I wanted to hear what peoples experience or opinions are in regards to what job postings are asking for in a candidate vs. who applies/gets hired. In particular for young positions like analysts. It seems like they ask for candidates to already know a lot. Do they often accept candidates that don't meet all the "required" criteria but will go ahead and train them?
I was looking at a JLL capital markets analyst job posting and it said things like...
-Perform complex financial analyses, including cash flow projections with complex financing structures, Argus valuation models, and sensitivity analyses
-Create sophisticated Excel-based analytical tools including macro-enabled financial models
Would a place like JLL expect you to be proficient in all that or would they take someone with moderate modeling skills and train / teach the rest? For example I know how to model out cash flows and perform analysis's but only have limited experience with different financing structures. Also i dont have experience in creating macros with excel or Argus.
Think of it this way, if they're hiring for one person, and you don't have those skills, what do you think the chances are that someone else does? Less so for campus recruiting but for experienced hires they want someone who can hit the ground running and there will be plenty of people who work in that sector who will be able to do those things.
Again, outside of campus recruiting specifically I find those "requirements" are actually the bare minimum to even be considered. Unless the job market for that posting isn't that competitive you can bet that at least a handful of candidates will check all of those boxes. No I mean, in your example, do you have to be an expert in Argus? Maybe not, but you'd probably need to be a least familiar with it and be able to check off most of the other skills.
I agree. This is the way to look at it.
In my experience they usually want more than their basic requirements if it is just an online application for full-time, internships and networking can lead to getting a full-time position while being below their online application requirements.
I have always found job requirements to be rather high vs what they are actually prepared to hire/pay for. Also, something like different financing structures are things you can self-study and can speak intelligently about without having necessarily 'worked' on them. Lastly, hard skills such as macros and Argus can also be self-studied and you can reach high levels of proficiency even without your current role requiring them...
Very much this.
Hell, using this example, I'm not sure why someone who can "perform complex financial analyses, including cash flow projections with complex financing structures, Argus valuation models, and sensitivity analyses (and) create sophisticated Excel-based analytical tools including macro-enabled financial models" would want to be an analyst at JLL. I get that it's capital markets, but that's an entry level position.
THIS - Absolutely. I have found this to be the case in a couple other positions - it looks like a lot is desired but the pay is not quite there. Or maybe then RE is not a well-paid industry except for much higher positions/responsibilities.
Agree with this 100%. I'm really tired of listings that "require" a "minimum of 3 years of investment banking/consulting/corporate finance experience - preferably in the real estate industry" along with the technical qualifications mentioned above that has a target comp of $60k and is really looking for someone with maybe a year of experience (or a good internship).
That being said - as others have mentioned, having the qualifications "required" on your resume does help you make it past the HR screening. Whether or not you would actually accept the position is another question...
Jumping on the bandwagon here a bit, but before I found my current role I noticed this alot. Quite a few firms were looking for Big 4 Audit Seniors for entry level financial analyst/staff accounting roles that I (in my opinion) could have gotten out of undergrad. I've noticed a few things:
1) Employers are risk adverse; they want more for less. Would you rather have an overqualified (and underpaid) analyst who will come work for you just because their W/L balance is better or someone you have to spend more time "housetraining" i.e. teaching them how to fill out their insurance forms in their onboarding process? The more experienced a hire is, the less "housetraining" is required.
2) There seems to be a demand/supply gap of employees at the mid-level roles everywhere. Literally everywhere is looking for a mid-level accountant, IB Associate, etc. Not sure why this is, but maybe it has something to do with baby boomers retiring and people moving up in rank more rapidly?
3) I've found that "preferred" qualifications are just that - preferred. If an employer is looking for someone with 5 years of experience in IB, and they can't find someone, then they'll start looking at people with 4 years, then 3 years, etc. and so on. For some roles, they'll look at other fields as well. When I was in Audit, I got multiple interviews for corp dev positions that preferred 2-4 years of IB, capital markets, PE, VC experience but they mentioned they would also consider auditors. Given I hadn't even finished a year yet and they called me anyway, I have a feeling they didn't get the applicant pool they wanted/thought they would get.
4) I feel alot of online postings just contain buzzwords or certain relevant skills so that people either a) think a job entails something it doesn't or to b) trick people into thinking a role is more prestigious than it is. (Like FP&A jobs that require complex modeling and analysis but the job responsibilities are 90% posting journal entries and performing month-end close.)
Hi there sorry to side track but would you mind recommending some books on financing structures?
Hi there, sorry to side track but do you have any good books on financing structures? Thanks.
Boom: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/books-on-financing-structures and until I saw this was you I thought you were being sarcastic
I do plan on self studying the above but I doubt I would have necessary time for current posted jobs.
A big factor too will be who you go through to get the job. In my experience, if you apply online and HR screens you, you better have the minimum requirements. If you network in and get on the hiring manager's good side, then it's far more about fit and what the manager thinks you are capable of over a longer period of time.
I can see a REPE or development company actually requiring this. Would a company like JLL whose comps arent as high for an analyst position train some of the "requirements" assuming a candidate has moderate modeling and analysis experience? I agree that candidates who have all those skills and experience would much rather head to a REPE, reit or development shop.
What companies or kind of companies would train these more advanced skills to their analysts? or do most analyst/associate level people learn this stuff on their own time? (excluding people who go to graduate school)
I can't speak for larger development/REPE firms, but at every firm I've been at (large Services Firm, 2 medium size owners/developers) the training has been minimal to non existent.
A small REPE shop guy once told me, I don't have time to train someone to do anything, that's what Hines is for.
Hah, that's amusing too, because Hines is definitely a company that will want you to know most of that shit going in anyhow.
In my experience, developers and equity shops are fine with you not knowing everything and are more than happy to teach you tricks and tips, ways to improve, etc. BUT they expect you to have a baseline of intermediate knowledge going in. So, learn this stuff on your own and get good at it but don't drive yourself crazy trying to achieve 100% mastery.
To me this is an example of probably expecting a lot more than you're willing to pay for (especially given the Spanish Fluency requirement):
Bachelor’s Degree, preferably with a concentration in real estate, finance, mathematics, construction/development, general finance, business, or similar degree from a top tier institution. MBA preferred.
EXPERIENCE
Minimum of three years in acquisitions and five years real estate experience in soliciting, analyzing, negotiating, financing and acquiring real estate and entering into joint ventures in commercial real estate in all property types. Experience with office and industrial property investments preferred.
KNOWLEDGE/SKILLS
Exceptional analytical skills for evaluating and communicating complex financial data and economic, legal, political and market conditions.
Ability to clearly and concisely communicate conclusions in written and verbal formats.
Proficient in real estate project software (Argus), Excel, Word and PowerPoint.
Experienced in real estate equity and debt transactions.
Detail oriented, self-motivated and possesses excellent organizational skills.
Comfortable working in a fast paced highly entrepreneurial environment.
Positive, proactive work ethic and approach
Experience negotiating purchase and sale, equity, debt and joint venture agreements
Fluent in Spanish (verbal and written) preferred.
Compensation Range: $75,000-$99,999
I've even seen postings for Acqusitions internships asking for proficiency in Argus and/or modeling which is absurd.
I guess It doesn't hurt to reach and apply for these type of job posting and see what happens. At lower level positions I would have to assume there are going to be some "requirements" that most candidates would have to be taught. it just seems like every analyst job posting is requiring a lot of skills that I don't know where young professionals would learn from prior.
Don't not apply just because you don't check every box. Some of these postings might be coming from HR people who barely communicate with the deal/business people and don't even know what an analyst actually does, they just found the "analyst" job description from another company's job posting. There are certainly many firms who have decision makers give heavy input on job descriptions/requirements, but I think there are some firms that don't manage this process well and might be spooking away candidates they'd gladly have a phone call with.
Job Posting >= What you will be doing on the job > Hired candidate can do on day 1
Any realistic hiring manager isn't going to expect an "Analyst" to know much about anything coming into a job. They are expected to train you (and you should realize that means you are more of a drain on his/her time and resources than benefit initially).
On my first job after grad school, I knew zero about VBA (excel macro programming) but in short period of time picked it up and ran circles around my peers. Why? Yes, I'm smart but also I had a programming background (BS in EE with CS minor) and few years of programming experience prior to my masters. Lesson learned is that you may have background via other jobs or even school that may help you pick up those requirements faster (or slower) than others.
Related to that first job to, why did they hire me? Not because I knew anything about the product, modeling of that product, or excel/macros even. It was because they thought I was smart enough to learn how to do everything they needed me to do. Can you demonstrate that? Then the job is yours (30-50% of the time). Don't discount even if you are perfect on paper, personality and "culture" fit is the other 50-70% of the equation.
Best of Luck
So as an example I just saw a posting for an analyst with minimum 3 years experience. Are there people who are "Analysts" for more than 3-5 years?
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