So Knicks fans, you got your Carmelo Anthony. I have a feeling there's going to be a sharp divide between you guys as to how you feel about this.
I must say, as somebody who has always had a large amount of dislike (hatred) for both the Knicks (no offense to you guys, of course) and the Nuggets, I'm pretty happy about this deal...
Interested in hearing what you guys have to say.
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Still won't beat the Celtics or the Heat. Not sure why they even agreed to this since he made it clear NY was his first choice anyway. Should have just waited for free agency.
Yea, but who knows what the CBA will bring this off season...He wants to play in NY, but he wants his money too.
I think this is stupid for a number of reasons...
1.) Melo is getting over 20 mil a year from this contract extension. This means that the Knicks will not be able to sign another superstar to a max contract, especially with the salary cap restrictions to come (and next year's free agency class is redonkulous with Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard in it)...
2.) Melo plays no defense. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't dish out dimes. For a pure scorer, averaging 25 ppg is very pedestrian. If you're gonna be a pure scorer, at least average 30 ppg like Kevin Durant does...
3.) The Knicks gutted their roster to get him. They gave up three starters and a promising young center in Mozgov for Melo, an aging veteran in Billups (who I think is, at most, just as good as, if not worse, than Raymond Felton), and a bunch of scrubby role players...Oh, and Chauncey will demand a buyout of his contract...
4.) I'm a bitter Nets fan.
So there.
MELO is the best sf rebounder in the NBA right now.
You don't watch basketball much do you? You know a guy named Lebron James.... had a triple double in the Allstar game well he happens to play SF....
the league's second worst defense just got worse. hoping for a celts knicks matchup in the playoffs. how sweet a sweep would be
D'antoni has destroyed Amare with the minutes hes been forced to play. Heck there was no reason Amare played so much on Sunday even. The guy is going to get hurt again.
They really gave up the farm to get him. But if he makes it possible to get Paul/Williams/Howard next year, then it's obviously a great deal. If not, it's a huge mistake.
Don't worry, Denver has Erik Johnson now.
design, I think all your points were legit and you don't have to justify them by saying you're a bitter Nets fan. Melo to Nets would have been disastrous, and giving up Favors would have just been foolish.
marcellus - agreed, D'antoni's killed Amare, this could get very ugly for the Knicks in two years time
Also, I don't think Knicks fans should worry about giving up Felton (for Chauncey) and Mozgov...Gallinari wouldn't bother me either. However, I do think giving up an LSU beast in Anthony Randolph may prove to be what really comes back to haunt them.
By the way, I know Carmelo is an extremely talented player, nobody would debate that. However, there are different styles of talented player in this league, and there's something I've always wondered about Carmelo:
Is he the kind of player you can win with? I don't mean win 55 games in a season, talent will get that done, I mean the real deal. He strikes me more as an Iverson or Dr. J type talent (though more efficient offensively), that is very difficult to win with. What do you Knicks fans think?
Well Dr. J won a championship and Iverson essentially carried a team full of scrubs to the Finals in his prime. I think everyone is underestimating the impact of adding Melo to Amare. If the Knicks play any D they shouldn't have too much trouble winning scoring 100 pts a night. Melo/Amare is a deadly pick-and-roll combo and arguments about poor D don't really register with me. Hardly any team in the NBA plays good D these days.
It's good business in the short term
On behalf of the City and County of Denver...
Fuck.
lol is it possible both teams got worse, because that's what I'm thinking.
You got that sweet Minnesota pick though. This year's draft class is loaded btw.
It's definitely possible, and that's a good point about the pick. However, we finally have a good, solid team together, maybe not Championship quality, but decent contenders. We've never had that before, and as soon as the team gets working together like a team, they split it up. Now we have the pleasure of going through another 3+ year restructuring phase. I was just starting to get back into basketball, too. :/
nice
This is terrible for the Knicks because you put two basically pure scores on a team that are going to demand the ball who play in a similar area of the floor doesn't sound too good. But well see
This is a sad day for Knicks fans.. This trade has Isiah Thomas written all over it.. overpaying despite having the strongest hand.. Probably means he'll replace Donne Walsh when he steps down this (next?) summer..
Picked up Corey Brewer as well.
Look out for others to start trying to make it on to the Knicks roster - already Deron Williams and CP3 have made statements about their desire to play with Amar'e and now Melo in NY.
In the end, this is good for business - the entire league benefits.
If this is true and the Knicks land Deron or CP3 I'm not sure any D could stop them. They'd win games like 125-120 every night.
Not sure it's that simple. You don't see the Heat's three winning 125-120 every night, and those three are far more lethal than any combination of Melo, Amare and insanely talented guard (who is probably better than Melo.)
You guys are crazy. This has been the best overhaul the Knicks have had in a while. The reason you dont wait until free agency is because both teams plus Melo would get screwed. Melo gets more $$ this way and both teams clear up money to rebuild and you get players who MIGHT help you. If not dump'em in the off season. Chauncey is sick @ the PG. Don't let his age fool you, he knows how to win and take a team to the promise land. He isn't a 30+ Iverson or Marbury, this guy is a winner. You can also get a college kid and let Chauncey come off the bench and coach the kid. I still think the Celtics are the best in the east but it just became a little more difficult for them. Mind you I'm in LA so I'm a Lakers fan not a Knicks fan but good business is good business.
I'm a lifelong Knicks fan and like the trade. It would have been so much better if Walsh had just been able to play his hand the way he wanted to (no Gallo, no Mozgov) and it's a shame that Dolan is such an awful owner (Exhibit A: Why the fuck is Isiah still even MENTIONED in a NYK article??) and freaked. However Melo is one of the best pure scorers in the NBA and I can see him flourishing in D'Antoni's system. He's also only 26 years old...only one year older than LeBron and younger than DWade. That's very important as his scoring ability is going to take some off of Stoudemire's older and more worn knees. People are forgetting about Chauncey Billups. I know he's 34...but the guy can score. I think most Knicks fans should will remember last years game at the Garden vs. the Nuggets (the one where Gallo had the disgusting dunk and the Knicks won). Melo and Chauncey were excellent out there together, and Billups was far and away the best player on the court. Yeah we gave up our depth, but top-10 guys like Melo don't come around that often. We could have risked it and gotten him in free agency, but as last summer showed us there are no guarantees. Because we have no height anymore (fingers crossed for an Earl Barron signing) there's no way we can beat the Celtics...but we won't be the 7/8 seed. Our team definitely matches up favorably against the Hawks (how's that max contract doing Joe Johnson?) and the Magic (Howard will be a beast but then again he's the best C in the league) and could definitely hang with the Bulls in a 7-game series. I'm glad we got to keep Fields who leads all guards in rebounds and Bill Walker will turn into an absolute beast given more playing time. Yeah we play no defense, but then again Gallo wasn't exactly a shutdown defender. We're gonna miss Chander's blocks and Mozgov...well...being made Blake Griffin's bitch. And finally, Eddy Curry is gone.
^^^I wouldn't overestimate Dr. J's championship, they were supposed to win forever, could never get over the hump. Finally won with a supremely talented team.
Same for A.I., he had one good run (in an awfully weak year even for the East's standards), but it was never going to be enough with his style of play to really go all the way. BTW, I wouldn't say that was a team of scrubs compared to the other teams in the East (compared to any team in the West, absolutely), the 76er's had a very good defense that year (Dikembe, Eric Snow, Raja Bell, Theo Ratliff), I know Snow and Bell aren't that good, but it's good defense and Dikembe in his prime with Theo in the front court equals scary good post D; and, of course nobody is saying A.I. wasn't talented. If you look at the other teams in the East that season, nobody had a defense like that and nobody was particularly talented on offense either (except for Orlando), but that's neither here nor there.
I asked about Carmelo as a real question though, I'm genuinely curious as to whether people feel you can win with him and so I'm interested to hear your points.
Yeah that "easily" was a little rough...
haha alright cause D. Rose in contention for MVP.... and D. Will..well he plays for Utah... he is top 5 I would say but easily the best no way... its hard to really make a case for easily the best at any position in the NBA..minus Lebron at SF
I would say Howard at pure C is pretty close to easy, but I agree with your overall premise.
Eh maybe Bynum...if he can ever be healthy....
Not really, Howard's a bit overrated to be honest. His defense isn't as good as the numbers suggest. There was a metric I saw concerning points prevented per block and he was among the lowest in the league in that category because he blocks everything out of bounds giving the offense another possession. Whereas Tim Duncan had half as many blocks but prevented more points so far. He also disappears for big stretches of the game on defense, and while his help defense and lateral movement are very good, I wouldn't consider him an all-time defensive center.
Also, his offense is just hideous.
In a league of weak centers it's hard to really make a case for anybody else, but I would certainly entertain a Pau Gasol argument (even with all of his flaws.) I think it's at least debatable, and, trust me, I can't stand the Lakers.
I would agree that Deron has a very complete skillset (and is obviously a top flight PG, nobody would dismiss that), but there is no one thing he does better than any of the elite PG's in the game. All around game does not necessarily mean "best." Think of Courtney Lee who is a very "complete" player at his position (obviously he's not as good at his position as Deron is at his), he can shoot, he can play physical, he plays defense, he can dribble, just isn't spectacular at enough of those things. Deron certainly doesn't run an offense as efficiently as CP3 or Rondo, and he certainly can't get to the hole with the same kind of consistency as CP3, R. Westbrook and, of course, D. Rose. He's also a streaky shooter known for having long cold spells. I admit, he is a scary good shooter in the 4th quarter.
Also, in today's game with all the hand-checking rules he's at a bit of a disadvantage. His size and strength is superior to most PG's in the game, and, in 1988 he would've been able to use that to abuse PG's on the perimeter. In today's game, with that taken away from him, it's not as easy for him to stay in front of the CP3's and Derrick Rose's the same way that somebody with as much vertical quickness as a Rusell Westbrook or Rajon Rondo can.
I agree he's not a pure center in the traditional sense at all, but with the fact that Bynum never plays, Pau plays enough center where I think that's how you have to judge it (especially in today's league where pure centers are far and few between), and then you have to say who is better for their team at that position. I'm not so sure Howard's contribution to his team at that spot is as large or of as high quality as Pau's is, especially in big spots.
I could go either way, but I think it is a debate.
once it becomes a debate the idea of "easily" out the window so I go back to my point the only "easily" you can say at any position in the NBA is Lebron at SF
Melo to Knicks!!! The league has some problems now. Hate to have to defend that night.
Haha easily might have been an overstatement. But I did say I forgot about D Rose.
CP or D williams will not end up in NY. The CBA most likely will have a hard cap and implement franchise tags. The Knicks are going to have to get a cheap free agent after this year as they pretty much have no draft picks for the next few years. I agree with a lot of the above posts, this acquisition definetly does not address NY's main problem, defense. Even with Melo i still think they will be the 4th, possibly 5th, best team in the East. Turiak is solid but not nearly good enough to hang with the likes of Noah, Big baby/pekins/shaq, or howard. This is a great PR move but not sure it really addresses the key issues the Knicks have...They will look a lot like last year's Suns...
Rebelcross, you clearly know a lot about basketball which i respect because i too am a big fan. Agree with you on a lot of shit but definetly not this years draft class being stacked... seems pretty weak to me.
Appreciate your compliments, yeah I guess you could say I'm a pretty big fan. We can disagree on this year''s draft class.
I do spend way too much time going through all the highlights of top high school players (yes I have no life and a passion for sports, so what) and then following them through college, I also spend way too much time looking up player highlights, scouting reports on rivals.com, etc. (lol, don't ask why, it's not like I get paid to do this, I just enjoy it.) I've noticed quite a few talented players this year. Of course, it's just my opinion based on what I've seen so it could be completely wrong but I feel like there are more talented players in this year's draft than there's been in a while. Admittedly, there's no solid D. Rose / K. Durant caliber "1" this year, but I feel like the 3-10 range is especially strong, and there are a lot of gems hidden throughout which is something we haven't seen in year's past (i.e. last year we had John Wall, Favors and Cousins then a huge drop-off with only four players with possible big upside the rest of the way: Aminu, Wesley, Bledsoe and Patterson.) This year there's quite a few guys that could really change a team:
Perry Jones - actually could turn out to be the big time "1" that this year's draft seems to be lacking, K. Durant level size and skill, should be a game changer
Maybe Derrick Williams - haven't seen enough of him, from what I've seen, so far, looks like a dominant scorer
Kemba Walker (falling on draft boards due to size) - I feel like he's a D. Wade level scoring talent, very explosive and can get any shot he wants, he'll be a steal outside of the top 10 as far as I can tell
Kyrie Irving - has all the tools to be a top-level pure PG down the road, he's the most "pure" PG since CP3 (with the exception of John Wall), very talented player
Terrence Jones - I've been watching a lot of him this year, I just feel like he's a monster and will be a matchup problem in the NBA
Brandon Knight - sneaky good talent, will be a steal to the team that gets him after 10
C.J. Leslie - the kid is an absolute animal. If he learns how to actually play basketball and not just rely on his physical gifts, forget it; will be a steal late in the draft
Maybe Josh Selby - super gifted player, but I don't feel like he's a winner. Won't be efficient at the NBA level, is a score-first pg. I think he's more likely to be a bust or somebody who puts up big numbers on a bad team, but I include him because he's talented enough to become something if he ever gets his head on straight
Maybe Jared Sullinger - high bust potential, but if he lays off the hamburgers and doesn't become 300 pounds in two years, he does have enough sick post moves to be something of a poor man's Carmelo Anthony
Some late round guys that I feel could be something are: McCamey, the two Texas guys (who are rising, so may not be late round anymore), Deandre Liggins (has a body like Craig Smith), Shabazz Napier, and call me crazy but I also feel like Kyle Singler can be decent (has sneaky good moves to the hole and plays a physical game with a mean streak)
I feel like with that high Minnesota pick, Denver can definitely land a big time player this year, and with all their other picks there's no reason they can't land another blue chipper or two with all the depth in this year's draft.
HFF weak relative to 2003? 2005? or weak relative to what....
The Knicks just got rid of one of the most promising, youngest, and exciting supporting casts in the league. In return, they got a player that will not help them win anything meaningful, a player that is not a winner, never was and never will be. Sure he'll help them score and sell seats but scoring 130 points means nothing if the other team scores 130+. I'm a fan of billups but the guy is old and out of the league in a few years.
-Knicks Fan
Never was a winner? NCAA doesn't matter to you obviously.
As a lifelong Syracuse fan, I have to disagree...
Not that I agree or disagree, but you have to do better than that. Winning at the college level is a very different animal than grinding your way through the NBA Playoffs.
Rebel, wow great insight into the draft class. I do not spend enough time watching the college level guys so my comments should be taken with a grain of salt. I just personaly think this year doesn't have any studs but instead some solid role players, completely agree with you that i think Selby will be a big bust. Denver needs to get rid of the cancers (JR Smith and Kenyon Martin). Yeah they both have talent but are complete thugs. I am a huge Rockets fan who purchased the NBA package for direct tv and although i usually am a big supporter of our GM, he has really let me down lately (we have way to many guards). Regardless of my rambling, i still don't think NY has a shot over the next few years and will be destined to, at best, a few Eastern conference finals losses. I just don't see the Knicks matching up with the Bulls, Heat, or Celtics unless they can find a solid defensive presence inside (highly doubtful). The knicks will be completely fucked in 2 years when Amare's legs fall off at the knees due to constant bone on bone...
Wow, coincidence-much? I'm a lifelong Rockets fan too. Can't stand what our, usually talented, GM did to us. Though, it was downhill ever since the asinine firing of Van Gundy and the more "offense oriented" approach. We were really on the upswing too, one or two pieces away from something special (we also played with more character than anybody in the league at that time.)
Now we're shopping Battier around, which I don't even know how to react to...sure he's not doing any good wasting his time with an irrelevant Houston team and he's not getting any younger, but he's so sneakily good and has such a high basketball IQ that I don't want to see him go (and I know we're not getting anything for him anyway.) Somehow they thought Kevin Martin would be a better contributor to the team than Carl Landry. Kyle Lowry's finally getting the playing time he deserves. I think Aaron Brooks is actually underrated, but the coach hates him. Remember years ago when they couldn't even get a competent PG (Bob Sura anybody?), now they don't know what to do when they have them. Don't even get me started on how badly they've screwed this thing up.
Kyrie Irving didn't play most of the season due to injury. That's a red flag if I'm a GM. Obviously, Irving's situation isn't as bad as Greg Oden's, but it's something that I would definitely take into consideration if I was deciding who to draft.
Another player that I think will be good is Harrison Barnes. I think he's really underrated.
Agree, you always have to take an injury into account. If he drops because of it he could be a big time steal. There is a difference between a big man with bad knees and a PG who sustained an injury and is playing it cautiously so as not to reinjure it. We'll see what happens, but he's definitely got the tools.
I'm actually not sold on Harrison Barnes yet, I've seen flashes but...he's just lacking something. Explosiveness maybe? Quickness? He also disappears a lot. I don't know, I need to see a little more. Anyway, it's just my opinion. If he's a stud next year in the NBA, feel free to bump this back in my face.
rebel, i hated giving up Landry so much. I have no clue why we have 5 legit guards and no solid big man. I LOVE Scola but feel so bad for him floundering with the Rockets. Courtney Lee is legit and i wish we'd hold on to him and deal Battier, Brooks, and K-Mart for some solid young guns/more picks. I have conceided to the fact that this year is solely a rebuilding year but will not give up on them..
red and yellow for life
I'd love to move K-Mart out of there, he's a liability on the court, impossible to win with. I'd like to hold onto Battier for character, defense, help set the tone of the team going forward, etc. But yeah, it's a rebuilding year, only problem is we're not only not rebuilding anything, but getting consistently worse. At this point we'll have half as many wins next year. Sigh...
Like the above poster said...red and yellow for life
Next up...
Nets get DWill
D-Will is solid but still think the Nets are a few solid pieces away frome even coming close to being a contender.
As a Nets fan, I don't know how I feel about that trade. Yeah, we get D-Will, but maybe for only 1.5 seasons, after which he might go and join his BFF's at Madison Square Garden...Williams can't sign a contract extension until July, so there's nothing stopping him from jumping ship if he decides he doesn't like his situation in NJ after the end of next season...
also you had a solid point guard in DHarris he just had no help... I don't really see how this makes much sense.
Yeah, but Harris has been awful though. It's like he's gotten 30% worse every year. Give up Harris for something and pick up a guard along the way (draft, FA), sure, but don't give up the whole infrastructure of your team.
Yeah, I really didn't want the Nets to give up Derrick Favors, either. He's going to turn into something special. I think if the Nets just kept their 5 first-round draft picks over the next 2 years, they could have built a playoff-caliber team through the draft. They won't immediately be a playoff team, obviously, but they would have been well on their way...
D. Will is a special talent, but I think it's shocking how easily the Nets were willing to part with Favors. I agree with design above, I think Favors is going to become something very scary for opposing teams.
I'm surprised, and with all the picks they gave up is there any possibility they can surround D. Will with half of what he had in Utah over the next 5 years? So where do they expect this team to go? I wouldn't feel good about this if I were a Nets fan.
I don't know what's gotten in the water of GM's around the league, whatever happened to wanting to build a monster front court? Look at every champion from the past 20 years, they didn't necessarily have an elite pg, but they all had a front court. In fact, last elite pg to win it was Isiah, who played on a team that also had big time down low defense,
Mikhail Prokhorov is probably banking on there being a franchise tag in the new CBA...He's putting a lot on the line though...
The farm has been completely gutted, hopefully the Knicks will spend like the Yankees this off-season.
i'm just gonna say this:
the nets played the knicks like a fiddle ballooned up the price for melo, then got an arguably better player for much cheaper
Played Knicks like a fiddle: Yes Much cheaper: No
Who in that Knicks deal between Chandler, Gallinari and Mozgov has the kind of upside that Favors has? Would you even trade all three of them straight up for a high 1st round pick (I wouldn't)? Utah got Favors and two high first round picks over the next two years.
DWill can either sign an extension in July, or become a FA after the new CBA is put in place. It's very likely the extension will offer DWill a LOT more money than what he can get in the FA market under the new CBA provision. I think the Nets played this one very well.
Why can't they surround D-Will with good talent? Lopez is having a down year, but once he remembers how to rebound he'll be the second best center in the league. The only bad contract they have is Travis Outlaw's, and even then it's not horrible. The rest of the guys are signed to reasonable contracts. They still suck balls now but I think they're in a good position to build from here.
Johan Petro's contract is fucking awful and there's no team willing to take it on. As for being able to surround D-Will with good talent, there are no standout players in the upcoming free agent class (maybe David West, but that's a stretch) and the Nets gave two lottery picks to Utah in the trade for Williams. They are better off saving their money for the Dwight Howard sweepstakes next year, and even then, it's not like NJ is the runaway favorite to get him. He seems to like Orlando. All of this hampers NJ's bid to become a championship-caliber team. As a Nets fan, I hope for the best and expect the worst...
And now cavs get baron...
arguably the worst trade in history.
Look up "asinine" in the dictionary and you will see a picture of that trade.
I feel bad for Baron Davis. LA guy through and through and just got fucked by the long dick of Clippers ineptitude
celtics give up perkins for green... Umm the OKC? championship run in two years yes.
The NBA legitimately turned into a circus in the hours before the trade deadline...Nate Robinson and Kendrick Perkins to OKC for Jeff Green and Nenad Krstic. Gerald Wallace to Portland for Joel Pryzbilla. DJ White and Mo Peterson to the Bobcats for Nazr Mohammed. Shane Battier to Memphis for Hasheem Thabeet. Aaron Brooks to the Suns for Goran Dragic.
My head is spinning...
This is a fascinating trade, I think OKC is legit now, this is a big time piece for them. Surprising from the Celts perspective that they went and broke up what looked like a very good thing, but getting Jeff Green in return...??? Very intriguing trade.
As a Rockets fan, if you told me last year that I would be giving up Aaron Brooks and Shane Battier for Goran Dragic and Hasheem (not even in the NBA anymore) Thabeet...I probably would have left the country or something.
Ya, personaly i was very happy with the rockets' moves. We got a first rounder out of it and finaly unloaded a guard. Rebel, what do you think about our boy Daryl's moves?
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