Maybe GS because conversion is low? Obviously not a huge lateral market after summer. Really on you to keep connections fresh at the bank you want to move to. Stay in contact over spring, summer hope your resume gets moved to top.
"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
Sorry for bad info. Offer rate for summer associates at GS is around 70% so I just assumed was similar for analysts.
"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
Pretty sure most banks are at least ~90%+ conversion rate. recruiting outside of SA class is extremely difficult and only getting more challenging over the last couple of years.
+1. unless a bank is majorly expanding and hiring on top of retaining the vast majority of their summers, FT is a shitshow, at least on a numbers basis.
Keep your head up, keep your heart strong
No, no, no, no
Keep your mind set, keep your hair long
Oh my my darlin'
keep your head up, keep your heart strong
No, no, no, no
Keep your mind set in your ways,
keep your heart strong
I would say boutiques hire a fair amount of people during FT in terms of percentages. Even if 30% is hired during FT that is still very few slots open.
Robert Clayton Dean: What is happening?
Brill: I blew up the building.
Robert Clayton Dean: Why?
Brill: Because you made a phone call.
Take a look at elite boutiques (among other boutiques)- while is it counterintuitive, they actually hire relatively more of their analyst class through the full time process from what I have heard / seen.
Had interviews at some of the GHL/Moelis/LAZ, etc. type places - did not receive offers, but they told me to stay in contact because they do not fill their analyst class with their summer interns. Even if all interns receive and accept offers, they plan to hire additional employees for the FT analyst class.
This is also beneficial because it is generally a generalist program and more straightforward across the firm, rather than trying to get involved in the BB process, which is often entirely independent within each group. Obviously cast a wide net and try to get in everywhere, but this may indicate where it is most helpful to focus.
Agree with this. At the BB level most FT recruiting will really be group specific so if you don't know anyone in the groups that are hiring it is much more difficult to navigate the process. On the contrary however, if you do know someone in a group hiring the process can be accelerated. For me the full process took a week and a half in August and I was hired into a group in which some of the bankers already knew me.
Is being a summer analyst a must for getting a full-time offer? (Originally Posted: 12/10/2012)
Hey! For IBD or S&T, is being a summer analyst at any bank basically a requirement for getting a full-time offer in the future? Any stories to refute or prove my claim?
From speaking with several analysts,most banks primarily recruit from their SA class these days. Some are taking on bigger SA classes, so they don't have to worry about FT recruiting. Of course, other relevant internships will help for IBD, but of course, nothing is a guarantee
If you're thinking BB I'd have to say it's almost a must from my friend's experiences. However, from seeing this year's analyst class' resumes over the summer, I can tell you as you move down the food chain it is less of a requirement. That being said, we filled about 60% of our FT class for next summer from our SA class (95% acceptance).
MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
i know several people that did Audit at Deloitte or something accounting/consulting related at E&Y or valuation at Duff & Phelps and landed BBs in NY
its all about you as a package. have a decent GPA (3.6+) network your ass off and spin the story. quantify your resume, make it sound banking related to the extent that you are NOT lying and you'll get interviews if you network and show you're interested/dedicated....this also depends IF there are spots. but generally have somthing relevant and you'll be okay
also, if you cant end up in IBD, ER or valuation over the summer (ideal), Acct/Consulting is okay and you can pitch during the interview/when networking that it isnt what you thought it would be etc. you want smthing more quantititaive and more fast paced and banking is more compatible with what you are looking for/your personality
again, you can make it work. i've seen kids that did corp dev roles at a fortune 500 company land FT offers this past year
also if you are worried, take 1 less class this spring and get a boutique IB internship (thats if you dont get anything solid through OCR for summer) and work there for all of spring/summer
this seems harsh but itll show come FT and when you are networking over the summer that you are serious and want to learn as much as possible. this is super important. dare i even say take the internship even if upaid...the work experience WILL pay off eventually. this just matters how bad you want it.
Kid in my class networked with an MD at a BB after doing a summer at a no name HF and because the MD's analyst did not take the offer he happened to get it. This is a highly respected group at a top BB and my school is a non-target. It can happen, but you have to get lucky
For banks that are doing really badly, they seem to only take from their SA class. Oftentimes, it's just easier being an SA b/c it's a direct streamline, but it's not 100% necessary.
It's possible, but unlikely, to land a FT offer without the summer internship. I did not intern at the bank I currently work at, but I may be somewhat of an exception as they overhired for my class. Just try your best to grab a SA position. If it doesn't work, there's still hope, but it becomes a lot harder.
Getting a FT offer without having a SA position (Originally Posted: 05/11/2009)
Hi,
I'm a rising senior and this summer I'm interning at a venture capital firm ($1.8 billion AUM) mostly doing deal sourcing. Last summer I worked at a private equity consulting firm doing the market research for the due diligence on deals. I don't attend a target school.
What does everyone think is my best shot at getting a full time offer at a bulge bracket bank? Should I just start networking all throughout summer? Am I dead in the water without a summer analyst position?
I don't mean to be a bitch, but won't I be behind because I'm lacking in corporate finance skills? I study finance, but I'm afraid the real world experience of a SA will give them a significant advantage
What Mez said. You're hardly dead in the water. Keep networking, and make sure your resume presents your work experience in a way that BB's would like. Also, be able to talk about your work experience in interviews, and how it can be transferred to the bank.
You have solid W/E and as long as you tailor your resume appropriately and maintain a high GPA you should be able to land an interview. Try to maintain some IB relationships that you work with this summer as I assume they will assist you in some capacity. Obviously, SAs have the benefit of having experienced the enviroment but most IBs dont care whether you come in with a skill set or not. Everything can be learned during FT training and on the job experience.
if you dont have a SA and want to get into IBD FT it's not too bad. WIth the exception of Lehman who did not recruit at all because they pretty much retained like almost 100% of their SA class, most BB still have room and you still have a definite shot of making it in FT (as was my situation).
Keep in mind that many of your peers who DID get a SA will most likely get a FT offer and will take it rather than go through the whole recruiting process again. This means, that even though there is less space within the division to get into, theres considerably less competition as well.
However, a key point is that you have to take a step back and ask yourself what it was that didn't allow you to get the SA position in the first place? What do you need to do different to polish yourself better for FT recruitment? For me personally, i found another internship position for that summer and leveraged the internship as better/more experience
Just a clarification: Lehman doesn't retain 100% of their SA class(es). They have two separate classes and thus have a large amount of SA's for the full-time spots they are looking to hire. As a result, last summer they hired almost completely out of their SA classes, but they didn't retain close to 100% of their SA's.
I guess in my specific case at least, LB only had START positions left and at their on-campus presentation, their recruiter had told me about how they look to hire most of their SAs so there probably was no opening left (or at least for my school).
even if you aren't an intern if you don't get in on early recruiting it will be hard in the fall...
you should be able to get one BB offer, it just may not be the BB or group of your choice
making friends with people that have ibd summer analyst jobs so that they can tell you when the recruiting events are over the summer..
and be in nyc for the summer
Is it hard to get a BB IBD FT offer without doing a intern? (Originally Posted: 05/24/2007)
If you didnt do a intern, is it hard to get a FT offer from a BB bank? For instance, if you did a intern in another industry and later on you find out you want to do IB. Is it still possible? I have heard 80% FT offers will be given out to summer interns. Can someone confirm this?
How about people that graduate and work for a year or two? Are they still able to get in and start from entry level? It seems that the recruiters only focus on recruiting from campus and does not really look at the applicants outside. Is hard to get an interview just by applying online? Do the recruiters consider people that have a year or two of experience? Anyone heard of successful stories and am willing to share? Thanks.
In short, yes. There are some who make it, but on a SuperDay, only a few get hired out of the hundreds that show up.
It's hard enough to get an internship, its even harder to get a FT offer. The statistic hovers around 70-80% that are hired as previous interns.
Therefore you're competing with limited spots filled by last summer's interns. Is it possible? Yes. But it's going to make a difficult process even harder.
How about people that graduate and work for a year or two? Are they still able to get in and start from entry level? It seems that the recruiters only focus on recruiting from campus and does not really look at the applicants outside.
Good question actually. CAn anyone comment on the above???
no full time offer from SA position (Originally Posted: 07/08/2008)
basically i am pretty 99% sure that i won't get a full time offer from my SA position (don't really get along with MD, also there are talks of other people in the group getting laid off) at a troubled BB. however, i do want to leverage the experience for FT at other banks. But i also know that the first thing they will ask me is "do you have an offer from ur SA position" so how should i answer it? my friend said just lie about it, but i am very uncomfortable with that.
I also have the same problem... am at a solid bank but am pretty sure I won't be returning. however i am on a trading desk and simply am not interested in the product. i declined an ibd summer offer with GS/MS earlier and now i really regret it... I don't plan on lying, seems like theres a lot more downside than upside. I plan on interviewing for both ibd and s&t positions (heck any living thing that will hire)
OP, I think that your assumption about them asking about offer from internship may be somewhat unfounded
Throught several interview processes, I have never, ever been asked a direct question like that regarding other job offers
When I had an FT interview last Nov (while holding a deferred FT offer for summer 2009 from my summer 2007 internship), I was not asked at any point about any offers I had on the table, maybe this happens more in the U.S.??
I highly recommend NOT lying if you are asked this question, HR personnel meet each other all the time at on-campus presentations and shit like that, and we all know those girls like to talk, so I don't think it would be that difficult for firm X to find out if you've got an offer from firm Y. Obviously due to Data Protection laws, this would not be strictly legal....but I bet it happens
Maybe other users can give you more of an insight into how to answer that question if it does come up
It's important to make interviewers realize that you're still a talented individual who remains interested in the industry, which is a more difficult task to when you don't get a FT offer. But with the job market so crappy, people should be more understanding. Gone are the days when every qualified SA could get a FT offer.
One way to answer is to tell the truth (i.e. you didn't like the division or the product and feel that something else fits your interests/skill set better). Then be proactive and offer up a name of a full-timer you worked closely with (the more senior, the better) who can vouch for your competence and your explanation. You want them to make that phone call in order to eliminate any reservations they may have about you.
Agreed, never lie, that can only hurt you more than it can help. Worst comes to worst just be completely honest and spin it to help you. I would say something to the extent of "I had a great experience, and learned a ton but at the end of the summer I didn't get along with the people I worked with. I realized just how important culture and the types of people you work with are in an industry where you are with them for 80 hours+ per week and that is a big reason that I am here applying at X bank because I have spoken to people and heard the culture is like _____ whereas at my previous bank it was like ______." I don't know, maybe thats garbage, but I'd say whatever you do, don't lie.
"I had a great experience, and learned a ton but at the end of the summer I didn't get along with the people I worked with. I realized just how important culture and the types of people you work with are in an industry where you are with them for 80 hours+ per week and that is a big reason that I am here applying at X bank because I have spoken to people and heard the culture is like _____ whereas at my previous bank it was like ______." "
----Follow up question by interviewer to that answer will be : "how many people did you talk to or do informationals with at your SA bank? Really? So how do you know you'll get along with us?"
I am not playing devils advocate when I say getting an offer from the summer is very important. Whenever I interview someone for a first year position that had a SA position I ask if they got an offer. Some of them can explain decently why they didn't get the offer i.e. I slept with a VP and it is now ackward.
But why are you so sure you don't have an offer. You are only half way through your internship. You need to shape up and make sure you get that offer if you are serious. Even if you don't want to stay at this firm, your resume will look much better. Think about it, you need to work your butt off and kiss up for 5 weeks. That is NOT so hard, especially if you plan on going into IBD where you will need to do this for 2 years.
During my summer, my mid-summer interview was terrible. They had little positive to say and loads of negative. At my final review, the reviewer said he has no idea how I did it, but I only had positive reviews at the end. Needless to say I got the offer.
I am not playing devils advocate when I say getting an offer from the summer is very important. Whenever I interview someone for a first year position that had a SA position I ask if they got an offer. Some of them can explain decently why they didn't get the offer i.e. I slept with a VP and it is now ackward.
But why are you so sure you don't have an offer. You are only half way through your internship. You need to shape up and make sure you get that offer if you are serious. Even if you don't want to stay at this firm, your resume will look much better. Think about it, you need to work your butt off and kiss up for 5 weeks. That is NOT so hard, especially if you plan on going into IBD where you will need to do this for 2 years.
During my summer, my mid-summer interview was terrible. They had little positive to say and loads of negative. At my final review, the reviewer said he has no idea how I did it, but I only had positive reviews at the end. Needless to say I got the offer.
You still have a chance.
Actually, at some banks (like Lehman), they have 2 8-week internship periods throughout the summer, and the first 8-week session is ending this Friday. They do this so that they have more of a variety to choose from and so they don't have to recruit for FT. So the OP may only have 3 days left in their SA stint.
Ignore your friend, don't lie. It might work, but I could also see a situation where they ask follow-up questions about your offer (e.g. when you have to accept, base money, signing bonus, etc) where you would have to keep making new lies up, and that is a situation you don't want to be in. As others have said, I think recruiters will be more understanding about not getting a FT offer in this market. Try and get at least one or two senior guys to like you, and then offer them up as someone who can vouch for your intelligence and work ethic.
If you don't get an offer after SA, how screwed are you for FT? (Originally Posted: 11/25/2013)
From what I understand, most first year analysts come directly from SA classes (heard that a division at GS was over 95% or something ridiculous). That being said how tough is it to find FT offers without interning at that bank?
If you don't get an offer or decide you would rather work at a different bank, is it realistic to end up in any of the top BBs? Would be interested to hear some input on this.
Thanks
"I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's." William Blake
Have read/heard it's relatively simple/common for interns who receive offers but want to move to other banks to do so. Would be much harder if you don't get an offer obviously, not quite sure how that scenario plays out.
I applied to a really wide range of firms...just worried about how much the internship I end up taking this summer will affect FT opportunities.
Has anyone had the dilemma of offers coming in November/December, while networking with/getting interviews at banks that don't give out offers until February?
"I must create a system or be enslaved by another man's." William Blake
Yup there are very few available. The only way to make it is to have a connection on the inside who will notify you if any openings are available. Some banks do a minor top off and might hire a one-off person here or there, but you have to get pretty lucky. You might have a chance to hop banks if you work at one BB and try to jump to another, but just getting in for FT is really tough.
I did not do my SA stint here in the U.S or any major markets in the world, but did manage to get an offer after going through FT recruiting. Just as @Carnage said, strong network + viable story will get you there.
To add to what was said above, while it's probably relatively tough to get the FT offer elsewhere without an SA return offer, it's different if you didn't get the SA because of circumstances entirely outside your control. Know someone who didn't get the FT because of hiring needs/group restructuring (but the group loved this person and I'm sure they went to bat for this person during FT recruitment) and this person ended up with very arguably a much, much better FT offer elsewhere.
To also illustrate how much better getting a FT would be (not saying you don't know, just showing a cool but admittedly extreme example) I heard about someone who got a return FT offer at BarCap/CS/Citi/DB and leveraged that for a FT offer at JPM/Laz/Evercore and then leveraged THAT one (in the same recruiting cycle) for a FT offer at GS/MS/BX.
To anyone who gets worked up about how banks are grouped in posts- not necessarily grouping them according to similar prestige etc, just put a bunch of banks together to maintain anonymity.
not impossible, but it's definitely an uphill battle. a GS TMT SA didn't get a return offer and ended up at Lazard for fulltime while a GS FIG SA didn't get a return offer and didn't get an offer from any other top banks/a MS M&T SA didn't get a return offer and also didn't get an offer from any of the BB's/EB's.
not impossible, but it's definitely an uphill battle. a GS TMT SA didn't get a return offer and ended up at Lazard for fulltime while a GS FIG SA didn't get a return offer and didn't get an offer from any other top banks/a MS M&T SA didn't get a return offer and also didn't get an offer from any of the BB's/EB's.
I feel like that has more to do with the interviewing prowess / lack of network of the people that failed to land other offers than the difficulty of getting a FT without an SA
it depends a lot on interviewing ability and the people/banks you get access to during full-time recruiting. Students who had SAs but did not receive offers were probably unlucky in terms of manager/group/staffing/revenue environment rather than the more glaring deficiencies- technical incompetence with Excel, bad or arrogant attitude, poor social manners etc. Remember, people get into IB with art history backgrounds, so technical ability as an SA is not that important generally.
One bit of advice for interns is to network extensively during the internship. Relationships are everything. At the end of the day you'll need your manager and maybe a couple of other people to advocate for you with the hiring committee. Relationships and perception are more important than actual work product- this is especially true in S&T where there isn't much work for interns to do.
If you don't get an offer, frame it as a budget/headcount issue. At the end of the day, most prospective employers won't care if you have a good, logical answer. Don't badmouth anybody and answer matter-of-factly. Some places like MBB apparently won't hire people who report they didn't get an offer. That said, in buyside/hedge funds, which are the best jobs out there in terms of comp, people don't care much because these funds don't give out offers months in advance to their summer interns and hiring is typically just-in-time.
networking is definitely super important. when my name came up at the review panel, a MD spoke up right away and talked me up. it was pretty much already decided that I would be getting an offer before anyone else talked about me.
another thing is to show that you're not a thoughtless monkey, please. so many kids I met during my SA and during recruiting were mindless. sure, they turn decks as well as i did and do financial analysis as well i could, but they didn't care about anything beyond getting their work done nor were they independent thinkers. they were literally just robots carrying out their exact orders.
show some curiosity, show you can think shit out and reason stuff out. have an opinion on the stuff you're working on. people know you know nothing as a summer, but showing you're sharp and inquisitive + making an effort will make you shine.
SA, No Offer, Wondering about Full Time (Originally Posted: 07/13/2008)
I interned this summer at the only bb whose already given some (and rejected some) offers. Within my group, only one offer was given, as it is probably their worst area at the moment in IBD. However, this aside, I feel as if I have a) failed and b) have no options.
I am still interested in working in banking, and I think outside the scope of how things played out, I did a great job. I had VP's pull me into their offices after I found out, personally apologize, and offer to write me letters of rec's. I am confident that there letters would be great, however, not confident that I would be able to land an offer at another bank.
So, what should I do? I really wanted to do banking for the long term - not just two years - and I wasn't sure if I wanted to get an MBA. I could go straight to Grad School, but I worry no one would hire me because I'd fall into that "well where do we put you" (not an analyst, not really an associate) bucket.
If I don't do banking, what other options do I have? I have no interest in sales and trading, I would like to work in a challenging environment and I would prefer to work long hours/make more money.
Has anyone been in this situation? If so, how did you handle it? What do you think my next move should be?
One other thing - I'm from a very non-target school (only a handful of wall street alums) and there is no full time recruiting, I networked my way in to Lehman (however I actually had no alumni there either)
the key is network with all banks and also Hedge Funds. Even try sales and trading, especially sales, I am sure if you love I banking you will like sales some sales mangers and traders make more money than investment bankers. In your case, I will try to reach out and cold call, try to get contacts from your VP's that work in other financial institutions. I am sure since they are willing to write you rec-letters, they will help you by giving some their contact who are willing to help. The key is to be aggressive and to start from now.
Have you considered MM/Boutique firms? Alot of the smaller teams are still hiring, and just because you are with a small team doesn't mean you can't work on big deals, you just have to find the boutiques with strong leaders (Ex-UBS LA types, etc. etc. for instance).
The best thing about some of these firms is they can afford to have a staggered hiring process, where they take someone whenever they come along, if the firm feels the potential hire is worth it.
Citygirl I have faith that you will make it happen. You have came way too far to quit now. I know you were pretty set on this banking thing, its far from over. Be strong.
"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"
"Oh the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion" - Frank Slaughtery 25th Hour.
maybe check out sales & trading and/or consulting
a year ago i would have said i wanted to "work more hours and make more money" but thats not necessarily the case
esp in this enviroment, banking seems like "work more hours and make the same money"
though if your set on banking check out the other banks and the boutiques as well. i think alphaholic is refering to Moelis, and that might be the kind of firm to look into.
Definitely check out MM/boutiques if you are open to them. I think given they way recruiting will be this year, we (I'm a SA also) should be open to any option, especially if we are not getting return offers.
I'm sorry to hear that you did not get an offer, but honestly you are a quality candidate to get into Lehman from a non-target, sounds like it really is a minor setback. Just keep networking, and be open to other opportunities in fields related to banking as well. Good luck - I think we all need it.
I think that people will definately be more understanding of your situation because you were at Lehman and they are aware of the situation over there. A friend of mine was in a somewhat similar situation, summered at a group that blew up and was able to get an even better job despite the lack of a returning offer. People usually hear about what's going on at other banks through the grapevine. Leverage the recommendations as much as you can, and try to take it one step further by asking them to introduce you to their banker buddies at other banks. That's what my friend did and it worked out perfectly. Be aggressive, keep your head up and I'm sure things will work out for you.
Go to MBB for 2yrs==> MBA---> Associate in IBD or PE at a top firm
Given the market this is the best...
At our firm we reject no offer candidates immediately, many of my friends in other BB banks have confirmed this same kind of selection process at their firms..
If you are really good you will get an offer regardless the market regardless the team, HR will place you in another team etc...
My team and other teams often prefer to recruit a non-target with an undergrad in philosophy and no internship at all rather than a target-candidate with an outstanding CV and relevant degrees and IBD internship just because of no offer..
No returning offer = crap by default!
Most bankers are too arrogant to see that not having an offer can have a variety of causes instead of the obvious crappy intern cause..
Especially in this market you will have a tremendous disadvantage, honestly you are in deep deep deep
deep deep deep deep deep deep shit!!!!!!!!!!!
Go to MBB for 2yrs==> MBA---> Associate in IBD or PE at a top firm
yeah, let's all just follow your dumbass plan which involves just 'going' to MBB, I didn't realise they were handing out free passes you retard
And we don't need to hear how you and the rest of your 'team' at your 'global' used car lot recruit new salesmen
what sorta commission you on?
globaldealmaker:
Go to MBB for 2yrs==> MBA---> Associate in IBD or PE at a top firm
Given the market this is the best...
At our firm we reject no offer candidates immediately, many of my friends in other BB banks have confirmed this same kind of selection process at their firms..
If you are really good you will get an offer regardless the market regardless the team, HR will place you in another team etc...
My team and other teams often prefer to recruit a non-target with an undergrad in philosophy and no internship at all rather than a target-candidate with an outstanding CV and relevant degrees and IBD internship just because of no offer..
No returning offer = crap by default!
Most bankers are too arrogant to see that not having an offer can have a variety of causes instead of the obvious crappy intern cause..
Especially in this market you will have a tremendous disadvantage, honestly you are in deep deep deep
deep deep deep deep deep deep shit!!!!!!!!!!!
Go to MBB for 2yrs==> MBA---> Associate in IBD or PE at a top firm
honestly i think i am going to head for the master's path (hopefully berk or stanford for masters in finance). i am at a top bank but really do not click well with the group, plus i'm not interested in the product. i hope the market picks up when i apply again full time...
If you want to keep doing banking, why should not getting a FT offer at your firm discourage you from doing so? It's understood that the economy's tough, the bank where you're working hasn't exactly had the best summer from a performance or publicity standpoint, and you have two VP's who are willing to vouch for you. As you said, only one person in your group got a returning offer. If I were you, I'd start reaching out to bankers and banking HR at other BB's and see what is out there. I understand your disappointment in not getting a FT offer, but most of your other classmates are in the same boat. Just keep your head up, stick to your story, realize that your not getting an offer is a function of the economy, and keep at it. Just be tenacious about your job search targeting the top banks and MM's equally -- you'll be surprised what a little tenacity and persistence can get you in this field. You were determined enough to get a summer analyst position even in spite of there not being much recruiting at your non-target school, so why let your guard down now? Keep at it and things will work out.
Glad I wasn't the only one that smelled the absolute bullshit coming out of globaldealmaker. Because people can really waltz right into MBB. What an idiot.
Are you going to be a senior in the Fall? Given the location in your profile, there has to be at least a boutique in the area that will let you intern there during the school year and hopefully you'll get a full time offer from that. As long as you are planning on doing banking for long term, you don't have to start working at a BB. Take a front office job at a boutique and see how it goes from there. After a while, you can decide if you want to stay there or move to a BB which should definitely be easier based on experience.
If you're sure you want to do banking long term, it's not the end of the world if you don't start out at a BB. At least you have a BB internship on your resume.
If you've got great grades, I would check out LSE Masters in Finance, Oxford Masters in Financial Economics, and Cambridge Masters in Finance. The problem with US school's is that there are literally zero legit Finance Masters degrees. Even Princeton, which is near impossible to get into, will not give you access to Investment banking front office. The Ivies and other top schools(Stanford, Berk) that do have some finance type masters are all Financial Engineering programs designed for math and computer geeks which never place front office. In the UK, they have schools with good 1 year programs which can land you in BB IB/MBB type positions. MBA is obviously out of the question. So if you do end up in a jam and without an offer this fall, you might want to take the GMAT and at least apply.
Also, be proud of what you have accomplished, especially from a non-target. Don't beat yourself up about it, your still in great shape. From your post, I gather that you have an honest desire to work in banking for good reasons and not exit ops and with your SA experience you know what that entails. I'm certain that if you can land an interview you have an excellent chance. Keep your head up, stay motivated, push to get a full-time offer, and develop a solid backup plan which will get you into banking in the near future should you be unable to get in this Fall.
the whole reason why summer internships are so competitive is because if you intern at a top tier BB, or hell, any BB over summer...your chances of landing a great full time offers are very high.
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Maybe GS because conversion is low? Obviously not a huge lateral market after summer. Really on you to keep connections fresh at the bank you want to move to. Stay in contact over spring, summer hope your resume gets moved to top.
Definitely not GS. They had 5 available IBD analyst spots for this coming year.
Sorry for bad info. Offer rate for summer associates at GS is around 70% so I just assumed was similar for analysts.
I'd guess the lower tier BB/MM firms. They are the ones who in general will try to lateral to a better bank after their SA stint.
Also interested.
Pretty sure most banks are at least ~90%+ conversion rate. recruiting outside of SA class is extremely difficult and only getting more challenging over the last couple of years.
+1. unless a bank is majorly expanding and hiring on top of retaining the vast majority of their summers, FT is a shitshow, at least on a numbers basis.
looks like I have to give up getting a ft offer from major banks..............
Keep your head up, keep your heart strong No, no, no, no Keep your mind set, keep your hair long Oh my my darlin' keep your head up, keep your heart strong No, no, no, no Keep your mind set in your ways, keep your heart strong
I have a lot of friends that post-summer lateral'd to Evercore- they never seem to hire their desired FT class in SAs and leave slots open.
I would say boutiques hire a fair amount of people during FT in terms of percentages. Even if 30% is hired during FT that is still very few slots open.
So basically for BBs in NYC, after SAs fill in the full time offers there would be only about 5-10 spots left for outsiders. Correct?
Would it be less cut-throat to aim for off-cycle internships? I am planning to graduate in December....
I was hired off-cycle in Fall last year, along with 3 others. The hiring spree continues with M&A market on its current pace.
Could I PM you for more info?
Take a look at elite boutiques (among other boutiques)- while is it counterintuitive, they actually hire relatively more of their analyst class through the full time process from what I have heard / seen.
Had interviews at some of the GHL/Moelis/LAZ, etc. type places - did not receive offers, but they told me to stay in contact because they do not fill their analyst class with their summer interns. Even if all interns receive and accept offers, they plan to hire additional employees for the FT analyst class.
This is also beneficial because it is generally a generalist program and more straightforward across the firm, rather than trying to get involved in the BB process, which is often entirely independent within each group. Obviously cast a wide net and try to get in everywhere, but this may indicate where it is most helpful to focus.
Good luck.
Agree with this. At the BB level most FT recruiting will really be group specific so if you don't know anyone in the groups that are hiring it is much more difficult to navigate the process. On the contrary however, if you do know someone in a group hiring the process can be accelerated. For me the full process took a week and a half in August and I was hired into a group in which some of the bankers already knew me.
-
Is being a summer analyst a must for getting a full-time offer? (Originally Posted: 12/10/2012)
Hey! For IBD or S&T, is being a summer analyst at any bank basically a requirement for getting a full-time offer in the future? Any stories to refute or prove my claim?
From speaking with several analysts,most banks primarily recruit from their SA class these days. Some are taking on bigger SA classes, so they don't have to worry about FT recruiting. Of course, other relevant internships will help for IBD, but of course, nothing is a guarantee
If you're thinking BB I'd have to say it's almost a must from my friend's experiences. However, from seeing this year's analyst class' resumes over the summer, I can tell you as you move down the food chain it is less of a requirement. That being said, we filled about 60% of our FT class for next summer from our SA class (95% acceptance).
i know several people that did Audit at Deloitte or something accounting/consulting related at E&Y or valuation at Duff & Phelps and landed BBs in NY
its all about you as a package. have a decent GPA (3.6+) network your ass off and spin the story. quantify your resume, make it sound banking related to the extent that you are NOT lying and you'll get interviews if you network and show you're interested/dedicated....this also depends IF there are spots. but generally have somthing relevant and you'll be okay
also, if you cant end up in IBD, ER or valuation over the summer (ideal), Acct/Consulting is okay and you can pitch during the interview/when networking that it isnt what you thought it would be etc. you want smthing more quantititaive and more fast paced and banking is more compatible with what you are looking for/your personality
again, you can make it work. i've seen kids that did corp dev roles at a fortune 500 company land FT offers this past year
also if you are worried, take 1 less class this spring and get a boutique IB internship (thats if you dont get anything solid through OCR for summer) and work there for all of spring/summer
this seems harsh but itll show come FT and when you are networking over the summer that you are serious and want to learn as much as possible. this is super important. dare i even say take the internship even if upaid...the work experience WILL pay off eventually. this just matters how bad you want it.
I was not a summer analyst and did get an offer
Kid in my class networked with an MD at a BB after doing a summer at a no name HF and because the MD's analyst did not take the offer he happened to get it. This is a highly respected group at a top BB and my school is a non-target. It can happen, but you have to get lucky
For banks that are doing really badly, they seem to only take from their SA class. Oftentimes, it's just easier being an SA b/c it's a direct streamline, but it's not 100% necessary.
It's possible, but unlikely, to land a FT offer without the summer internship. I did not intern at the bank I currently work at, but I may be somewhat of an exception as they overhired for my class. Just try your best to grab a SA position. If it doesn't work, there's still hope, but it becomes a lot harder.
was not a summer analyst at any of the top bb or boutiques yet ended up getting a full time offer from one this year
FT recruiting is much, much harder than SA recruiting. Not impossible, but you should definitely shoot for getting the SA.
Recruiters answer: no Real answer: yes
Getting a FT offer without having a SA position (Originally Posted: 05/11/2009)
Hi,
I'm a rising senior and this summer I'm interning at a venture capital firm ($1.8 billion AUM) mostly doing deal sourcing. Last summer I worked at a private equity consulting firm doing the market research for the due diligence on deals. I don't attend a target school.
What does everyone think is my best shot at getting a full time offer at a bulge bracket bank? Should I just start networking all throughout summer? Am I dead in the water without a summer analyst position?
Ummm...please dude. You are better off then most people on this board. I think you're pretty well positioned.
And networking is a continous process that you should always be doing.
Good luck.
I don't mean to be a bitch, but won't I be behind because I'm lacking in corporate finance skills? I study finance, but I'm afraid the real world experience of a SA will give them a significant advantage
TeamLRAM http://teamlram.wordpress.com
What Mez said. You're hardly dead in the water. Keep networking, and make sure your resume presents your work experience in a way that BB's would like. Also, be able to talk about your work experience in interviews, and how it can be transferred to the bank.
OP,
You have solid W/E and as long as you tailor your resume appropriately and maintain a high GPA you should be able to land an interview. Try to maintain some IB relationships that you work with this summer as I assume they will assist you in some capacity. Obviously, SAs have the benefit of having experienced the enviroment but most IBs dont care whether you come in with a skill set or not. Everything can be learned during FT training and on the job experience.
IBD Full Time offer without SA (Originally Posted: 05/15/2007)
Ive heard a lot about how banks are filling up their classes with more and more interns.
How hard is it to land an offer the old fashioned way. From a Target, with a high GPA.
Bulge Bracket of course
You should have a good chance if you did something useful during your summers.
if you dont have a SA and want to get into IBD FT it's not too bad. WIth the exception of Lehman who did not recruit at all because they pretty much retained like almost 100% of their SA class, most BB still have room and you still have a definite shot of making it in FT (as was my situation).
Keep in mind that many of your peers who DID get a SA will most likely get a FT offer and will take it rather than go through the whole recruiting process again. This means, that even though there is less space within the division to get into, theres considerably less competition as well.
However, a key point is that you have to take a step back and ask yourself what it was that didn't allow you to get the SA position in the first place? What do you need to do different to polish yourself better for FT recruitment? For me personally, i found another internship position for that summer and leveraged the internship as better/more experience
Just a clarification: Lehman doesn't retain 100% of their SA class(es). They have two separate classes and thus have a large amount of SA's for the full-time spots they are looking to hire. As a result, last summer they hired almost completely out of their SA classes, but they didn't retain close to 100% of their SA's.
Possible, although you do want to do something useful during the summer.
thanks for the clarification yanks.
I guess in my specific case at least, LB only had START positions left and at their on-campus presentation, their recruiter had told me about how they look to hire most of their SAs so there probably was no opening left (or at least for my school).
even if you aren't an intern if you don't get in on early recruiting it will be hard in the fall... you should be able to get one BB offer, it just may not be the BB or group of your choice
what should I be doing now?
making friends with people that have ibd summer analyst jobs so that they can tell you when the recruiting events are over the summer.. and be in nyc for the summer
gotcha thanks
Is it hard to get a BB IBD FT offer without doing a intern? (Originally Posted: 05/24/2007)
If you didnt do a intern, is it hard to get a FT offer from a BB bank? For instance, if you did a intern in another industry and later on you find out you want to do IB. Is it still possible? I have heard 80% FT offers will be given out to summer interns. Can someone confirm this?
How about people that graduate and work for a year or two? Are they still able to get in and start from entry level? It seems that the recruiters only focus on recruiting from campus and does not really look at the applicants outside. Is hard to get an interview just by applying online? Do the recruiters consider people that have a year or two of experience? Anyone heard of successful stories and am willing to share? Thanks.
I think the best bet for anyone in any field is to do as many interns as possible.
mika ur hilarious
tee hee hee
hahaha. what mika said.
i just read this and burst out laughing at work and everyone prob thinks im nuts now, for laughing to myself. haha funniest shit ever
smano,
In short, yes. There are some who make it, but on a SuperDay, only a few get hired out of the hundreds that show up.
It's hard enough to get an internship, its even harder to get a FT offer. The statistic hovers around 70-80% that are hired as previous interns.
Therefore you're competing with limited spots filled by last summer's interns. Is it possible? Yes. But it's going to make a difficult process even harder.
Good question actually. CAn anyone comment on the above???
-
I do believe they would hire you with 1-2 years of relevant experience if you can proof that it was useful.
But if you 'worked' at local WalMart even as 'shift manager' for 2 years, i doubt that will help.
no full time offer from SA position (Originally Posted: 07/08/2008)
basically i am pretty 99% sure that i won't get a full time offer from my SA position (don't really get along with MD, also there are talks of other people in the group getting laid off) at a troubled BB. however, i do want to leverage the experience for FT at other banks. But i also know that the first thing they will ask me is "do you have an offer from ur SA position" so how should i answer it? my friend said just lie about it, but i am very uncomfortable with that.
I also have the same problem... am at a solid bank but am pretty sure I won't be returning. however i am on a trading desk and simply am not interested in the product. i declined an ibd summer offer with GS/MS earlier and now i really regret it... I don't plan on lying, seems like theres a lot more downside than upside. I plan on interviewing for both ibd and s&t positions (heck any living thing that will hire)
OP, I think that your assumption about them asking about offer from internship may be somewhat unfounded
Throught several interview processes, I have never, ever been asked a direct question like that regarding other job offers
When I had an FT interview last Nov (while holding a deferred FT offer for summer 2009 from my summer 2007 internship), I was not asked at any point about any offers I had on the table, maybe this happens more in the U.S.??
I highly recommend NOT lying if you are asked this question, HR personnel meet each other all the time at on-campus presentations and shit like that, and we all know those girls like to talk, so I don't think it would be that difficult for firm X to find out if you've got an offer from firm Y. Obviously due to Data Protection laws, this would not be strictly legal....but I bet it happens
Maybe other users can give you more of an insight into how to answer that question if it does come up
It's important to make interviewers realize that you're still a talented individual who remains interested in the industry, which is a more difficult task to when you don't get a FT offer. But with the job market so crappy, people should be more understanding. Gone are the days when every qualified SA could get a FT offer.
One way to answer is to tell the truth (i.e. you didn't like the division or the product and feel that something else fits your interests/skill set better). Then be proactive and offer up a name of a full-timer you worked closely with (the more senior, the better) who can vouch for your competence and your explanation. You want them to make that phone call in order to eliminate any reservations they may have about you.
Never lie.
Agreed, never lie, that can only hurt you more than it can help. Worst comes to worst just be completely honest and spin it to help you. I would say something to the extent of "I had a great experience, and learned a ton but at the end of the summer I didn't get along with the people I worked with. I realized just how important culture and the types of people you work with are in an industry where you are with them for 80 hours+ per week and that is a big reason that I am here applying at X bank because I have spoken to people and heard the culture is like _____ whereas at my previous bank it was like ______." I don't know, maybe thats garbage, but I'd say whatever you do, don't lie.
NEVER lose your BlackBerry www.conveniencesoftware.com
"I had a great experience, and learned a ton but at the end of the summer I didn't get along with the people I worked with. I realized just how important culture and the types of people you work with are in an industry where you are with them for 80 hours+ per week and that is a big reason that I am here applying at X bank because I have spoken to people and heard the culture is like _____ whereas at my previous bank it was like ______." "
----Follow up question by interviewer to that answer will be : "how many people did you talk to or do informationals with at your SA bank? Really? So how do you know you'll get along with us?"
I am not playing devils advocate when I say getting an offer from the summer is very important. Whenever I interview someone for a first year position that had a SA position I ask if they got an offer. Some of them can explain decently why they didn't get the offer i.e. I slept with a VP and it is now ackward.
But why are you so sure you don't have an offer. You are only half way through your internship. You need to shape up and make sure you get that offer if you are serious. Even if you don't want to stay at this firm, your resume will look much better. Think about it, you need to work your butt off and kiss up for 5 weeks. That is NOT so hard, especially if you plan on going into IBD where you will need to do this for 2 years.
During my summer, my mid-summer interview was terrible. They had little positive to say and loads of negative. At my final review, the reviewer said he has no idea how I did it, but I only had positive reviews at the end. Needless to say I got the offer.
You still have a chance.
Actually, at some banks (like Lehman), they have 2 8-week internship periods throughout the summer, and the first 8-week session is ending this Friday. They do this so that they have more of a variety to choose from and so they don't have to recruit for FT. So the OP may only have 3 days left in their SA stint.
Ignore your friend, don't lie. It might work, but I could also see a situation where they ask follow-up questions about your offer (e.g. when you have to accept, base money, signing bonus, etc) where you would have to keep making new lies up, and that is a situation you don't want to be in. As others have said, I think recruiters will be more understanding about not getting a FT offer in this market. Try and get at least one or two senior guys to like you, and then offer them up as someone who can vouch for your intelligence and work ethic.
If you don't get an offer after SA, how screwed are you for FT? (Originally Posted: 11/25/2013)
From what I understand, most first year analysts come directly from SA classes (heard that a division at GS was over 95% or something ridiculous). That being said how tough is it to find FT offers without interning at that bank?
If you don't get an offer or decide you would rather work at a different bank, is it realistic to end up in any of the top BBs? Would be interested to hear some input on this.
Thanks
It's pretty difficult to get FT at a BB unless you interned at that BB or another BB/EB
Have read/heard it's relatively simple/common for interns who receive offers but want to move to other banks to do so. Would be much harder if you don't get an offer obviously, not quite sure how that scenario plays out.
I applied to a really wide range of firms...just worried about how much the internship I end up taking this summer will affect FT opportunities.
Has anyone had the dilemma of offers coming in November/December, while networking with/getting interviews at banks that don't give out offers until February?
I think it happens more than people think. The power of a strong network and a viable story for not receiving a return offer can be very compelling.
I would imagine very few spots available at any of the top BB after they finish hiring out of the SA pool
Yup there are very few available. The only way to make it is to have a connection on the inside who will notify you if any openings are available. Some banks do a minor top off and might hire a one-off person here or there, but you have to get pretty lucky. You might have a chance to hop banks if you work at one BB and try to jump to another, but just getting in for FT is really tough.
Well, you can double-check my math here, but I'd say it's around 5%.
I did not do my SA stint here in the U.S or any major markets in the world, but did manage to get an offer after going through FT recruiting. Just as @Carnage said, strong network + viable story will get you there.
Thanks for the input
To add to what was said above, while it's probably relatively tough to get the FT offer elsewhere without an SA return offer, it's different if you didn't get the SA because of circumstances entirely outside your control. Know someone who didn't get the FT because of hiring needs/group restructuring (but the group loved this person and I'm sure they went to bat for this person during FT recruitment) and this person ended up with very arguably a much, much better FT offer elsewhere.
To also illustrate how much better getting a FT would be (not saying you don't know, just showing a cool but admittedly extreme example) I heard about someone who got a return FT offer at BarCap/CS/Citi/DB and leveraged that for a FT offer at JPM/Laz/Evercore and then leveraged THAT one (in the same recruiting cycle) for a FT offer at GS/MS/BX.
To anyone who gets worked up about how banks are grouped in posts- not necessarily grouping them according to similar prestige etc, just put a bunch of banks together to maintain anonymity.
In hindsight I'm surprised, but the question about FT offer from summer internship never came up in my interviews.
not impossible, but it's definitely an uphill battle. a GS TMT SA didn't get a return offer and ended up at Lazard for fulltime while a GS FIG SA didn't get a return offer and didn't get an offer from any other top banks/a MS M&T SA didn't get a return offer and also didn't get an offer from any of the BB's/EB's.
I feel like that has more to do with the interviewing prowess / lack of network of the people that failed to land other offers than the difficulty of getting a FT without an SA
it depends a lot on interviewing ability and the people/banks you get access to during full-time recruiting. Students who had SAs but did not receive offers were probably unlucky in terms of manager/group/staffing/revenue environment rather than the more glaring deficiencies- technical incompetence with Excel, bad or arrogant attitude, poor social manners etc. Remember, people get into IB with art history backgrounds, so technical ability as an SA is not that important generally.
One bit of advice for interns is to network extensively during the internship. Relationships are everything. At the end of the day you'll need your manager and maybe a couple of other people to advocate for you with the hiring committee. Relationships and perception are more important than actual work product- this is especially true in S&T where there isn't much work for interns to do.
If you don't get an offer, frame it as a budget/headcount issue. At the end of the day, most prospective employers won't care if you have a good, logical answer. Don't badmouth anybody and answer matter-of-factly. Some places like MBB apparently won't hire people who report they didn't get an offer. That said, in buyside/hedge funds, which are the best jobs out there in terms of comp, people don't care much because these funds don't give out offers months in advance to their summer interns and hiring is typically just-in-time.
networking is definitely super important. when my name came up at the review panel, a MD spoke up right away and talked me up. it was pretty much already decided that I would be getting an offer before anyone else talked about me.
another thing is to show that you're not a thoughtless monkey, please. so many kids I met during my SA and during recruiting were mindless. sure, they turn decks as well as i did and do financial analysis as well i could, but they didn't care about anything beyond getting their work done nor were they independent thinkers. they were literally just robots carrying out their exact orders.
show some curiosity, show you can think shit out and reason stuff out. have an opinion on the stuff you're working on. people know you know nothing as a summer, but showing you're sharp and inquisitive + making an effort will make you shine.
SA, No Offer, Wondering about Full Time (Originally Posted: 07/13/2008)
I interned this summer at the only bb whose already given some (and rejected some) offers. Within my group, only one offer was given, as it is probably their worst area at the moment in IBD. However, this aside, I feel as if I have a) failed and b) have no options.
I am still interested in working in banking, and I think outside the scope of how things played out, I did a great job. I had VP's pull me into their offices after I found out, personally apologize, and offer to write me letters of rec's. I am confident that there letters would be great, however, not confident that I would be able to land an offer at another bank.
So, what should I do? I really wanted to do banking for the long term - not just two years - and I wasn't sure if I wanted to get an MBA. I could go straight to Grad School, but I worry no one would hire me because I'd fall into that "well where do we put you" (not an analyst, not really an associate) bucket.
If I don't do banking, what other options do I have? I have no interest in sales and trading, I would like to work in a challenging environment and I would prefer to work long hours/make more money.
Has anyone been in this situation? If so, how did you handle it? What do you think my next move should be?
Please advise.
im guessing it was lehman...its only a small setback, just go kick some ass in fall recruiting
good luck
One other thing - I'm from a very non-target school (only a handful of wall street alums) and there is no full time recruiting, I networked my way in to Lehman (however I actually had no alumni there either)
the key is network with all banks and also Hedge Funds. Even try sales and trading, especially sales, I am sure if you love I banking you will like sales some sales mangers and traders make more money than investment bankers. In your case, I will try to reach out and cold call, try to get contacts from your VP's that work in other financial institutions. I am sure since they are willing to write you rec-letters, they will help you by giving some their contact who are willing to help. The key is to be aggressive and to start from now.
Have you considered MM/Boutique firms? Alot of the smaller teams are still hiring, and just because you are with a small team doesn't mean you can't work on big deals, you just have to find the boutiques with strong leaders (Ex-UBS LA types, etc. etc. for instance).
The best thing about some of these firms is they can afford to have a staggered hiring process, where they take someone whenever they come along, if the firm feels the potential hire is worth it.
Citygirl I have faith that you will make it happen. You have came way too far to quit now. I know you were pretty set on this banking thing, its far from over. Be strong.
"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"
maybe check out sales & trading and/or consulting a year ago i would have said i wanted to "work more hours and make more money" but thats not necessarily the case esp in this enviroment, banking seems like "work more hours and make the same money"
though if your set on banking check out the other banks and the boutiques as well. i think alphaholic is refering to Moelis, and that might be the kind of firm to look into.
Definitely check out MM/boutiques if you are open to them. I think given they way recruiting will be this year, we (I'm a SA also) should be open to any option, especially if we are not getting return offers.
I'm sorry to hear that you did not get an offer, but honestly you are a quality candidate to get into Lehman from a non-target, sounds like it really is a minor setback. Just keep networking, and be open to other opportunities in fields related to banking as well. Good luck - I think we all need it.
I think that people will definately be more understanding of your situation because you were at Lehman and they are aware of the situation over there. A friend of mine was in a somewhat similar situation, summered at a group that blew up and was able to get an even better job despite the lack of a returning offer. People usually hear about what's going on at other banks through the grapevine. Leverage the recommendations as much as you can, and try to take it one step further by asking them to introduce you to their banker buddies at other banks. That's what my friend did and it worked out perfectly. Be aggressive, keep your head up and I'm sure things will work out for you.
Current bankers?
Go to MBB for 2yrs==> MBA---> Associate in IBD or PE at a top firm
Given the market this is the best...
At our firm we reject no offer candidates immediately, many of my friends in other BB banks have confirmed this same kind of selection process at their firms..
If you are really good you will get an offer regardless the market regardless the team, HR will place you in another team etc...
My team and other teams often prefer to recruit a non-target with an undergrad in philosophy and no internship at all rather than a target-candidate with an outstanding CV and relevant degrees and IBD internship just because of no offer..
No returning offer = crap by default!
Most bankers are too arrogant to see that not having an offer can have a variety of causes instead of the obvious crappy intern cause..
Especially in this market you will have a tremendous disadvantage, honestly you are in deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep deep shit!!!!!!!!!!!
Go to MBB for 2yrs==> MBA---> Associate in IBD or PE at a top firm
It's your only road to happiness!
yeah, let's all just follow your dumbass plan which involves just 'going' to MBB, I didn't realise they were handing out free passes you retard
And we don't need to hear how you and the rest of your 'team' at your 'global' used car lot recruit new salesmen
what sorta commission you on?
honestly i think i am going to head for the master's path (hopefully berk or stanford for masters in finance). i am at a top bank but really do not click well with the group, plus i'm not interested in the product. i hope the market picks up when i apply again full time...
i have heard going directly for a masters can be problematic because then you have no true experience and now you're expecting to be an associate
If you want to keep doing banking, why should not getting a FT offer at your firm discourage you from doing so? It's understood that the economy's tough, the bank where you're working hasn't exactly had the best summer from a performance or publicity standpoint, and you have two VP's who are willing to vouch for you. As you said, only one person in your group got a returning offer. If I were you, I'd start reaching out to bankers and banking HR at other BB's and see what is out there. I understand your disappointment in not getting a FT offer, but most of your other classmates are in the same boat. Just keep your head up, stick to your story, realize that your not getting an offer is a function of the economy, and keep at it. Just be tenacious about your job search targeting the top banks and MM's equally -- you'll be surprised what a little tenacity and persistence can get you in this field. You were determined enough to get a summer analyst position even in spite of there not being much recruiting at your non-target school, so why let your guard down now? Keep at it and things will work out.
Also, pay no attention to anything globaldealmakr says. He has no idea what he's talking about.
Glad I wasn't the only one that smelled the absolute bullshit coming out of globaldealmaker. Because people can really waltz right into MBB. What an idiot.
Are you going to be a senior in the Fall? Given the location in your profile, there has to be at least a boutique in the area that will let you intern there during the school year and hopefully you'll get a full time offer from that. As long as you are planning on doing banking for long term, you don't have to start working at a BB. Take a front office job at a boutique and see how it goes from there. After a while, you can decide if you want to stay there or move to a BB which should definitely be easier based on experience.
If you're sure you want to do banking long term, it's not the end of the world if you don't start out at a BB. At least you have a BB internship on your resume.
ok so given the current market, what's the likelihood of finding a BB job for people without offers?
If you've got great grades, I would check out LSE Masters in Finance, Oxford Masters in Financial Economics, and Cambridge Masters in Finance. The problem with US school's is that there are literally zero legit Finance Masters degrees. Even Princeton, which is near impossible to get into, will not give you access to Investment banking front office. The Ivies and other top schools(Stanford, Berk) that do have some finance type masters are all Financial Engineering programs designed for math and computer geeks which never place front office. In the UK, they have schools with good 1 year programs which can land you in BB IB/MBB type positions. MBA is obviously out of the question. So if you do end up in a jam and without an offer this fall, you might want to take the GMAT and at least apply.
Also, be proud of what you have accomplished, especially from a non-target. Don't beat yourself up about it, your still in great shape. From your post, I gather that you have an honest desire to work in banking for good reasons and not exit ops and with your SA experience you know what that entails. I'm certain that if you can land an interview you have an excellent chance. Keep your head up, stay motivated, push to get a full-time offer, and develop a solid backup plan which will get you into banking in the near future should you be unable to get in this Fall.
How important is summer internship to get into a BB fulltime (Originally Posted: 03/01/2007)
How important is your junior year summer internship if you want to get into a BB full time?
will make your life a WHOLE LOT easier
the whole reason why summer internships are so competitive is because if you intern at a top tier BB, or hell, any BB over summer...your chances of landing a great full time offers are very high.
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