Is JP Morgan IB Risk Analyst FO or MO?

Some people in the forum said it's a front office role and some people said it's a middle office role. When all risk positions are basically MO, why is JP Morgan's risk analyst position any different? Does anybody have any experience with this program?

There seems to be conflicting answers based on previous posts.

 
sl7160:
I know a bunch of ib risk people and jpm considers it front office. That is why it's called investment banking risk and not just credit risk etc at jp. There are some arguments to be made since risk is MO at other banks.

Uh.... It's called IB because it is for the investment banking side of things rather than risk for the commercial bank which is a part of the finance division at JPM. Similarly, JP Morgan's operations division is called IB Ops. Does this mean that operations there is FO?

What makes you think JPM considers it FO?

 
FreezePops:
sl7160:
I know a bunch of ib risk people and jpm considers it front office. That is why it's called investment banking risk and not just credit risk etc at jp. There are some arguments to be made since risk is MO at other banks.

Uh.... It's called IB because it is for the investment banking side of things rather than risk for the commercial bank which is a part of the finance division at JPM. Similarly, JP Morgan's operations division is called IB Ops. Does this mean that operations there is FO?

What makes you think JPM considers it FO?

I have interviewed for the JPM Freshmen and Sophomore Summer Internship that is strictly geared towards Front Office divisions only on the investment bank side and they listed the choices: Investment Banking, IB Risk, Sales & Trading and Research as choices.

 

JPM IB Risk analyst are basically the Credit Analyst on deals. The coverage bankers reach to ecm,dcm,m&A, and the credit teams. IB Risk analysts work same hours as ibd analyst, they get paid same base and similar bonus. It is FO at JPM. You are active on deals but you also do traditional credit risk duties as well.

Much different then Credit Risk at like Barclays or MS.

 

yes, it's not a bank by bank distinction but at JPM it is definitely considered front office. comp is the same as coverage analysts and bonuses are identical. associate promotes receive the same sabbaticals, get the same ipads, everything is the same. in fact, IBD coverage and IB Risk at JPM practically work hand in hand when JPM is trying to pitch the client anything credit-related. that includes term loans, revolvers, HY issuances, LBOs, acquisition financing. don't comment on what you don't know geeks

comparable groups at other firms with large B/S are ICG @ Citi and Credit Risk @ Barcap. heard Barcap is paying its Credit Risk analysts 70k salary now.

 

I don't know if IB risk is considered front office or not at JPM (as far as I could tell they didn't source deals or fees and thus were not revenue generative) but they certainly did not work anything close to the same hours as IBD.

Having said that, in terms of analyst training / events they are indeed grouped in with ST and IBD- but once again, they don't generate revenues or meet with clients ( I think) so I'd say they seem to be a FO support group- not a bad thing, just not pure front office

 
Affirmative_Action_Walrus:
I don't know if IB risk is considered front office or not at JPM (as far as I could tell they didn't source deals or fees and thus were not revenue generative) but they certainly did not work anything close to the same hours as IBD.

Having said that, in terms of analyst training / events they are indeed grouped in with ST and IBD- but once again, they don't generate revenues or meet with clients ( I think) so I'd say they seem to be a FO support group- not a bad thing, just not pure front office

This is spot on, ultimately, IB Risk is not FO - primarily because looking at the risk of underwriting a client is not something that people employ a bank for.

It was just a misinterpretation of what FO is... The career line is not any less demanding (as far as smarts go.. hours is a different story) or less well paid, but it is not an inherently a revenue generating division (maybe, in a TO if another bank employs another bank's risk division, possibly, but god, I have NEVER heard of that happening.)

 

JPM has risk and ib risk are two different things. The ib risk team is revenue generating, tehy basically do the same thing that structurers do in s&t except they deal with larger value deals eg m&a and debt issues helping clients manage the risks associated with those deals. It's a value added service that clients actually pay extra for.

They also have a MO group which does the same risk analysis stuff that everyone knows.

 

You know this whole thing about FO/BO/MO really makes everyone's head spin.

First of all, I'm not sure when the term MO came to be but it really doesn't exist. A job function is either a profit or cost center; there's no in between, but that doesn't appear to translate exactly when people talk about FO/BO /MO. The fact that MO exists probably tells us that the line between FO and BO isn't so clearly laid out to begin with.

Secondly I think there's still ambiguity when people talk about what FO really means. It seems more people define it as revenue-generating, but I always thought of it as client-facing since ER is considered FO.

With that said, it's still your career on the line here. Rather than thinking about whether it's FO/BO/MO, focus on what the role actually entails and how it fits into your long term goals. For what's worth, I knew people who got ibd jobs but turned down by MO roles, and others who choose MO over FO.

 

@IB-Risk311

bengigi:

You guys do realize you just responded to a three and half year old post right?

6 years old now.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, post threads about how to do it on WSO.
 

JPM Credit Risk: The position is technically front-office, but in reality the day-to-day is middle office (little client interaction and no P&L). The analyst go to training with all the other IBD analysts (Coverage, FSG, SLF etc.) and get paid a little less but the pay is still FO like.

 

There are a couple groups in CIB Risk. Not sure about market risk but credit risk is FO and u specialize in industry coverage as well. Also, it's easier to internal transfer to a traditional banking group at JPM from CIB Credit Risk.

 

Since when is credit risk a front office function?

Market risk is a middle office function and hours are like 7 AM - 7 PM at JPM with similar base to FO roles but 20%-30% bonuses. Some people in the JPM group have latered to S&T in the past, not sure about recent or any other roles. If you are coming in as an associate, chances are you won't be lateraling since it's usually an analyst who wraps up his 2-3 years and transitions to front office as an associate.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

Nesciunt ullam aspernatur soluta omnis distinctio. Accusamus harum tempore quidem corporis enim facere labore. Ut magni et fuga animi accusamus ea non voluptatum.

Animi eligendi dolores assumenda est quaerat molestiae rerum. Sed maxime rerum laboriosam sed sit. Quis assumenda aperiam voluptatem aspernatur dolores modi itaque. Nam illo incidunt est totam.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”