Getting into MSF programs with a low GPA/GMAT
I was talking to Anthony the other day and we were talking about people constantly asking about getting into MSF programs with low gmat scores and/or low GPAs.
As Anthony posts most of these topics I figured I would chime in and help out.. I am matriculating now at one of the well talked about MSF programs.. I was accepted into a couple of the top programs with a gpa WELL below 3.0 and a 660 GMAT. I was even offered some scholarship money at one of them (I was a full point below the class GPA average).
I will say that I have almost 2 years of experience as an analyst going into the program so that helped my profile. I was a triple major undergrad, 2 sport athlete, prez of the frat, and have passed half my CPA.
It is important to remember that the MSF in the US is not like the MBA there is no formal ranking system so schools still have more freedom to admit people with different backgrounds or some weaknesses in their profile. Now if you are applying overseas expect a much stronger and more stringent process as they are more structured and are basically MBA substitutes.
If you have any questions I STRONGLY recommend you contact Anthony or the program administrators directly. Anthony basically LIVES on gmail and replies to every email, he runs msfhq.com and is in constant contact with every admin of every MSF that has been mentioned on this forum
This is my first attempt at writing something useful/productive on this forum so please disregard the choppy nature of the writing.. I prefer bullet points to essays.
Thanks for the info. You probably answered a lot of questions just by describing your background for us; I know you certainly provided me with useful info.
I'll likely consider the MSF in a few years, and I fit a similar profile to what you described.
You didn't mention if you were at a target undergrad, though? Semi-target? Non-target?
Yeah he is super helpful
The most non-target of non-targets... total enrollment under 2k. Honestly if you are over 2 years of experience you really need to know going in what you want to do and understand what you are getting into as most of the people in the programs are fresh out of undergrad.
Calikid good post. What made you decide msf instead of mba? You mentioned you had 2 yrs of work exp
Calikid, do you know which programs, among the more well known, might be more "flexible" in terms of either low GPA or low GMAT or both?
Also, do you know if being an older applicant to a MSF program hurts you more than being an older applicant to a MBA program, i.e. will having alot of relevant work experience hurt or help your application? I think there are some programs, at lease in EU, where you cant apply if you have more than x number of years of experience.
Calikid, I would assume your experience is in consulting. With an MSF, are you looking to stay in consulting?
Who is Anthony?
The man, apparently.
Hahah love it.
Thanks for the shout out. Always happy to help.
You are definitely right about getting into an MSF program in Europe. Very well structured and highly competitive. I am trying to get into one right now and right off the bat they require a minimum GRE score of 160.
This is Anthony and yes he is the man
For those hoping to get into "high finance" where you get your MBA is EXTREMELY Important and as I had a no name undergrad and a poopy gpa an MBA would not help me at this point in my career. This way I have the option of doing an MBA in the future if I need to. I actually had to explain that rationale to a couple programs and after my little speech they all agreed
I'm right there with you. Almost identical situations (only one year experience) and I'm debating an MSF, MSRE, or MBA at the moment too for a year or two from now.
I mean I was told to put consulting as my background... I worked in Pub Fin but with a Financial Advisory company. I worked essentially in IB Pub Fin but not at a bank.. I was talking to another guy from my old company on here and he was told to put consulting so I did the same.
My roommate is actually looking to get into consulting after the program. I am still trying to pursue a couple different things. Possibly IB, Pub Fin, PE(Dreaming), DCM/Lev Fin, or something Mezz
I was reading your post last night about the commercial broker day in the life. I think I saw that you are in LA? It is an AWESOME time to be doing real estate there as there is a bunch going on in the downtown area in terms of development and redevelopment. I would try to get in now as the longer you wait the less of a MS candidate you are and the more of an MBA candidate you become.
Lord, I wish I was in a city like LA haha. (Although I would prefer NYC.)
I'm in a much smaller market. I think what you caught was that one of my major clients is based out of LA.
I mean there are definitely some programs that have a minimum threshold in terms of minimum GPA and GMAT in terms of their candidate pool and its hard to get around.. Anthony can provide more light on those programs. But in general since the programs aren't officially ranked admissions looks at the full profile. For me I think it helped that I had Analyst experience in a front-office role and progress made on the CPA.
Oh okay. Ya I just know I saw LA somewhere. That is where I am from originally.
What are my chances of getting into the BBs? I'm really only focused on Goldman, but I'd be willing to step down to the CS or BAML level if they bump my base pay to 80-90K.
You would be better off at the Harvard 2+2 so you can leverage the Harvard admit to get a better group at Goldman
How about HBS right after MSF? Couldn't get into 2+2... do you think I have a shot at GS associate level after HBS? Also thinking about getting that JD too...
What is your profile? Most MSF programs are understanding as long as you can offset a strength with a weakness. I'd really have to know how low or weak one aspect of your profile is to give you a better gauge.
MSF programs tend to be for more junior people, but there are some that cater to experienced applicants. They tend to be PT programs and more of an MBA substitute. As long as you aren't trying to break into investment banking then they can still be valuable.
Shoot me a PM if you want to discuss this off line.
MSF programs low gpa/high GMAT splitter (Originally Posted: 01/31/2015)
Hi all,
I'm really interested in pursuing a MSF degree after having completed my BA in Econ this december in order to break into the finance world. Unfortunately I fell through several hardships during my UG and had my gpa suffer severely as a result (2.5). I know the general wisdom is to score above a schools average in GMAT if your gpa is below and have no doubt in my ability to break a 700+ on the gmat. However I was wondering if you guys could share some insight into what programs i should focus on since many schools don't publish their class profiles. I currently live in South Florida and wouldn't mind staying here for slightly lower paying opps since the CoL is lower as well. Should I consider schools like UM/FSU/FIU? (I received my BA from FIU) I don't trust their placement abilities since there is not a lot of information available. Would I receive a URM bump a la Law School?
Your help is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!
Florida is tough. If you get a high GMAT you could look at Miami or say FSU. U Florida is closed to non Florida ugs.
GMAT is going to be key. You might even consider taking some extra classes or a cert to give yourself a GPA bump.
Thanks for the quick reply TNA.
Does Miami place relatively well into any IB/AM/PE firms? At least regionally or in smaller boutique firms? Ideally I would not want to go into corp finance.
FSU seems to place mostly in corp finance with some banking/investment, at least up to 2012. Have their placements been the same the following years?
Miami is brand new so no placements. FSU is OK I guess. The issue is there isn't a lot of MSF programs in Florida so you're limited. You could look at say Auburn, Alabama, George state, etc if you wanted to expand regionally.
Thanks TNA. Any idea when info on Miami's first round of placements would be coming out? Also, what type of certs would you recommend me looking into? Are schools only looking at finance WE? I did work full-time during most of my UG, just not in a finance role so idk if this would work in my favor when applying.
Low GPA, MSF chances (Originally Posted: 12/28/2017)
I'm looking to apply for some MSF programs that start some time in 2019. I recently graduated with a B.S. in Economics from a non-target state university. My cumulative GPA is a 2.7. My major GPA is a 3.1. My work experience includes a resaraunt job, A summer full-time job in car sales, and a drafting job for a telecommunications construction company. I completed an internship at a small capital management firm. The firm managed portfolios for small-ish financial advisors. I was offered a somewhat informal internship/part-time gig through a friend who started a data analytics firm. I scored a 760 on the GMAT with a relatively even split, slightly favoring the quant section. I am American and currently 25 years old.
I received the following grades in the following finance/economics classes: B in Econometrics 1, A in Econometrics 2, A in Financial Derivatives, A- in Money & Banking, B+ in Intermediate Micro, Macro and International Micro, A in international Macro.
I did very poorly my first 3 years. I had originally planned on joining the Air Force straight out of high school with hopes of being a fighter pilot. I tried to get around my disqualifying vision deficiencies, but after a year and a half I gave up. I then transferred to uni from a community college as an accounting/finance double major. I did terribly in the general business classes with 1000+ in each class. I then switched to Economics and did much better with smaller class sizes.
What kind of schools should I apply for with this profile? I’m assuming MIT, University of Chicago and Columbia are out of the question. What about WUSTL, UT, UIUC, Vandy, Villanova and Ohio State? I'm looking to get into IB and I'd love to get into a BB or EB. However, I'm open to MM, small buy side firms, botique banks or possibly a prop trading firm. I'd like to work in NYC, but I'm certainly open to other options as well.
I can take a couple of programming classes at a local state college to gain some knowledge in that area & throw a few As on another transcript.
So Chicago and Columbia don't really have MSF programs. They're more financial engineering focused (for quants). I'm not sure if that appeals to you. I would say that you're competitive at all of the other schools mentioned, even MIT. GMAT is the primary variable, which you killed, and you can explain away your low GPA. I would say for you the deal breaker will be your story.
Hey Esuric,
What would you say one's GMAT should be to compensate for a low GPA. Mine is a little higher than the OP's (2.99) so I was wondering what is the lowest that I can get to be able to get into top programs like USC.
Also how would you spin off a bad GPA story. It seems that everyone has a "reason" for one, but I think it's all BS. If you want to succeed you should account for the worst. I had a buddy who was going through a life-threatening disease and he managed to survive and do well in school. I was thinking of owning up to my mistakes and say that they have made me into a stronger person. What do you think?
MSF GPA: does it matter? (Originally Posted: 06/23/2014)
so a lotta MSFs have a minimum GPA of 3.0, which IMO is rather high for a minimum. Anyway, how do employers look at the grades, assuming you don't need an H1-B Visa (ie you're domestic)? Also, do MSFs have grade inflation often? I'm from a non-math non-business bg so this is rather challenging.
GPA does matter a lot, at least for the first few years after graduating college. Some employers do look at grades as one of the most important factors. (Sometimes they have a 3.50 cutoff GPA)
As far as MSFs having grade inflation it would really depend on what program you attend. MIT MSF will likely be much harder than one at a low ranked state college.
So GPA matters a lot for MSF grads, at least relative to MBAs. With respect to grade inflation, at least from my experience, getting a high GPA is very difficult due to the nature of the program (fast paced, quantitative) but getting a very low GPA is just as hard. Everything is curved and there's usually a lower-bound (typically around a C). In other words, in order to fail or get a D in a class, you need to severely underperform your peers.
Applying to MSF with 2.7 gpa (Originally Posted: 10/01/2016)
I am a senior at a semi target in Pennsylvania studying International Politics. I was originally planning on going to law school, however I decided this past summer that I want to pursue a career in Finance. My GPA is low due to my horrendous first semester where I failed 2 courses. No excuses here, I assume full responsibility.
However, this is what I have going for me: 1) Upward trend grade wise 1) I have been able to do 3 internships during my undergrad ( including one at KPMG and another at boutique in Dubai) 2) I am fluent in French and Arabic 3) I am taking a GMAT prep course and I am aiming for at least a 600
I will be applying to master's program in the next two months and I am not sure if I should aim for a Masters in Finance or perhaps a Masters in Management.
I have 2 questions :
1) Which programs should I shoot for and how should I tailor my application to have the best chance at admission since my undergrad degree is not business related ? 2) How should I adress the GPA concern that will inevitably come up? ( Perhaps in the essay portion of the application)
Thanks in advance
There are semi-targets in PA? Why didn't you drop the 2 courses you were failing? How does failing two courses demolish your GPA?
I came from a French International school and did not know what a late drop was . It is unfortunate because I would have late dropped these two classes but I ended up with 2 F's on my transcript which led to a 1.3 gpa my first semester
CMU Pitt?
it sounds like, you will be fine without MSF. just hide your GPA from your resume, whenever asked, then spill the beans and like you did, Take the responsibility and show a progression of growth.
not that many MSFs are useful for semi-target undergrads. I would suggest that MMS or MSF will give you access to some similar recruiters, but the GPA pain will come back either way. so it's just buying time for another OCR basically
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