Just How Bad Is This Job Market ?

It is impossible to try to even guess the statistics. I'll say this: I secured a banking job in Fall 2006. I'd never have secured a banking job in 2008, 2009, or 2010. Timing matters a lot. For those who were unfortunate enough to graduate in recent years, the opportunity was still there, the bar was simply set much, much higher.

I know this is impossible to determine, but what I'm really looking for is the answer to "Do I not have the job I want because my resume isn't good enough for where I want to be, or do I not have the job I want because the job market sucks right now and I'm actually qualified?"

Me and 10,000 others want the answer to that question.

Compbanker, you also managed to not get canned when the shit hit the fan which is impressive. (or you did, but you ended up in pe anyway?)

I'm interested in this as well. 2010 is supposed to be much better than 2008 or 2009 for example.

I know most of the complaints about a job-less recovery seems from the working class non-skilled or low-skilled jobs but how is it impacting IBD?

I'm graduating in 2012, it can only get better from now right? Even if its a double-dip recession.

well, while the stats are impossible to guess and I graduated in 2008 so I haven't ever seen a super-bright job market, I'm going to say that the answer is probably both. Perhaps in the frothy days of 2004-2006 you might have gotten the job in IBD, but that's not to say that you shouldn't have gotten one now. Even though the market is bad all the top banks are still hiring analysts and I'm sure if you had a 3.8 at an Ivy w/ 1500+ on SATs you'd have found yourself a BB IBD position in M&A or whatever other sexy group you were looking for. The reality is that, while we hear stories of non-targets getting good jobs on the street and its certainly possible, once you show up at a top firm it's hugely populated with people from top schools and great stats.

Now that I'm in China it's a different mix, but when I was in London at a different REPE firm before this I was stunned at how literally 95% of the analysts/associates were from Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, H/Y/P and Stanford. I went to an Ivy, but not one of the tops, and I still felt out-gunned by these kids skills and resumes. Even solid undergrad b-schools like ross and stern had 0% representation. And that was essentially true at the NYC office as well...

I'm not saying that you should be satisfied / complacent with your current position, but with a 3.5 from a seemingly non-target school, the fact that you got a job working in finance isn't bad considering market conditions. You may not get into IBD right away (or even in the next few years), but if you keep on fighting and improving yourself --- get promoted, lateral to a better AM firm, etc, you'll likely be able to go to a solid MBA. Maybe you'll be able to get an Associate position at a solid bank after that... It's probably hard and annoying to look so far down the road, but its a lot better than giving up.

Our first year analyst class was up 50%...of course that was after the 2008 slaughter.

Rumor is that we overhired and we'll probably see a much smaller class next year.

Our first year analyst class was up 50%...of course that was after the 2008 slaughter.

Rumor is that we overhired and we'll probably see a much smaller class next year.

You should try and put everything into perspective.

The job market right now is terrible, TERRIBLE, for the financial sector. Is the job market terrible for sectors like engineering, general sales, and various tech and IT jobs? Maybe pockets throughout the US, but those job markets are generally a bit stronger than finance right now.

As comp banker said it is all about timing. In 2006 banks would have been a lot more lenient and willing to discuss jobs/interview/opportunities with recent grads. Now they just want the best of the best.

One of my buddies dads is a partner at a larger consulting firm in the south east and he can't even get his son a job.

"even prop shops"

...do you know anything about trading?

A lot of those prop shops are better than the bank jobs, especially at the top tier firms like GETCO/Jane Street/SIG ect.

I know how you feel. I graduated this May, ex-football player, 3.4 gpa with double finance/accounting major. I thought I had a job lined up interning at Raymond James down in Tampa for 2 winters. 2009 comes around, and firms continues to layoff employees and impose hiring freeze. What I thought was close to a sure thing pretty much went down the drain. The trader that I interned under also was let go but was good enough to get hired somewhere else. Fortunately, I was able to procure a full time offer from a BB providing service to hedge funds.

For people like us, I think we have to be persistent, be knowledgeable in the industry you want to get into, and most of all, network like crazy to get what we want. The rest lies in a little bit of luck, and the good fortune of having professionals in your industry that's willing to take their time and help you out. WSO is a start. I've met a lot of people on here that's done a lot for me, people like monty09, CLGCTrader, shorttheworld, etc. Good luck

^great attitude. I think RKBanker has hit this one on the head. A bit of luck and keep working hard and it'll work out for you.

I know WSO is focused on B jobs post grad, but a world exists outside of finance.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2010-05-19-jobs19_CV_N…

I'd say stern is pretty much a target or if not it's definitely a "semi-target". Similar to Ross and UT McCombs... Stern has the advantage of being in NY so a lot of kids graduating from Stern have nice internships. USC and other UG business schools are less targetish, but you'll still see a few kids scattered around at good firms. This is obviously aside from "higher level" (whatever that means) UG business schools like Wharton (clearly the leader), Cornell AEM and MIT Sloan, where you see a ton of kids at good firms.

While there was a brief period of optimism early 2010 - which was reflected in the summer analyst class - I would say things are still pretty cold now.

Timing is everything, so is the demand for the positions.

My desk was starving for people when I graduated in 2009, and I was lucky enough (seriously) to know a friend's father who had a client that lived next door to the human resources representative that had casually mentioned the position. I hate saying that because it sucks and is impossible to replicate, but that's how I got in.

After you do break in though, which you will if you keep at it enough, you meet enough people and establish working relationships where these types of random connections are more available. I started off in ops because it was available (and mostly I hadn't started reading this site yet, where taking an ops job is akin to shoveling shit) and showed people that mattered that I could get shit done without having to be asked to do it.

Those skills are what will take you up.

I graduated December 2008 and this job market doesnt even begin to compare to off cycle 2008 grads. When I graduated it was the end of the world literally. After I finished my summer analyst position I had 3 "sure things" and when it was all said and done I didnt get any of those. The Market was going to zero. Things have dramatically improved in many other sectors but I think finance is dead last to recover. Places to tend to over hire in good times then over fire in bad times. The worst of everything is clearly behind us.

I hope you realize that applying to all those types of jobs probably makes you seem as-if you have literally 0 direction or specific interests. There are few to no similarities between any of those jobs. If your interviewer heard or realized that, it would be an auto-ding at many places. I know where I work (prop shop) frequently autodings very bright kids who, when asked about where else they are looking for employment, mention consulting or IB.

"If you let finace be twice as large (just because of the variety of roles), that's still only 15,000 spots for those 50,000 kids."

Finance is only twice as large as consulting? Also, twice as large would mean 10k spots, learn some math.

Also, 50k kids looking for finance jobs makes absolutely no sense.

hiring at my mbb is up

i know my friends at BBs were hiring laterals

looks better than 08/09

Nesto I feel your pain. I was a non-Ivy 2009 grad, basically my final fall semester sucked. I even considered law school.... Fortunately I was talked out of that. I remember my last recruiting season banks had signed up and a few even came to campus but by late september our campus career calendar was like a ghost town.

As Clemenza from the Godfather said, "These things gotta happen every five years or so, ten years. Helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one."

You were me last year bro - had a job but not the one I wanted because Wall St. had to hit restart. I had to go back to school to hop back on a more traditional recruitment path, which worked out. I used getting an MSF as a means to an end, you should consider it. Dont get discouraged it sucks at times, but you have to Jerry Rice everyone and out work them - show the banks you really want it.

Plus classes of 09/10 get to start careers after a recession, were buying the dip, so when the economy starts booming again we will be the "higher ups" and you know what that means $$$.

1) 1.5 million earn bachelors, 700,000 earn associates. AD doesn't count, so we'll say 1.5m.

2) You are at a top 10 b-school with a 3.5 gpa. Let's let that assume you are in the top 30% of your class.

3) To start, being in the top 30% of your class means you are in a better position than 1,050,000 students, leaving 450,000 to compete against.

4) Let's assume your top 10 b-schools is also a top 25 school. We can rule out the schools coming in outside of the top 50 (since non-targets make up a smaller fraction of WS jobs), effectively eliminating approx. (this is a low-ball guess) 80% of the remaining competition. This leaves you with 90,000 students to compete against.

5) Out of these 90,000, how many go to law school/med school/non-profits/other jobs. Probably a good number, kind of ridiculous to figure that out.

I obviously gave the numbers some room to pit you against the most possible applicants. I'd assume probably somewhere around 40-50k apply for finance jobs (including all BB's MMs boutiques). I don't know, is someone needing some case study practice that wants to take a crack at this?

It's bad. I've been unemployed since June.

This is my resume: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B6lf…

That asset management company you mentioned; is it hiring?

It is a good market for candidates who have done their homework. Keep your head down and don't stop trying.. Re-examine your strategy and perhaps commit to one area (eg S&T or IBD)

The job market in certain areas is a lot worse than last year, not quite as bad as 2008 though. Many banks overhired their 2010 SA class in expectation of an upturn.. now grads have to suffer (e.g. zero FT hiring in IBD ans S&T at JPM). Unfortunately these cycles are part of the business and always has been like that. Only thing you can do is to adjust your timing, by postponing graduation, doing another internship etc.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimated in 2000 that the number of annual college graduates would be about 1.24 million in 2008. So one can safely say that there are about 1.3 million college graduates entering the labor force each year.

http://www.bls.gov/opub/ooq/2000/fall/art01.pdf

All bitching aside, it is a terrible job market especially for recent grads.

I remember reading in WSJ or NYT that the reason for this persistently high unemployment rate is not that there are still massive layoffs, but that there is a huge drop in the hiring people. If you're currently employed, then you probably won't see sizable layoffs, but if you're unemployed, there is a real barrier to getting a job. This is especially true for college grads with no real experience.

Furthermore, the numbers for unemployment among recent grads are totally skewed because many recent grads didn't work in college or didn't pull enough hours to be considered part of the labor force. There was a joke of an article that said unemployment among college grads was calculated be less than 5% (by the gov't).

However, last winter some poll was taken for 2009 grads and found that more than half were unemployed or working part time in dead end jobs that used to be reserved for high school kids. Somehow, I doubt the situation is much improved for class of 2010.

Good luck on your job search monkeysama.

swagon - Im saying that because truthfully it seems like finance got to big. At one point it was like 13% S&P. Basically the industry is seeing a permanent contraction in its overall size. I guess thats a good thing because hopefully it gives the smart kids incentive to want to do other things. If all the smart people go to finance we arent going to have any doctors, engineers, or technology. Cant rely on an economy based around financial services have to produce something real. Unfortunately im not willing to give so hopefully able to squeeze another person into the already overcrowded elevator.

NestoGrande:

My guess would obviously be that supply is not meeting demand, even for those in the top 7% of grads.

Supply is far exceeding demand you dunce. Are you sure you went to a "target"?

The market this year is pretty poor, that is if you rely on campus recruiting or simply submitting your resume online. Companies have been extremely selective and are mainly taking their summer analysts (~90%) or those who have been referred internally (even from top schools). Companies are indeed hiring though, some more than others, but it is catered to applicants who have relevant experience, and networked, planned and prepared with great ardor.

For example, I go to a huge party school (non target), but spent more than a year preparing for recruiting season. 3 unpaid IB internships at small firms, and networked like it was a full-time job (5+ phone convos a week). Despite my lack my low caliber academic institution, I had interviews at many firms (~9 1st and 2nd tier IBs) and secured multiple offers. If you think your high GPA from a solid school will let you walk into your job of choice, please think again. Most of the target kids I interned with are struggling to get interviews, simply because they relied on their on-campus interviews instead of a solid networking strategy coupled with some due diligence.