I've got a question about resume's (for pepole with HR experience in particular)

Hello all,

I've got a friend seeking an entry-level position in finance, and he asked me to help him spruce up his resume. Now, he's a real smart guy, but he didn't really take care of business during the college years and I'm afraid that he doesn't have a shot. So, I was wondering...where can I, and where can I not...get away with flat out lies on his resume?

School? It seems like a crazy question...but do HR people even do anything to confirm that a candidate did indeed attend the college he lists on his resume? Smaller, close-knit schools might be risky, but I'm thinking that he might be able to get away with a nice, big, public institution.

Major? Do HR people do anything to confirm that a candidate did indeed major in what he lists as his major?

GPA? Do HR people do anything to confirm that a candidate's GPA actually was what he listed?

Work Experience? What extent do HR people go to to confirm that you actually did work where you claim to have? I'm guessing that they at least contact your most recent employer for a reference...but there are ways around that. Such as setting up a fake email account as the contact for a real financial executive (sort of a modern take on the old 'vandalay industries' seinfeld prank).

Extracurriculars? What extent do HR people go to to confirm that a person...did indeed play four years of varsity baseball? volunteer at a homeless shelter? win some class awards? make the dean's list? etc.?

Like I said, my friend's pretty smart, and actually pretty well read when it comes to the financial world. If he can get into a starting position somewhere, I think he's going to be just fine.

Crazy topic.

But I appreciate any feedback!

 

Places to bullshit:

School: No Major: No

GPA: No

These all show up on the transcript (obviously). Not all firms ask for one, but this is kind of a no-brainer.

Work experience: No

They will ask for references and they will be called.

Extracurriculars: Maybe. Don't bullshit a varsity sport, but there can be some fluffing - my own moral boundaries draw the line at completely making something up, but you can say you were part of club X if you went and ate some pizza at their information session and got on the mailing list.

 

Your 'friend' should go ahead and put down a 4.0 from Harvard. Most places don't even have fully staffed HR departments anymore, they're being replaced by computers with a fancy sorting algo that takes the best resumes and gives them jobs. Zero fact checking. Especially at the BBs. Oh and for work experience as long as you put something involving the CIA and you'll be fine, your work records are sealed as a matter of national security, the banks will understand.

 

chron3k -

1) school/major/gpa - Do many places actually ask for an academic transcript? I've certainly never been asked for proof of my credentials beyond calls to my references. And if they're going to, do they usually let you know beforehand (i.e., ask you to submit it with your resume)? Or (gulp) after the interview process has been completed (and a lot of time has been wasted, lol).

2) work experience - If an email is provided as the preferred means of contact, couldn't my buddy just set up a fake account and respond himself? I mean, even if they were adamant about speaking to the ex-employer on the phone, he could just go straight seinfeld and give him my number, right? lol.

3) extracurriculars - why no bluffing about a varsity sport (that isn't an obvious lie from a physical stand point)? walk-on? lol

Stratus - lol, yes really.

Random - how serious could the repercussions of being caught even be? It's not like it's illegal to lie on a resume. and if he doesn't get the job...it's no big deal bc he really has no chance to get it anyways. Would they really go ape shit and waste the time it would take contacting HR dept's all over the place about you?

 

osnap - i can't really tell where you are, and aren't being sarcastic prior to the cia comment? i know it's a funny issue, but i'm actually going to try and help him out as best i can (he is paying me), so i'd appreciate some real feed back.

 
bo schembechler:
osnap - i can't really tell where you are, and aren't being sarcastic prior to the cia comment? i know it's a funny issue, but i'm actually going to try and help him out as best i can (he is paying me), so i'd appreciate some real feed back.

If he is paying you and you are simply parroting what you read here, shouldn't you be paying the person who actually helps him? He can't flat out lie. End of story.

 
Best Response

Troll, but I'm going to bite as warning to anyone out there getting any ideas. Don't lie, period. First off it's super fucked up to the kids who stayed in every Friday night, read every boring chapter, spent hundreds of hours (literally) cold calling & cramming Vault guides, giving up summers being inside an office, likely graduated as virgins, and got stellar grades. What you're doing is basically stealing from them (us), stealing time and effort.

Second, if you do lie here's what will happen. Your previous jobs are the easiest to track down. It's one call whoever it is you listed, never heard of the guy, bam you're donezo. Where you went to school's the second easiest, a bum can walk in off the street and ask if someone is a student at the school.

Grades, for as big of a deal as they are in banking, are probably the easiest out of three (and mean that very relatively) to get away with in my experience but is still fucked up and taking a HUGE risk to bullshit. Even though you'll sign off for them to do so, sometimes banks don't pull official transcripts due to the monster pain in the ass (assuming they're not using a service) some schools can be about handing them over. This is only indicative to bucket shops and maybe a regional BB office that does their own recruiting or is hiring off cycle. My jobs/experience have had strict GPA cutoffs that were stressed during application. Out of the three when I checked with my registrar each time and only one actually pulled my transcript (which wasn't even a bank ironically) but all very well could have.

Bottom line is don't do it, it's not fair to the kids who earn it, and if you get caught and you piss off the right people word can get around and you can end up basically being banned from working in finance.

Ace all your PE interview questions with the WSO Private Equity Prep Pack: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/guide/private-equity-interview-prep-questions
 

I call troll but anyway...

The fact that you would even consider just making shit up on a resume is as insane as it is stupid. If these were even remotely possible, I would have applied with a 4.0 from harvard and internships at Blackrock, KKR, Goldman, and the fucking CIA. Why would people worry about their GPA so much if they could just say fuck it and throw a 3.9 at the top of their resume? Because they can't

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
 

Don't pull a Jeffrey Chiang. Let's put it this way, let's say your buddy does make it through the screening process, what if they start asking for transcripts? Are you actually Jeffrey Chiang?

In interviews your cover will be blown, because he won't be able to answer any question with confidence.

Be smart, don't do drugs and don't lie.

 

craigmcdermott - why? it doesn't really seem like theres extensive background checking being done?

happypantsmcgee -

1) I'm not talking about big time PE or HF jobs that would require Harvard/4.0/KKR/etc. My friend is smart, but he's not THAT smart. He'd be found out in an instant someplace like that. I'm talking about an entry level position at a smaller, less prestigious AM firm most likely.

2) Why is it not possible, do they require college transcripts for the better jobs?

 

^

AFTER you interview and accept an offer, every bank makes you fill out a very long background check info, which gets OUTSOURCED to a PROFESSIONAL THIRD PARTY background check company.

I've had former bosses call me from China asking me wtf was going on because they received a random call asking about my dates of employment, whether I was paid or not, and my performance.

And I've been asked for my transcript.

 
ibhopeful532:
^

AFTER you interview and accept an offer, every bank makes you fill out a very long background check info, which gets OUTSOURCED to a PROFESSIONAL THIRD PARTY background check company.

I've had former bosses call me from China asking me wtf was going on because they received a random call asking about my dates of employment, whether I was paid or not, and my performance.

And I've been asked for my transcript.

I call bullshit. All they are legally aloud to ask is to confirm you worked there. They dont ask about performance; it's illegal.

"The higher up the mountain, the more treacherous the path" -Frank Underwood
 
barboon:
ibhopeful532:
^

AFTER you interview and accept an offer, every bank makes you fill out a very long background check info, which gets OUTSOURCED to a PROFESSIONAL THIRD PARTY background check company.

I've had former bosses call me from China asking me wtf was going on because they received a random call asking about my dates of employment, whether I was paid or not, and my performance.

And I've been asked for my transcript.

I call bullshit. All they are legally aloud to ask is to confirm you worked there. They dont ask about performance; it's illegal.

It's allowed, not aloud.

 

ibhopeful532 - wow. do they do this at small AM firms? it sounds expensive. do you know of any of the third party company's by name? i'd like to learn a little bit more about how they conduct their business. and do you think they'd be checking for extracurricular things (sports, volunteer, awards, etc.)?

 

As insane and stupid as this thread is, one of the top ranked threads on this website is about a 23 yr old who scammed Harvard.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

lol, hey, i'm helping a smart kid get a good job. not his fault his parents were simple blue collar workers as opposed to the bankers, lawyers, doctors and professor parents that found out for you what needed to be done between the all imporant ages of 18-20.

and...thanks everyone for all the help. i think the best course of action is for me to have my buddy order a report on himself, and to then embelish accordingly.

 
bo schembechler:
lol, hey, i'm helping a smart kid get a good job. not his fault his parents were simple blue collar workers as opposed to the bankers, lawyers, doctors and professor parents that found out for you what needed to be done between the all imporant ages of 18-20.

and...thanks everyone for all the help. i think the best course of action is for me to have my buddy order a report on himself, and to then embelish accordingly.

I'm also going to acknowledge that this is a troll before I give a heated response: this is a troll.

FUCK YOU for bringing that reverse-snobbery populist bullshit to this site. Sure, the upper classes have more advantages, but there are plenty of lower and working class families who have enough basic sense to tell their kids to "go to a good college" as a setup for future opportunities.

To recommend your friend cheat his way into a position for which his only qualification is being "smart" would be to screw more-qualified candidates out of the position independently of their family's socioeconomic standing. Thus, potentially poorer, smarter, and more deserving kids would get fucked just because you and your friends have some fucking proletariat chip on your shoulders.

Also, for those of us in the upper and upper middle classes, someone in our family tree worked very hard for the sole purpose of imparting these slight advantages to us. This is America, nobody here descended from royalty, our parents and grandparents were once working class too, and they busted their asses, without lying, to get to where they are today. (Just to have it in all three paragraphs, I'm going to say another FUCK YOU.)

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 
Nouveau Richie:
bo schembechler:
lol, hey, i'm helping a smart kid get a good job. not his fault his parents were simple blue collar workers as opposed to the bankers, lawyers, doctors and professor parents that found out for you what needed to be done between the all imporant ages of 18-20.

and...thanks everyone for all the help. i think the best course of action is for me to have my buddy order a report on himself, and to then embelish accordingly.

I'm also going to acknowledge that this is a troll before I give a heated response: this is a troll.

FUCK YOU for bringing that reverse-snobbery populist bullshit to this site. Sure, the upper classes have more advantages, but there are plenty of lower and working class families who have enough basic sense to tell their kids to "go to a good college" as a setup for future opportunities.

To recommend your friend cheat his way into a position for which his only qualification is being "smart" would be to screw more-qualified candidates out of the position independently of their family's socioeconomic standing. Thus, potentially poorer, smarter, and more deserving kids would get fucked just because you and your friends have some fucking proletariat chip on your shoulders.

Also, for those of us in the upper and upper middle classes, someone in our family tree worked very hard for the sole purpose of imparting these slight advantages to us. This is America, nobody here descended from royalty, our parents and grandparents were once working class too, and they busted their asses, without lying, to get to where they are today. (Just to have it in all three paragraphs, I'm going to say another FUCK YOU.)

You're wrong. Haven't you heard of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? You don't go after self-actualization before you attain food and security. It's common sense that those from lower income families teach their kids to find stability in careers that don't require high upfront costs, e.g. doctor (med school), lawyer(law school), etc. Sure there are exceptions but that's not mostly the case.

Give the kid a break.

 
Nouveau Richie:
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/company/what-is-the-back-office-bo><abbr title=back office>bo</abbr></a></span> schembechler:
lol, hey, i'm helping a smart kid get a good job. not his fault his parents were simple blue collar workers as opposed to the bankers, lawyers, doctors and professor parents that found out for you what needed to be done between the all imporant ages of 18-20.

and...thanks everyone for all the help. i think the best course of action is for me to have my buddy order a report on himself, and to then embelish accordingly.

I'm also going to acknowledge that this is a troll before I give a heated response: this is a troll.

FUCK YOU for bringing that reverse-snobbery populist bullshit to this site. Sure, the upper classes have more advantages, but there are plenty of lower and working class families who have enough basic sense to tell their kids to "go to a good college" as a setup for future opportunities.

To recommend your friend cheat his way into a position for which his only qualification is being "smart" would be to screw more-qualified candidates out of the position independently of their family's socioeconomic standing. Thus, potentially poorer, smarter, and more deserving kids would get fucked just because you and your friends have some fucking proletariat chip on your shoulders.

Also, for those of us in the upper and upper middle classes, someone in our family tree worked very hard for the sole purpose of imparting these slight advantages to us. This is America, nobody here descended from royalty, our parents and grandparents were once working class too, and they busted their asses, without lying, to get to where they are today. (Just to have it in all three paragraphs, I'm going to say another FUCK YOU.)

almost forgot about the trade-off. when your rich parents tell you exactly what to do, and you do it...instead of figuring out things for yourself...you end up with either no personality, or a very angry one.

:)

 

^

Lol - wtf? I'm pretty sure it's not illegal. However, at bigger firms, standard practice is for the firm to not comment on this as it potentially opens them up to lawsuits. The internship I did was a) not in the US and b) my boss volunteered (good) info

 

Not everyone can lie in a smart way on a resume. It's an "art form."

I've personally helped quite a few people getting jobs that were way out of reach to them because of life circumstances.

If I see someone who is deserving, yet because of a tough life was not able to attend the best schools etc, I help them out, and I got quite good at it. I am not talking about amazing jobs, but pretty good jobs for them (banking, broker assistant etc).

The best part is seeing how these people end up performing better than most other people at these jobs, simply because of the value they give to it.

I've never felt guilty about it and I would do it all over again. It's a dog eat dog world, and you always gotta help.

 

this reminds me of people at my fob-ass school with 3.4s trying to list 3.5s because they think that "3.5 is the cutoff for banking" what a fuckin jokeeeeeeeeeee

 
Eamon:
Seriously, people that make up information on their resumes DISGUST me.

Trolls are ruining this site.

Embellishing is just like making stuff up, and I guarantee you that everyone embellishes their resume.

In the end, all you are doing is selling yourself.

 
MrFuture:
Eamon:
Seriously, people that make up information on their resumes DISGUST me.

Trolls are ruining this site.

Embellishing is just like making stuff up, and I guarantee you that everyone embellishes their resume.

In the end, all you are doing is selling yourself.

Hey MrFuture, perhaps you should look a little into WSO's past. Eamon is being quite ironic: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/high-school-senior-seeking-invest…

It will also explain why homie has -10 banana points.

“Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do”
 

Atque aut nesciunt sint eius. Sed quia blanditiis sint. Magni aliquid sit magni aperiam quis autem praesentium.

Quod aut natus enim alias dolorum quod in. Eveniet facere autem quod maxime aliquid vel magnam. Inventore eveniet sequi inventore voluptatem quos omnis voluptas neque. Molestias laborum dolorem inventore dolorum.

Non non quia eum a aut qui. Fugiat ipsum consectetur labore velit delectus. Inventore sunt ullam et qui itaque quibusdam harum.

 

Accusamus cumque voluptas consequatur delectus velit soluta. Ipsam perferendis dolor delectus doloribus ipsum omnis sint. Placeat consequuntur omnis iure. Aut reiciendis quia facere laudantium assumenda.

Nulla mollitia molestiae quisquam velit facilis. Id reprehenderit dicta minus. Ea eaque necessitatibus dolor corrupti nostrum. Ullam maxime quia sed fugit maxime. Qui consequuntur suscipit repellat enim harum molestias. Inventore quia consequatur voluptas.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
bolo up's picture
bolo up
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”