Hey, how much of the b/w $75-$130k you'll be making as a first year in one of the following cities is London, Paris or Stockholm going to take away in taxes/benefits/etc compared to Manhattan? I've enjoyed living in NYC but think that trying a Euro city for a few years would be enriching..
| +173 | The "Not So Obvious" things that get you a return offer? | 20 | 11h | |
| +108 | Is my life over after not getting GS? | 27 | 1h | |
| +70 | Best IB group on the Street | 31 | 50m | |
| +58 | BIG FOUR ARE PARADISE | 15 | 13h | |
| +50 | Thoughts and tips on how to speak like an investment banker. | 25 | 13h | |
| +48 | Tell me one good reason why Jefferies isn’t going to be a top bank in the next 5 years | 23 | 5h | |
| +36 | UBS Outlook | 28 | 1d | |
| +34 | How to deal with egotistical team? | 6 | 3d | |
| +33 | Highest Paid Bankers in Toronto? | 51 | 11h | |
| +25 | Got RBC offer but I have cold feet accepting. | 34 | 12m |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
You will be eviscerated in Paris and Stockholm. Don't get me wrong, you'd have a blast in those cities and its probably better to do so outside of your peak earning years and while you are still young. But you're gonna get creamed.
For Paris at that income range you are basically looking at anywhere between 55-65% in taxes not to mention the 20% VAT on everything you purchase and its not known as a cheap city to live in.
In France, the effective income tax rate would be around 27.5% on a EUR 100K annual income
The published income tax alone for that income level is 41% + 8% social taxes... 49% and now add in social security taxes you are closer to 65%. I don't know where you are getting those numbers, I have friends there (I have a house there) currently being raked over the coals by taxes.
Please show me where you are getting 27.5% all in income taxes from because that is about what all in taxes are here in the USA for that income level.
Also to consider, some continental European countries have a legal minimum number of paid days off. I think in a lot of them it is like 20 days BEFORE holidays. Always been curious if this applies to banking but you should look into it.
There is a legal minimum but within banking it is generally not really enforced. I know guys who worked for 2 years without taking more than a few days a year off during their analyst period.
Thanks for the insight. Kind of what I suspected.
Does anyone know of a website with these stats?
I lived in london for a few years and while I forget the actual %'s it's not much different than the US. You still have to file with the IRS but you basically pay the greater amount of the taxes because of the tax treaty between the US and UK and your first $75k(?) isn't taxed there but it is in the US. But london is really expensive for everything else. Like @archervice said you get heavily taxes in France and even worse in Sweden. It's one thing if you're a citizen or are going to stay there forever and get the cradle to grave benefits but if you're only going to be there for a few years you pretty much just pay a lot in taxes without the benefits.
And regarding vacation days, there are a ton of them. I wasn't at the analyst level and didn't know people at that level but I found that you were encouraged to take all of your days off and it wasn't a big deal, and almost encouraged, to take a full two weeks straight in the summer. The City is dead in august.
No doubt, they get tons of vacation time. In France one of our sub contractors took 2.5hr lunches loll.
I think the best set-up I've come across is someone working in London and able to work remotely part of the time from the South of France.
Can I apply to that job?
I have spent a lot of time in Stockholm, London, and NYC...London and NYC are fairly comparable especially at your comp level. Stockholm is insane all -in will be north of 60% income tax easily. It is an amazing city and I love the place but you don't move there to get rich and actually they aren't really very welcoming culturally to foreigners actually moving there anyway. But it is an amazing city...beautiful, cool people, etc. I don't know Paris well except for a few fun nights.
We owned a company that had an office in Sweden and their tax rates were outrageous, especially because we had some high earners in that office. But tax evasion was like the national sport. One of the guys actually asked us to wire their pay directly into their bank accounts in Switzerland, then Antigua then finally Lichtenstein and he acted like it wasn't a big deal.
This is really useful as it gives a nice breakdown: http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk
Paris income taxes are lower than in NYC. However you also have health care and retirement benefits which are taken out automatically, housing taxes and of course VAT. All in all, basically the same as living in Manhattan when you take into account city taxes and their sales taxes.
Income taxes are progressive and here's the catch: you pay them when you declare your income taxes. No refunds here.
This doesn't apply if you're doing the corporate or government expat thing though.
In london is abt 40%. It sucks..when u see the net pay into ur bank account. I hate HMRC.
For London and Paris it isn't even the taxes which will get you, its the accommodation....... but anyway; -London 10k is tax free as savings, earnings between that and 32k incurs 20%, earning past 32 incur 40%. -Sweden has probably most comprehensive welfare state globally, and tax is high accordingly (as with a lot of scandi countries) - also massive employee protection, really hard to fire people. -France €6,012 - €11,991 = 5.5%, €11,992 - €26,631 = 14%, €26,632 - €71,397 = 30%, €71,398 - €151,200 = 41% But, the French have a ridiculously short definition of the working week (this caused quite a few issues with EU legislation), are fond of long lunches and have massive holiday entitlements. BUT: No need to pay medical, dental etc but some will offer you private coverage anyways imho if you wanted a European city then look past London - it has the same melting pot characteristic of any major hub. But, if you don't speak French/ Swedish you will have pretty limited choices anyways.... Frankfurt & Dusseldorf for Germany, Milan for Italy are regional hubs also. Often overlooked but a fucking AMAZING city with a nice tax rate and no language barrier and recovering(ish) financial hiring is Dublin. Don't expect any love for being in finance though. P.S Expect an additional high tax bracket for the UK in a years time also. EDIT: If you are still considering Euro cities then Amsterdam & Luxembourg are worth a shot as I know a few people who speak English only who work in these cities
Don't forget + 8% social tax and then social security taxes which are steep + 20% VAT.
Also somebody failed to mention that as soon as you earn a decent amount they take away the tax free allowance on your first GBP 8k
France is not bad for people who are salaried employees - there is a fallacy that taxes are insane. Taxes are insane for corporates and independent employees. Otherwise Paris = London = New York more or less. (I am making VERY broad generalisations here).
Good news is: as a US citizen most European countries have a comparable tax rate to the US, so you most likely won't have to pay any extra taxes to uncle Sam.
Mentioned that given the current statements being made from the likely winner of the next election..... 'We will reverse David Cameron's tax cut for the richest few'
Note. Pay in some EU countries may be lower to remain consistent with university being "free"
I guess this is bundled into the welfare state as a whole, I think it is a pretty hard thing to control for/ is not the most relevant among other factors. I.E Norway - Everything paid for (at home or abroad), good wages - oil wealth. Germany, low education debt ceiling (heavily subsidized education, verging on free) strong wages - strong economy. Italy, ridiculous subsidies (there or stories of people taking 6 years to complete a degree, cos fuck it, why not) weak economy, soaring unemployment, shit pay. UK - Highest cost of education in Western Europe, avg. public sector, wages fairly consistent with other EU economies except that you get a London extra due to cost of living (even public sector starting wages will give you a around 10% London Living Allowance). If I had to list importance of factors affected by country; Wage setting difference (GR/SWZ etc are coordinated bargaining, whereas UK etc are market determined) Level of 18-35 unemployment, Eurozone or not, cost of living, and overall size of welfare state (this is a big factor in the scandi countries as well as IT/ FR) would come way before factoring in 'free' education. Just my thoughts on it though.
But is the IB environment solid in Amsterdam?
Totally dependent on your point of comparison I suppose - it's no NYC/LDN. Historically, Ams & ldn were the first stock exchanges so it has a pretty deeply ingrained financial industry and shares the Benelux financial market with lux (different attraction) has a few good boutiques scattered in between larger ABN, Rabo, ING types. One thing to note, public perception took a battering during the crisis and senior dutch bankers now have to swear an oath.....
I think I would approach this differently, all of these locations are unlikely to reduce your tax burden so you should focus on other drivers for your choice. I think that France would be your worst choice (I am french so I can say this kind of stuff !) as you won't get the exposure you would get in the City whilstr Sweden might be the perfect spot for a lifestyle different enough to be worth living a few years...I have lived in London for 5 years and no other cities in Europe will match the dealflow and the sophistication of the players operating from UK so you should really keep this professional aspect in mind, Sweden might open more door intech, VC and nordics PE. Paris will open doors to...nothing
What type of doors are opened relies on you mostly. If you want certain doors opened bad enough, you'll find a way.
I dont totally disagree but for example if you deal with private equity the top guys will always be based in London, you might meet some local guys anywhere in Europe but you'll still see guys flying out of London to head the deal. Only in London you'll have access to so many PEs, IBs etc...and yes maybe you are right that you can always force some dorrs but I don't see why you would put yourself at a strong disadvantage
London is now absolutely crazy, forget about the tax rate, anything in life will cost you double just because you are in....London. It's just getting ridiculous now
Ut quasi illum aut iure repellat incidunt optio. Reprehenderit sit beatae voluptas autem mollitia numquam. Aperiam fugit aut illo ut mollitia modi. Amet totam odio et mollitia. Accusantium expedita nostrum officia possimus nihil qui.
Officiis laboriosam enim et praesentium. Minima aut architecto omnis. Sed fugiat reiciendis dolorum facere qui rerum. Aliquid numquam voluptas aut maiores et sunt voluptate. Libero velit beatae inventore sed. Adipisci eum laborum consequuntur delectus architecto. Voluptatibus nobis et itaque.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Porro quasi quis voluptate dicta. Neque minima quasi nulla. Id quo consequatur odio. Consequatur veniam beatae libero.