how to use connections

I have a question. I go to Princeton, and I see there is lots of room for networking. I can pull the grades, but can anyone give me advice on selling myself? I have a relative who works at Lehman Brothers in NY. Any suggestions on approaching him (I haven't met him, but I know pretty much his whole family). If anyone has gone to Princeton or any Ivy League school, do you have any advice on making connections? I come from a small town in the South, so I'm not so in tune with how to interact in a quick-paced atmosphere.

Also, any general tips on getting into iBanking? I'm working out so that I can eventually join some club teams (I've always liked sports, just been to skinny to do anything but track), and I am reading NYTimes from page to page...any other reading advice? Any other activities that you think will build my willpower, body, and will empower me socially?

Also one more question...how do I go about landing internships right now? I wanted to go to the Goldman Sachs camp for freshmen, but I'm not a minority (I'm from South India)...right now, I'm interning with a state senator and researching.

Thanks!

 

In order to answer a lot of the questions you asked it would help to have some more background. GPA, Major? etc.

That being said, the first thing I would do is not worry: you are a freshman -- you have PLENTY of time to develop into an eager beaver analyst. That being said, you should learn as much about iBanking as you can over the next few years. What does an analyst do? Modeling, Valuation analysis, etc...try to take a few finance classes where you use Excel. Even developing PPT skills will help. This website is a good place to start.

Along those lines, here are some general tips:

  1. Once you polish up on WHY i-Banking and you understand fully what it means to be an analyst (monkey), you should use every connection you can get (this shouldn't happen until early your Junior year at the earliest in my opinion). If you have a relative at Lehman that you haven't met, I would get his number, call him up and try to set up a time you guys could meet for lunch or coffee. You can tell him you've been "thinking about investment banking and you wanted to learn more." DO NOT suggest that he help you get a job (at least not at first)...he should offer to submit your resume and "help it along" once the time comes... as long as you demonstrate a strong understanding and desire to do the job.

  2. Practice practice practice for you interviews. Can't emphasize this enough. One of the few things you have control over is how you hold yourself and your pitch. YOu have an insatiable appetite to learn, a strong work ethic and a genuine interest in investment banking -- you have to believe it to sell it. If you don't really believe it, practice. The more you can come across as a sincere, hard-working and responsible guy the better.

  3. REading advice: Wall Street Journal...also, check out our forum on Reading Materials in the General iBanking Discussion Board.

  4. "Empower you socially"? First off, if you want to be empowered socially, don't use phrases like "empowered socially." judging from your post, it sounds like you might be a bit too "tight". A lot of iBankers want to know that you will be fun to hang out with at 3am when you're finishing a pitch or on the 2nd 100hr week in a row. you need to develop a sense of humor and confidence over the next few years. maturity is huge. iBAnking isn't rocket science, its hard fucking work...as an analyst, a lot of this is bitch work, but if you stick it out long enough, you start to get some of the interesting stuff -- or you can be like me an switch to private equity.

that's all for now...internships -- I never had one and i still got the job. i think they are a huge advantage if you can land one though...your relative might be able to help you out the summer before your senior year...but I wouldn't talk to him about thisuntil you leanr a lot more about the job. and even then not until early junior year.

good luck.

 

Hey, thanks for replying! I thought I'd include some more info real quick:

"In order to answer a lot of the questions you asked it would help to have some more background. GPA, Major? etc."

Economics major with a Math or Finance Certificate...3.80 GPA, hopefully getting up some more.

"That being said, the first thing I would do is not worry: you are a freshman -- you have PLENTY of time to develop into an eager beaver analyst. That being said, you should learn as much about iBanking as you can over the next few years. What does an analyst do? Modeling, Valuation analysis, etc...try to take a few finance classes where you use Excel. Even developing PPT skills will help. This website is a good place to start."

What are PPT skills? How can I use this website to learn about actual iBanking v. iBanking lifestyle?

Practice practice practice for you interviews. Can't emphasize this enough. One of the few things you have control over is how you hold yourself and your pitch. YOu have an insatiable appetite to learn, a strong work ethic and a genuine interest in investment banking -- you have to believe it to sell it. If you don't really believe it, practice. The more you can come across as a sincere, hard-working and responsible guy the better.

Any tips on how to practice?

"Empower you socially"? First off, if you want to be empowered socially, don't use phrases like "empowered socially." judging from your post, it sounds like you might be a bit too "tight". A lot of iBankers want to know that you will be fun to hang out with at 3am when you're finishing a pitch or on the 2nd 100hr week in a row. you need to develop a sense of humor and confidence over the next few years. maturity is huge. iBAnking isn't rocket science, its hard fucking work...as an analyst, a lot of this is bitch work, but if you stick it out long enough, you start to get some of the interesting stuff -- or you can be like me an switch to private equity.

Haha you kinda hit the nail on the head...I am kinda uptight, working on fixing it though.

Thanks!

 

it looks like you're really on top of your shit, but as the mod said, you need to unwind a little. banks love hard workers who are on top of their shit, but make sure your social skills are honed well enough to interact with the bankers, who can be intimidating, who will be coming to your school for recruiting. in other words, if you're only a freshman, don't start worrying about it so much yet. enjoy college, make friends, get drunk/high, join a frat or a club and take on some responsibility outside of class. the whole college experience is so much more than just career preparation.

you have a really strong GPA from a top 5 university in a major that is quite common in ibanking. come fall, all the top banks will be coming to your school for recruiting. Make a good impression on the reps, get their contact info and follow up with emails expressing sincere interest. if you're able to sell yourself well enough, you shouldn't have a problem getting interviews as long as you are not a social handicap. if you're still a sophomore though, it might be a lot more difficult ofr you to land interviews with top banks unless you somehow really stand out. if you can't get any, don't let that bring you down, just keep your grades up and spend your 2nd year padding your resume with some type of professional-atmosphere work experience or extracurricular leadership.

once you get that interview, do everything the mod told you. read a lot (wsj, vault guides, anything that might shed light on the industry, capital markets, or economy), talk to people who are interested in the industry, and LEARN HOW TO SELL YOURSELF. do this by doing mock interviews with people, spending a lot of time answering those generic interview questions and rehearsing in front of a mirror, have someone video tape you doing mock interviews, shit like that. just learn to sound convincing and sincere.

you have a ton of time, use it wisely and you'll be fine

 
ibdreamer:

Hi!

I''m going to be graduating college at the end of this year and am going to be entering the job hunting process. I've made a decent amount of contacts through networking and I wanted to know what would be the best way for me to reach out to them again and know if they can help me obtain a FT job. The thing is that some of these people did help me with the junior summer internship process in terms of putting my name in the process/giving referrals, but nothing ever panned out, but I don't want it to look like I'm using them, so I'm confused on that end what would be the best way to go about doing this either through e-mail/phone call/etc...

Thanks

I'm going through a similar issue - meeting a lot of contacts but finding difficulty following up and especially making the ask. What did you do to follow up and keep in contact with them? I find that I'm receiving a very low [follow-up] response rate.

 

Unless you established very positive relationships, just reach out to them and update them on your situation. If they reply, you can ask them to pass your resume on. If they don't reply, I would follow up a couple more times before asking them to do so. Make them want to help you.

When I follow up with my contacts, I just update them on what I've done since our last talk and my immediate future plans. Unless you're direcly asking for something, it makes sense that response rate is low. Just keep at it, and build the relationships until it's time to start submitting applications - at which point you can ask directly if nothing else.

Prospective Banker. Gentleman. Bodybuilder.
 

This is a very case-by-case scenario. Just get in touch with them again via email (thank them for assisting you earlier this summer), let them know what you've been up to, and simply ask if they'd be open to chatting with you, getting coffee, etc. Then take it from there.

Basically agree with above poster. It will be awhile before recruitment hits full stride, so just try to reinstate old relationships. Though most people are not dumb and know what you are after, but if they are/were willing to help you earlier this summer, then they will likely be receptive to speaking with you again.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

I have been wondering this as well, but I am a rising junior looking to reach out to my contacts for SA recruiting coming up. So over this summer, I have connected with around 5-12 people in each large BB here in NYC, but I am having a hard time reaching back out to continue the relationship. There are some good points above, but for the initial contact only being several weeks ago, is it too soon to reach back out with an update or something else? Also, ive had one phone call or one coffee meet with all of these people, but is it reasonable to have another one at some point in the near future? I am just confused at the process in which one keeps a relationship going. The initial contact is easy, keeping it seems very hard to me.

"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
 

Hey guys,

first, thanks for the advice and responses. sorry about the late response, but this is what I typed up for an e-mail I'm going to resend to my prior contacts who i spoke/networked with in the past and i was wondering if i could get your opinion of how it is.

thanks!

Dear Mr./Mrs. Smith, Hi, I hope that you are well. My name is ibdreamer and I am an Economics major at XYZ University. We had spoken in the past about your background and experiences. I wanted to thank you for taking the time to speak with me and I wanted to follow up with you about new events in my life. I worked at a boutique investment bank this summer in their Asset Management division. I will also be completing my degree from XYZ University this Fall and will be entering into full time recruitment. I was wondering if you would be willing to arrange a call with me again, so we could speak. Thanks, ibdreamer

 

Not to hijack your thread OP, but what about when you have made a positive connection and already had coffee/lunch/drinks? How do you approach following up before FT recruitment kicks off? Is it even needed to follow up? I think it cant hurt to get them thinking about you again, but I dont necessarily know how to approach this.

 

There's no magic formula here. It's really about crafting a strong resume and keeping in touch with your network. When you are ready to make a move, then send out emails to your contacts asking them if they happen to know of anyone hiring or any groups hiring in the bank. From there, it should start to work itself out.

In this way, if contact knows anything he/she can either tell you about it and let you pursue it, or offer you even more help and ask for your resume to pass it on - either way, it's an "in" that you wouldn't have without reaching out first. It's not really complex, it's far more about being tactful, patient and a strong presentation (resume, interview skills, etc.)

 

Agreed, just try to get in touch with them again via email before dropping them a resume. Many times people simply never get back to you because they saw it, moved on to more pressing emails, and then it slipped from their memory as they got their day started. Emailing again a bit later will spark their memory and you'll probably get a favorable response, particularly if you did in fact hit it off; they'll respond because they remembered they never got back to you in the first place and yet you've maintained interest.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Stop being a bitch and call him before someone else takes the job you are interested in. You miss 100% of the shots you do not take.

"The higher up the mountain, the more treacherous the path" -Frank Underwood
 

I'd get in touch with him after a few days via phone/email/LinkedIn. I'm sure he has a great network that can help you to get a job.

No contract means I have all the power. They want me, but they can't have me. - Don Draper
 

Shoot them an email shortly after you apply letting them know that you dropped your resume and that you would really appreciate any further advice or tips on further preparation for upcoming interviews. If the person is a strong enough connection, they will see your email and know right away what you are trying to get at. Maybe mention, "any further tips for how I should try and position myself to be the most competitive candidate," or something along those lines. This is the route I have taken and its worked pretty well for me thus far. I'm going through the process right now too so if you have any other questions shoot me a PM.

"My name's Ralph Cox, and I'm from where ever's not gonna get me hit"
 

"informational interviews" aren't really informational (usually). They'll know why you're there. Bring hard copy of your resume to all these meet-ups.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

alright so i've set up a call this weekend with the contact...I might actually ask him to meet for coffee or lunch or something...but either way, what can I say eventually put myself in a good position for a first round lol? i mean he clearly knows I will be doing whatever I'm doing simply to get a job/interview out of him, but at the same time, I cant be blunt and simply cut to the chase and ask for an interview....what I have in mind right now is the same plain old BS "tell me about the culture at your firm, what's it like working in your role, etc etc",,,

 

fall recruitment in a few months, i guess thats what he is talking about. try to get referals into the division you are interested, send an email aksing to speak to people for a few minutes on their background, how they broke in, etc. if you start now you can build some relationships until the fall, ask about the recruitment process and once its time contact them again and find out if they can forward your cv to the right people, let hr know about it etc. bb recruitment is fairly standardized these days so they probably wont be able to do that much for you but you never know.

pretty much the same as other threads would suggest. get your cv checked and know your story.

"too good to be true" See my WSO Blog
 

There is no such thing as guaranteed, but it can help a lot. If the connection likes you, then typically the rest of interviewers will like you too and you'll go forward. Basically, the connection has to like you and be at least an Associate, probably a VP more so.

 

Most places, an analyst can get you an interview because they read all the resumes, sort through them etc. If the school has analysts interview first and second rounds, then they can get you a job. I know of certain banks, like DB, where analysts basically run SA recruiting from the ground up and if you have a few on your side, you're in.

Associates are the least likely to be of help, they often don't participate much in recruiting.

VPs who are involved in recruiting and really like you can pretty much get you a job.

MDs who are involved in your particular recruiting plan have a lot of pull, MDs who aren't, can get you the interview but probably nothing else. This is unless they are the CFO or some such obscene thing.

All of this applies only if all rounds are done on campus. If there is a super day, a connection can get you to the super day and then you're on your own unless your connection is very very very senior.

--There are stupid questions, so think first.
 

Even MDs who aren't involved in your group have pull and can get you a job at their firm if they so please. It's not like they can't email another MD, and all else being equal (ie. you're not totally unqualified), the MD whose group you're joining is more likely to trust the discretion of another MD (not to mention want to do him/her a favor) than an associate or VP.

 

Step 1) grow a pair Step 2) let us know how it goes

Seriously man, the guy clearly likes you and will help you out. Reach out with an email to let him know you are applying and ask him if he has any advice. He will know what you are looking for.

Still not sure if I want to spend the next 30+ years grinding away in corporate finance and the WSO dream chase or look to have enough passive income to live simply and work minimally.
 

He know's you want the job. Its not like you just randomly go to someone's office everyday.

He's expecting you to send his resume. Just attach it to the next e-mail you send him and tell him you'd appreciate it if he sent it to HR.

Keep it Simple

 

Honestly, he's a trader, not a banker, he'll appreciate you being blunt about your motives.

If you want to be subtle about it instead, just tell him you're looking for summer internships and would like some advice on how to go about recruiting at his firm. If you really hit it off as well as you have described, I'm 90% certain he will OFFER to forward it and if I'm wrong then you can just ask him outright if he would be willing to accept your resume.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

Please read back through what you have written and honestly ask yourself how these potential connections might view you differently if they read this. You're title speaks volumes... "how do I -use- these connections." You're goal should not be to use anyone, it should be to gain valuable insight about career prospects and maybe, if they like you, they will lend a hand.

The reason I say this is not to pretend I'm morally superior; I'm not and a likely a hypocrite. I say this because you will gain far more from these connections by connecting on a personal level than by using them. I can't guarantee that you will land an internship by really attempting to engage them and show genuine interest in their lives, however I can guarantee going in with the intent of pumping them for all their worth will backfire.

 
eriginal:
Please read back through what you have written and honestly ask yourself how these potential connections might view you differently if they read this. You're title speaks volumes... "how do I -use- these connections." You're goal should not be to use anyone, it should be to gain valuable insight about career prospects and maybe, if they like you, they will lend a hand.

The reason I say this is not to pretend I'm morally superior; I'm not and a likely a hypocrite. I say this because you will gain far more from these connections by connecting on a personal level than by using them. I can't guarantee that you will land an internship by really attempting to engage them and show genuine interest in their lives, however I can guarantee going in with the intent of pumping them for all their worth will backfire.

I see what you mean and at the same time sometimes all it takes is action on one's OWN part. As in asking for a recommendation or an introduction. Forget letting someone lend you a hand if they feel like it. Why not just ask? These aren't random people i met on the street - I've worked with them. This isn't the industry of subtlety or passivity.

Having said that, I appreciate the advice and I'll definitely make sure I don't come across as a vampire.

 

I definitely agree with that. Take action and be bold, coming from a non-target, networking was my game and the only reason I got a great position right out of school. You're original post made it seem like you were just out to pump them for contacts, however it's clear that isn't the case. As long as you show genuine interest they will most likely offer help without you asking is my point. They know that you need help getting hired and if they like you (just talk about them) then they are more likely to help. Best of luck and PM me with any questions.

 
eriginal:
I definitely agree with that. Take action and be bold, coming from a non-target, networking was my game and the only reason I got a great position right out of school. You're original post made it seem like you were just out to pump them for contacts, however it's clear that isn't the case. As long as you show genuine interest they will most likely offer help without you asking is my point. They know that you need help getting hired and if they like you (just talk about them) then they are more likely to help. Best of luck and PM me with any questions.

Thanks man!

 

"They are only taking junior interns" - and you are?

Since he is a family friend, you've met with him in the past, and he introduced you to his superiors - no need to add fluff. Be short and concise and ask exactly what it is that you want.

A simple "Hello, hope all is well. I wanted to catch up with you at your convenience and ask you how to best position myself for a summer internship at BAML. ."

Good luck.

 

To clarify, I am a junior this year and thus an eligible candidate. When I met with him last year I was not.

And I am fully aware that PWM internships arent the most glamorous, but for me getting one will actually be a challenge... Im coming from a non-target with GPA in the lower 3's.

So you think it would be best to request a meeting?

 

cyoung33,

you should be straight as forward as possible with him. most likely, he will be your boss for the summer or will work in your group. pwm internship is definitely unpaid at baml.

talk about how much you appreciate doing well for your clients and your understanding the complicated process of building a client pipeline. also, try to include something you've read on totalmerrill.com, which their marketing site to get more clients.

drop me a message if you want specifics on how a ml wealth management internship runs.

 

My guess is he probably understands why you want to talk to him. (assuming it is a man?)

I think if you approach it as an informational interview and explain that you are interested in investment banking, want to learn more about it as a career path, etc. my guess is he will probably pass your resume to HR (provided you don't come across as awfully incompetent or a terrible person) and depending on needs you may or may not get an interview.

Unless this is a close family friend I don't think there will be a whole lot of nepotism for you to lean on.

Regardless of whether you get a job or even an interview out of it, it is an awesome opportunity to speak with someone at that level. Good luck!

 

Best bet here is to make your resume as perfect as possible and respectfully express your interest in a job letting them know you respect their time you'd love to learn more about the firm and what makes it unique and if there are others you could speak to learn more. Keep in mind its risky for them to hire you as a friend of a friend cause they can't just fire you and may feel compelled to treat you differently. So not a slam dunk even if this person obviously has the "power". You need to de-risk that mindset going in.

 

Go into the phone call planning to do more listening and learning than talking. He will want to tell you about banking, and if you talk less, you have less chances to screw up. I had a similar experience, and it got me a super day in NYC because he reached out to the interviewer who came on campus.

He knows exactly what your goal is, and you are not the first person to ask him about it. Learn something about his firm that will show you actually did some background leg work. Have questions prepared, and also have an idea of what environment you want to be in.

Like the guy above said, resume is key. If it sucks, he may deny your call. Good luck.

 

Thanks for the posts guys. The connection is actually through a friend - it's her father who is the Partner and Chairman. As with most informational interview emails, I said I needed advice regarding the career. I have been given his mobile number and been told to contact him whenever I feel like it, so he wont have seen my resume or anything.

At the moment it will be a lot of advice and he will do the majority of the talking I'm sure - is there any way I can change this to him actively wanting to help me?

 
parfather:

Thanks for the posts guys. The connection is actually through a friend - it's her father who is the Partner and Chairman. As with most informational interview emails, I said I needed advice regarding the career. I have been given his mobile number and been told to contact him whenever I feel like it, so he wont have seen my resume or anything.

At the moment it will be a lot of advice and he will do the majority of the talking I'm sure - is there any way I can change this to him actively wanting to help me?

Just ask good questions and near the end ask him what sort of things he thinks you should be doing to position yourself to break into the industry. He'll get the point and if he wants to help you further he'll tell you to send him your resume and he'll forward it as appropriate.

 

Similar question to the OP. I have a family connection to the CEO of a major company (100-200b Market Cap).

I feel quite awkward directly approaching them for a role, should I? Context: I have never met him but have a close relationship with his closest relative.

For the lol's I was going to put an online application in and list his name as my referrer.

 

In my experience, I've found that 1st and 2nd years don't have much pull, and won't be able to get you an internship by themselves.

What they can do though, is to bring you up to meet people within their group (associates, other analysts, maybe a VP, and the group staffer). If you make a good enough impression on the others (especially the staffer), they can recommend you for an interview.

 
streetluck:
In my experience, I've found that 1st and 2nd years don't have much pull, and won't be able to get you an internship by themselves.

What they can do though, is to bring you up to meet people within their group (associates, other analysts, maybe a VP, and the group staffer). If you make a good enough impression on the others (especially the staffer), they can recommend you for an interview.

Analysts have a lot of pull when decisions are made on who gets interviews- your contact should be able to get you an interview pretty easily.

I've pulled for people I knew and have gotten them internships. If you know your contact well, he/she should be able to do this provided you aren't a retard.

 

Also, if you get an interview with that bank, you can mention that you talked with that person and they said the bank was amazing blah blah blah, and theyll see that you took your research about the firm to the next level.

 

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