Is Adderall cheating?
A few weeks ago one of my co-workers admitted that he and everyone he knew at his elite private college (target school) used Adderall religiously to study and prepare for tests. A bunch of people from his school are my co-workers so I asked them about their experience--all the same. All of them used Adderall for much of their college tenure. I didn't think it was that big of a deal until my friend spiked my drink yesterday morning with Vyvanese (the newer form of Adderall) without my knowledge. For 2-3 hours I was hyperfocused and finished more work than I usually do in a day--all he put in was something like 1/8 of a pill crushed up into liquid form.
I legitimately have ADHD but refuse to use the drugs because of the side effects (depression, ED, weight loss then gain, etc.). If I had used this in college I'd basically have been a Rhodes Scholar. In this tough recruiting and economic environment, these kids from this target school all landed great jobs, more or less because they used drugs throughout college to give themselves an edge.
What are the thoughts on this? I see it like steroids in baseball--steroids are banned because if not it would pressure non-users to start using in order to stay competitive; or in other words, it would force people to risk their health in order to play the sport. I wasn't willing to risk the side effects of long-term use of these drugs while obviously many of my peers were willing to. Thoughts?
I don't consider it very ethical, but also wouldn't go so far as to say that it's "cheating" either.
I agree that it's not cheating per se since it's not banned by schools. Although I would think honor codes at schools like UVa would probably mention or infer something along the lines that prescription substances shouldn't be used for advantage. Maybe not.
Distributing / possessing controlled substances (adderall) without a prescription is illegal, so you'd be in violation of any American school's honor code. Then again, so is consuming alcohol if you're a minor, so that really depends how you want to view it ethically. The effects of adderall on test performance are pretty ambiguous (can try to find the research if you want me to), so I wouldn't consider it cheating, mostly because a) I think ADHD is largely a croc of shit and b) anyone willing to schedule a doctor's visit can get a prescription. It really is that easy
So, there are studies that compared how students performed on the same tests with and without adderall under the same conditions? How does that work?
Let's not beat around the bush. If you take it you are at an advantage against other people, unless you actually have a severe case of ADHD.
I am not sure about the US, but in Europe this isn't easy to get at all. Should tell you something.
Yeah, I mean I was drugged without my knowledge and my performance was not muddied by the placebo effect--I was crazy productive. Productive to the point that I mentioned to my friend how crazy productive I was despite not sleeping the night before (I crashed at his house). That's when he admitted he drugged me.
Yes, those studies exist. I'm not going to bother but if you do some research I'm sure you can find said reports. The first I heard of this was a study done by my undergrad school.
The truth is, the kids who do well in school would do well in school regardless of drug use. No one is at a top school or highly selective firm because they took adderrall while the rest of his/her peers didn't. If you told me half the CFA candidates (my competitors) were using aderrall, I wouldn't care because from personal experience, nobody actually learns better on adderall; you just read/write faster, and are stimulated in such a way that studying almost feels 'good.' It ain't hard to write ten pages when you feel like adrenaline was just injected into your eyeballs. In my opinion, the only people who are an exception to that rule are, in fact, the ones with learning disabilities that need drugs to function in the classroom.
only if you get caught...oh, wait - no one tests for this. problem solved.
Students who get good grades and use Adderall (w/o prescription) would get roughly similar grades if they didn't use it. It is not analogous to PEDs in sports. It's more of a placebo effect/source of energy than anything. It puts you at no more of an advantage than binging on energy drinks.
No, I don't think it is/should be considered cheating. Make that shit legal. Anyone who wants to be more productive can take it. I mean, it's essentially that way now.
If someone considers adderall cheating, might as well say the same about nootropics. And really, how wouldn't multivitamins, vitamin C supplements, etc be considered cheating? I think the whole debate is stupid, if someone wants to put something in their body, go for it.
To me the issue is side effects, which is why it's prescription only. Multivitamins and vitamin C supplements don't have material harmful side effects. If my school peer or co-worker is taking non-prescribed prescription drugs then I have to take those drugs in order to compete, which means in order to keep pace with my peers I need to risk my own health (not my life, but my health).
I don't believe for a second that "your buddy drugged you". If he did, then you have weird friends/coworkers. Like, really weird.
I actually believe him. Have you read his posts?
You can believe whatever you want. He didn't drug me with a roofie or heroin or ecstasy--he's a medical student who gave me Vyvanese (his prescribed ADHD medicine) because I didn't sleep the entire night while at his apartment; I was going to work on 0 minutes of sleep. Whether or not you believe that is pretty much irrelevant to me.
These side effects really that bad? I wanna juice.
Varies by the person. I would say the most common are dry mouth, grinding teeth, significantly reduced appetite, shrinkage (yes that kind), insomnia, heart palpitations, stomach discomfort and a few others. Some people exhibit all, some or none of these.
Amphetamine salts also affect dopamine levels in your brain, which I would imagine could exacerbate pre-existing mental health issues.
Full disclosure: I am not a doctor or trained medical professional. This does not constitute medical advice.
Shrinkage of "that kind"? Forget about it, I'll go natural ;)
How is it cheating? Its not like you can't get it from a doctor.
So like low grade blow.
Hmmm. I am rather insane. This shit might not be good. IMO, I think most of the ADHD is stemming from not being interested in what you are doing or learning. I'd love to try this shit though. What about Provigel (sp?).
I've never done blow, but that is the most common comparison I have seen. The euphoria is supposed to be similar, side effects slightly less, and obviously a different method of ingestion.
Provigil is used more for staying awake - it doesn't have the euphoria commonly associated with amphetamines, but allows users to stay up and stay alert for long periods of time. I'm sure there are some productivity benefits as well. I don't think Provigil is common in the US, but maybe moreso in Europe?
From what my friends have told me...
Provigil ( Modafinil) hast the same effect as add and rit for focus without 90% of the side effects. Much easier to get, too.
It's like blow without paranoia or need to do more. Many non-perscribed users experience increase in focus, memorization, energy, & retention. @duffmt6 did a good job listing the side effects. I have read some studies that Adderall only really increased the users need to clean their rooms and made it hard for them to study. But I think there must be some positives to taking the drug when not diagnosed with ADD or ADHD. There are also very large positives when taking the drug when diagnosed with ADD/ADHD etc.
OP, I'm pretty sure thats a federal offense for someone, a co-worker, to drug you with a non-perscribed controlled substance. Creepy.
Kind of like low-grade cocaine (whether you're talking adderal or vyvanse). Not nearly as intense, lasts a lot longer.
It's not bad, but it's not good. If you don't need it, I wouldn't take it regularly. It takes a while to turn into an addicted, so if you need a boost here and there, it won't kill you (just start with less, work your way up, and make sure you eat when you take it - last thing you want is a cracked out adderall experience. You will get nothing done).
Provigel (modafinil) is closer to nootropics. That area I don't know enough about to really comment on.
Basically. Honestly it more or less focuses you on whatever you choose to fix your mind on, whatever that may be...not quite the euphoria you might get on coke however. My buddy and I were just discussing Provigel...hadn't heard of it before...sounds very interesting. Heard that its better than anything else out there, might have to check it out.
First off, your friend really drugged you? lol. I shouldn't laugh, but that is kinda funny yet screwed up.
Aderrall is something that has taken on almost a mythical status. People literally put their kids on it from middle school (even younger) and up. So realistically, kids have been cheating since before they even know what it is. The bigger problem is whether ADHD is a real or contrived issue. I'm 100% certain there are people out there who truly have a hard time concentrating naturally and this stuff helps correct that. For the other 99.99% of of the people out there taking it they probably either have a contrived attention problem, are young children who are supposed to be freaking hyper and all over the place or simply want it to help them exhibit self control where they cannot.
I truly think the whole argument comes down to whether you believe that ADD or ADHD is an actual disease. I can make an arugment, not necessarily a good one, that if someone who freaks out in stressful situations gets prescribed Valium for 'panic attacks' they are also cheating on tests. Who is to say whether it is contrived in their mind or an actual issue they have. The line isn't really that clear. I think medicine and technology is becoming so increasingly able to make us faster, stronger, and smarter than we used to be which is creating quite a few challenges in every facet of life.
if you actually believe any of this, especially that hilarious shit about being a Rhodes Scholar, your jealousy and delusion are truly out of this world. no one got a fucking job because of using amphetamines to cram for tests the night before, dear god
What does cheating mean anyway? Who gives a shit? Do whatever you want. You don't owe anybody anything in this life.
Also, it's super easy to get a script for this shit. I went to a shrink to get Xanax and Vyvanse. Just Google the symptoms. You don't need to have a condition to use tools available to us in society.
What do you use Xanax for? Just curious because I've been considering it myself.
Cure a hangover, alleviate boredom on flights and such, stuff like that You can use it recreationally obviously, but I'm pretty over that.
I can also use this stuff to plow through busy work. At mid-low doses, it makes me an OCD perfectionist who is totally cool formatting shit for 4 hours or cleaning my kitchen. I just might not remember doing it, but it will get done.
You can take a bit before you go out to make one drink feel like 3. Just be very careful. You'll do a bunch of dumb shit and forget literally all of it if you overdo it. You stop caring about literally everything after a certain tipping point.
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Why would you do that to your body? I mean, here and there in a pinch but it's like juicing....there's always going to be some kind of problem later on. If someone gets an advantage straight out of the gate, I'll pass them later on in life because my brain hasen't turned to chemical mush
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Only took it once and didn't sleep for two days. Didn't like that trade off, especially during spring season early sessions.
The side effects are Parkinson's disease.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110220193013.htm
I have friends with ADD on Adderall who are trying to taper off of it because of Parkinson's fears.
My secret is green tea (mostly for caffeine), exercise, and staying away from the computer or internet when I am trying to get something done that does not involve the internet.
Stating it like that is downright non-sense.
First of all I don't see any mention of a standard deviation regarding the heightened risk, nor does it state clearly whether the "60%" was controlled for confounders. It may very well be that people who are prescribed medication suffer from many other causes of Parkinson's disease. Perhaps there is even a direct link between attention disorders and Parkinson's disease? Not that I'm suggesting any of these links, but statements like the one in the article require some statistical analysis more than just churning out numbers. The fact that "There was no increased risk found for those people who used drugs for weight loss." is especially interesting in that light.
Natural is always better ;)
Oh its this post again. Haven't seen you in 6 months. How you been man? Good, cool. See you in 6 months bro.
As someone who is prescribed out of legitimate need, I kind-of think that it's cheating, but I also think people are really just shooting themselves in the foot.
Studying in college I get, but as far as work goes, I think you'll do yourself more harm than good if you don't actually need the medicine.
a - people who don't need it often find that they need more and more for it to work to the level when they first tried it and I've heard a few say that they now can't focus without it -- not sure if this is just psychological or not.
b - and more importantly, it can really affect your social skills. a lot of people that don't need the drug and take it look and feel like they are on a drug. if you want to be a model monkey for the rest of your life, go for it, but if your looking to climb to social/work ladder taking it a lot will probably hinder you
Stims make me hella sociable. I'll be outside of the library chain smoking, striking up conversations with anybody in sight at 4am during finals week instead of studying inside.
I agree that it can help with that kind of situation, or at a bar type social, but not really the kind you want to go walk to lunch with an MD on it. I've learned to manage, but was annoying to deal with at first. For me at least.
I agree with your premise that it's bad to use if not prescribed - hell, I think it's probably bad for you regardless, but that's another story.
The fact is, your brain chemistry is the main determinant of how pharmaceuticals or any substance will affect you. Smoking weed calms some peoples' nerves and helps them sleep, while the same quantity will cause others to have panic attacks and paranoia. Some people can booze until the sun comes up and still keep their wits about them, while others of the same stature and tolerance are sloppy and borderline blacked after three beers. Everyone's got that friend who turns into Mr. Hyde before they've left the pregame. It's the same with adderall, and those I know that "need it" say it actually calms them down, as opposed to turning them into the depraved, cracked out lunatics you'll find in the library at 5 am during finals week.
Many people here discuss about whether Adderall/any specific substance really HAS long- or short-term performance-enhancing effects. I would second that it doesn't really matter for the more underlying question: should it be legal to take performance-enhancing drugs with significant effects on the body without any diagnosed need for them? Let's face it, researchers are moving closer and closer towards understanding the human brain every day, and one day drugs that will give you more of an edge than any less-invasive stimulans (exercise, meditation,...) can will exist.
Personally, I think I would refrain from using such substances for private reasons (I dislike all kinds of drug use for other than medical reasons, I don't even drink coffee and never needed it even when I was working all-nighters), but I'm perfectly fine with other people doing to their bodies whatever they like. I could always outperform my peers who would do all sorts of stuff with a disciplined lifestyle and strong self-determination. Now I would deem it unfair if such people were placed at a significant advantage that I cannot compensate however rigid my living.
Adderall wore off can't even type out a decent rebuttal lol
spermicide is cheating
So according to most people here caffeine is cheating too and should be banned. When did Wall Street get so lame? I wish it'd be like the 80's where traders could do blow off their desk
This guy just won the thread
This
Never done it myself because I don't want to risk side effects or become psychologically dependent on it, but if others want to do it and accept the consequences, it doesn't matter to me. Definitely don't need it to get shit done though.
Modafinil
Adderall is so 5 years ago haha
Finally someone else mentions it ;)
WHAT ABOUT BLOW?? IF I DO BLOW IS THAT CHEATING ?!??
Does anybody know how prevalent adderrall is in the UK, considering GPs don't prescribe it over here? Also what type of friend spikes your drink...
I love the use of the term cheating, as if this is a giant competition that everyone is keeping score. Just focus on yourself.
On the topic of adderall: I'm about as non ADD as one can get, so I feel like I have a pretty good baseline for the cheating use of adderall. I use it to study when my back is up against a wall. Don't notice any change in retention of information, just increased motivation and minor adrenalin induced euphoria. Gives me a nasty come down, which makes me believe that harder drugs and myself would not agree at all.
Never used it in a work environment, but judging off how much I love to talk to strangers while on it, I don't think it would in any way improve work performance.
tl;dr, I remember thinking the same thing the first time I took adderall to study. 'omg if i took this every day i would be at the top of my class at harvard'. No dice man, effects start dwindling pretty damn quickly.
Who knew Michael Bolton would come up with the best point ITT?
I prefer Mike.
If you legitimately have ADHD or ADD get a prescription. If you can get a prescription rather than buying it from some random then no its not cheating. Do these things make a difference? Perhaps yes, but if you can honestly work well without it then go for it. Find whatever works for you man. Don't just take it for the sake of taking it and become reliant on it. Take it if you really need the help.
Adderall can give you an advantage, but I would argue that it's fair. Everybody who takes it is facing the same choice: it helps you be productive, at the cost of your health and the risk of serious trouble if you get caught. You have that option - it's fine if you choose not to utilize it, but don't complain that it's unfair.
Adderall is one of the most fair advantages you can get. Compare it to other advantages: some people are born smarter, to richer parents, more charismatic, etc. Those are unfair advantages, they're random and you have no control over them. But Adderall? Everyone is given the same option with the same consequences, so I don't see how that's unfair.
I just think this position is transparently wrong. Your position then is that steroids should be legal in football and baseball, right? If that's the case then you've got an entire generation of players who will be pressured into risking their health so that they can achieve in a sport. I'm certain that the reason everyone at this college is/was using non-prescribed prescription stimulants is because so many others were doing it--with the competition for grades being so intense (because of job and academic positions) then if everyone else (or most others) is using these drugs then a person not using them will be at a disadvantage. I didn't know anyone at my school using these stimulants to get ahead (I'm sure some were); therefore, there was no pressure to maintain an edge with drugs.
And as has been pointed out, to buy and sell and use non-prescribed narcotics is a violation of pretty much every honor code at every college/university in America, so it's cheating prima facia.
What the hell does "transparently wrong" mean, and how is that any different from just being wrong or obviously wrong?
Anyways, as somebody else pointed out, you're viewing this as a 'game' and that Adderall gives the 'players' an unfair advantage. If that is really how you're viewing this, then yes, Adderall gives the people who use it an unfair advantage because they are using it outside the 'rules'.
But this isn't a game, this is your life. Companies aren't trying to award a 'win' to the 'best players', that's not their goal. They want people who know what they're talking about and can do the job - people that take Adderall fit the bill.
Who cares. If you're not cheating, then you're not trying hard enough.
If you haven't done it, you can't really offer a sincere comment on its affects. I've done stronger than Adderall, and I can tell you it increases your focus a bit...and thats it. My tolerance has always been higher to things like that, just how I am it seems. But to call it cheating? Hardly. If you can't study, I guess that's kind of your own problem. You can get distracted on any drug, even ones that make you focus. Because, obviously, all it dose is enhance your brain activity in that way...it helps you to focus on whatever you're doing at the moment, and gives you a bit of energy. If you decide to go play COD for 4 hours instead of study Calc, you will do that, and not study at all. Adderall doesn't magically force you to do school work. Not at all.
Then why are these drugs so widely used among college students? My friend who is a medical student pretty much won't study without the aid of his drugs. The "proof" of the effectiveness is in its wide usage, and virtually everyone in this thread has tried or at one point used Adderall or some other similar form of drug as a study aid. To conclude it's not effective for improving studying and ultimately test grades defies reason.
And I'll point out that it's absolutely cheating--as has been mentioned, pretty much every honor code at every university would ban the usage of illegal or illegally obtained drugs for study aids. So you can't logically conclude that it's not cheating when it's illegal and a violation of the honor code.
Because college students like drugs? What else do you need? Sure you can do a lot (way more than you would ever be prescribed), and despite all the negative side effects, you might manage to sit in front of your books longer than you would otherwise. But I can tell you first hand that it honestly doesn't make much of a difference...the retention doesn't magically happen. Everyone thinks it will work..and it will give you the feeling that you're studying well. But you may or may not be. Wide usage is never proof of anything, ever. That is an extremely unscientific thing to say.
Honor codes usually cover cheating in the classroom...I'm not aware of a "drug" honor code at any school. Do schools ban drugs? Sure...but being on Adderall isn't cheating...I'm not sure where you're getting that idea. Some people do "need" it because they can't literally focus worth a shit...but most people just don't know how to study effectively.
Wow that thread took quite a sharp turn...
For everyone discussing whether this is cheating: Watch the movie "Bigger, Stronger, Faster". I know that not everyone likes or is involved in bodybuilding or strength sports, but for the sake of this discussion, the underlying idea the movie tries to convey is the important part. Everyone should take that to heart and then the discussions regarding cheating will wear off pretty quickly.
I'm gonna watch that later. Thanks for the recommendation.
You're welcome. Feel free to post or PM, I'm curious what you think.
Seriously, everyone taking Adderall- ADD or otherwise- should be contributing to the Parkinson's Disease Foundation. Parkinson's is a terrible way to go; why do anything that would increase your risk?
http://www.pdf.org/
There's only so much we can get out of our brains. If we try to get too much out of them using amphetamines, there is some risk that we're stealing from our future selves. And if traditional medicinal amphetamine use results in increased risk for Parkinson's, imagine what under-the-counter use means.
http://nypost.com/2014/01/04/adhd-does-not-exist/
To each his own.
It's whatever. I prefer to stay natural because side effects no matter how small they are will always come back to bite, whether its 1, 10, or 30 years down the road. Makes me feel good too haha. Never had an energy drink, never taken adderall.
but oh well if others take it, I'm not going to consider it cheating...just a choice. Have you seen the movie Limitless?
I used to be on Adderall, but stopped taking it in H.S. b/c I was worried I would become lifelong dependent on it. After I stopped taking it, I noticed how much of an impact it had on my heart rate (it is truly a cocaine-like effect), my metabolism (slowed) and my focus (definitely got worse).
Had I taken it through HS and college, I have no doubt that my GPA may have been .25-.5 higher. When I did take it in college for a few finals, I was noticeably more attentive with my studies.
At the end of the day, my ADD is certainly still noticeable (i.e. I should be correcting a model right now, but I find myself on WSO... at work, on a Saturday...). But, I feel I made the best decision for my body in the long run. I could see someone having a heart attack at a much earlier age with consistent use of adderall, particularly if you use other substances (i.e. alcohol, caffeine, etc.).
sweet dude, SB. its tough to stop after it helps so much, but most people don't pay attention to long term side effects...
no wonder there's so much sickness in the world... plenty of cancer cases come from long-term slow abuse.
I'm sure that if a school or teacher knew that a student was taking Adderall without a prescription it would be considered cheating and the student would likely be expelled. But, seriously what are the chances that a school or teacher would know: 1.) That someone is taking an ADHD drug. 2.) That they don't have a prescription to be taking it, and 3.) How would they even gather that information?
Unless schools are going to consider doing random drug testing on students during tests, they would never really know. Of course, even if they considered doing random drug tests on students, I'm sure that their parents would easily file a 4th amendment lawsuit and win. We are talking about privileged schools here after all.
So, as to whether it's cheating; it probably is. As to whether it would ever be caught as cheating; probably not.
I'll never get people who care if shit like this is cheating. This isn't a game, it is your life. If you need some help focusing and think this will help do it.
So much but hurt in this thread.
Adderall is methamphetamine.
Water is wet.
Thought it was important for people to know that Adderal was Meth.
Now be a good boy and go back on Excel.
Based on how it impacts sleep patterns, I feel that Adderall can't create a significant advantage in the long run. When I was taking a ton in college, it got to the point where my performance actually deteriorated because I was averaging like 15-20 hours of sleep a week.
Despite not being an adderall user, and not really having any interest in it, I don't see it as cheating in the least. Under the logic that adderall helps people focus and therefore should be illegal, it would also be illegal to come to work hungover in an effort to reduce stress on days with binary outcomes (central bank meetings and payrolls come to mind).
Also, the idea that allowing adderall use, implicitly or explicitly, would encourage non-users to begin using for the sake of being able to compete is complete bullshit and really doesn't merit further discussion. I have never heard anyone say "John Doe is using adderall and had a great day, maybe I should do it too!" or anything even slightly implying so. If someone finds themselves completely incapable of doing a good job at work without using a chemical compound similar to methamphetamine, it is your choice to either keep using or find a different job. Don't impose your personal beliefs about what is moral or immoral on others because then you aren't much better than HR.
Wait, it increases your metabolism also?
I have a bunch of addy every morning with breakfast then more in the afternoon if its going to be a long night in the office. Have been at this for a while and love it. Not trying to compete or cheat anyone, just trying to make my job a little easier for me. To each their own. If you want to go all natural and prove your super PPT formatting abilities 24/7 while trying to fake the appearance of being interested in your work, be my guest.
This thread reminds me of Paul Erdos (for those who don't know, the most prolific mathematician of all time):
"His colleague Alfréd Rényi said, "a mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems", and Erdős drank copious quantities. (This quotation is often attributed incorrectly to Erdős, but Erdős himself ascribed it to Rényi.) After 1971 he also took amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month. Erdős won the bet, but complained that during his abstinence mathematics had been set back by a month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper." After he won the bet, he promptly resumed his amphetamine use."
How Rampant Is Cheating (& does Adderall count as cheating?) (Originally Posted: 09/15/2012)
At an ethics class in my undergrad, we were once asked how many of us suspected or actually witnessed cheating in some form or another. A supermajority of kids had suspected peers of cheating, while about half of us claimed to have actually seen it. Hence the title of this post, dear monkeys--it's no longer a question of whether cheating goes on, but how much of it.
No doubt if we took a poll here on WSO we'd find the same thing--we've all been there. If you see a kid get up from a final exam seven or eight times with a smartphone, it isn't because he has a going problem. Is this good preparation for work?
I get a lot of times it's hairier than that--"this professor gives completely unfair exams, so I have to cheat." "I just need to do it for this exam so I can pass the course and get a job." "Everyone else is doing it, so I have to do it to stay competitive." "I'm not hurting anybody, so who cares?" Believe me, I've been in all of those situations and the temptation to cheat can be overpowering.
But here's the thing if you cheat to get a good grade/GPA: you still don't know the stuff, even though the grade says otherwise. That impossible professor won't really know how terrible his exams are ("Well this kid must have been prepared; wonder why everyone else bombed?"). And you'll be paying for the cheaters outside of school: the people who file false insurance claims, commit tax fraud, lie under oath in the courtroom, and (gasp!) capsize investment banks.
And it ain't just us students either--recently in Georgia there was an investigation on 178 teachers who fraudulently doctored state test scores to look better. They all got fired, but naturally the mainstream media wasn't interested because the fraud isn't Wall Street related. It can't be a good example for the kids seeing their teachers cook the books. Monkeys, it's gotta stop.
Now, if I was a public official of some kind and said any of that, I would get slapped with the "hypocrite" sticker in no time if I had anything that smacked of cheating on my resume. But here's the God's honest truth: in my entire academic career, I've never cheated. Not even once. I've done my share of wrongs, but cheating is thankfully not one of them.
"Hopeless" and "naive" were two of the most common words used by my friends to describe me in business school, and maybe you agree after reading the above (future posts). But the fact is, however much it happens both in school and in life, none of us need it. We're better than that, monkeys!
If the hopelessly naive In The Flesh could hang in there, you can definitely do it too. I promise you it's possible to have success without cheating.
should taking Adderall (when its not prescribed to you for the proper medical reasons) through college be considered cheating? does it give an unfair advantage to those who didnt "drug"? ive also heard stories of coke being taken in place of adderall for late night study sessions. That's over the line imo... no pun inteneded
I'm interested in what everyone thinks about the use of adderall also.
Personally, I don't think its cheating. Its just using all of the resources at your disposal to succeed. And anyone can get a prescription these days anyway.
In my 4 years of college, I've never taken addy before and I've never considered until a few days ago. I hadn't thought about how prevalent the usage was until I couldn't even count how many of my friends use it. Now that I think about it, I guess I would consider it a form of cheating; they stay up longer hours in focused study mode and I guess they absorb more than I do. With recruiting season going on, I've been getting overwhelmed with the meet&greets and classes/hw. However, despite all the stress and fatigue, I don't think I'll resort to adderall crosses fingers
See here: http://danariely.com/tag/cheating/
and here: http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_on_our_buggy_moral_code.html
Interesting stuff. I can't say I've cheated myself, but I can certainly see the temptation.
I may have cheated. I was a CS guy, and we often helped each other out on projects by helping each other find bugs or figure out what a compiler error was. This was technically against the rules, but it was invaluable, and was more like programming in the real world. We would often work in groups on homework as well. Personally, I don't think we cheated, but by the letter of the law so to speak, we did. Some guys did blatantly cheat by copying code from each other.
Thread serves as a way for OP to pat himself on the back. There's not even a legitimate question posed. Gives advice and encouragement, but no examples of cheating or what to avoid. Terrible OP.
On the adderall topic: all that needs to be said is taking it can never be categorized as cheating. Why? Because adderall does not give you the ability or information to succeed on a test (paper, project, etc.). Conversely, something like steroids would be considered cheating. Why? Because, in brief, it allows a professional athlete to heal quicker, which provides a laundry list of potential advantages vs. an athlete not taking steroids.
Fin.
adderall gives people the ability to concentrate and stay up for longer periods of time, thus providing an unfair advantage. the main reason people take steroids is because of the enormous testosterone boost, thus allowing people to bulk and get stronger faster relative to the same level of work of someone not on steroids. It does not make people bigger simply by taking it, but allows one to get stronger faster if they are willing to put in the time. Adderall doesn't teach you anything, rather gives you the tools to be able to retain more material faster for longer periods of time. Again--it provides the tools necessary to succeed far more than those not taking it.
Nice try though...
Has Adderall helped anyone here? Curious to know your pov.
I think Adderall as cheating could be argued either way. Ive talked to plenty of people who took it, or still take it, swear by it and said they know for sure they wouldnt have done as well in college without it. Use of Adderall in school could be a whole thread by itself.
Imo it is cheating, this comes from a guy that didnt even start drinking coffee til senior year and 100% stayed away from "performance enhancing drugs" in college, because 1. nobody ever dropped one in my hand, and 2. I was afraid I wouldnt ever want to study/work w/out being on it.
Adderrall is illegal in Argentina (where I live) and I know americans who sell it for approx $40 a 10mg pill, and apparently they say its a pretty big seller
.
Dude Ariely encouraged cheating in that class. We could take the final exam at any time and with whoever we wanted. The grades counted for nothing (although we didn't know it). If you didn't cheat it would be impossible considering the questions were near irrelevant to the course. I could care less about cheating, it doesn't really affect me. Yea, the curve may be better if they didn't cheat, but it's their loss. Who cares if an I-banker knows about Greco-Roman Art or even microeconomics? If anything the success of "cheaters" shows how flawed our education system is.
Tons of people take adderall
It's become a side-effect of our knee-jerk, soundbite, internet-inhibited culture
I stick with the Red Bull(s).
Adderall isn't cheating. Steroids are "performance enhancing" in that they make you physically stronger in activities where physical strength does matter.
When it comes to studying, physical strength, or endurance, or the ability to stay up late with or without drugs doesn't really matter. Its a mental game, both in terms of having the mental capacity to learn (the smarts) or the mental endurance to plan your time/stay up late (mental will power).
If I am born with a better brain (which I was, as well as that wonderful personality trait known as modesty), it doesn't mean I have a "performance enhancement". Equality only matters when it comes to access to opportunities, not in sheer ability or the ability to purchase adderall.
Adderall is performance enhancing as it makes you mentally stronger in activities where mental strength matters. I don't see how you could argue that anabolic steroids are a PED while Adderall is not.
From Wikipedia: (The subtitle is even performance enhancing use!)
If that isn't a performance enhancing drug than I don't know what is.
I come from an undergrad institution with a strict honor code. Cheating led to expulsion without exception. So I was never exposed to any of this prior to my graduate studies. A question that I personally find difficult is... if you see a cheating classmate, is it ok to ignore them, or should you do something? Just curious what you guys think.
mormon?
Military Academy
I had a test today. I was sitting down in front then when I finished I walked up and saw the whole upper tier of the classroom cheating. I was disguised, and will probably tell the teacher to have more supervision.
haha, you must not have very many friends. That's a douchey move, man.
what kind of disguises do you wear to class??
I'm just waiting for someone to come on here and say karma will eventually catch up to those cheaters. Haha.
Agreed but I wouldn't rat people out. Not my place to do so.Snitches get stitches where I come from.
Here's the thing the universities don't tell you: None of what you learn in university matters in the real world, the only thing that matters is keeping your grades high so you can get a great job. Do you think Teh Goldman Sachs cares that you know your stuff from your undergraduate ethics class? Nope.
Cheating in school is EXCELLENT preparation for the real world, where the only thing that matters is results. Do you think John D. Rockefeller or Andrew Carnegie played by the rules? Nope.
This thread is ridiculous.
I agree that the real world is very similar if not worse. But, I think there is a difference between business savvy, and straight up lying and cheating.
Also, what you learn in the Universities actually DO matter. DO you think the guys at GS, MS, and other banks are idiots? THey can sniff you out if youre ignorant, and then youre gone
All Adderall does is increase one's stamina and ability to concentrate. Your classes evaluate you on the basis of your understanding of the material. The purpose of your classes isn't to judge who is the best innate studier. If tests can be gamed by cramming, it suggests to me a failure in the means by which we test students, i.e. too much emphasis on rote memorization and not emphasis on synthesis.
Exactly. Adderall doesn't teach you how to understand or inculcate large amounts of data. To the idiot above who tried to tell me steroids don't make you bigger unless you lift - hrrr drrr, fantastic argument. We're using the premise in these arguments that if you take adderall you're going to study, and if you take steroids you're going to lift/train/whatever. You don't get added results from adderall, it can't help teach you. You help teach you.
However, steroid use will get you added results that you wouldn't otherwise get. To the same person, there are many types of steroids - not just ones that raise testosterone levels, big guy. As I noted, my post should have been the last - there's no legitimate argument or data that confirms adderall is cheating. It's not.
Oh boy....
(1) Adderall is performance enhancing. Consider the following: Person A and B both have the same intellectual ability (in every possible way), they come into a class with the same level of background knowledge, they each study 2 hours/day, they have the exact same ability to concentrate (without medication) while studying and they maintain the same the same level of concentration for each study session. Assume that there is one test at the end of the term and test is graded on a curve. Person A uses Adderall to study while Person B does not. No matter their respective scores, Person A has garnered an advantage which Person B does not have in that, while studying he was made (physically) more capable of concentrating on the material for which they were both responsible for mastering and, therefore, was able to better apprehend the material than Person B. Assuming that both Persons A and B do not have a learning disorder for which a doctor may rightfully prescribe Adderall, Person A garners an advantage that may be called "unfair".
Let's develop the idea a little further:
(2) "Simple As" stated that he just felt like the usage of Adderall was not unfair because "Its just using all of the resources at your disposal to succeed. And anyone can get a prescription these days anyway." To use a resource that is at your disposal does not constitute cheating as such. However, just as in athletics, there are resources that are rightfully at your disposal (in that their use is approved, negatively or positively, by the "rules of the game") and there are resources which cannot be said to be rightfully at your disposal (in that they are prohibited by the "rules of the game"). The usage of Adderall, where there is no prescription made by a competent medical professional who was not deceived in the evaluation process for the disbursement of the drug, is not sanctioned by the "rules of the game". This is true on two levels: (i.a.) Our general legality says it is illegal to use prescription drugs where they have not been prescribed to you, (i.b.) Even if you were prescribed the drug, if you willfully deceived the medical professional to obtain the prescription, previously made observation applies but in a modified way...I 'm sure that you can figure that one out, (ii.) The institution at which you are taking test does not allow the usage of performance enhancing drugs (for which you do not have a medical reason to use). Note that (ii.) does not have to be true for an individual's non-prescribed Adderall usage to be in violation of the rules of the game. If you don't believe that one (generally) has moral duty to obey the law, I may point you to some literature (such as http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/crito.html) for starters. In preparing for the test, Person B was subject to at least one level of regulation whereas Person A disregarded at least one level of regulation and therefore, given the restrictive nature to regulation, had a relative advantage on the test.
I could take this much further, but I've demonstrated clearly enough the nature of using Adderall to prepare for a test. I left out cases in which one might use Adderall DURING a test...I think that's a no-brainer.
Please excuse spelling punctuation, etc.... it's late and I'm tired.
Sincerely,
[quote=back_that_thang_up]Oh boy....
(1) Adderall is performance enhancing. Consider the following: Person A and B both have the same intellectual ability (in every possible way), they come into a class with the same level of background knowledge, they each study 2 hours/day, they have the exact same ability to concentrate (without medication) while studying and they maintain the same the same level of concentration for each study session. Assume that there is one test at the end of the term and test is graded on a curve. Person A uses Adderall to study while Person B does not. No matter their respective scores, Person A has garnered an advantage which Person B does not have in that, while studying he was made (physically) more capable of concentrating on the material for which they were both responsible for mastering and, therefore, was able to better apprehend the material than Person B. Assuming that both Persons A and B do not have a learning disorder for which a doctor may rightfully prescribe Adderall, Person A garners an advantage that may be called "unfair".
Let's develop the idea a little further:
(2) "Simple As" stated that he just felt like the usage of Adderall was not unfair because "Its just using all of the resources at your disposal to succeed. And anyone can get a prescription these days anyway." To use a resource that is at your disposal does not constitute cheating as such. However, just as in athletics, there are resources that are rightfully at your disposal (in that their use is approved, negatively or positively, by the "rules of the game") and there are resources which cannot be said to be rightfully at your disposal (in that they are prohibited by the "rules of the game"). The usage of Adderall, where there is no prescription made by a competent medical professional who was not deceived in the evaluation process for the disbursement of the drug, is not sanctioned by the "rules of the game". This is true on two levels: (i.a.) Our general legality says it is illegal to use prescription drugs where they have not been prescribed to you, (i.b.) Even if you were prescribed the drug, if you willfully deceived the medical professional to obtain the prescription, previously made observation applies but in a modified way...I 'm sure that you can figure that one out, (ii.) The institution at which you are taking test does not allow the usage of performance enhancing drugs (for which you do not have a medical reason to use). Note that (ii.) does not have to be true for an individual's non-prescribed Adderall usage to be in violation of the rules of the game. If you don't believe that one (generally) has moral duty to obey the law, I may point you to some literature (such as http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/crito.html) for starters. In preparing for the test, Person B was subject to at least one level of regulation whereas Person A disregarded at least one level of regulation and therefore, given the restrictive nature to regulation, had a relative advantage on the test.
I could take this much further, but I've demonstrated clearly enough the nature of using Adderall to prepare for a test. I left out cases in which one might use Adderall DURING a test...I think that's a no-brainer.
Please excuse spelling punctuation, etc.... it's late and I'm tired.
Sincerely,
]
Disagree with #1. If person A and B both end up studying the same amount for the exam their performance will be no different. Amphetamines might help person A take fewer rests and be more efficient with their study time, but it will not actually increase their performance on a stand alone basis. Additionally, amphetamines don't help you understand or comprehend information any differently- in fact there is evidence that they may suppress creativity. Just my $.02.
it's not cheating.
Right now you wonder how rampant cheating is.
When you work in a prime brokerage you will wonder how efficient you can get at it.
"Shit, the position's obviously gone up on Bloomberg, can you call the client and say that according to our internal models it's actually gone down and we need an extra 2m USD margin?"
In case you are wondering, yes the client knows what you are doing and yes the client hates you for it. The key is the subtle balance between "enough for my P&L but too little for him to take it to arbitration".
Is the consumption of coffee or red bull cheating? I mean it gives you an unfair advantage over people who don't take it and thus, fall asleep over the books late at night. Also should studying be considered cheating? Also an unfair advantage over people who dont do it...
@back_that_thang_up
You should not be allowed to post on the internet. You are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
I couldn't make it through your whole post because I had serious walloftext.jpg syndrome, but dude... no. What kind of awful rambling did you waste your time on? I wanted to claw my eyes out just skimming it. First, you don't "physically" concentrate, you mentally concentrate. Second, look at the huge jump you and everyone else is trying to make.
You contend: Ability to hyper-focus on material = ability to better comprehend material
What data can you point to as proof of this? Adderall isn't a smart pill. Focusing /=/ Learning. Learning = Learning. Your propensity to learn relates to your past experiences and abilities in life.
Also, using legality as consideration for cheating is wrong. Unless a University strictly prohibits something in their bylaws, legal v illegal does not matter. If it did, I would contend you're cheating every time you drive over the speed limit. You get an advantage because you spend less time in the car, and since it is illegal, you're cheating the test curve system. Quite a stupid sentiment, no? Of course, maybe you were saying something else but who has time to read that fucking novel you posted.
Maybe if you weren't popping 30mg adderalls all night you would be focusing on that test your cramming for rather than writing 1000 word essays on message boards. Oh wait, that can't happen on adderall right... or maybe its just another advantage.
Idiots.
I'm sorry did I use the word "cheating"? No...I don't believe that I did. I called the usage of Adderall, when not prescribed, an "unfair advantage." At least this idiot can understand that the exploitation of "unfair advantages" may not constitute "cheating". At least this idiot understands the difference between a necessary and sufficient condition. The same distinction applies to my comments about adhering to all "rules of the game."
I would also refrain from calling me stupid, not only because I'm likely smarter than you could ever hope to be (given my IQ), but because it's just a douchebag move. I mean, really? How immature are you? Because you disagree with something I posted on WSO you call me an "idiot"? What kind of manners did your mother teach you when you were a kid? Do you behave this way in person? If so, I pity you because you most likely have few friends - let me qualify that - you most likely have few friends who are worth the company. If you don't behave that way in person, I pity you because that would make you a coward with some douche mixed in.
Focus is a determinant of learning. Is this an obscure concept?
When I was younger and in undergrad, I used adderall but it was harder to get then (I think I'm getting old.) If I had a research question, a lit review, a thesis and all my data - I could add in 30 mgs of adderall and write 30-40 pages of publication worthy research. My undergraduate thesis was 150 pages of pure bliss. But it never helped me cram for say a chem or physics or calculus test, for some reason it just never worked that way for me. I don't understand or see this to be cheating at all. Even if it did help you retain information for 12 hours to do well on a test, the point of post secondary education is critical thinking and research skills - not getting the "right" answers on an exam. I mean, some of the BFA students I knew would smoke a ton of dope in the early stages of their process, what does that matter? The idea of a performance enhancing drug only comes into play when there is a clear cut competitive objctive (hitting the finish line first, being ahead when the game clock runs out etc.) I don't see how academics could be legitimately viewed in those terms.
Now here I am 15 years later and if I did 30mg of adderall I would just do a ton of laundry, mop and wax the floors...twice and walk the dog four times. Lol. My drug tolerance is not what it used to be.
Soph. year i was in an astrology class with only about 9 people, the only other guy was one of my bf's. The teacher would leave the graded tests in a folder outside of his office and you'd simply walk up and take your test to see what you scored. I was the first one there and was thumbing through the tests when i stumbled upon an essay written by this cunt in my class. I'm extremely nosey so i read the note and to my dismay it said "I just wanted to let you know that during the test when you stepped out for 10 mins, the white boy in our class walked down and sat next to his hispanic friend and copied from him". I was in absolute astonishment, i called my buddy and told him the story, he wanted to throw a brick at her car, way extreme for me so we settled on creating a facebook group called Alicia Frinack is a snitch (that is her real name). Teacher never said one word to me, i got a 65 and my buddy got a 85... turns out i can't even cheat correctly.
Astrology or astronomy?
Correction, astronomy....
This battle is obviously FratStars vs. Nerds. lol
@pjroche1989 and for back_that_thang_up,
It is abundantly clear that pjroche1989 is completely ignorant to the correlation between focus and learning. Clearly, if one is able to focus more intently and for a longer period of time, that they will be much more likely to learn the material upon which they are focusing. Yes, there is a difference between concentration and synthesis, but my friend, it doesn't take a genius (which you apparently take yourself to be), to see that the two are inherently interlinked. If one focuses, one has a better chance of learning; if one does not focus, then clearly you're not going to learn.
Oh, and if a clear, concise logical argument doesn't win you over perhaps some hard science and evidence will convince your ill-informed "opinion." http://www.emaxhealth.com/1275/37/35963/ritalin-improves-ability-learn… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nootropic (Go to the Vitamins and Supplements section, Stimulants subsection) Story from a Harvard student who himself said it enhanced his academic abilities: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/sep/20/neuroenhancers-us-brain-p…
So, feel free to dismount your high horse any time, realize you're incorrect, and be aware that it is you, in fact, who should not be allowed to post your ramblings on the Internet. FACE.
Good work back_that_thang_up.
We don't have adderall in the UK.
We do have modafinil though..
Everyone should take adderall
Adderall is definitely cheating. I could've easily had at least a 3.5 gpa instead of my solid 2.5. I tried it for one exam and aced it, had 3 others exams for that class and C-ed out. It's no different from steroids...performance enhancing is performance enhancing, whether it's physical or mental. I would not have aced that first exam if I didn't take adderall.
This is all besides the fact that ADHD is a FAKE condition...it's called being bored. No shit you can't focus when you read text books or prospectuses, they're boring as fuck. Show someone with "ADHD" something they're interested in and they have no problem focusing on it. Big pharma is playing ya'll like crazy
Tottaly agree, i have yet to try ridalin during an exam, but soon i will. I have tried 1-3DMAA which is very similar structure to amphetamines, and the focus and they quickness your thoughts come to you is amazing.
If you're not cheating you're not trying
Is adderall cheating? Technically speaking, probably. I don't use it anymore, but I have no problem with those who do.
se adderrall = weak mental constitution.
that's exactly how I see it.
I would not necessarily consider those who take Adderall cheaters. Even though I have never taken it, I think it would prove beneficial if I did. It does not make you any smarter, just increases your ability to focus, and therefore increases studying efficiency.
Adderall will do nothing for an individual that is lacking in processing power. I will say that it is like taking the easy way out when it comes to focusing, versus relying on self-discipline techniques and isolation from distraction. I am a believer in the term “if it ain't broke, don't fix it” and thus, I have not had any trouble studying to this day.
Adderall just gives you that extra bit of motivation, diligence, and persistence that normally don’t exist in individuals who would rather be at a bar or playing video-games. It will temporarily make everything else seem less important and will allow you to focus on the subject of study. It is not cheating, if anything it is used by individuals who care to put the extra effort into studying because they know they cant focus without it.
A close friend of mine is a clear example of how Adderall does not make you smarter. He had every intention to learn and process information when we studied together. I tutored countless times (both when he was on Adderall and off) and the only thing I noticed was that when he was on the drug he was simply more motivated to study and learn the materiel. It almost turned him into a go getter. I don’t think he comprehended things any better though whether he was on the drug or off.
Simply put; Its not cheating, its just a pill of self-discipline for those who don’t have it.
UGH... This is exactly why the economy is in trouble in the western world. We do not enforce rules consistantly enough and it reward the liars and cheats. These dishonest people then become the people in power; they provide advantages for thier kids and teach them to lie and cheat and it the power of the dishonest grows. I understand the pressure to cheat and keep up with the curve. Problem is we now have rampant lying and cheating and it has blown up in our face. This behavior is the equivilent of cutting in line, it helps the individual, but only by hurting everyone else. Unfortunately this is just one more "canopy effect" where more resources get wasted just to be able to keep up with competition (named after what happens with trees in a forest, trees don't need to be tall, but the taller trees get more sunlight, so each generation of trees each got taller to the final effect that now all trees are tall) . NO ONE needs Adderal (except for a significant minority) to do well, but I do not consider it cheating so much as upping the ante in terms of cost and personal risk. We keep trying to find ways to get more out of less but in the end there is only so much time and effort available and when people pop pills to get ahead it just raises the bar for everyone else and creates unreal expectations. The problem is people get away with it WAY TOO MUCH. The housing crisis of 2008 and the following recession are directly caused by lying and cheating. Borrowers lied, lenders lied, morgage brokers lied and rating agencies lied. With the rating agencies, it may have not been on purpose, but someone had to see that the non-payment rate of subprime loans doubled during the calender year 2007 and decided not to make downgrades of products that were overrated to begin with. Lying and cheating (and stealing) all work great if you are the only one doing them; they work, but not as well when more join in; when it becomes the norm it helps no one, only hurting those who don't do it. We need to seek the greater good at least once in a while or we will all be tyring to grow our own food. No trust no economy!
Well put. It is a systematic problem at this point, and we are all expected to comply. But I think the recent turn of the economy has put things in perspective. The level of lying and cheating within the business world cannot be sustained in my opinion without harsh consequences. Not saying that I'm a saint, but we all should try to become better as professionals.
^ well put Doog37, SB for you
I don't care if peole use it. It makes me feel good to score higher than people who use it haha.
To people who don't think Adderall is cheating, a very hairy situation comes up when the exam/course is graded on a curve where only a certain number of kids can get As. If some of the kids use Adderall and get As, then that messes you up too. I feel like a lot of us who don't think it's cheating would change our minds pretty quick if we got the B- when we really deserved the A.
Just realized that the movie "Limitless" was alluding to this... There is a very particular line in the movie where one guy says that the pill is more effective if youre already smart but inefficient.
Are you in a fraternity? You should see what kind of databases these guys have. Holy shit. And the business fraternities especially. They have literally everything...
We had a pretty extensive database of old tests and papers in mine...
I am prescribed adderall, but there are certainly very easy ways / doctors who will give a prescription.
I am a 2nd year IB analyst at a semi BB and take Addy every working day. I would not be as good if I didnt take it...so I keep taking it to keep performing.
-Barry Bonds
this inspired me to buy adr on naz... but its at a ridic pe... so no banana... probs not going to drop anytime soon either :\ damn it looks like a class stock to prepare for an education overkill 'middle class' generation swelling trying to get nonexistent jobs and topping all universities worldwide
Quick answer. NO!
NO, cheating is not okay. Being an asshat for not studying when someone else is picking up the tab. Its like masturbating. Feels good, but in the end you're only fucking yourself.
Biggest problem is the grade inflation in college.
addy is definitely cheating on a timed standardized test where concentration is critical (i.e. MCAT) for use while studying, its more of a toss up, I personally have never done it but the temptation is understandable on curved courses still, I would rather manage my commitments up front than have to do that, but that is a personal decision. I've dropped some very good, philanthropic activities because of this reason, so in theory the world could be a (slightly) better place if I had fewer qualms
Cheating is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form whatsoever. Adderall is pathetic.
There's my $0.02.
Also, the fuck is a "semi BB?"Probably referring to the Jefferies/Macquarie tier.
A thing that's half the man a BB is.
Jokes
Wow, simply wow
I consider myself a generally decent person. But i cheated twice in college:
I took adderall to cram for a biology final. I managed to focus for like 6 hr straight and absorb all the information. Got a 98 on the exam - ridiculous.
I also turned in a paper for a history class my roomate had written the previous year. It was a large lecture class so the chances of getting caught were slim. He got an -A. I fixed a few things and made it sound sharper. Got an A.
I Felt a moment of guilt right before i turned it in - but the benefits of integrity didnt outweigh the costs of ruining my gpa. Sad but true.
Honestly, I think this is a dumb argument, if you followed most of the people's reasoning who are against Aderall usage then coffee would also be banned. It artificially allows you to study longer. Does that mean caffeine should be banned? What about red bull? Its a slippery slope. Aderall isn't cheating because you still need to learn the material. Cheating, imo, is when you either know the answers before a test or bring information into a test that other people don't have.
But you don't need a prescription to get caffiene or red bull.
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