Is this another fraud by Villanova?
@TNA" @Esuric" @KKS" any thoughts?
So I called the business school of Villanova and inquired about 2014 MSF placements and 2014 class profile(there is no class of 2014 profile on their website but there are placements posted for class 14'). The guy on the other side didn't tell me much about the statistics of class of 2014. He said kids went to work for companies that are mentioned on the website. And also said that they typically have 30 or more than 30 kids matriculate. Something is not right though...about their placements. I think they're lying again about placements, like one of their schools did before and were fined. 1) There are only 18 firms mentioned on the web for class of 14 and 2 firms extended offers to more than one graduate(that's 2 each), meaning that only 18 kids were employed within few months of graduation(out of class of 30 which is an assumption, could be more than 30). That's 60% employment rate!!! Where did the other 40% of class go? If they're not hiding something, why don't they post their class profiles? Secondly, they do not say the total number of graduates, they just say 100 percent were employed and 27% went to IB and 22% to AM which is unbelievable! Their placements report is vague and not detailed. They must be hiding something. If I'm wrong, correct me please.
PS Below is their link to placements of class of 14 and the guy told me that these were all the companies that kids went to work for without giving me details
http://www1.villanova.edu/villanova/business/graduate/specializedprogra…msf/professional_development/placement.html
1) Law school reported incorrect GPA and LSTA scores to the ABA which factored into their rankings. The people who did this were immediately fired and the control of the school was put under another schools dean. Two people who I knew very well were fired because of this. Employment stats were not faked.
2) I am looking at the alumni list now. I don't know what the career office tracks or the timing with things so I cannot comment on what you were told. My information is not dated in the sense that I do not note at what time someone gets a job or anything like that. I am the MSF alumni chair and only track where people got jobs, where they are now and their contact information for events and reunions. I created this list when I attended and have updated it ever since.
Class of 2014
25 graduating students 18 placements (I haven't updated the list in a couple months so maybe this has changed)
Companies that have hired 2014 students
1) Vanguard - Data Analyst - Institutional Sales 2) PwC - Risk Assurance 3) Big 4 - Valuation (name withheld) 4) Bloomberg 5) JDA Consulting 6) Real Estate Firm - (name withheld, but it is a good firm in NYC) 7) JT Asset Management (China) 8) Harding - Investment Associate 9) Consulting Firm 10) Chatham Financial - Hedging Consultant 11) JPM - MO 12) Stifel Nicholas - ER 13) Delaware Investments - Fixed Income 14) Boutique IB 15) Delaware Investments - Credit Research 16) J Pearson - Financial Analyst 17) FTI Consulting 18) Moodys - Associate Analyst
About half of the people that I have blank on the excel I have are international students. One guy is doing consulting of some sort, but I don't know the specific name so I do not include it on the sheet. Two other people I have lost contact with or haven't had time to email.
This list matches what is on the site. There are a few names on the site that I don't have on my list which means the career office probably has slightly more up to date info than my sheet. I'll go back and confirm and add this later.
As for class profiles, the site needs to be updated. I've seen brochures with the most recent one so I don't know what the deal is. I am sure you could get it if you asked.
@TNA I'm a bit worried as I see no IB placement, although I had a current student email me saying he got an offer at some small boutique.
Edit: nvm I see the boutique
Wait, these are last year's placements. This year has more ER placements. That one IB placement you're talking about is good. More lower MM than boutique.
Honestly I'm in this to get a solid job that will set me up well for a possible MBA, I don't care if it is consulting, banking (corporate or investment), ER, corp fin, AM, Advisory, or Valuations. The question I have for you TNA, is why doesn't Nova have more corp fin placements at well known companies?
Nova has placed people at comcast in their core program, J&J in their FLDP. People work at Siemens also. I don't have the list in front of me so I don't know all the places.
Honestly, I don't know why more students apply for those jobs. PNC recruits for their CIB program, HSBC recruits for their CMMT program. All the F50 companies come. I just think people get this banking or bust idea. I post jobs on the Facebook group routinely and get no inquiries.
People do what they want I guess. If you want F500 you'll have virtually no msf competition, I know that.
Also why is OSU not highly regarded on this board? Their placements are outstanding in corp fin and investment management. Shouldn't they be considered in the same level as UT and Nova?
People on wso only give a shit about banking, hence why OSU isn't regarded. Whenever someone emails me I ask a handful of simple questions which impact my advice. If you say you want only F500 and don't like NYC I start talking about OSU, Santa Clara, Johns Hopkins, UIUC, etc. Tons of good schools, with programs that are cheap that can get you into any number of good, rotational jobs.
So TNA, you are officially affiliated with Villanova's graduate business school. Don't you think that it's inappropriate for someone in your position to give advise on this matter considering a potential conflict of interest? Is your position salaried?
Alumni chair isn't an official title. I am not a salaried employee. There is no conflict of interest.
I'm sure WUSTL has some alumni that go to events or talk to students. I've met them and I'm sure nikki talks with them. It's fairly common and I've seen it at all the schools I talk with. Florida is a great example also.
This is the OP. I'll tell you what. TNA does have a conflict of interest when it comes to Nova. Monkey shitted me and had me blocked immediately. I asked a similar question about USC regarding their rude behavior and vagueness. TNA commented on it without making much of a fuss. Now that I asked a question about Nova, this guy here monkey shitted me and had me blocked even though this was an honest question. NEVER ask TNA about Nova. Any other school is fine.
Secondly, one can simply not compare UT MSF to Nova's. They have the brand name, are more experienced(their MBA and other popular specialized degrees). I've phoned more than 8 schools and and the best ones, that cooperated and were nice, are CMC, UT, Vanderbilt, Duke, MIT, & LBS. I'm not even going to consider applying to Nova or USC later this year.
Thirdly, I do believe they were lying. 1) why not mention 18 out 25 students got placed? Why do they say 100%? What does that indicate? You're saying that the website is outdated is the reason why class profile is not there. Wait a sec, if they could upload recent vague placements, why not also upload recent class profile? It doesn't take more than 15 mins. And you're telling me that they probably didn't have time to? WTF? Also, if they really placed 18/25, that is 72% rate which is not nearly as good as UT's or even OSU's! Why say 100% on website instead of 72%? Unless they wanted to mislead applicants, there is absolutely no reason for not mentioning 72%. Also TNA, what if the remaining 28% are mostly internationals who couldn't find jobs and went back to their countries? I think you should shove you pride up you ass.
Lastly, it was admission and other statistics data FRAUD! Look it up. It wasn't a mistake. Villanova is prolly paying for attracting applicants.
I rest my case. Esuric
Thanks to Esuric who woke me up before I really fell those placement stats on web. They're obviously hiding something
Lol wut.
You used to go by Fargo. You were banned from the site after spamming everyone your profile. I didn't block you or anyone.
And where did I say Nova didn't have time? I don't know what they are doing. I said I've been busy and haven't been focusing on alumni stuff. Me, not them.
And sorry kid, international students have trouble with jobs. I tell them that all the time. Even MIT bifurcates their placements.
@TNA" , Internationals have trouble finding jobs yes but you have to admit that Nova's OCR is terrible. And that difficulty arises if one has problem speaking English or is not sociable. Most internationals at vandy & CMC have jobs by graduation in the US. I've spoken to number of international alumni.
All I'm saying is they tried to hide their poor placements. Again, you must have reported it since there is no single obscene word in the original post or maybe Patrick is your close pal or maybe both.
It's been years since I graduated, but I thought ocr was fine. That being said, relying on OCR isn't the best thing to do.
As for Nova and internationals, I've never seen a class either more than say 30% international. If that happens I'd be the first one to make a stink about it. I'm a Nova grad but I am close with every program and love the MSF degree. I think it's unfair to international students when a program goes over a 30% threshold. I routinely tell international students to be prepared to go back to their home country because it's hard to get a Visa. Many close friends of mine are dealing with it and I understand it well.
Listen, if you think Nova sucks don't go. The Schools you mentioned are good and do very well. I like Claremont a lot and they have done great things.
Calm, dude What's so much about job stats? it's just some condensed details from a spreadsheet. every school's career office will package the stats to appeal future students and recruiters as much as possible--it may be a fraud (like UMKC) but much less likely. I did have contacts with Nova's program before, and they appear to be defensive about the stats--not surprisng because most of thost masters don't have a long record yet.
plus if you can go to MIT, WUSTL or Vandy sort of MSF, ask @TNA" and he'll probably say--go to those!
My point is that some schools will have better MSF/MFin--their undergrads and/or MBA program builds that reputation for you MSFs to be recruited. Nova has good undergrad but it isn't as hard to get in as the others--plus their MBA is unranked.
don't think it is true just because people or data says so--do your own research
What infuriated me was his defensive behavior. To top it all off, he actually monkey shitted me and reported me so they could block me even though it was an honest question and applicants need to know the truth. He wanted to silence me. BTW, no other school fabricates their placements. Or not mention something that needs to be mentioned. Vanderbilt has the most detailed reports.
I can't believe TNA is putting up with this relentless trolling. Lol. Do you know what fraud is? Purposeful dissemination of misinformation in order to deceive, since they have no info regarding % of students hired then I don't see how they are being fraudulent and faking. As long as the companies listed actually hired class of 2014 MSF students I don't see the problem. The fact is you came here to troll, recieved the info you asked for instead, and proceeded to make another account to troll. Looking at your previous accounts 5:20+ silver banana to monkey shit ratio I can tell you're just a troll.
If you add up placement by function you get 100%. That isn't to say 100% of students get placed.
Additionally, all programs base placements off students reporting and looking for jobs. MSF programs deal with students who aren't as seasoned as MBA students. Because of this placements tend to take longer because you have people suffering from 5th year syndrome.
Make sure you consider that as well. Schools provide education, alumni, recruiting and opportunity. It's up to the student to pursue and execute.
@TNA" I was also looking for this 100% number he keeps talking about
both numbers are like that on the OP's link to Nova site. it is meant to be a fact and a simple logical fallacy---implying the job numbers are good, because the 100% pie only includes employed grads, not the unemployed.
It's almost like a GMAT question--is someone stupid enough to think that he'll have 27% chance for IB if he enters Nova MSF (not you of course)
I mean listen, placements aren't 100%. From what I have seen over the years it's usually like 70% 3 months out. Maybe more, maybe less. You have some international students who take a little longer to find work, you have some students who didn't get serious until later and you have a few people who just were unlucky. Most programs have a similar experience.
I just don't get the vitriol. If I was researching a program and felt a little unease I'd just go elsewhere. No need to freak out about it. And I think we can put the fraud garbage to bed. It's a serious accusation and I've seen first hand how the school does not mess around with that. Trust me. No adcom would risk their job over career placements for msf programs. These programs augment the bottom line, not drive it. MBA, JD, UG, these are the main revenue generators for a school. MSF programs are just a nice revenue kicker.
This means nothing to me, but it got me curious. First time on Nova's MSF site, where does it say 100% placement? I see the other stats you speak of, but I honestly did not find anywhere that stated this 100% figure.
EDIT: Just noticed this was already asked and brought up before I finished. They could place 3 out of 600 students, the pie still has to equal 100%, that says nothing about overall placement. To make that connection is very poor logic, if thats the case
I agree. When I read the placement data, I assumed it was a breakdown by job function among students that were placed. I didn't associate the placement numbers to overall placement. I can see where this would be misleading, but it's certainly not fraud.
Thank you. Anyone thinking otherwise has a very poor ability to interpret data. Its not a hard concept to grasp and calling it fraud is simply wrong.
They didn't mention 72%. So anyone looking at them will assume they accounted for all their class. The fucker on the phone also told me all of them got placed.
So now the guy who tried helping you is a fucker? Like the USC people also? I sense a pattern.
Anyone? Looks like you're the only one who inferred the 100% as everyone else is confused where you got that from.
such a long grind with a tool--i'm out
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