The BEST long term career in finance (RECOMMENDED)
Everyone on this board is crazed on exit opps, especially the infamous "private equity". The "dream" job (ex. GS TMT, MS M&A) is so that you can use the exp as a stepping stone in your future application to KKR and Blackstone. But for some people such as myself, that's not it.
Fuck moving around from firm to firm because of compensation and prestige. If you hate the hours, why enter that field in the first place?
What I'm looking for is the BEST long term career - the job where i enter as an undergrad, slowly move up the ranks and retire, after having worked there for 30+ years. That means, good enough compensation (mid six figures), and tolerable hours (no banking hours).
WSO, which career within the realm of bulge bracket banks, is the best for this?
I'm currently thinking (in no order of preference):
1. S&T in HK/SINGAPORE (since in the US, regulations are screwing things up for securities)
2. ECM/DCM
3. Citi GTS
4. IB Risk?
What about you WSO, what are your thoughts?
Wouldn't call S&T the best 'long-term career'. I would lean more towards PB/AM. Despite the change in regulation and crackdown on tax havens, e.g. Switzerland, the industry is still very well paid and the hours are incredible (relative to IB).
Do you recommend that as a starting career, or a recommended transition later in one's career? Because from what I've heard, PB(ex. PWM) is pretty much one of the worst places to START one's career.
By whom? An Investment Banker? If that's who told you it's a poor career, then it's obvious why. Don't chase prestige and pure exit opps. You want stability and job security. PWM is exactly that.
PWM fits your description.
I feel like S&T is way too unstable for what you want. It doesn't strike me as a job with very good job security.
Well - what tasks do you enjoy? No single job is going to be great for everyone.
I worked in banking 3 yrs, and there are people who actually really enjoy it, and especially in some niches the hours are much better and the work is more interesting (I was in restructuring). Some of my old bosses are still there, make 300,000 plus in their late 20s early 30s, and are leaving the office by 7 pm (for an idea of comp, my base as a 3rd yr was 80k and bonus was 100k (top bucket) - those numbers have come down a bit since I left, but comp is still very good for age/hours). This is also largely a function of what office/firm/culture you are with - the same job in two different offices/teams can be night and day.
My track is different now, I did grad school and moved to Europe and I'm interviewing now for credit buyside (think distressed investing/private lending etc.) which fits my work style and mindset much better - dive deeply into a credit/company without having to worry too much about what clients think of it. I couldn't stand the wasted hours and bs in banking - losing pitches, pleasing clients, etc. - but on the buyside, every minute you work counts for something, because you either decide to invest or not invest, and not investing in bad credits is just as important as investing in good ones.
I know quite a few people getting to the later stages of the prestigious jobs - working for Bain Capital is still pretty stressful, and actually I think a little boring - the decisions are already made by the time you get involved in a PE deal. Some hedge funds are nightmares to work for (Cerberus), others are dreams (Baupost). But of course the pay can be great in all those jobs.
My advice would be, take a BB analyst program for two yrs if you can get one, or a top consulting gig, because it will open tons of doors and you will learn a ton - and then think long and hard before you take the next job after that, because it will invariably close a ton of doors. I was lucky to do credit and be credit focused, and like the jobs that are now available to me - but I could not at this point work for an equity L/S or merger arb shop for example. I am a credit guy. Luckily it suits me well.
Other careers to consider - I actually found the HR side of banking fun and interesting and pretty well paid - if you can work up to head of recruiting for a good firm, you are having a pretty fun life and making a lot of people pretty happy. Stressful at times, but overall a fun choice. I have met a few BB analysts who did 1-2 yrs as an analyst and then jumped over to HR (they know what to look for in resumes, how to do interviews, etc).
Me, later in life (after finance) I want to advise grad school students on their career/life tracks for a top MBA or policy program (this will be my 80k or so 25 hour a week type job for retirement). This is maybe when I am 50. At that point I also want to learn carpentry, and can probably pay a few bills with that too.
Public/Municipal finance, Healthcare M&A, VC, AM
LOL @ "good enough" compensation being mid six figures.
Sounds like a career in accounting would be good for your needs
What a false argument. Good compensation and tolerable hours are incompatible, unless you are in sales and have a few large accounts.
Which finance career is best for me? (Originally Posted: 09/05/2016)
I am well aware that you can't swing a dead cat on here without hitting endless threads on career advice, both broad and incredibly specific. Despite this I have yet to find much that relates to my current situation, or rather skills, with respect to the world of finance, and have been left to piece together bits and pieces of advice from anywhere I can.
I am a sophomore at a small liberal arts school, but I am almost definitely transferring to a target school after this semester. 3.9 GPA, founder and president of new business fraternity chapter on campus, other resume bullshit blah blah its actually close to irrelevant for my question. I have multiple possible internships lined up (BBH, GS, MS) if all goes well academically and I don't get arrested in the near future, and with that in mind I have started to put intensive thought into exactly how suitable I am for different positions in the finance world. I excel with anything related to English, (36 on ACT for all qualitative sections) interpersonal skills/communication, and have been told from birth I should follow in pops' footsteps and go to a top law school based on my strengths, but Tucker Max told me it was soul-sucking when I read his book in eight grade, so that's out. With that said my quantitative skills are not impressive (30 on the ACT with a TON of prep/tutoring) I genuinely love all things finance related, and am willing to work until death, yet am unsure as to whether i'll simply be fucked competing with top target school grads. Obviously I disqualify myself from obviously math intensive fields in finance (who wants to be Jared Vennett's bitch boy quant anyways) and have narrowed it down to jobs in PWM, IB, and wherever else I could go. M&A inside of the previously mentioned concentrations also sounded appealing, yet despite what I thought would be great for someone with a deal-making knack with great interpersonal skills, I have read it requires extensive math knowledge.
Right now I see myself (God-willing) landing a junior analyst job wherever, handling the modeling and grunt work well enough and seeing where the wind takes me from there, but is that even achievable with someone who isn't very good at math? Thanks for all the help
HCM
salary potential anywhere close to other ws jobs?
Is sales the best job in Finance? (Originally Posted: 09/27/2015)
This is my question: Is sales the best job in finance?
Please note, sales can refer to customer management, investment consulting, etc
In my experience, sales seems like the best job out there. You can make $1mm annually (I know several people that make well over this) with your main job function simply talking all day.
Sales guys get to eat out constantly and play golf. Sales guys aren't ultimately responsible if an investment goes badly.
Sure, it can be VERY hard building a pipeline and getting deals, but once you're established life is on easy street.
Why go through life being a slave to a desk when you be in sales?
Thoughts?
This is a bit like asking "what's the best length of string?"
Sales is much harder than you make it sound. It takes a certain type of person to want to convince people all day to do something. The guys I know who do financial sales are satisfied but also it can be grueling. It's hard to build relationships.
Yes. The career progression to the $1MM level is long and arduous. There is so much more to RM (Relationship Management) than your golf game, in any areas: commercial, investment or PWM.
Go ask a young salesperson if their job is the best on the street. The grass is always greener but they'll be the first to tell you that building a client base in a post-recession low commission environment is incredibly tough. There's not a lot of young salespeople killing it right now. If you can hang in there for a few years and pick up one or two big accounts through attrition (because you're cheaper than the MD next to you) and luck, a nice living could be ahead of you. But again, it's a very tough environment for young guys in sales right now. A lot of great people but not a ton of commission dollars flowing to the sellside.
I second this. Anyone who thinks sales is fun is deluding themselves.
90% of Billionaires are salesmen first and industrialist/financier/developer second.
But there are a lot of 45 year olds getting grounded into shreds in financial sales organizations because they're not at the top of their class.
Sales just ain't what it used to be. Low commissions and shrinking spreads are what's happening now.
Rank finance jobs by compensation/lifestyle (Originally Posted: 04/10/2010)
I am an upcoming Junior entering finance and starting to get my feet wet with a few internships. I was wondering from your experience and what you've heard from friends/family, if you could offer a break down of the following IB, Asset Management, global markets, private wealth management, sales and trading, or any other common analyst, entry level divisions I'm missing here
in terms of
Hours: Compensation: X-factor:(risk, job security, travel, stimulating work, exit opps., etc...) And also if there are a lot of positions relative to the other roles(like if the IB branch of banks is usually larger and recruits more interns/analysts than the PWM branch)
I understand these qualifications differ based on the firm, the person and the time but I'm just looking for a general picture
try researching this yourself
Do a search on this website. There are like a dozen threads that cover this and it's way to much to talk about again without a more specific question.
Also, Global Markets is usually the name for a banks S&T operations. Capital Markets (ECM, DCM, LevFin) is usually under IBD, but is sometimes separate (BAML has it separated).
For Front Office positions:
IBD: Sector Group---TMT, Retail, ect Capital Markets (mentioned above) Product Group---M&A---also another name for Capital Market activities.
AM: Investment Management---deal with large institutions Private Bank--deal with high net worth individuals (10 million+) PWM--deal with wealthy, but not super rich people
S&T Equity Stocks and Equity Derivatives
FICC Everything else...FX, rates, Munis, treasuries, HY debt, Corp debt, MBS, commodities, ect.
There is also plenty of back office positions..like internal finance, operations, tech support, risk management, legal, compliance, ect.
Go to:
http://campus.efinancialcareers.com/
scroll to the bottom and click on "financial sectors expalined"
also check out this guide. It for the UK, but its still a great resource. They have one for the US, it basically has the same info, but is more US specific. I could not find the US on online.
http://www.efinancialcareers.co.uk/pdf/CIFM0809Web_UK-DE.pdf
Need advice on which Career Path to Follow in Finance (Originally Posted: 08/22/2013)
I am now a third year undergraduate at a non target University studying Bsc Economics. I have been influenced by the glitz of working in an investment bank and upon my visit to Bank of America Meryll Lynch and Barclays Centre in London and talking to various staff, I felt like I really enjoyed the working environment and the networking opportunities in an investment bank and would love to work there in the future. However, initially I had my mind set on the following roles due to a couple of skills I feel I have that is suited to these roles, whilst paying less attention to the skills I am not so good at. I always had a fear that I might not be suitable for these roles: IB and equity research because literally I think I'm too hyperactive for these roles, and could possibly be suffering from ADHD and I also am probably not as technical as IB requires
After assessing my abilities honestly, I believe I would be suited to Private Wealth Management, Sales if I worked in a bank. If I didn't work in a bank, I would be interested in being a Finance News Anchor for big networks like CNN, Bloomberg, CNBC and these would also suit both my skills and personality.However, I am scared that if I tailor my career path solely to that of a News Anchor, I would be very limited and also choosing a path that would make me seem less intelligent :/ (I don't know why I care about this)...so perhaps, it would be better to try and break into an Investment Bank doing through PWM or Sales, before applying for jobs as an anchor.
Now, I am confused with this plan, which area PWM or Sales is likely to be more useful towards a job, for example as a Bloomberg Anchor, my guess would be private wealth management and which masters degree to do..do I need a broadcast journalism master/communications to be an anchor? would I need a masters degree related to Private Wealth Management to work in an Investment Bank.
In the mean time, I will also try to get work experience in one or more of these fields.
What are your advice to me, and please feel free to correct me if you believe I am going about things in the wrong way.
Thank You and sorry if this was difficult to read.
I could be wrong, but I think that you may be looking for advice in the wrong place if you want to end up as a news anchor- you probably need to talk to news anchors or people in similar professions rather than people on WSO. I also don't think you'd actually need to work in finance first to be a financial news anchor if you have a finance/economics background and can understand what's going on. Again, I could be wrong, but that's my best guess.
I've never seen/heard finance people serve as anchors on CNBC/CNN, just as guest commentators. I think WSO is the wrong place if you're looking to get into a career in media. As for PWM, ML & UBS have solid reps for training & access to quality research/resources.
How to choose which career in finance to pursue (Originally Posted: 03/08/2016)
How do you choose what career in finance to pursue? There are so many options and I was told if you are in the mid to back office it's hard to move to the front office(customer facing).
Internships are the best since they're short trial periods. The only way to truly know what a job is like is working in that field (or a tangentially related one). That said, a good start would be to do informational interviews with people in different roles. Ask them what a typical day is like (if there is one), opportunities for promotions, what the skillset requires, what they've learned, etc. Once you narrow it down to the fields that sound interesting, that's when you pursue internships.
Thanks I appreciate that. That was very insightful; and helpful.
Need advice on which finance career (Originally Posted: 10/11/2012)
I am 33, have just completed an MSc in management and finance after getting a good economics degree, having done a few sales and administration jobs before that. Due to a car crash during my degree I couldn't do any internships etc. When I started my degree I intended to be a trader thinking I would be good at and enjoy it but now I am unsure and am looking at other things. I want to do something I'll be good at and that suits me and hope someone can give me advice.
I can apply maths but I am not good enough to use it creatively and sometimes can't easily grasp tricky maths.
I love in-depth strategy games and spent far too much time playing them! Efficiency, looking ahead, creating strategies, keeping concentration for long periods and being able to determine what is and isn't important to spend time and resources on are the things I am really good at here.
I very level-headed and think things through before acting on them, looking at all aspects carefully before making a decision. I sometimes find working with others distracting and d usually do better to focus on the task alone.
Not bad social skills but I generally prefer to be in the background listening. I enjoy a challenge, succeeding, solving complex problems (am good at that too), completing tasks but dislike very repetitive tasks. The careers I have been considering over the last year are financial analysts, insurance underwriter, management analyst, Asset Management, investment analyst, stockbroker, mergers and acquisition, trader and actuary. Now I have just finished my master I have to pick one!
I would really appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to tell me the kind of job I can apply my planning and being able to see important factors abilities to!
The best sales job in finance (Originally Posted: 01/31/2015)
What is it?
I know a very open ended question but, for a website that has so many different topics covered, I don't believe this has been discussed or at least not weighed-in on heavily. To throw out some ideas, I would start with various product sales that would fall under S&T (institutional equities, mortgage/securitized products, credit, etc.), IB coverage banking, mutual fund wholesaling, prime services, PE fundraising / distribution, etc. The list could go on and on...but would do you guys think the best true "sales" job in the industry is? All things considered (pay, hours, perks, excitement, etc.)
Interested in hearing mainly from people who currently hold or once held the position
Probably somewhere in FICC sales.
Financial advising if you can make it
Which Job In Finance (In your opinion) Is the Most Exciting? (Originally Posted: 12/19/2016)
What job in the world of finance is the most exciting? An exciting job would meet the following criteria: -Not the same routine everyday -Somewhat enjoyable -A lot of interactions with people -Minimal paperwork
Thank You!
Job description sounds like reception desk.
Finance Career with Best Hours and Fair Travelling? (Originally Posted: 04/28/2015)
What are some of the careers in finance with best balance of hours and travelling?
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