Varies according to a lot of variables but assuming you are referring to the typical coverage/M&A group:

If fresh out of B-School, then associate hours are identical to that of analysts If you're a A-to-A promote, then hours are much, much better (maybe 20-30 hours less than regular analysts), because of 2 reasons:

a.) You know how to do everything so all tasks take 1/3 ~1/2 the time it would take a fresh new Harvard/Wharton MBA. b.) Assuming you've gotten promoted, it means you've built up enough credibility and trust from your senior bankers so you're now in a more confident position to delegate work and enforce a bit more seniority. On the other hand, if a fresh new career switcher MBA comes in and immediately tries to "delegate" and "manage" analysts, he will get shit on hard - that's a right they've gotta earn after putting in a few years - something that an A-to-A promote had already done.

This is based on my observations during my stint at a BB.

 

Let's not get this specific. There is never a standard working hour window. The window will shift drastically based on the bank, group and underlying credit/m&A/equity market. rx's explanation above is accurate. A person who has established rep in the group (assuming they've been a solid performer), will typically have better hours than someone just hitting the desk.

 

A major reason why work hours tend to decrease is efficiency. First year analysts avg around 85 hours a week ofc this all depends on group, location, deals etc. Second years average around 75 hours, about 5 of those hours are gone because of increased seniority and another 5 are gone due to increased efficiency. A fresh mba might be putting in 90 hour weeks because he cant work efficiently, while an A to A guy might be working 70.

 

I'm an A to A and honestly it varies. Yes you should be up to speed and therefore more efficient and be able to leave earlier than the MBA associates on average. But I was also in the situation where due to my previous experience as an analyst and legacy files, I was put on many of the high profile M&A mandates and so I actually went through periods where I put in far more hours. Meanwhile the MBA associates were just doing pitches and leaving by 9pm. All depends on group and the deals on your plate.

 

This, I'm an A to A as well and have had several weeks where I'm putting in more hours than my MBA stub counterparts. I had a 120 week the other week which I haven't had since back my first year as an analyst. I get a lot more intense staffings, have a lot of legacy clients that pop up and there are certain VPs that let me run the show (deal execution, leading certain calls, company positioning, MP drafting, putting the shell together, etc) due to my experience which is good for my development but sucks for my lifestyle when it's just one of your staffings. I'm also not dropping work off on my analysts plate and going home. When working on live deals or big board books / pitches, I'm pretty much at the office as long as my analyst...maybe slightly less while they wrap something up. From what I've seen, it doesn't start getting better on average until the latter half of your second / third year when you pretty much have your client base and aren't getting staffed on a ton of new stuff. Even then, on a live deal or big book, you get crushed.

And to the above poster, yes people do not average 100 hours a week in my experience but generally all analysts at BBs average more than 72-74. I would say most groups will average in the 80-85 range over 6 days with a number of weeks being far above and less weeks being below.

 
undefined:

This, I'm an A to A as well and have had several weeks where I'm putting in more hours than my MBA stub counterparts. I had a 120 week the other week which I haven't had since back my first year as an analyst. I get a lot more intense staffings, have a lot of legacy clients that pop up and there are certain VPs that let me run the show (deal execution, leading certain calls, company positioning, MP drafting, putting the shell together, etc) due to my experience which is good for my development but sucks for my lifestyle when it's just one of your staffings. I'm also not dropping work off on my analysts plate and going home. When working on live deals or big board books / pitches, I'm pretty much at the office as long as my analyst...maybe slightly less while they wrap something up. From what I've seen, it doesn't start getting better on average until the latter half of your second / third year when you pretty much have your client base and aren't getting staffed on a ton of new stuff. Even then, on a live deal or big book, you get crushed.

And to the above poster, yes people do not average 100 hours a week in my experience but generally all analysts at BBs average more than 72-74. I would say most groups will average in the 80-85 range over 6 days with a number of weeks being far above and less weeks being below.

70 isn't too far off for our 1st yrs. They all game the system super hard and leave by 8-9 consistently
 

It all depends on you, your group and your boss. IMHO, here are the top three considerations:

  1. How efficient are you? After three years as analyst, can you draft a CIM, pitch, MP, LP, from start to finish? At the Associate level, you'll be given the opportunity to lead the charge on engagement letters, lead calls, run drafting sessions, etc. What role are you playing now and what role do you have want to play? If you want to lead negotiations or add value during documentation calls, you will need to invest time outside of the deadline-oriented work to get up to speed. Remember as an associate (even as an MD), you follow the client's schedule. They don't follow yours.

  2. How many people on your team? Important to know for facetime, delegating to and managing analysts, dealing with your staffings with VP's/Directors/MD's that still all view you as an analyst vs. a freshly minted MBA, who despite being fresh meat, may seem more mature, esp if they are older. Also, banks and teams are having to do more with less, meaning reduced print shop hours and personnel, smaller analyst and associate classes, etc.

  3. Finally, what kind of bank and group? Bulge, MM, Boutique, or a bank that is mid-size but does huge deals. The politics, staffings, etc. will all matter for your hours (pitching, live deal work, etc.). If it's a more work/life oriented bank, at the associate levels, things could be better.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 

I know this is kind of petty, but I have to take a second to break down the '100 hour work weeks' concept that seems to come up around here almost everyday. It seems like a lot of people sort of ignore the fact that there is only 168 hours in a week and I just find the figure a little unreasonable. I believe that it's possible that this happens once a quarter or something, but having had worked a 100 hour week does not mean you work 100 hour weeks...

Let's break this down:

If you're literally working every calendar day (7 days per week), this is a little more than 14 hours and 15 minutes at work per day. If you add a 20 minute commute (which sounds fair to me) and 10 min to get dressed and shave etc you're still left with a cozy 8 or so hours to sleep if that's your whole existence. But I think most would agree that analysts/associates aren't working 365 a year and I think many companies 'protect' one weekend day though I could be wrong on that.

So lets consider the much more 'reasonable' 6 day work week which averages 16 hours and 40 minutes 6 days a week. That's a cool 8am-1am without any other aspects of life thrown into the mix.

I've had some pretty memorable experiences with sleep deprivation and the hallucinations and other effects that come with it and this was while being fairly active and not sitting quietly behind a desk where it would be much harder to stay awake. I just don't see it as being all that plausible that bankers are doing this every week back to back. I suspect people are wrapping their commutes and happy hours and other factors into this along with really just some good old fashion exaggeration.

I have no doubt that banking is a truly mentally and physically challenging and that every now and then during a deal this mark is met, but from my limited visibility and relationship with folks it seems like 830am-930pm Monday-Friday and maybe 8 hours on 3x Saturdays per month would be a more fair assessment (73 hours a week average). This of course would surge higher occasionally.

Am I missing something?

 

You're right that people always inflate their hours; it's a red badge of courage sort of thing.

You're wrong both on the 73 hours a week and the start time. Nobody is getting in there at 8:30. It's 9:30 for analysts and can be 10:00 if you're consistently there late. As an analyst there's also no way you're leaving at 9:30 as a first-year, simply due to inefficiency. Call it 9:30-12:30 four days a week, 10-10 the fifth, and an additional 10-12 hours spread across the weekend and you're looking at 82-84 hours.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Believe me, 120+ hour work weeks are possible. Are you working the whole time? No, but you can physically be in the office that entire time. Having any kind of commute for a shop with strong deal flow is suicide. Those precious minutes can be spent sleeping, masturbating, or whatever else it is that you do. Hitting 90 hour work weeks back to back for extended period of times is an unfortunate reality. The idea that you get a solid 8 hours of sleep is comical at best. Your body acclimates and you learn to function with less, I find that 4 is the minimum to keep from losing efficiency and accuracy in my work. People may vary, but I think it's a good rule of thumb. Protection and respect of personal time is all a façade. When things get bad, they get bad, and that is an industry norm that is damn near impossible to avoid. In regards on the transition from A - A I'll provide light on that in a separate comment as I believe they are two different subjects.

 

I worked 90-100 hour weeks consistently and can't recall ever working a week below 70 (except maybe around Christmas). I've also worked 120 per week for a month straight, though this was before the "Saturday rule." There is a lot of variance between banks and groups, but some get very consistently crushed.

Trust me, it's very possible. Maybe go try the experience, rather than speculate based on napkin math - you do what it takes to win. End of story.

 
undefined:

I worked 90-100 hour weeks consistently and can't recall ever working a week below 70 (except maybe around Christmas). I've also worked 120 per week for a month straight, though this was before the "Saturday rule." There is a lot of variance between banks and groups, but some get very consistently crushed.

Trust me, it's very possible. Maybe go try the experience, rather than speculate based on napkin math - you do what it takes to win. End of story.

I guess those are just lessons I haven't been able to learn yet as an Army Infantry Officer, but thanks for the MS.

 

Whether you're an Analyst or Associate, 9:30-12:30 four days a week, 10-10 the fifth, and an additional 10-12 hours spread across the weekend for 82-84 hours seems pretty easy. If it's 830am-930pm Monday-Friday and maybe 8 hours on 3x Saturdays per month as someone posted above, that's even easier. IB hours definitely do not seem as bad as people claim.

 
undefined:

Whether you're an Analyst or Associate, 9:30-12:30 four days a week, 10-10 the fifth, and an additional 10-12 hours spread across the weekend for 82-84 hours seems pretty easy.
If it's 830am-930pm Monday-Friday and maybe 8 hours on 3x Saturdays per month as someone posted above, that's even easier. IB hours definitely do not seem as bad as people claim.

Because those don't take into account the random weeks where you will pull 2 or 3 back to back all nighters and start blacking out from lack of sleep. Or the weeks where you spend 36 hours in the office on the weekend after already putting in 80 hours during the week, Those are the weeks that make you miserable, not the weeks you mentioned above,

 
Best Response
undefined:

Whether you're an Analyst or Associate, 9:30-12:30 four days a week, 10-10 the fifth, and an additional 10-12 hours spread across the weekend for 82-84 hours seems pretty easy.
If it's 830am-930pm Monday-Friday and maybe 8 hours on 3x Saturdays per month as someone posted above, that's even easier. IB hours definitely do not seem as bad as people claim.

"Seem," you cretin. Even if you lived just those 85 hours and no more for two years straight, you'd look back with no small horror at your poorer health, worse relationships with family and friends, and lack of intellectual stimulation.

Factor in the not infrequent weeks where your hour count soars north of 90 ... the litany of dinners or drinks you had to cancel (or worse, be at and then have to leave) ... the weekends you absolutely lose when an email comes in at 11am Saturday that guarantees your imprisonment for 30 of the next 40 hours ... the times you actually practice the 'magic roundabout' when the car that takes you home at 9am stays downstairs to wait while you shower, shave, and return straight to the office ... the consecutive all-nighters that give you a headache that doesn't leave for 5 days ... there's no "that's even easier" and "do not seem as bad" any more.

In the grand scheme of things, being a banker is a first-world problem. You sit in air-conditioned offices in expensive chairs using your fingers on a keyboard and your eyes to look at a screen. It isn't physically taxing like bricklaying, janitorial work, or welding. It's mentally strenuous, however. It grinds on you. I've had both types of jobs; each kills you in a different way.

Moral of the story: don't talk shit unless you've lived through it (and beaten it). People do glamorize the hours, but it's with a grim sense of humor or braggadocio to cope with a shitty lifestyle.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
undefined:
undefined:
Whether you're an Analyst or Associate, 9:30-12:30 four days a week, 10-10 the fifth, and an additional 10-12 hours spread across the weekend for 82-84 hours seems pretty easy.If it's 830am-930pm Monday-Friday and maybe 8 hours on 3x Saturdays per month as someone posted above, that's even easier. IB hours definitely do not seem as bad as people claim.


"Seem," you cretin. Even if you lived just those 85 hours and no more for two years straight, you'd look back with no small horror at your poorer health, worse relationships with family and friends, and lack of intellectual stimulation.

Factor in the not infrequent weeks where your hour count soars north of 90 ... the litany of dinners or drinks you had to cancel (or worse, be at and then have to leave) ... the weekends you absolutely lose when an email comes in at 11am Saturday that guarantees your imprisonment for 30 of the next 40 hours ... the times you actually practice the 'magic roundabout' when the car that takes you home at 9am stays downstairs to wait while you shower, shave, and return straight to the office ... the consecutive all-nighters that give you a headache that doesn't leave for 5 days ... there's no "that's even easier" and "do not seem as bad" any more.

In the grand scheme of things, being a banker is a first-world problem. You sit in air-conditioned offices in expensive chairs using your fingers on a keyboard and your eyes to look at a screen. It isn't physically taxing like bricklaying, janitorial work, or welding. It's mentally strenuous, however. It grinds on you. I've had both types of jobs; each kills you in a different way.

Moral of the story: don't talk shit unless you've lived through it (and beaten it). People do glamorize the hours, but it's with a grim sense of humor or braggadocio to cope with a shitty lifestyle.

Agreed. I think a lot of students think that averaging 80+ hour weeks will be nothing because on paper it seems doable. But when you're actually doing it for an extended period (such as 2-5 years), and not just cramming for finals for a week and then having winter break to sit around in your underwear doing nothing at your parents house, it takes a real toll on your body and soul. I'm well beyond those types of analyst/associate hours but I always thought the worst was when you thought you were free for the night or weekend, made plans with other humans or just planned on shutting down and you get the call to come in. If it could just be 9am-12 or 2 am it would suck enough. But when you think you're off for a weekend and get that call it's like a knife through the heart.

 
mbag:

Whether you're an Analyst or Associate, 9:30-12:30 four days a week, 10-10 the fifth, and an additional 10-12 hours spread across the weekend for 82-84 hours seems pretty easy.
If it's 830am-930pm Monday-Friday and maybe 8 hours on 3x Saturdays per month as someone posted above, that's even easier. IB hours definitely do not seem as bad as people claim.

Even without the exaggeration, this sounds like a horrible life. Why-on-Earth would you guys work 85 hours per week in an office? Most of you probably make a base salary (NOT INCLUDING BONUS) of 70-90k, and you work in an office for 70-90 hours per week. Unless you passionately love your job, that's insane. Get a STEM degree and work for a technology or market research provider.

I work well under 40 hours per week, half of which is from home. When I go to the office, I start between 10 and 11am and leave between 2:30 and 4pm. Nobody works weekends. I make a base of 92k. I went to a decent local school (nothing fancy) and went into a STEM field with high demand for talent. I'm guessing that most of you only got into the field for the money, but you're practically making monkey money (pun intended) when you consider the hours. If this stuff's true, then I'd seriously encourage you to look into engineering and computer science jobs.

 

Would be curious to hear whether there is any (significant) difference between NY, London and HK here, especially post-MBA (associates)? There does not seem to be an awful lot of information on these other financial capitals.

 
undefined:

I see more A-A in London because MBA is not really a "thing" and people can move easily Sell-buy-sell side

Got this impression as well. Do BB in London still recruit MBA students for Associate positions? If so, is this mainly from LBS or also from US schools? I am currently deciding between MBA offers with an intention to go to London post-MBA (Visa situation, European citizen).

Obviously schools say 'yes', but trying to get more objective / anecdotal stories.

 

I will echo what everyone else has said regarding the unpredictability. You just have to get over the fact that your time is no longer your own and is property of the firm that hired you for at least the next year. As you progress and grow, you will develop relationships and allies that will go to bat for you in order to try and give back some of your time. The transition from analyst to associate is not some magical glorious event in which you suddenly get your life back. I will elaborate a bit more regarding my own personal experience.

As a 3rd year analyst (if you're good enough to be getting an A2A offer at the end of the year), you have already managed to develop a rapport with those in your group. Your work life balance is beginning to improve. You will be expected to drop everything and come back to the office at ridiculous hours less and less, etc. Normal people will still think you are insane, but you can at least take care of yourself and be somewhat healthy at this point.

As a 1st year associate, your life is not going to be markedly different from when you were a 3rd year. You will have analysts underneath you to help with some of the work, but you will also have new responsibilities that take up your time. You will not be used to these new tasks and there will be some efficiency lost. The other side of the coin is you will expected to train these new analysts to be the next you. I liken it to the beginning of your transition. The biggest difference here is the comp.

As you move through this year and prove yourself you will be given more responsibilities, but your duties will stabilize. Speaking for myself as I went into my 2nd year I was being asked to do less new tasks and just cranked the work out. This is where your life starts to improve. Once you have a trained set of analysts who are good at their job you might be able to go away for a weekend while they crush out a first iteration, etc.

Your role has become more directing traffic and reviewing for perfection. You probably aren't building anything from scratch except to help out in a crunch or perhaps where the task exceeds the analysts current knowledge base. You are still probably averaging 70-80 hours a week, but the amplitude of the swings lessens. If its 1 am and its just final clean up that needs to be done you leave and have your analyst finish it up before you review it from home and then send it out. You come in later on weekends, giving analysts time to work on tasks that they weren't able to complete the previous night, etc. You will still have 100+ hour weeks when things get bad, but as far as I can tell even VP's have to deal with that when it gets really hot and heavy. Part of it is moral support. If I'm just out drinking while directing traffic from my phone the analysts won't respect me as much, will probably harbor animosity and make my life harder.

I think for a fresh MBA Associate without prior banking experience you are probably going to work just as hard as the analysts. The fact of the matter is most top tier 2nd years and 3rd years can probably run circles around you and your value add is negative until you get up to speed. If you aren't working as hard at the analysts you either have unnatural aptitude for the job or you are probably going to get fired.

Are there Associates who somehow think they got the MD nod? You bet, but they're terrible bankers and generally are pushed out before they even see a decent bonus. The thing to remember is that this is a client service business. I've had conference calls with MD's past midnight, but they're taking it from their house.

 

I was A2A also. For me, I really enjoyed the work I was doing and in my situation the comp was in megafund territory so I had even less incentive to switch. My hours as an A1 were probably worse than those of my friends who jumped ship to PE, but I'd say now it's about even and we all enjoy what we're doing. More interesting depends on whether you like more client interaction. I do, so I'm really looking forward to it. I would also add that hours are most certainly cushier at the VP level. VP's probably work 10-20% less than associates and seem to work from home more.

 
undefined:

I have a friend who is an Associate at WF and said they have "protected weekends". Which I suppose means they are off limits to come into the office or work. Anyone else heard of anything like this?

My bank has them too. They're not that great as they sound because in practice work still goes on and what happens is stuff just piles up and then you're stuck playing catch up.

Some analysts have been told to "enjoy their protected weekend, just have it on my desk by Monday!" Meaning you don't have to respond immediately and work during the day but that shit better be done one way or the other by the start of the next work week.

 

Like you said, they are completely different jobs...most people are willing to tolerate the hours and the job for their individual various reasons, some love the job in spite of the hours, and a few (believe it or not) love the job and have zero issues with the hours.

Doing what you suggest means people can't do the job they want to do...

 

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