Living in other countries
I was researching today about the Ukraine incident with the Malaysia airlines being shot down and it got me to think about life in Ukraine, as well as other countries. I got to thinking about what it would be like post-IB stint and I think I would love to visit other areas of the world, especially Ukraine and the middle east. I've always wanted to go to Dubai and experience the life there.
I wanted to know what you monkeys thought about living in different countries and if you took the approach of leaving for missionary/philanthropic reasons after your IB stint.
I've lived in Ukraine for 7 years probably. 4 as a kid and 3 on and off as a teen and adult. What do you wanna know?
From everything I read it seems as if Ukraine is essentially law-free. The articles I read make it seem like you pay your way out of anything. How much different was it living in Ukraine as compared to the US?
I know that pretty much all business goes through unofficial channels. Like, you need to pay people off at every corner. They have special lanes just for politicians and rich people. My uncle straps a siren to the roof of his car sometimes and just guns it. I was driving with him once and he gets pulled over. The cop walks over and says, 'How fast have you taken that thing?' He was driving a Scaglietti. He says he hit 140 or whatever on some road the other day. Cop's like, 'Nice." Uncle hands him a 50 and cop leaves. So that's how traffic stops are handled.
Import taxes are huge. Like ~50%. My uncle has to have his cars registered in Poland and pays dudes to drive them across the border monthly to maintain their status or whatever.
My mom was a math professor and made probably the equivalent of $15K. Everybody smokes. Everybody drinks. Food is really good and really cheap. Like, I can't even eat tomatoes in the U.S. because Ukraine ruined them for me. Like Israel ruined hummus.
Also interested. I am white but would LOVE to be in Singapore/Seoul.
Of all the cities in the world, you wanna live in Dubai?! Why the fuck would you want to live there?
judging from the comment, I take it you have had experience staying/living in dubai?
it just seems like a really interesting place, with a bunch of different cultures mixing (ie. middle east and western countries industrializing the area.) I just really want to experience a middle eastern lifestyle, and have always wanted to visit dubai i guess.
No I've never lived there but I have a few friends who have and I've also been there a few times. My impression is that Dubai is not really middle-eastern culture at all, rather a poor imitation of western society but with none of your typical democratic liberties. That contradiction alone is my biggest gripe with the place. Yes the buildings are impressive but somehow everything feels superficial, especially once you realise it was all built with dirty oil money and slave labour. The people seem self-centered, egoistic, flashy, ignorant of real-world issues. Society is very segregated, there are pockets of expats who never really mingle with the local emiratis, then you have the lower working class immigrants from sri lanka or pakistan or africa who are overworked and underpaid. Go there and see for yourself but I doubt you will have the same desire to live there after your visit. If you really want to experience a real middle-eastern lifestyle but still retain modern comforts I would suggest Tel-Aviv or Istanbul..
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Dubai isn't really the Middle East, no? As in the 'real' Middle East.
I'd love to do a stint in Latin America or the Middle East, maybe both. Buenos Aires, Santiago, Sao Paulo, somewhere like that, or Beirut, Tehran, or Istanbul. Plan to start learning Spanish next year.
Yeah! Go to Ukraine. Awesome place, tons of fun, especially after recent events. Do it, I dare you.
I grew up in an Eastern European country and I think there is nothing better than being wealthy in a developed country such as Us/uk. Bare in mind that you the jurisdical system is crap so if anything happens you are screwed. Being wealthy will put you on a radar of criminals who will take any chance to extort you. In fact all smart and wealthy people I came across try to keep a low profile and cannot take a full advantage of their wealth. I guess living in some less developed country for a 1-2 years coukd be a great adventure but I wouldnt try to pursue my career there.
I'm living in germany, I also lived in the US for about an year. Ask me everything which you want to know.
I did a lengthy stint in Malaysia during my degree.
Good for broadening your horizons, makes you realise how ignorant some people (not all) can be when you return back to your developed, Western, home nation. Pay your way out of a lot of situations (cheaper to do it out there than in Ukraine by the sounds of it, £10 will do for most situations).
Wouldn't move back there after graduation but only because I'd rather try somewhere new, I do like the emerging markets from a finance perspective and experiencing new cultures is great, beats the monotony of the UK!
Oh yeah, it's actually legit dangerous in Ukraine too. My uncle has guards 24/7, his house is behind a big ass wall, and he has a gun in every room and car and a fucking machine guy set up on the third floor with stacks of U.S. dollars and is ready to leave at any moment. He's had to dip for months at a time because shit got dangerous, I guess. I have another relative who legit will be imprisoned if he goes back to Ukraine. He's a currencies and oil trader. I have no idea who he pissed off. So he lives in London. He's fat as fuck and pulls hella bitches, so whatevs though.
When I lived with my dad, he'd send us to his mom's farm for long amounts of time because he was worried. Or just getting blackout drunk and eating dried fish and wanted to be alone. Anyone's call
Oh, and chicks in Ukraine are even more of gold diggers than they are here. Probably because they're poor as shit. Actually, everyone is poor as shit and still manage to dress and look better than the vast majority of Americans.
I've only really been abroad from the military.
1.) Okinawa: good sushi, clean, disciplined people. If you like Japanese women, great, BC that is literally all you will see in Japan.
2.) Kuwait (Iraq's not an option): Police drive BMWs (very oil rich country), barren dessert. Not like Nevada or Palm Springs, just miles of flat sand and sun on the horizon. All Islamic women in head-dresses. Gaudy architecture, lots of gold and flashiness.
At the end of the day, you just miss America. I miss walking to 7/11 at 1am to grab a gatorade and seeing a 4Runner full of hot college girls. Everything that makes our country great day to day nowhere else in the world really has.
@Goldencinderblock that description of Ukrainian political/business culture fits Chicago pretty well.
I'm an American, lived 2.5 years in Hong Kong.. best decision of my life.. Awesome city, perfect location to hop around to other parts of Asia..The finance industry is small, incestuous and completely dominated by expats.. Tons of opportunity.. Rent was absolutely ridiculous (I was paying $2,350 USD/ month for a "2 bedroom", 550 sq foot apartment), but otherwise the cost of living wasn't that bad.. Very favorable tax environment for Americans is a huge plus as well..
I've been all over Asia and would say HK is by far the best city to work out of in the Eastern Hemisphere.. It's Western enough so that you never need to learn any Cantonese and won't have problems, but MOST of the Country (actually it is a "Special Administrative Region") is 100% Asian.. A 'democracy' that is less than an hour's drive away from the most hardcore communist nation in the world.. Striking dichotomy not only of the region's politics, but also culture.. You'd be surprised how different the Chinese "Mainlanders" are from natural habitants of Hong Kong.. You'd have to spend some time there to understand the difference..
I could spend days writing about HK and Asia, if anyone is thinking about heading over there for a job, or even just a trip, PM me and I'd be happy to answer any questions/ share advice..
I've spent a decent amount of time in HK (never lived there but I tried) and can confirm the Mainlander/PRC's compared to chinese Hong Kongers (?). People from HK really don't consider themselves anywhere near the same as Mainlanders. It's odd as a westerner when you first go and really see it because we just incorrectly lump them all together but it's such an extreme difference.
While I was working in Malaysia I spent 4 days in HK - one of the best places I've ever visited, can't wait to get back out there. Will drop you a PM soon!
Go to Spain if you have the chance. Granada (my favorite), Barcelona and of course Madrid. As far as just traveling to travel, Brazil New Years.
have been living abroad since dec 2010, 2.5 years in buenos aires, rest of time have spent traveling. wouldnt have it any other way
Dubai's interesting to visit and if you're in Europe it's a good winter beach trip (other than Israel it's the closest winter beach) but I'd never want to live there. I've known westerners who have and you basically live completely separate from any native, the place just seems so fake (because it is-most of it was built in the last decade or two with wildly inflated and borrowed oil dollars), everything is over the top (it seems like everything is coated in gold) and as someone else stated, drinking is highly regulated. Plus they basically enslave the southern Asian laborers through indentured servitude.
I was born in Eastern Europe (Russia/Ukraine), and I will tell you, if your family isn't very rich, then the best thing that could happen is if you were able to escape and go to some Western country and get a decent job. Those E. European countries are not for someone who likes everything to be fair, according to laws etc. There are laws, of course, but they are on paper, and in real life you see a lot of things that impose danger. People don't know whom they are more afraid of -- criminals or the police, as both can leave you without a single dollar. The more successful you get the more you are hated. I have come to realize that the smartest and brightest tend to leave and go to the US, UK, Western Europe. The level of intellectual curiosity is going down rapidly in Russia, and it is almost impossible to have a discussion with anyone -- they never care to listen, all they can tell you is to f* off, and "if you don't like it here, then get the heck out of our country". People are quite aggressive and poor too. You can only live a great life if you are rich, and to be rich you have got to have your own profitable business; working for someone for $400/month is pathetic, but there aren't many other options. I think it's nice to visit and do some sightseeing, but staying longer than a week wouldn't do much good. For those who like to have rights, act lawfully, honestly, and with integrity, Eastern Europe is not the place. If you are smart in the US you will have opportunities for a good living, if you are smart in Russia/Ukraine -- doesn't mean anything.
Is this thread a joke?
"If i had the money to afford cars like the scaglietti i'd love to live in a place where a 50 dollar bill could get me out of almost anything"
"I think I would love to visit other areas of the world, especially Ukraine and the middle east. I've always wanted to go to Dubai and experience the life there"
When I read this my first reaction was grabbing a screwdriver and shove it through both my eyes. Dear lord.
I spent Summer of 2012 living and learning in China. I split my time between Beijing and Shanghai, (with an interesting weekend in Anhui Province, aka 'the real China' but that's a story for another time). But given my experience, if you are a relatively wealthy and intelligent American you can live like a DEMIGOD in contemporary China. Why? 1.They more or less idolize foreigners. You have a 'halo' effect' that goes into effect the moment you leave the airport. All the better the more 'foreign' you look (i.e. black or blond). If you can put together a few sentences in mandarin, you're more or less 'in'. 2. Simply put, money makes right in China, the favorable exchange rate is a plus. 3.There is an endless amount of things to do and explore. I'd recommend avoiding the biggest cities like Beijing, Shanghai and spring for the central 2nd tier ones: Xi'an, Chongqing, Guilin, Wuhan. Places like these have less smog more natural beauty and quintessential ancient Chinese things, and more fanboy locals. Major setbacks will include smog, narrowly avoiding death as a pedestrian, and a few nights of diarrhea as you learn to which foods to avoid. With that being said there are a few complications to those foreigners who are trying to establish an extended life in China, 99% of which come from the government in power. But for a guy looking to escape his desk & just live for an extended time, I would say your adventure is waiting for you in China. I personally don't really have an interest in Europe, so I elected to give you my 2 cents on its neighboring continent. Also, your experience may very as I am a black guy who speaks mandarin.
So jealous of you! I love Asian cultures even though I am a white American. I just love their way of life and how clean places are (Singapore, Seoul, Tokyo). It looks futuristic and I would love just sitting at a high rise drinking coffee and relaxing and hitting up the local coffee shops. Don't get me wrong, I think America is the best country in the world and IS the standard, but I would love to explore Asia.
Ask me anything about Seoul
Would be interested in hearing the story from Anhui Province...
drengen knows what he is talking about re Russia and Ukraine. Just read carefully By the way - have questions about life in Russia? Maybe I could provide you some more info.
BR, Mark
tokyo brahs, go there once and you'll never want to leave
Clean, efficient, best nightlife for expats, amazing culture, nice/helpful people, lot of people speak English, BEST FOOD EVAR
only drawback is that it's kinda expensive, but x-rate is favorable right now
Currently interning/living in Switzerland for the summer. It's a fun and unique experience, great place to go if you want to travel around europe, but very. f--king. expensive.
It varies a great deal with the natives. Old one's are not very receptive but young ones are generally happy to meet Americans. There's a lot of expats though especially in Basel since there's a ton of global companies HQ here such as Novartis and Roche.
And Switzerland relies a lot on foreign labor as there just isn't strong enough of a skilled workforce to fill all of the jobs. Many people even live in Germany or France (lower COL also) and commute into Switzerland for work.
Definitely a good idea. I have always had the feeling that staying at one place for too long gets boring and once a strong daily routine sets in time starts to fly. Going abroad makes time slow down and you get to see a lot in a relatively short time you would else spend doing the same crap over again.
Well it all depends what places you already visited. Every place has its advantages and disadvantages, its all up to you and what you want to see. Dubai is very artificial and not very representative of the large majority of the middle east. I would avoid areas of acute conflict of course (Ukraine, Palestine, Syria, Egypt), although there are many places close by that are certainly worth a visit: Oman, Iran etc. If you want specifics, you'd have to be more specific where you want to go.
It really depends on what kind of life you want and what kind of weather you like and what kind of person you actually are. Ukraine is very cheap, $100 there actually means something and you can live with that kind of money for some days. But on the other side you need to know it's poor, dirty and so on. So you can live like a king but a king which lives in poor country. What kind of king is that? :) Dubai get's hot, up to 50°C and each public place is climate and killing the heat down too much, even to 15°C so it's easy to get sick with all that, hot, cold, hot, cold. Besides that, if you can live with that much of heat punching right into you when you're out during the day, then it's the right place for you, if not, it's not.
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