Hi guys,
I'm currently breaking in IB in Russia. What are your thoughts on recruiting, work, top places to be, and the general ideas on what is it like to be an invesment banker in that part of the world?
I don't know whether there are many of Russians here, but the industry is growing, and the opportunity is out there!
| +253 | CVP 2025 Summer Analyst Class Is A JOKE | 118 | 12m | |
| +100 | The "Not So Obvious" things that get you a return offer? | 10 | 14h | |
| +93 | PJT Best EB in the next 5 years? | 46 | 13h | |
| +57 | Ex-JP Morgan analyst awarded $35M decade after NYC building’s glass door suddenly shattered on her | 15 | 23h | |
| +35 | Georgetown Placement for 2024 and 2025 | 20 | 20h | |
| +32 | Best IB group on the Street | 14 | 12h | |
| +31 | Pros and Cons of the BB coverage groups | 16 | 4d | |
| +29 | How to deal with egotistical team? | 6 | 13h | |
| +26 | BIG FOUR ARE PARADISE | 4 | 12h | |
| +24 | Targetish LAC for 100k debt? | 14 | 6d |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
As a Russian... I'm not sure I'd ever go (back) there. The opportunities are there... but the risk/reward may not be worth it. As for the top places to be - anywhere on Putin's payroll is probably a good bet. ;) Base salaries may be roughly average, but bonuses and bribes should probably bring it up to very attractive standards.
In all seriousness though - I imagine salaries are fairly sizeable (even by Moscow standards), but that they'd be looking for foreign-trained (prior banking experience in London/US) professionals at the major banks.
From what I hear, global banks do much of the M&A activity there, with nominal "participation" (read: a cut) by the state banks.
This is conjecture and hearsay though - so take it all with a grain of salt.
Note: If you're not Russian (or Eastern European), it may be difficult to get a grasp on the level of corruption and back-alley dealing. Very little happens through "official" channels without a back-alley handshake. You may have to seriously evaluate your moral and ethical standards - even at the global banks.
Would someone from New York be able to spend a year in Moscow at their bank (before returning to New York) if they only speak minimal Russian? Or is total fluency required. I just ask as you mentioned how they seek people form NY/LDN
They mean Russians/those from the Caucasus who studied abroad (US/EU/UK) then worked in IB in those countries. Doubtful you'd be able to work there without at least very solid Russian if not native level.
As a fellow Russian, I'm considering going back now :)
Thanks for the input!
In soviet Russia, car drives you!
there is like a mass exodus of Russians, because of Putin's election.
pretty sure they have the right idea.
febreeze, there was and there is mass exodus, that is definitely true. I'm thinking on the contrary - coming back may be a good idea now.
Russian I-Banks (Originally Posted: 11/23/2012)
Hey y'all. Wondering if any of you have knowledge or opinions on Ibanking in Russia. I know VTB and Sberbank are the two major players, but I was wondering where the others fall into line, and how they compare to western Ibanks that are in Russia (DB,GS, CS, etc)
For example, places like Troika Dialog, Renaissance Capital, Aton Capital, Alfa Bank.
Thanks.
Sberbank bought Troika Dialog last year.
any thoughts on the others?
hey First of all, which positions and what department are we talking about? VTB Cap and sber (ex troika) are pretty strong due to relationships with government. For IBD, I think BB > VTB capital > Sber (troika) > Renaissance >>>>>>>> aton, alfa, taiga...
equity research in particular.. so aton, alfa, etc are very weak generally?
Equity research in particular.
Vtb and Sber pay better than BBs for the right people
I know that the BBs like GS, CS, JP do their Russia coverage out of the London office so I doubt they have too many bankers (or positions for that matter) on the ground in a regional Russian office.
2011 Russian M&A League Table by # Deals, US$mm value 1 Troika Dialog Group 12,307 (12) 2 VTB Capital 14,840 (11) 3 Renaissance Capital 9,009 (10) 4 Gazprombank 5,981 (9) 5 Deutsche Bank 7,306 (8) 6 Credit Suisse 9,959 (7) 7 Ernst & Young 178 (6) 8 PwC 127 (6) 9 Morgan Stanley 14,487 (5) 10 JPMorgan 5,566 (5) 11 UniCredit Group 3,807 (4) 12 UBS Investment Bank 2,710 (4) 13 Rothschild 2,589 (4) 14 Citigroup 1,996 (4) 15 Barclays Capital 369 (4)
Thanks. But is M&A activity a good measure of ibanks power in Russia? I heard M&A activity wasn't really emphisized in Russia, but could be wrong.
In soviet Russia, bank robs you... oh wait...
AM/IB in Russia (Originally Posted: 03/29/2013)
Comrades I am calling for advice
I am speaking Russian, graduating soon with Finance degree from a Canadian University (semi-target) with average grades. I am currently working at the small investment fund (equity, bottom-up).
I was wondering whether there are any opportunities in Russia for a guy like me. I am particularly interested in bottom-up equity analysis, but open minded at the same time.
Thoughts, firms, names, what is the general environment right now, personal experience, else? Thanks!
You better like drinking Vodka.
ready to sacrifice my leaver lol
Most people get in after working in UK for a bit, or you could always move there and look for jobs. Rent alone will set you back 2k a month. I still hear its the wild west out there.
[quote=karypto]Most people get in after working in UK for a bit, or you could always move there and look for jobs. Rent alone will set you back 2k a month. I still hear its the wild west out there.[/quote
Thanks karypto that helps, I was wondering did you have experience there or know someone?
If you have linked in, look at people in the firms you are interested in. AM by a Russian firm is a joke, look where people put their money. Offshore. So it doesn't get stolen. Idiot.
IB is controlled by VtB and Renessaince Capotal. Everyone else there is loosing money. Credit Suisse pulled out, the government said you need to be a legal entity in Russia and obey its laws. No more satellite offices. Read google. Do some research online. Idiot.
Before the MS starts flying, the only Russian kid I know says idiot all the time to his Russian friends. I picked it up haha. Cause them Russians try to be tough.
Listen man, do what you will but the shit is crazy ... I researched it. Really wanted to make the jump. Think before you leap, be a clever Russian. Stay in Canada.
I see, thanks
I know about AM, the same thing is in my country. People keep money offshore cause the money are not legal. I still asked cause I just heard that because of the situation in Cyprus, Russia has plans to bring all offshore money in-house, kinda like in-house offshore somewhere near Vladivostok. (info might be scam btw).
What was that book, about a guy who went started a group investing in Russia right after the collapse of the Soviet Union - they made a ton of money, then started to catch heat. One of the lawyers ended up just disappearing, and the "government" raided the entire office. I think it had something to do with Gazprom...
I-Banking in Russia - Found this (Originally Posted: 10/29/2006)
I found this...
http://dom.bankir.ru/showthread.php?t=60843
I don't know about bakning per se, but I think the pay is much less. i.e. my dad's friend is very high in an IT department at some major russian bank, and his pay is 2000 per month.
When my family left Russia, my mom was making 400 bucks per month, and it was considered lower upper class. And no this wasn't some small town, this was Moscow.
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD...follow the advice at your own risk
Current pay in Moscow for IBD at major banks is on par with US and UK; In many cases its actually higher depending on the firm and how established it is in Russia. Bonuses this year in Moscow were MUCH higher on avg then in London.
I've heard that some of the Russian IBanks (eg Renaissance Capital, Troika Dialog, Alfa, MDM) have been poaching big time from the global IBanks like Citigroup and Merrills, offering obscene pay packets including bonus guarantees etc...
I'm just trying to find the link where I read the article...
http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/NEWS_ITEM/newsItemId-8066
...something like "junior bankers (not sure what they meant by this) could expect bonuses of up to $800,000USD"
Makes the sort of numbers we are used to at "junior levels" pale into insignificance really.
Still trying to find this link, but it may have been taken down if it was proven to be a load of bollocks.
Maybe I should learn Russian then. Kak dela? Harasho! Spasiba
Yeah, there was an article in russian Newsweek (can't find it right now) saying that Russian Banks are poaching talent from the Western Banks. While Renaissance Capital and Troika Dialog are styled after the Western Banks and have many Europeans and Americans in their ranks, it's the Russian commercial banks trying to build their i-banking business recruiting from the Western companies. For example, I remember reading that KreditTrust Bank hired one of the CS bankers and gave him a $600k base and a guaranteed bonus of at least a $1 million. Despite the recent shootings things have more or less stabilized in the Russian banking business. Before I-banking was not a big market in Russia due to privatization, criminal interactions and market conditions. Now that Russia has a better established banking system, better financial markets and exchanges, and inflow of foreign investments, I-banks and financial services companies will flourish. I would love to go back to Russia to work in I-banking, especially considering the need for Western business, especially banking, talent. As of now, UBS, CS, JPM, MS, GS and Citigroup have their offices in Moscow. Morgan Stanley, in fact, already managed to get into a conflict with the Ministry of Finance, division for Regulation of Financial Markets. Also an interesting sidenote, for the Rosneft IPO, almost every known i-bank was one of the arrangers, with the behemoth Sberbank being the lead underwriter.
And Moscow is the costliest city to live in according to the 2006 cost of living survey. Take it with a grain of salt obviously.
That survey was done by UBS and was not done in the most appropriate way. moscow is cheaper then London
Also, the Neo-Nazis keep the streets clean in Russia. I think Russia is going to go fascist pretty soon, I love how the BBC and all the liberal fags talk non stop about how racist Russia is.
http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/headlines/browder09.html
awesome story.
I-Banking in Russia - Looking for any info (Originally Posted: 07/25/2007)
What is the market like for investment bankers over in Russia? Also...Are any of the BBs involved in Russia right now or would you have to go with some Russian firm?
I'm really just looking for any info on investment banking in Russia.
You couldn't pay me enough money to go to that country.
Just saying...
That's understandable, however I don't really feel that way. Russia seems like one of the last frontiers with all the oil they've got. If they can clear up some of that corruption and become more appealing to investors. But I guess I really have no clue.
That's a big "IF". If there's one country with serious political issues, it's Russia. It's saying something when most of my friends are willing to take up cases in the Middle-East rather than Russia (despite superb hotel rooms in Moscow, great perks etc.)
It's not just the political climate though. The country is in social limbo as well. Rampant alcoholism, depressed citizenry, declining population, rampant xenophobia and racism, violence, corruption at all levels.
I guess it's hard to be bullish on a country with those characteristics, no matter the vast resources.
Maybe I am just being pessimistic. I think I've derailed your thread a bit. Sorry.
Scary place is some bankers are being assassinated.
^^^All that, and by the time Russia actualizes its oil potential, we'll all be riding on solar power and ethanol!
WAVE OF THE FUTURE!
Isn't Putin essentially fast-tracking communism, or at least fascism, over there?
I don't know but some of this stuff is making me rethink working in Russia, hey but who knows I've got awhile before I have to worry about where I'll be working. Thanks for all the insight guys.
With an open mind like yours you are going to go really far buddy.
On an other note, Russia has money and brainpower. Moscow is the most expensive city to live in. If you think about liar's poker and how money was made instantanenously, that is exactly what Russia is like now. Somebody really close to me is moving to Russia in the fall to do corporate law M&A, he is getting paid ridiculous amounts of money.
Where as for "Putin = fasism" or other bull, you guys keep thinking that. You'll be sorry not to have hoped onto "Russia's stock" when it was low.
To the OP, there are plenty of BBs in Russia. The biggest quantities of billionaires live in Moscow. There is money flowing like coca cola in a fat kids tummy.
You don't start off in Russia though, you need to start in the UK or the US, and then transfer to Russia. If you start of as an analyst in Russia you won't get paid much.
And middle east safer to do business then in Russia? Pleeeeeeeaze.
And yea there are some risk, and some criminality in Russia. You have alcoholics there as well, just like you have some alcoholics in every campus in the US. But just like anywhere else, it's not the alcoholics who are succesful. Every country has its problems, and Russia has a lot, but they are not as big as some of the people on this board makes them to be.
You'll be surprised but on the after-tax basis analyst get paid pretty much what London analysts get. I agree that London or NY will give you a much stronger technical base. However, analysts in Russia get exposed to clients extremely early in their careers. This is something monkeys in NY/London could only dream of. On top of that, the career progression can be much faster.
Those who get poached from other institutions may expect to get paid really handsomely. However, this frenzy is slowly subsiding, I hear.
Agree with Disjoint, though, that the biggest perks go to senior people who go to Moscow from London/NY. I don't see, though, how a Western banker - that is to say not a Russian national and with a mentality a la "dan bush is a faggot" - can perform well over there.
Make no mistake, the analysts in Moscow are extremely bright individuals, and with real-world experience that will make their Western counterparts look like immature school kids.
P.S. I've never seen so many luxury cars, e.g. Jaguars, Bentleys, Infinities, let alone the poshest BMWs, Mercedeces, etc., anywhere else. However, the general standard of living is definitely lower in Moscow than in the West.
What do you guys think about learning Russian if you are going to be over there? Most everywhere there are people that speak English, it could however be very beneficial, but how necessary?
No one is speaking English among themselves, so you don't want to be sitting around not knowing what's going on.
In soviet Russian I-bank...MODEL builds YOU!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAA....dude I'm still laughing about this and it's been like 6 hours...wow
^^ ha ha
Contrary to what most of these douchebags are saying. Investment Banking in Russia right now is the highest paying analyst job in the world. Gazprom has taken the lead in diving into capital markets. The potential over there is insane, watch out for big m&a in the next 5 years. If you're not russian/speak russian, you can't work there. i have a friend at CS london, whose russian originally. she's been sent to russia all summer on deals, so that should give you a hint about the market there.
danbush, very mature..idiot.
I'd second everything that Disjoin said and add the following:
So would some of the BB's who are geting involved in Russia would like to see on a resume that someone is proficient in Russian? How much would that set me apart, or is pretty much anyone going into Ib decent in a second language?
Speaking Russian is a huge asset. Friends of mine in London who speak russian, polish, turkish and have a good education are being given great opportunities these days because of business volumes over there and the scarcity of their skills. Quite a few analysts in london speak foreign languages, but mainly western european ones.
There should be good opportunities to "step up" too since the senior guys on deals don't always speak the local language.
To previous posts, Russian business used to be chaos, with rival businessmen using their militias (no joke) to raket locals and murder rivals. These days, now that the oligarchs have emerged there's more stability and they're raising billions in capital in London.
Nowadays, Russia plays off asian growth and european demand with their natural resources and raw materials... Don't they have the largest gas reserves in the world through Gazprom, the quoted company with the largest oil reserves in Lukoil, the largest aluminium company in Rusal (check out the upcoming london full listing), not to forget Rosneft and the others. Smart money knows there's huge banking potential there. My bank's actively looking for native Russians...
-
What bank are you with?
Quoting fortune in their August article on New York vs. London: "AIM exchange ... has moved agressively to capture listings from firms in Russia and other former Soviet republics. About 17% of London's IPO volume last year came from the flotation of Rosneft, a Russian oil company that became the country's biggest by acquiring the assets of Yukos, a private-sector rival driven out of business by the Kremlin"
MONEY screams in Russia everywhere! MONEY! I thank my mother for having sent me to Russian school every wednesday when I was a kid. At least those excrutiating hours spent in class will be of some use to get an I-banking job in the City :-p
I want to work now! No, really. I want those 100+ hours/week.
Russian's a realy tough language to learn... Bare in mind too that part of speaking russian for business is being able to down large quantities of vodka (and visiting brothels). Business over there isn't for lightweights!
IBGuy, I'd rather not give out any clues as to who I am. Suffice to say that interest in Russian speaking IBers is widespread. I hear this from contacts at various BBs, top boutiques and other "european banks".
No problem. Yeah, a lot of banks are interested to poach someone but mostly someone senior :-D
Downing large quantities of vodka and visiting brothels are not as widespread, I'm afraid. These things happen a lot in Europe as well, as I'm sure you know.
RUSSIA!!! (Originally Posted: 05/16/2007)
Anyone know about IBankin job opportunities in Russia with a prestigious U.S company after college? Or maybe as an internship
Thx
This story has more to it, google Magnitsky case. Sad stuff
Check out their russian websites
Where
You aren't cut out for it, just give up.
I'm kidding, check the russian version of the websites, typically ending in .ru
just added .ru to goldman and it just links back to their site. talk about web address monopoly lol.
Some top Russian firms:
TroikaDialog Rennaissance Capital Hermitage Capital
Deutsche has a big presence, partially through UFG UBS is there
Raiffesen Bank is another big one
Tempore quasi iste molestias culpa. Culpa odio veniam temporibus. Et totam aut recusandae totam ratione et. Numquam tempora quidem provident dolores impedit omnis qui. Non iure et ea et delectus aspernatur molestias. Quo expedita illo est rem nihil.
Omnis dolorem voluptatum nesciunt adipisci unde. Nihil similique consequuntur assumenda sequi a aperiam. Est itaque sequi commodi ut mollitia incidunt. Id nihil quia quis et est. Quos deleniti nihil et iste amet esse. Expedita qui aperiam ullam est qui non et. Culpa quia in voluptates sapiente.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Exercitationem possimus nam rem quis voluptates mollitia facere. Fugiat doloremque veniam sed sequi autem ipsum atque. Aut eaque dolorum fuga explicabo. Pariatur eaque quidem consectetur facilis optio rerum ut. Distinctio rerum dicta aut maxime ut. Pariatur commodi aut totam beatae adipisci.
Illum praesentium et in laborum dolorem tempora omnis. Eos voluptatem ipsum reprehenderit voluptate dolorum asperiores quasi.
Nam voluptate quo pariatur autem et illo sed. Provident ea aut perspiciatis tenetur ut. Nobis hic aliquam nostrum sit aliquid minus explicabo consectetur.
Vitae doloremque aliquid odit nihil iusto exercitationem numquam. In veniam odio in adipisci tempora. Occaecati itaque dolor incidunt blanditiis cumque eius. Dignissimos eligendi omnis mollitia est ut consequuntur ut. Rerum saepe in dolorum et.
Voluptatem voluptates repellendus est laboriosam dolorem hic aut. Quia ut qui quasi aut. Ut totam quaerat alias aut. Eum quis vel reprehenderit repudiandae quidem facere officiis quia.
Iste est voluptatem aut unde in. Ipsum tenetur rem aperiam consectetur quod. Iste sit ut excepturi enim. Incidunt non alias quis sed ad omnis porro voluptas.
Inventore est qui tempora eius quasi et. Aut quam atque consequatur ipsam porro iste. Rem voluptas facere quasi sint enim.
Molestiae est facilis in dolorem et est. Quia quas aliquid fuga. Eos labore culpa exercitationem. Voluptatem sapiente distinctio ipsa vitae est ex.
Excepturi reiciendis non placeat qui adipisci sit rem. Aut velit beatae est voluptas omnis et facilis earum. Ut earum quibusdam dolor iusto qui sit aspernatur.
Aliquam ducimus enim dolores officiis quia. Et molestiae id est omnis culpa. Repellat sed dignissimos perferendis ullam molestiae cupiditate aut. Temporibus nemo ea quisquam dolorum consequuntur nemo doloribus. Quis unde et reiciendis et sapiente. In delectus qui accusamus modi. Optio fugit possimus aperiam molestiae natus.