makes - and the more traders the broker services, the more money he makes."

From google, discuss

 

guy21426 go fuck yourself I had more knowledge 3 years ago on the subject than you will ever have.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

Most of my brokers drive astons. So there's that.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 

Hey, first time posting here, complete and total noob at this (just got out of college) so please bear with me. I been sending out my resume to companies through monster and careerbuilder and I got a response from a company called "Arjent LLC". Has anybody heard of them? Its a "Investment Bank Broker Trainee Position" and honestly I don't know if it's a scam or not. I've heard from my brother and friends that they have been offered training positions that have ended up being scams. Anyways any information would be appreciated. Here is the posting to the job on monster: http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=102405163&fwr=true Thanks!

 
BTbanker:
When Icktar works up the courage to comment, given his borderline illiterate delivery and complete lack of cognizance of caps lock, you know you fucked up.

You’ve got to be kidding me. I’ve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It’s just common sense.

 
IlliniProgrammer:
NOT TWUE!!!! I SPEAK ENGWISH OK.
And I can attest to that from our discussion on crop dusters at WSO con 2012; however, you need to familiarize yourself with what we in America call 'the keyboard'.
 

I'm going to give a serious answer in case this a serious question from someone who fails to understand how the search function works. Investment bankers have a very regimented pay scale at the younger levels (every level until MD). If you survive to the MD level, then your bonus will probably depend at least a little bit on the deals and consequently fees that you bring to the firm. Trader's pay is all over the map. It heavily depends on how much money that you have made for the firm that given year. With that said, as proprietary trading is dying, I don't know how much production would get you a very large bonus. All in all, really good traders have the ability to make more money than investment bankers. But they also have a greater likelihood of getting fired and making no money in a bad year. A career in either, if you are interested in them for reasons outside of pay, will provide you with a very good living pay-wise.

 

how did you stumble upon this website if you think an i-banker is a stock broker?? Read "the fast track" by Miriam Naficy, it is a good book about careers in the industry. Institutional Sales is essentially a stock broker....i-banking is much different

 

stock broker= sort of the middlemen helping make trades between those selling & those buying.

i-bankers= ppl helping those who want to raise capital by issuing securities and selling 'em to those who are willing to buy.

sounds to me pretty much the same job

 
chevalier:

I'm a physics + biomedical computation double major (soph) at stanford with 3.0 cum. GPA.

Most of my physics classmates are too busy with quantum mech. problem sets or in that dark basement lab trying to figure out bose-einstein condensation to care about other things, but I got curious about this ibanking career recently because it seem to be a "cool" job to have.

I would really want to have some feedback if my 3.0 GPA is an insurmountable roadblock for me to get an internship with BB? My physics GPA is actually quite good, what brought it down so much was the Organic chem classes i took last year. Anyway, I would really like to hear some feedback.

Thanks

You have no chance. Why don't you try learn something before you come on here talking smack.

Go put on a lab coat or something.

 

TD Ameritrade is a small online retail broker catered to individuals. You also have Scottrade etc. (i did notice sarcasm though)

Investment banks also does this on a large scale ie. issuing/buying stocks from corporates and selling stocks to hedge/mutual funds.

 

something not right? like what?

about lying. I think people make more lies everyday than they go to bathroom. but i try to be honest to the point of stupidity.

 
streetluck:
Signs that you are asian:

1) You go to Stanford 2) You are majoring in Physics 3) You are majoring in "Biomedical Computation" 4) You used the phrase "make more lies" 5) You think i-banking would be a "cool" job to have. Anyone remember the Harold & Kumar scene?

Streetluck are you asian? Otherwise you might want to stop generalizing here. I say this b/c Ive seen plenty of kids from all diff races be in the dark about banking. Its not race specific.

 

I interned at a Stock Brokerage my sophomore summer. Half of them only promote what the company's research analysts have as buys and then sell when the analysts say sell. I mean a monkey with a slick tongue can succeed at that.

Granted we are sell side, but christ, pitching to CEOs requires a lot more work than selling to individual investors.

Funny that the PE guys talk so much trash considering for many of them, the BB's fund them and set their deals up in the first place.

 

90% of them were "brokers" prior. There is a new level of elitism associated with top tier PE though.... Bulge hire 100-150 a year... Top tier PE hire less than 20.

Alexey Kirilov:
I interned at a Stock Brokerage my sophomore summer. Half of them only promote what the company's research analysts have as buys and then sell when the analysts say sell. I mean a monkey with a slick tongue can succeed at that.

Granted we are sell side, but christ, pitching to CEOs requires a lot more work than selling to individual investors.

Funny that the PE guys talk so much trash considering for many of them, the BB's fund them and set their deals up in the first place.

-- Interview Guides GMAT Tutors WSO Resume Review --- Current: Senior Analyst - Hedge Fund Past: Associate - Tech Buyout Analyst - Morgan St
 

Brokers are generally paid on a sliding scale with entry level brokers earning about 30% of their revenue and top producers earning about 50%. If they work at independent firms this can be much higher but then the broker will have to cover basic expenses like rent and legal.

Traders are paid base/bonus like a traditional employee, and traders are using the firm's capital. Out of the gate traders will almost always do better, but brokers/advisers can do incredibly well in the long run if they are able to attract enough client assets.

 
ArcherVice:

Are you looking for confirmation bias to become a "stockbroker" ?

haha you are correct sir. i don't know too much, as everyone can likely tell from the silly question. but honestly i want to know where the money is. who makes the most and whatnot.
 
DickFuld:

Honestly, if you're asking this question, you haven't done enough research to become successful at either job.

i came here to maybe learn from people who have experience and know brokers and traders. i haven't found solid information on brokers and their commissions anywhere. I've found loads of information on traders though.

and if im not mistaken i believe dick fuld was one of the worst ceo's of all time and one who contributed greatly to the 2008 financial crisis.

 

obviously i dont know too much if anything at all but any comments that don't provide any useful information don't help me learn either. i came here because i haven't really found anything else online and i have searched thoroughly. dont bother commenting if you can't give me information to help me learn and maybe prevent me from asking a similarly stupid question later.

 

you didn't thoroughly research. I just typed "stockbroker" in the search bar, the WSO FAQ plus my blog came up, c'mon dude.

I understand you want to make money, but first figure out what the business is all about, S&T & PWM are different in so many ways I could write another blog on it.

sorry if that was mean, but your comments came off as douchey. your screen name is a reference to gordon gekko, you say you want to go where the money is, and you don't do your homework. if you were a broker, you would be exactly what is wrong with this industry.

 

It also depends if you are taking about FAs or Institutional Sales, there is a difference. As a blanket statement traders tend to pull in a bit more than brokers although, and this is from an institutional perspective, if you have the right votes/relationships as a broker you are almost guaranteed to be paid extremely well.

Nice guys may not finish last but they sure don't finish first. Loyalty is not rewarded, it's taken advantage of. 
 

Since when did bankers make over a million dollars 2.5 years into the job?

-------------------------------------------------------- "I do not think there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcom
 

Awesome news for all the bankers out there. Based on these powerful equations that are clearly based in rigorous analysis and aren't competely fabricated, after 25 years of work, you should be expecting to pull in a little over $631 mil! If you can stick it out for five more years after that, you'll be hauling home a $3.6 billion bonus! Rub that in the faces of your S&T buddies who are theoretically limited to a max payday of $2.5 mil.

 
Scrambles:
Awesome news for all the bankers out there. Based on these powerful equations that are clearly based in rigorous analysis and aren't competely fabricated, after 25 years of work, you should be expecting to pull in a little over $631 mil! If you can stick it out for five more years after that, you'll be hauling home a $3.6 billion bonus! Rub that in the faces of your S&T buddies who are theoretically limited to a max payday of $2.5 mil.

uhhh come on, you can't extrapolate

be realistic and take the chart provided to you as gospel

 

If bonuses hold constant, 115k, if they decline a bit, 90 - 100k.

I plan on paying for my MBA after 2+ more years of private equity afterwards.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

This topic has been covered ad nauseum. The bottom line is you won't have as much saved as you plan. I'd be VERY impressed if anyone saved $115.

-------------- Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot
 

BSD123: The cost of living where I am is significantly cheaper than NY. I can easily live the high life off of my base and save my entire bonus.

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

Of course you can live the high life. You don't have any time to do anything anyway... a high life once a month isn't going to cost much. Me personally, I've fared a lot better than some of the figures thrown around here.

 

Well, if you're living in nyc, dependent on a bunch of things obviously, I think you can reasonablly expect to 1)max your 401k and b) save 40% of your gross bonus....if you're prepared to operate in a "saving" mentality.

I have friends who've lived in other places, and who still do who can save much more...even though bonuses in chicago or charlotte might be lower they can save quite a bit more potentially. not true the further you advance though.

 

Lies...

Only way this is possible is if your the son of a boutique IB owner. If not the only real place to make that cash is a BB and by 28 you will be a 2nd maybe 3rd year Associate because you will graduate at 22, analyst stint until 24, b-school until 26, and then associate.

In closing there is NO associate without special circumstances that makes near 600K never mind 1MM.

ST can make good money because they can make 80K in one week with good luck, never going to happen in IB, but IB has more of a steady salary stream.

 

tbroker happens to hold more cynical views than anybody on this board regarding a career in IB, so let me set this straight:

  1. Yes, people have made MD before 30 in banking. I've personally met someone who did this. Not as common as in trading, obviously.

  2. If you skip b-school and do the direct associate promote, your timeline is off (associate at 24). Furthermore, even if we do follow your timeline, we have:

age 27, 2nd year associate

age 28, 3rd year associate

age 29, VP

VPs can make bank. Well over 600k, possibly into the seven figures, although that may only apply to the more senior VPs who are about to make MD.

_______________________________________ http://www.drmarkklein.blogspot.com/
 

ehhh they are very similar to an agency trader. In equities they are in fact agency traders. If you were to broker something more complicated such as say Variance swaps or FX options its more about purely linking buyers and sellers providing anonymity for banks to trade with each other. Could always say you love interacting with people and are the life of the party and have a very tolerant liver.

"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
 

From your comment it seems like I asked a really vague question. Sorry about that.

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."
 

This year, first year associates (directly out of b-school), made the exact same in both IB and S&T, at all banks that have announced (CS, UBS, and Barclays Capital have not released earnings yet, not sure about bonus numbers). Only exception I've heard of is Citi, which underpaid slightly. But IB and S&T were the same at all banks for signing, base, and stub. To the penny. Relo varied from bank to bank but was the same for S&T and IB within the bank. For an associate's first full-year bonus (roughly 1 1/2 years into work, assuming MBA hire not analyst promote), that's when the differences show up. Average and/or median will probably be the same for both, but in S&T there will be more variance.

 

There is "no better" one, kid. You just have to figure out 1) what you are good at doing and 2) how to get there. This whole "debate" would be more appropriate for high school or college confidential forums...(middle school kids generally don't think about making loads of money, otherwise their forum would be a good fit).

All that said, I won't disagree if you want to debate your mom's is better.

Sorry if my answer doesn't make you feel fuzzy inside. If you want to feel fuzzyy inside try taking a philosophy class (presuming you are in college) where you can debate all you want about abstract shit; it made me feel fussy inside for a while. Otherwise, here you just made everyone fussy.

"Categorical Imperative: If I cannot look at my mother or my wife in the eyes and explain it, I won't do it" - Some British MD.
 

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The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 

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“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

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