Is this unethical? And chance for the future

I am a sophomore (rising junior) at Berkeley Industrial Engineering and Operations Research with a GPA of 3.4. My goal is to get into S&T. Obviously knowing the fact that my gpa is lower than the average applicant and being a sophomore, I only got a trading technology internship at Barclays Commodities supporting the front office.

The way Barclays is structured, the commodities arm is an individual entity. And therefore I am actually employed as a summer analyst in technology by Barclay Capital Commodities Corp.

Being in a group that supports the front office, my whole group sits on the trade floor side by side with the traders. We don't do much programming but mostly support tasks. For me, that means tie-outs, regression models to match the models in the system, greek calculation to match greeks in the system.

Is it unethical to mask the fact that I was in technology and completely omit the technology aspect in my description to mislead and make it sound like I was a summer analyst in S&T on my resume (assuming all the detail is correct)?
For example

Barclays Capital - Barclays Capital Commodities Corp
Summer 2009
Title: Summer Analyst
Directly supported traders in the trading process
Performed tie-outs to match PNL report
Performed Greeks Calculation to ensure correct output from the systems
Created different types of models, mostly regressions

Note: All the details are true. I did all the tasks I described. My official title is summer analyst. Sure, I omitted all the technology aspect (including the technology program name, the tech stuff I do) but no one says you have to list everything on your resume. Am I right about this?

My questions are:
1) Is this ethical?
2) Would doing this help me get an interview in the coming junior summer?
3) If this is not ethical, does the fact that supporting the front office traders make me a better candidate than a pure tech guy programming (at the bank)?
4) Do I stand a chance for S&T next summer?

 

I personally believe it's fine.

If they asked which group you were in, then tell them

I don't think you need to put EVERYTHING you did / have on the resume, cause that would look really ugly for most of the summer analyst.

IS this ethical ? No, you didn't lie, you were the summer analyst. However, interviewers will know you were in tech group during the interview and feel a bit " cheated"

Doing this will most definitely help.

It does make you a better candidate, but why are you comparing yourself to pure tech?

What ground would I get fired for? It's not like I made up anything? I just omitted details, just like you can omit the fact that you worked at say.. Mcdonalds at some point in your life on your resume, no?

I mean my employer technically is Barclays Capital Commodities Corp and my official title is technically summer analyst. I did do all the stuff I listed in my pointers. So that doesnt count as lying does it?

 
Best Response

Don't listen to these fucktards.

The whole recruiting process is about selectively disclosing the best possible info about yourself.

Describe your ACTUAL experiences. If you happen to describe them in a manner which implied you worked in another division, so be it. This will get you an interview at best. Which is initially the goal. Once you get in for an interview, they will ask alot of questions about your experiences, DO NOT LIE. They will most likely figure out where you actually worked, once your in the interview you can't be misleading anymore. But you can selectively choose the experiences you speak about.

Take some of you bankers, what did you internships consist of? Largely dog shit. You didn't put this on your resume. You didn't describe your experiences as "created a catalog of the group's prior deal experience in order to streamline future pitch book making process for full-time analysts." No, you put down experiences which imply all you did during your internship was work on live deals, listen in on client calls, etc... When in reality you were on 1 client call for 1 minute and your live deal experience consisted of spreading a bunch of already selected comps. But is that how you describe it, no.

 
Marcus_Halberstram:
Don't listen to these fucktards.

The whole recruiting process is about selectively disclosing the best possible info about yourself.

Describe your ACTUAL experiences. If you happen to describe them in a manner which implied you worked in another division, so be it. This will get you an interview at best. Which is initially the goal. Once you get in for an interview, they will ask alot of questions about your experiences, DO NOT LIE. They will most likely figure out where you actually worked, once your in the interview you can't be misleading anymore. But you can selectively choose the experiences you speak about.

Take some of you bankers, what did you internships consist of? Largely dog shit. You didn't put this on your resume. You didn't describe your experiences as "created a catalog of the group's prior deal experience in order to streamline future pitch book making process for full-time analysts." No, you put down experiences which imply all you did during your internship was work on live deals, listen in on client calls, etc... When in reality you were on 1 client call for 1 minute and your live deal experience consisted of spreading a bunch of already selected comps. But is that how you describe it, no.

I'm with Marcus. This is fine, and will definitely help in landing interviews. They key is once you get the interview, don't lie about what you did, as Marcus said. I believe recruiting is all about getting the interview. Once you get in that room, the playing field levels significantly as far as qualifications go, and if you can shine in the interview, you've got a shot at the position.

  • Capt K
- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 

I don't disagree that it won't land him interviews. In fact, it WILL help. I'm just saying, once he's in the interview, and the interviewer actually reads into/asks about his internship, it'll hit 'em. They'll realize he was in tech, and then don't you think that'll strike the interviewer negatively?

If I were on the other side of that table, I'd lose some respect for that move. Be confident in the position you held. That goes for anybody. The misleading title might help you get the interview, because the screener just saw your chosen title. But ultimately you want the job, not just the interview, and to get that you have to earn some respect from your interviewer.

Again, put yourself in the shoes of the interviewer and ask yourself, was that move respectable or not? Because it will not go unnoticed.

 
h.e.pennypacker:
I don't disagree that it won't land him interviews. In fact, it WILL help. I'm just saying, once he's in the interview, and the interviewer actually reads into/asks about his internship, it'll hit 'em. They'll realize he was in tech, and then don't you think that'll strike the interviewer negatively?

If I were on the other side of that table, I'd lose some respect for that move. Be confident in the position you held. That goes for anybody. The misleading title might help you get the interview, because the screener just saw your chosen title. But ultimately you want the job, not just the interview, and to get that you have to earn some respect from your interviewer.

Again, put yourself in the shoes of the interviewer and ask yourself, was that move respectable or not? Because it will not go unnoticed.

His angle should not be to cover-up that he was in tech. His angle should be to let the resume reviewers believe what they will about his last position. If he was in the Credit Derivatives Technology group, put Credit Derivatives.

Once in the room with an interviewer his goal should be to communicate the value of his experiences and demonstrate his aptitude through talking about the past roles hes played. It all depends how he sells himself. His goal is not to lead the interviewer to believe he was in sales or tech or HR, his goal is to demonstrate the value of his experiences, regardless of whether he was in technology or sales, if he can do that he's got a shot.

Furthermore, at the junior level, prior experience is just a screen tool. No one is recruiting him because of all of the sales skills he's developed in his 10 week internship. If that were the case, then coming from tech, you're right, he doesnt have a shot in hell. But thats not the case. The FO vs. BO position is only a screening tool. Once hes in that room and they know his last position was in tech the only thing that will strike them are legitimate concerns, like:

  • does he have the interpersonal skills for a sales/trading job
  • does he have the financial product knowledge for a sales/trading job
  • et al

And its his job to acknowledge to himself that hes from a tech background and trying to get into a FO role, identify all the possible concerns a recruiter would have, and preemptively address them early in the recruiting process. To OP, do this by being exceptionally personable, well versed and enthusiastic about learning more about the financial markets and the products you're interviewing for. Also, its very important to exhibit an understanding of the products you previously supported in a tech role. This understanding should be above and beyond what one would need for a technology role.

 

Unethical? Ha.

Guys back me up here, how often have you guys been working on a valuation slide and the MD/VP tells you "let's get enterprise value around a range of $x-$y...just make the numbers work" You see, to get a job in IB you have to play the game.

It's sorta like when you want to nail a hot-but-slightly-chubby girl and you tell her "you look great", technically its 'lying' but you want it and she wants it, and that's just the game.

Keep it as is.

 

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