Kelley MBA (Indiana University)
As a resident and with scholarships, my total cost of tuition for an MBA at Indiana University's Kelley School of Business would be only about $20k. Not per year, but total. I know Kelley is not in the MBA business schools">M7 or anything, but this is looking pretty good compared to the $150k+ that most top programs would cost. Is the OCR at Kelley so abysmal that it would justify spending the extra $130k elsewhere? Or would I have a good shot at IBD? Preferably for a BB, but MM would be alright.
only 20k for total two years of tuition and room &board? i'd say go for it. If you're at the top of the class at Kelley you can get into IBD- a lot of undergrads at Kelley are in IB. If IB doesnt work for you, you can still go into a F500 corp fin role and get paid 100k+ with excellent work life balance.
Even if I'm already accepted to schools in slots 5-10 on the top schools rankings?
I think the general consensus is that if you get in a M7 MBA program, it's worth it. But it's up to you.
I attended Kelley undergrad and had an awesome experience. So at least from an experience perspective, I'm sure you'll love it.
As for IBD recruiting, why don't you ask for historical employment statistics? I'm not sure how well Kelley MBA places into BB IBD. Do you care about being in NYC? That might be more difficult. If you're a top performer, I'm sure you could land a BB IBD gig in Chicago out of Kelley MBA. But anyway, ask to see where recent MBAs have landed in IBD - that will be your biggest clue.
Speaking of being a top performer, that might be a good reason to go to Kelley. The top students at pretty much all the top 25 MBA programs land great gigs. There will also be less competition. Tons of people will want to do IBD at schools in the 5-10 range, whereas you'll be competing with a smaller group at Kelley.
One downside might be that the long-term value of the network will be lower at Kelley - especially if you want to do IBD, where you will not be surrounded by many other Kelley MBAs. But if you do land a BB IBD gig, you'll have a great network anyway.
Good luck! If you decide to go, be sure to play Sink the Biz at Nick's as much as possible!
I don't know, personally, if I got into 5-10 schools, I'd take them over Kelly. There are a lot of "Ifs" in going to Kelly to land IB. If you're a top performer, If you're chosen for IB interviews, If top IBs recruit on campus that year, etc.
If you go to a 5-10, you know that even if your in the middle of the curve, you'll probably get at least a handful of IB interviews at most of the BBs and MM, and you know that most of the IBs will come on campus to recruit.
But again, its your life decision, but don't forget, once you do your MBA, there is no more "reset" button.
Couple things to consider here. One would be 'regret'. When a previous poster asked a hypothetical about choosing between Harvard and Darden...or a similar ranked school...one response was, "No one ever regretted going to Harvard." And maybe that isn't 100% accurate, but the point still stands.
Choosing a 'lesser' school comes with risk and along with risk comes regret should you fall short. On the flip side, you may make it from the lesser school and have a great story to tell one day.
I don't think it's a question of whether it's possible to get to where you want to be, it's more a question about probability. A higher ranked school lessen that risk and increases that probability because the brand name tends to be much stronger.
You have to determine how much regret you can potentially deal with should you not make it into BB, as well as MM or IB at all.
The schools I'm looking at are much more tightly grouped, so choosing between them is harder in one sense, but the negative impact appears to be much less. The farther your schools are away, the more difficult that decision is to make. If you are deciding between spending $20k for UNC or full cost for Duke...and you wanted to be in the SE and not interested in BB IB in NYC, then UNC becomes an easier choice since the brand names carry about the same weight in the South. However, if you wanted to go to NYC for BB IB, then Duke is the much, much safer choice.
You have to figure out if you are okay with MM banking in Chicago because that is presumably the more likely outcome. If you are perfectly fine with that and see BB IB in Chicago or NYC as merely icing on the cake, then Kelley doesn't seem like a bad choice.
At the end of the day, that $150k isn't a huge deal when compared to life time earnings BUT, remember that you are virtually obligated to either (a) pursue an intense career path (IB, PE or consulting), for several years in order to comfortably pay off the debt or (b) live significantly less comfortably for a lengthy amount of time paying off the debt with you pre-tax, $150k all-in pay for the corp fin gig...and I'm not bashing corp fin or anything, just picking some round numbers for illustration purposes. The question at that point is, just how bad do you want to be in IB. If you are unsure and think you might end up hating it, then Kelley might be the better choice, since the lower debt amount allows you to 'escape' the nightmare career path you would otherwise be stuck in.
Regards
Kelley MBA Impressions _ IB and AM (Originally Posted: 04/26/2015)
I'm writing this post after a visit to IU Kelley's program. During the visit I got to speak with a number of current students and the professors involved in managing their program and placement.
First things first: IU is definitely a non-target. However it still appears to be very possible to get into an IB position from the Kelley MBA program.
The major downsides are recruiting. Due to the location (Far away from any financial center) there is no on-campus recruiting to speak of. Last year they only had two companies show up on campus both of which were hiring for Asset Management roles. Another significant part of it is that they simply do not have many students at Kelley who want to go into finance. While it's widely known that interest in IB is down at almost all top-25 MBA programs, Kelley's financial sector is particularly hard hit due to the school's reputation as a marketing and consumer goods feeder.
Between the first and second year students, the number of MBA students that are pursuing Investment Banking is a single digit number.
There's a significant upside: every student that I spoke to who went after Investment Banking roles got an internship(1st year) or full time(2nd year) IBD offer, with about three quarters of those placements being with New York Bulge Bracket and the rest being in geographically diverse Boutiques. It wasn't easy. They all had to do significant networking, but their networking was effective as all of them spoke very highly of the loyalty that IU's alums have for current students.
For those interested in Investment Banking, Kelley also takes a unique approach with the career workshop. MBA's are partnered with undergraduate IB workshop teams, overseeing undergrad students on IB projects in a manner that simulates an associate role. All of the students described it as a fantastic learning experience but brutal in terms of time management: Kelley uses an integrated first-semester core in a manner similar to Emory and MIT's programs. At one point deliverables are due for seven different classes. In addition to that core IB students are also meeting with their undergraduate team several times weekly.
As with the undergraduate students the program director is, in his own word "very selective" about who he works with because, in his own words: "What I do not want to do is buff up an candidate, help get them an IB job based on my relationships, then have to show up for the job and get cut and find they are unemployed 1-2 years out of school. In short, I only take kids where I have confidence in their potential to perform on the job."
As far as overall impressions about the school I would say that the strongest aspects are the quality of the faculty and staff, as well as the culture. They were overwhelmingly open, willing to answer questions, and honest about both the strengths and weaknesses of the program. The current students were all extremely positive about their experiences at Kelley and the teaching quality. By far the biggest downside is a lack of brand name in the finance industry: although everyone did get jobs they had to do a lot of legwork on their end to make it happen.
Great post OP. Last month I visited the school and got a lot of the same impressions.
The Bad:
As you said, the presence for on-campus recruiting for MBA is pretty week. If you're interested in attending Kelley for IB/IM you're going to have to do a lot of the leg work yourself.
It's in Bloomington Indiana, definitely a college town. (This could also be a good thing, depending on your POV.)
The Good:
The capital markets academy is the smallest of the 5 academies. This graduating class only had only about 10 people in there last year. What's good about that is you only have 10 people reaching out to 1000s of Kelley grads in different positions across the US.
The CFA partnership. (For those of us who want to get into IM)
The overall cost. With what's left on my GI bill I could probably go full time, pay out of state and probably have less than 60k in debt.
Like you I also found the school very pleasant and the current students very friendly and open. I was invited to go play beer bong with many (at one point, almost all of) of the current class. Great times. Every person I spoke to immediately either pointed me in the direction or reached out to someone whom they though could help me. Along with speaking with multiple second year candidates who did secure IB positions at BBs in NYC, I got a call the next morning from another student who got a WM position with another BB (Think GS, MS) in Dallas. This call came about from a simple text from one current who I ended up talking with for a few minutes waiting for the bathroom.
Overall, I'm interested since I'm looking to get into an IM position in the Chicago area.
Thanks for the kudos.
I also feel obliged to point out that, as of today, you're wrong about the GI Bill Benefits. I just got an email a few hours ago saying that if you have a 100% Gi Bill rating and are between 90 days and 3 years of exiting service Kelley will be billing you as an in-state student. This brings debt down to whatever you pay for food and travel....and given the school's placements it's debt well leveraged.
For finance: If you prefer a competitive culture or access to OCR is your primary consideration you should probably look elsewhere. For PE/VC, go elsewhere: no current students that I met or looked up are on track for those roles.
I'd say that the school is a good fit for students who prefer a highly collaborative, tight-knit environment and are willing to do the work when it comes to recruiting the school should be looked at. One thing that stood out to me is that if you look at the number of students who want IB roles vs those who get them, Kelley (in spite of suffering from a small sample size) stands out: I can't think of any other schools where everyone who was in the IB-prep career track actually got an IB role.
One important thing I forgot to mention: there doesn't appear to be any demarcation between undergraduates and MBA's when it comes to placement. UG's regularly hit up MBA's for networking purposes and vice versa.
It's also worth pointing out that Kelley alums are amazingly supportive......I've been extremely impressed in that regard, and keep in mind that this comment is coming from someone who completed their undergraduate degree from a military college...a group of schools which are famous for ferociously loyal alumni.
Thanks for your additional comments.
When I visited I took the time to speak with the advisers in the Veterans center in the Memorial Union.
As I'm past 5 years out of service, I'll be considered out of State.
Luckily, If I would apply far enough in advance, I'll get the yellow ribbon bonus. (Thus eliminating the first semester's total cost. ) I'll also get full time benefits in regards to BAH and the book stipend.
However, since I only have a month of benefits left, I will not be receiving anymore benefits after the first semester and I'll be paying out of state for the rest of the way. That includes the second half of the first year.
Regardless, out of all the schools I'm looking to apply to, it's the most affordable. Of course, I make that statement with no idea of how much financial aid I'd be offered at any of the other schools I'll be applying for.
Thanks again.
bump
also interested
What are you interested in?
also interested
Do IU Kelley MBAs get into I-Banking? (Originally Posted: 02/21/2013)
Would it be worth it to go there if I wanted to get into the field?
Pretty sure they do. I know of lower-ranked b-schools that place MBAs in IB (McDonough and Owen among others)
There's one on my VC team. He did banking before that.
It depends on what your other options are.
I think undergrad gets more OCR and interest than MBAs from BBs.
MBAs tend to go more with MM groups (think Blair, Lincoln Int'l, GH&F, Baird). Doesn't mean it isn't possible to get to BB, just going to be more difficult.
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