Is JP Morgan IB Risk Analyst FO or MO?
Some people in the forum said it's a front office role and some people said it's a middle office role. When all risk positions are basically MO, why is JP Morgan's risk analyst position any different? Does anybody have any experience with this program?
There seems to be conflicting answers based on previous posts.
The only place where risk management is front office is in that movie margin call. But it also has Sylar from Heroes as an associate and the gay guy from Moulin Rouge as an MD
MO.
FO is anything that is revenue generating.
I know a bunch of ib risk people and jpm considers it front office. That is why it's called investment banking risk and not just credit risk etc at jp. There are some arguments to be made since risk is MO at other banks.
Uh.... It's called IB because it is for the investment banking side of things rather than risk for the commercial bank which is a part of the finance division at JPM. Similarly, JP Morgan's operations division is called IB Ops. Does this mean that operations there is FO?
What makes you think JPM considers it FO?
I have interviewed for the JPM Freshmen and Sophomore Summer Internship that is strictly geared towards Front Office divisions only on the investment bank side and they listed the choices: Investment Banking, IB Risk, Sales & Trading and Research as choices.
Best friend / Room-mate interned there. Unfortunately it really isn't FO. That doesn't make it disreputable though!
The IB risk kids go through the same training with the IBD kids, also same base I believe (though maybe 65K) and smaller bonus. Leads me to believe it's FO.
.
JPM IB Risk analyst are basically the Credit Analyst on deals. The coverage bankers reach to ecm,dcm,m&A, and the credit teams. IB Risk analysts work same hours as ibd analyst, they get paid same base and similar bonus. It is FO at JPM. You are active on deals but you also do traditional credit risk duties as well.
Much different then Credit Risk at like Barclays or MS.
IB Risk is not FO at any bank. FO means revenue generating (you dont generate revenue in risk). Its a good position thats in a different classification. Its not a bank by bank dinstinction.
yes, it's not a bank by bank distinction but at JPM it is definitely considered front office. comp is the same as coverage analysts and bonuses are identical. associate promotes receive the same sabbaticals, get the same ipads, everything is the same. in fact, IBD coverage and IB Risk at JPM practically work hand in hand when JPM is trying to pitch the client anything credit-related. that includes term loans, revolvers, HY issuances, LBOs, acquisition financing. don't comment on what you don't know geeks
comparable groups at other firms with large B/S are ICG @ Citi and Credit Risk @ Barcap. heard Barcap is paying its Credit Risk analysts 70k salary now.
I don't know if IB risk is considered front office or not at JPM (as far as I could tell they didn't source deals or fees and thus were not revenue generative) but they certainly did not work anything close to the same hours as IBD.
Having said that, in terms of analyst training / events they are indeed grouped in with ST and IBD- but once again, they don't generate revenues or meet with clients ( I think) so I'd say they seem to be a FO support group- not a bad thing, just not pure front office
This is spot on, ultimately, IB Risk is not FO - primarily because looking at the risk of underwriting a client is not something that people employ a bank for.
It was just a misinterpretation of what FO is... The career line is not any less demanding (as far as smarts go.. hours is a different story) or less well paid, but it is not an inherently a revenue generating division (maybe, in a TO if another bank employs another bank's risk division, possibly, but god, I have NEVER heard of that happening.)
Bump*
What's the pay progression (base and bonus) like for someone in IB Risk (say, at JPM)? I am interested in JPM's market risk area (FYI, market risk is one of the the many areas in IB Risk).
JPM has risk and ib risk are two different things. The ib risk team is revenue generating, tehy basically do the same thing that structurers do in s&t except they deal with larger value deals eg m&a and debt issues helping clients manage the risks associated with those deals. It's a value added service that clients actually pay extra for.
They also have a MO group which does the same risk analysis stuff that everyone knows.
Its MO
It's MO. sigh...
It's FO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.
You know this whole thing about FO/BO/MO really makes everyone's head spin.
First of all, I'm not sure when the term MO came to be but it really doesn't exist. A job function is either a profit or cost center; there's no in between, but that doesn't appear to translate exactly when people talk about FO/BO /MO. The fact that MO exists probably tells us that the line between FO and BO isn't so clearly laid out to begin with.
Secondly I think there's still ambiguity when people talk about what FO really means. It seems more people define it as revenue-generating, but I always thought of it as client-facing since ER is considered FO.
With that said, it's still your career on the line here. Rather than thinking about whether it's FO/BO/MO, focus on what the role actually entails and how it fits into your long term goals. For what's worth, I knew people who got ibd jobs but turned down by MO roles, and others who choose MO over FO.
JPM "IBD Risk" Analyst: BO or FO? (Originally Posted: 10/15/2009)
I'm not sure if this is a BO position or not. The website is very vague. It's not under the operations or services umbrella on the website and training includes modeling, accounting, etc. Thoughts? Which leads me to my second question: what's analyst comp like?
Link to position: http://mediazone.JPMorgan.com/cm/ContentServer?pagename=JPM_redesign/JPM_Content_P/IB_Generic_Content_Page_Template&c=JPM_Content_P&cid=1159394513727&Employee_Id=1159394522772
Formal Description on posting: As an Analyst in IB Risk, you'll spend three years working with top professionals at the heart of a leading global investment bank. With the support of a world-class training program, hands-on learning opportunities, mentoring and feedback, and numerous development opportunities, you will gain a strong career foundation in financial services. As integral members of the team, analysts are expected to make a personal impact right from the start. You'll gain an in-depth understanding of risk and learn how to manage it effectively. Bottom line impact places IB Risk right at the very heart of what we do as a business, which means your work will help us protect the capital of the firm and influence the performance of our Investment Bank across the entire product range.
Placement Analysts are placed into one of the following groups: • Credit Risk • Country Risk • Special Credits
Training is interdisciplinary, and you will learn about the firm's strategy and culture, as well as the broader Investment Bank. bSpecific segments of the program focus on core skills such as financial modeling, valuation analytics, accounting, corporate finance, economics, equity capital markets, debt capital markets and risk analysis.[/b] You'll also be trained on topics that cover financial instruments and real-world applications of theoretical concepts.
CRM is a front office position at JPM, maybe they renamed it to this.
From the JPMorgan career website:
Analysts are placed into one of the following groups: Credit Risk, Country Risk, Market Risk, or Special Credits. Read more about them in our IB Risk business area description.
So you are correct, IB Risk is an umbrella program that encompasses the above groups, including CRM.
its not BO, its not FO, gotta be MO!!!
bump, anyone else? anything about comp?
definitely not FO, as it's not the profit-generating component. sounds better than BO though
Risk is MO, its one of the few that actually is considered MO
You guys do realize you just responded to a three and half year old post right?
I blame black mamba
@IB-Risk311
6 years old now.
i blame obama?
can speak to crm being front office. not too familiar with the others.
JPM Credit Risk: The position is technically front-office, but in reality the day-to-day is middle office (little client interaction and no P&L). The analyst go to training with all the other IBD analysts (Coverage, FSG, SLF etc.) and get paid a little less but the pay is still FO like.
JPM CIB Market Risk? (Originally Posted: 02/03/2014)
Applied and heard back from HR for an Associate level role in this group; does anyone know anything about them? Website says its an independent risk group within the Investment Bank. Would this be considered a MO or BO role? Reasonable chance of lateraling to a more FO role or no? Hours and Comp?
Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
There are a couple groups in CIB Risk. Not sure about market risk but credit risk is FO and u specialize in industry coverage as well. Also, it's easier to internal transfer to a traditional banking group at JPM from CIB Credit Risk.
Since when is credit risk a front office function?
Market risk is a middle office function and hours are like 7 AM - 7 PM at JPM with similar base to FO roles but 20%-30% bonuses. Some people in the JPM group have latered to S&T in the past, not sure about recent or any other roles. If you are coming in as an associate, chances are you won't be lateraling since it's usually an analyst who wraps up his 2-3 years and transitions to front office as an associate.
would also like to know more. If it was cib risk at JPM vs ibd at like mizhuho/SocGen whats the better option? how would transitioning into ft ibd go (there or at another bank)?
how is JPM ib credit risk?
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