What did you learn from your MBA?
This might just be a liberal arts bias, but my impression is that an MBA is just a credential and doesn't really provide much valuable training.
For the MBA holders among us:
Do you think you learned more from your MBA than you would have during two years in industry?
Did it improve the way you think, write, or argue?
Lesson Learned: Go to a top school. If not, the value becomes hit or miss. I say this as I did not go to a top school, and although I learned a few things in the sense of how to better organize my thoughts and be more persuasive, I don't think I really learned anything more than what I learned in Undergrad or that I could have gained from the 2 year work experience.
FYI I've finished the first year of a 2 year MBA program and currently interning at a Oil and Gas company.
What do you consider a top school? M7? Top 15? just out of curiosity
MBA's aren't about obtaining technical skills. The MBA classes that I took were essentially a joke--introductory at best. That being said, a good name and network is quite valuable.
Is it possible to learn something really useful (MBA) (Originally Posted: 06/05/2014)
For a person with substantial business background, is there any value in the MBA academic experience itself, and not networking/vacation/access to jobs? I would imagine the curriculum they teach to the engineers and TFAers is not going to be worthwhile for a consulting/banking/whatever type who has been doing financial modeling and market studies for 80 hours a week for the last few years.
Besides the hardcore quant-finance-type stuff, are there any top programs or concentrations within top programs out there that can really improve your professional value? Like maybe a focus on some particular industry with associated in-depth seminars, realistic case studies and internship recruiting? What about the Kellogg's MMM? Any schools that allow you to cross-register for PhD-level classes outside the b-school? Other ideas?
I got MS'd last time I said this, but my experience was that I gained 0 knowledge during b-school.
As someone who went to b-school with a pretty academic focus, I struggle with this question pretty frequently (context: finishing up my first year tomorrow). I think it is all about attitude.
First, I can definitely say that I learned quite a lot, but not in every class and not without putting in a good deal of work for it. I did undergrad finance, consulting and then a start-up, so this wasn't my first time pricing options or segmenting customers. I could have passed without learning much, but I actually did all the readings, put in real effort on the projects, etc. Basically: being a nerd paid off because I retain the stuff, but also had a cost (e.g., I did not make it to every big weekday party).
Second, don't discount the potential benefit of the "leadership"-type courses, which you may or may not consider to be "academic." I grew a ton and am much more confident and interpersonally adept. Talking to peers at other schools (and even my own school), it is clear that there are a variety of experiences. Some of it is luck, some of it is about having the attitude to take the silly "soft skills" stuff seriously (and it is easy to write it off).
Worth it? Yes. But unlike undergrad, where I felt like I had to learn to survive, it is easy to slide through b-school without learning anything. You've got to want to put in the effort to seek out the learning. And, as always, your mileage may vary.
As an msf student, I took some communications/leadership classes to balance my workload and get exposure to different skills. I thought I was great at communicating and presenting - I suck.
It was very valuable to learn from the experiences of the mba students. Now is it worth $150k to justify attending full time? That’s an individual decision. However, I would argue that qualitative skills are equally important to your success the further up the ladder you go.
I agree with @"brj". Each school will offer classes that are outside you're experience and will teach you a lot. Some have different curriculum requirements so you should find the one that fits your needs best. The idea that you can't learn anything in Bschool if you were a banker/consultant before is completely inaccurate.
It's worth mentioning that at bschool they expect some level of maturity and aren't going to force learning on you like undergrad. So it's up to you of you how much you learn or not.
Does anyone know if it's possible to use PhD-level courses for some of the electives? Would be nice. Especially if one could opt out of basic accounting etc bullshit, take only the more interesting/practical MBA classes and use the rest of the credits to study with the doctoral students.
Depends on the program.
Some programs have set classes that you take with your group at least for the first year (HBS model) and others let you design your own (Booth model). I would imagine that Booth would let you take PhD classes though. Probably best to get confirmation from someone at the different schools though
At a top program, I promise there are MBA courses that will challenge you no matter what you background is. At Booth, all the top profs like Fama, Cochrane, Murphy, Sapra, etc teach MBA and Ph.D classes. Unless you have deep theoretical knowledge of econ/finance/whatever and some serious chops in calc/stats, hanging with the Ph.D's would be incredibly difficult. That said, the classes would be open to you...
Tossing in another vote for actually learning something during my MBA. My bullet points: 1) I learned more from theoreticians and academics than any of the practioners who taught me. You can pick up all the "this is how it's done in the real world" stuff when you start your job. You may even have that knowledge. But the academics give you great insight into what are the underlying forces that drive that behavior, does that behavior make sense, might there be better ways to do things, what are the challenges that keep things from being done the way a sound model would predict etc. I think that the ex-bankers actually benefit the most from this stuff, because they come in thinking they understand finance pretty well, only to occasionally have their mind blown by how small their window on the world really was. 2) Tons of opportunities to cross register for PhD classes, classes in the college, law classes. Lots of people do this 3) Don't discount the implicit learning that takes place. B-school is an opportunity to work with different types of people with different knowledge sets and backgrounds, all in a pretty low-risk environment. You might not be able to list out what you learned that makes you a better leader or group manager, but I think most people come away being better at these things because of their b-school experience. 4) I think at the end of the day, the experience is what you make of it, which has a lot to do with your motivations. If your MBA goal is to re-brand, network, and career change, and that is what you devote your time to, maybe you won't learn as much. If you make an explicit goal to walk away a better educated person, then you will.
Seems like the guys who went to Booth really liked their academic experience there.
@snakeoil Which makes sense, schools attract people who like what they offer. Booth's selling point, at-least partially, is it quantitatively heavy classes and flexible curriculum. Booth probably focuses on its curriculum more than any other school I can think of, except maybe UVA, so it should come as no surprise Boothies like the academic experience.
I'm the opposite. I've had enough of an academic experience in college. I want to go to the least academic/GND program in the Top 20.
@snakeoil I'm in the same boat. I had the intense finance undergrad experience at Stern. It was a 4 year program, so I've taken most business school classes already. Haven gone through banking interviews back in the day, I know how little of what we learn is useful for the job (and the little that is useful, is the soft skills). I wanted a fun school with the opposite culture of Stern, along with strong recruiting in consulting (industry I want to go into).
I literally didn't even know if Kellogg was case study based or not until after I got in, because academics was such a low importance item. My order, was 1) consulting recruiting 2) culture 3) rank 4) compensation 5) lack of stern-like finance people 6) scholarship 7) location... I don't even know where I'd put academics since I cared so little.
But that's the point I'm highlighting: schools attract people who want what they have to offer. Booth attracts people who want the academic experience, so if you're someone who doesn't want that, it probably won't be as positive of an experience as the people in this thread had.
You know how I tend to look at schools? A casual LinkedIn search.
And let me tell you, I have NOT been impressed with the profiles of FT Stern MBA's. In addition, I have worked with Stern UG's during my summer internships - and I was left with a similar impression.
Now of course, my sample size is very limited, and I'm sure there are tons of Stern UG's and MBA's who do exceptionally well like you, but when I hear Stern, I always think mechanical assembly line for low quality mass production.
I hated Stern undergrad (I loved NYU...just all the non-stern classes and people), I'd definitely agree with you. It was filled with sociopaths with poor social skills. I've heard the MBA program is better, but definitely wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick.
Was engineering undergrad (had no finance or accounting knowledge), did consulting for about 4 years and definitely learned a lot of finance, accounting and industry stuff during MBA. If you don't have the necessary background, it helps.
What do you learn in the MBA program that you don't as a bachelors in business degree? (Originally Posted: 09/21/2016)
What do they teach you at the MBA level that they don't if you only have a bachelors in business degree or related field?
What they teach may be similar if not identical (using the same case studies), but what you learn will be different - and at times drastically.
The difference is the context that comes with experience which MBAs have. For example, the takeaways you get from a case in a marketing class can be deeper and more profound because it's not purely an academic exercise - it's rooted in the experiences of those in the classroom, even if they have no exposure to the company/industry in the case (example: a software engineer may have no experience as a brand manager at P&G that is being discussed in the case, but the engineer has worked on enough project teams at work to draw parallels about how his/her team experience may be relevant in understanding how decisions are made within a company that go beyond just the theoretical concepts/formulas being taught in class). Simply put, it's the collective years of experience that the MBA students have in that classroom which can yield more practical and even deeper insights into the realities of actually executing what is being mentioned in the case - in ways that an undergrad cannot fully appreciate simply because they don't have that experience.
Also, the learning process is different. In undergrad biz programs, they tend to be more lecture based. MBA programs are more team-based, discussion oriented, case method learning.
An undergrad can learn how to do a DCF in finance class, but the MBA student who also learns that has the benefit of work experience (not necessarily in finance) to know how to better use that DCF when making decisions - they can see the greys that an undergrad may only see in black-and-white.
Which comes back to the chief difference between undergrad biz vs. MBA. The undergrad degree is focused more on teaching raw analytical concepts and tools to prepare you for entry level positions. The MBA is more focused on teaching grads how to make better decisions based on these very concepts and tools (since the post-MBA jobs while still relatively junior are up the chain of command).
I agree with all and would add Classmates as a big factor too
MBAs are good for one thing and one thing only. Networking and gaining access to their recruitment pipe-line. PERIOD
MBA is only good if you are going to a top-5 program or are able to do it part time. For most people, the biggest benefit is the network and the "good excuse" of not working for a couple of years. I don't think the education is any different than undergrad, but you may be able to apply it/ contextually understanding the concepts since you have actual work experience by that time.
Before committing, you should really do a cost-benefit to figure out if its worth the money/ worth the loss of income for two years/ have a strong understanding of what your exit op is going to be.
What are the top five most important lessons learned in B-School? (Originally Posted: 01/29/2014)
From Quora, the OP asked the following question:
David S. Rose had the following top answer:
I had a finance (M&A analyst) background before and the MBA experience was invaluable. You learn a lot, especially from your peers. People who say they worked in finance and didn't learn anything during their MBA experiences didn't got to a good enough school and wasted their theme there. To mimic the people above, it's only worth it (in my opinion) if you to to a top school though because the recruiting is very different. If you're shooting for a top PE, IB, HF/IM, or Consulting then the school rank/prestige matters. If that isn't you goal then you can expand your selection of schools.
James Raybould provided this answer:
Learning how to Lead: Extracurricular Lessons at Business School (Originally Posted: 06/02/2015)
When I first began applying to business school, I had a very myopic view of what I would learn. I was 27 years old with limited career experience so I incorrectly assumed that my key professional weakness was a lack of technical business knowledge, such as accounting or corporate finance. In business school, I have learned the fundamentals of accounting, how to value early stage companies and strategic frameworks such as Porter’s Five Forces. While these core concepts will serve me well in my future professional endeavors, there were also a number of extracurricular lessons I learned during my program that will help me just as much with my career if not more than what I learned in class.
As I reflect on the past two years, there were a few key skills I learnt outside the classroom. Though not all of these opportunities are explicitly advertised to incoming or prospective students, future business school students should take them into consideration, as they were an important part of my experience:
1) Time Management
The opportunities at a top business school such as London Business School are incredible. Every week presents a variety of exciting choices: learn how to model mergers, see the CEO of Uber speak, help organize a student-led conference, network with alumni or likeminded professionals, explore museums, travel to Greece, learn a British sport such as rugby or cricket, etc. Business school students must learn quickly to manage their time in order to optimize their experience in the program similar to executives running large companies.
2) Communication
When an interviewer asks you to “tell him/her about yourself”, he/she doesn’t care how many brothers or sisters you have. The interviewer wants you to know why you are the best candidate for a particular position in less than two minutes. Through networking, recruiting, and other activities at school, business school students learn how to communicate clearly. Seasoned professionals know (or should know) that when you need help from an extremely busy person, it is important to ask for assistance in a manner that is both succinct and personalized. Business school students can develop their communication skills in the numerous recruiting and networking events they will attend during their program.
3) Leadership
Finally, business school is a place where students can learn to lead. At London Business School, for example, all clubs and related activities are completely student-run. As a second year student, I managed a team of around 15 students who organized the Africa Business Summit. This event cost over $100,000, had over 200 external attendees and would have been impossible for me to organize without the support of my team. I had led small teams and projects before business school, but this was my first real opportunity to manage such a significant undertaking. It was a valuable lesson for me in how to accomplish my goals by working with others and leading teams.
I’m glad that I now know the financial fundamentals so I won’t act like a deer in headlights if I’m asked to forecast future cash flows or sanity check a valuation. However, the skills I learned outside my core curriculum will be just as valuable as I progress through my career.
Isaac Gross is a member of the 2015 MBA class at London Business School. Before coming to London Business School, Isaac worked for the Clinton Health Access Initiative in West Africa and the USA. In Africa, Isaac managed a $10 million HIV medication donation, which provided lifesaving medication to over 50,000 people. He also advised governments on cost reduction strategies. In one instance, he helped Ivory Coast save over $3 million by convincing policy makers to update their HIV treatment protocols and buy medication from low-cost generic manufacturers. Isaac is at London Business School because he wants to transition from public health to development finance. He is on the executive committees of the Africa and Net Impact Clubs at London Business School and enjoys playing golf, tennis and rugby. Isaac graduated from Brown University in 2007 with a Bachelors in Science in Psychology.
I've only been to LBS, so I can't comment on other schools, but there is a huge emphasis on student leadership here. Almost everything on campus (the clubs, professional/cultural treks, conferences, competitions, etc) is student run. I don't know if business schools teach leadership per se, but at LBS, there were certainly a number of opportunities to practice leadership and learn from experience. Whether the students take advantage of them or not is their choice.
In terms of a secret sauce, Henry Mintzberg's book "Simply Managing" has some good thoughts on the subject: http://www.amazon.com/Simply-Managing-What-Managers-Better/dp/1609949234
Cool post. Care to elaborate on the experience of going from living and studying in the US to doing your MBA in London? Expats have always fascinated me.
Thanks! London is a much more international city than anywhere in the US (even NYC), which has a strong influence on the experience. Your classmates come from all over the globe (South America, Asia, Africa, etc). British culture is also shockingly foreign considering both countries speak the same language. If you want to do business internationally, I think a school such as LBS is a great decision. If you want to work in Silicon Valley or on Wall Street, US schools probably have an advantage.
I also just completed my MBA. I agree with your thoughts about the unspoken elements of B-school and found there were plenty of opportunities to showcase leadership skills and time management skills. For me, I thought time management was probably the biggest takeaway from the program. Nice write up.
Glad you enjoyed it! Good luck in the real world!
Doing an MBA for the content / subject matter? (Originally Posted: 05/08/2012)
Anyone in bschool / planning to go who is actually going because they want to "learn business," i.e., actually interested in the content?
When I was weighing options before I received a sponsorship from my employer, I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't do the MBA if I didn't get it paid for by someone else - I had other appealing options available, and couldn't imagine spending $150k to go to school for two years.
Now, with sponsorship in hand, I'm happy to go kill a couple of years at school - hopefully learning something in the process.
I want to differentiate between those doing it to move to a new role vs those actually doing it to learn the content - I totally understand the career-changer mindset.
Why are they mutually exclusive? Is it that far fetched to say you are going to an MBA to learn the content to enable a career switch? I don't think so. In fact I think it's career switchers who most need the content.
That might be true. I work in consulting, and we'll often hire people with no MBA and no business background, though - with the belief we can teach them the "business stuff" they need to know to be successful.
Laboriosam sint minima sunt eos et quae ab quasi. Natus in id aut aut inventore. Voluptas et et ipsa qui sit. Omnis vel numquam neque sit qui. Dolores dolorum id praesentium necessitatibus molestiae. Cum cum odio ex iusto velit eos nesciunt. Et et quia praesentium omnis nihil.
Rerum quis qui et omnis animi fugit. Adipisci eveniet dolores voluptates et. Omnis in aperiam vel voluptatem sit quos ut placeat. Facere alias enim quas tempore itaque labore.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Odio ut aut porro. Autem et quae consequatur possimus laboriosam. Dolorem aut placeat sed. Praesentium magni placeat voluptatem non amet.
Quisquam nobis quis tempora. A ea accusantium vitae.
Placeat sunt omnis eos dolorem nobis illum. Officiis sint ad eos aspernatur amet. Voluptas nihil eos est quis velit. Tempore est dicta consequuntur sed dolores. Corporis quos iusto dolores voluptatem.
Laboriosam ut accusamus voluptatem. Nostrum esse aut et cumque sit. Quam inventore suscipit ullam qui quam quo ut. Natus eos aperiam voluptate earum optio distinctio tenetur sint. Ut ea tempora non quis eius nam architecto. Sunt nobis eveniet enim quibusdam quas.
Inventore quia voluptas tempora delectus asperiores nesciunt. Nemo iure ad et eaque nam. Ut eaque expedita minima aut odio dignissimos sit. Voluptas sed ratione dolores id.
Ut est omnis reprehenderit consequatur repudiandae nesciunt vero deserunt. Corrupti occaecati ut expedita magnam totam. Aut ut rem corporis enim eveniet. Aut quod est est dicta distinctio accusantium.