London: Elite Boutique vs MS Summer Offers

Hi guys,

Been fortunate enough to receive offers from MS IBD/GCM and an elite boutique (think Lazard/Rothschild) for London Summer Analyst positions.

Have a serious dilemma between the two since with MS I have no way of determining my desk (could easily end up in capital markets which I am not really keen on) whilst the boutique is a pure financial advisory (M&A/Restructuring) internship.

Need advise with regards to future full-time conversion chances, exit opps to other industries, general prestige/brand, slightly more long-term Business school chances.

Cheers!

 

Go with Lazard.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 
SonnyZH:
Go with Lazard.
do not go with lazard. they are losing people in london and are no longer the force they once were.
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
Oreos:
SonnyZH:
Go with Lazard.
do not go with lazard. they are losing people in london and are no longer the force they once were.

He's looking at exit opps, Lazard M&A/restructuring can place him either at a BB (associate level) or directly buy-side/B-school. Guy said he doesn't want to end in CM, there's always that risk.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 
Whiskey5:
Rothschild is extremely strong in EU. I'd take it over LAZ/MS.
Very true. But exits aren't great for some reason, I hear mainly because they're more process drivers that excellent bankers. Strong culture too. Debt advisory and rx often bicker over mandates.

Also bear in mind, Roths only hire from their intern classes.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
HWF:
Obviously MS
the fact that you say obviously shows how clueless you are.
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
Best Response

I'm shocked you weren't hired by MS either in GCM or IBD (usually they let you know since the 2 are quite different). If you're keen on staying in London then I would say Rothschild hands down- at least as prestigious a name as MS in London and at a desk you know you'll like. I think the brand name MS is much stronger internationally, however, particularly in the US so if you have intentions of working over here then I would have to go with MS.

Also- in the off chance you choose MS and end up in Capital Markets- still will have equally good chance to get into a top B-School and exit opps really will depend which desk you're on (though still could be good). At the end of the day you have 2 excellent options, and you can't really go wrong either way.

 
Black Jack:
I'm shocked you weren't hired by MS either in GCM or IBD (usually they let you know since the 2 are quite different). If you're keen on staying in London then I would say Rothschild hands down- at least as prestigious a name as MS in London and at a desk you know you'll like. I think the brand name MS is much stronger internationally, however, particularly in the US so if you have intentions of working over here then I would have to go with MS.

Also- in the off chance you choose MS and end up in Capital Markets- still will have equally good chance to get into a top B-School and exit opps really will depend which desk you're on (though still could be good). At the end of the day you have 2 excellent options, and you can't really go wrong either way.

Although I pretty much agree with you recommending Rothschild, I just don't see how you are qualified enough to give this advice. I usually don't piss on other people's legs, but a few days ago you opened threads like the one where you were asking if it is ok to apply to more than 5 banks at the same time (obviously yes btw), and now you're giving advice which bank to choose in London?

OP: If it is LAZ, I would go for MS. In case it is Rothschild, then it's a tough decision. Which team did you like more? Rothschild is extremely strong in Europe and since you are set on M&A and don't want to be placed in CM, maybe you should just go with Rothschild and never look back. You can't go wrong with RS or MS in my opinion.

 
above_and_beyond:

Although I pretty much agree with you recommending Rothschild, I just don't see how you are qualified enough to give this advice. I usually don't piss on other people's legs, but a few days ago you opened threads like the one where you were asking if it is ok to apply to more than 5 banks at the same time (obviously yes btw), and now you're giving advice which bank to choose in London?

OP: If it is LAZ, I would go for MS. In case it is Rothschild, then it's a tough decision. Which team did you like more? Rothschild is extremely strong in Europe and since you are set on M&A and don't want to be placed in CM, maybe you should just go with Rothschild and never look back. You can't go wrong with RS or MS in my opinion.

I think it is fair to say that you can give advice on one topic while asking for advice on another, wouldn't you say?

Unsure how questions about general recruiting would indicate any lack of knowledge as to the presence and reputation of Rothschild in Europe.

 

Given the extreme variation in responses, not sure my decision has been made any easier......

MS hires IBD & GCM together for their summer analyst class so I have no way of knowing what area I will be placed until nearer summer. I did really like the boutique feel and the people I met there so I guess will be leaning that way - might take up the suggestion and drop MS an email though I think that will be futile.

Leaving out the exit opps, I don't see myself as a GCM guy especially after seeing how bad IPOs can go/relative uncertainty in equity markets and MS's relative weakness in DCM.

RE - Lazard/Rothschild's position: surely they have both worked on big deals recently (ABInBev/Nestle/Vodafone) so they must be doing something right. Dream situation would still be MS M&A but I am thinking many with a general IBD/GCM offer will be opting for that.

 

both laz and roth rep are still excellent, not sure what ppl in this thread are on about ppl on the buyside rly couldnt give a fuck which m&a shop just did or did not lose a few big mandates in a row, most ppl hiring are years removed from banking so their entire perception of prestige will lag reality by years anyway.

 
leveredarb:
both laz and roth rep are still excellent, not sure what ppl in this thread are on about ppl on the buyside rly couldnt give a fuck which m&a shop just did or did not lose a few big mandates in a row, most ppl hiring are years removed from banking so their entire perception of prestige will lag reality by years anyway.
laz RX is not good. this is coming from those at mega funds and MDs at their sellside competitors. i have been told similar, but less specific stories for their M&A. if you're not willing to take that, dats cool.
"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
Oreos:
leveredarb:
both laz and roth rep are still excellent, not sure what ppl in this thread are on about ppl on the buyside rly couldnt give a fuck which m&a shop just did or did not lose a few big mandates in a row, most ppl hiring are years removed from banking so their entire perception of prestige will lag reality by years anyway.
laz RX is not good. this is coming from those at mega funds and MDs at their sellside competitors. i have been told similar, but less specific stories for their M&A. if you're not willing to take that, dats cool.
I assume you are still currently in banking? I remember asking you this a while ago and not getting an answer...

I can't comment on rx but their m&a practice is still v. solid.

 

OP, remember that Roths (if this is who we're talking about) has a debt advisory and ecm (just because they dont underwrite doesn't mean it isn't part of their business) that you can be placed into too.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

if bankers had all this creative advice and strategy they wouldn't waste their time in banking. some of the top senior guys in banking are impressive (i.e. those that came before pe was the cool thing to do) and respectable but almost everyone else is a joke.

but yes there is clearly a difference betw. high deal flow and high quality deal flow. either way your key take-away from banking should be a very strong modelling and accounting nd finance skillset and that's about it. the buy-side will beat all the lies and bullshitting you have learned in banking out of you quickly.

 

Distinctio dolore quaerat sequi molestias nam cumque ab eum. Repudiandae voluptatum voluptatum ducimus reiciendis molestias voluptatem et.

Qui similique possimus ratione et. Excepturi quia ut sunt distinctio accusantium rerum iure. Ipsam libero et dolorem voluptates. Odio excepturi est voluptatem similique reiciendis a blanditiis et. Veniam adipisci nemo exercitationem.

Iure labore odit ut porro et. Vitae voluptatem dolorem vel sit est. Qui expedita magnam inventore temporibus maiores inventore. Consectetur incidunt autem dignissimos consequatur eum odit.

Omnis nulla incidunt aspernatur qui nam. Earum dolorem enim modi dolorem esse. Quo velit est voluptatem.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
6
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
7
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”