I was offered a lunch with one of the managing directors from risk management. I was going to network my way into investment banking or PE sometime during my analyst career (I am in risk management) and still feel very strongly about it. Should I accept the lunch offer?
If I do, how do you think I should behave myself? Is there any reason for me to mention my goals? Is there a department in risk management that deals with i-banking more than the others?
Any feedback is appreciated.
Don't order anything sloppy. Don't wear white.
Do you think going to a lunch is a good idea? He looked very friendly, but I am extremely interested in ibanking.
Yeah. Avoid ribs. For bonus points, ask him what he recommends when it's time to order. This would probably be a good time to remember all of those rules about being polite at the dinner table that mom and dad tried to teach you, but don't be too nervous.
Obviously, you can't turn it down. There's really not much to lose by going to this besides the possibility of rejection from someone you'll, at worst, never see again.
It never hurts. Four years ago, I thought I was the perfect trader. Today, I am becoming more and more convinced I've got a much better personality for risk management. EVERYBODY on the trading floor played some sort of sport in high school or college, but all of the traders played offense and all the risk managers played defense. I was really good at defense in Water Polo. See where this is going?If he seems like an older version of you, try and remember the conversation even if you go into banking. If you decide that banking isn't for you, you can go get a Finance MS and apply for a position in risk management somewhere. It's not a glamorous job, but for a lot of people- probably half the people who think they want to be traders, for instance- it's a great lifestyle and pays ridiculously well for a steady job with nice hours.
I really want to find out about what my strategy should be for now. What are the most prominent groups in risk management (more likely to be noticed) etc. How should I frame the conversation? I don't want to offend anyone or look like a guy that is unhappy with his current position but there is always room for growth one way or another.
Any kind of risk management function at Bank of New York, Northern Trust, JP Morgan, or Goldman Sachs would probably involve some good risk managers. For IBD and S&T stuff, you look at who's making the most money. It's harder to pick out good risk managers- you need to look for places where the firm SHOULD have lost a lot of money but some smart guys brought the ship into one of the (limited) spots in the harbor before it got caught in the storm. I'd look in particular for risk management in GS's fixed income derivatives groups and in Northern Trust's mortgage group. Everyone thought Northern Trust was stupid when it cut back on leverage and lending back in 2005 when the mortgage market started to overheat, but the firm obviously made a move that was pretty wise in hindsight. Whichever risk manager(s) made that call obviously had a lot of clout and a lot of wisdom that you can probably gain from. I think most people following the industry will agree with me on the GS call; I will let someone else go into detail on that.
dude....im not trying to be a prick or anything but why are you asking " how do you think I should behave myself?" Are you really asking us that question? or is this some type of joke im not familiar with? you cant think enough for urself to decide if you should have lunch with an md? dude how are yoiu every going to make it in the real world if you cant think this far?.............................start using ur brain
Try not to focus the title. Out of all your friends, who had richest Dad who was nice? I want you to imagine that guy. He's probably not that much different.
I grew up in Boy Scouts and one of the assistant scoutmasters in our troop was a bigwig at some VC firm. He was also a really nice guy and was good at cooking grilled hamburgers. Whenever I had to have a conversation with someone who was really rich or powerful, I'd try to imagine that person as being just another version of the assistant scoutmaster, and it would help me relax a little. So if you have a friend who's Dad is a lawyer or owns a car dealership or is a stockbroker and they're a nice person, just imagine that you're having lunch with them.
OP: Take some St. John's wort, imagine this guy as the rich Dad you knew back when you were growing up, and just relax. The worst that happens is you don't get a job offer and walk away. Big deal. You've already got an offer in IBD.
Thanks a lot for thoughtful answers – I am impressed that some people actually spend time helping incoming analysts. Others waste that same time on posting insults but that’s unavoidable on a public forum. A few things to clarify. I am in IBD risk (credit risk?), not in market risk. I am older than most analysts coming from a different background. And yes, I feel rather uncomfortable seeking advice from someone several levels up and some of my friends told me that I should not show my interest to MD’s in risk management if I am hoping to transfer to another division.
I was also hoping to find out if some divisions in risk management are more prestigious than others, so I can ask him about that.
But thanks a lot for contributing to the topic!
Ask him what it's like. A good guy in risk management wants to be:
1.) The guy who thwarts attempts to harm the firm. 2.) The quiet, almost nerdy kinda guy who suddenly turns into a hero when he bails the firm out of a crisis. 3.) Always pursuing more and more wisdom, looking at economic history, wondering and asking what people did during the crash in 2008, the LTCM debacle, the crash of '87, the rates crises of the early '80s.
4.) The guy who's always losing sleep at night because none of the idiots- err, front-office guys- at the firm have any clue what's about to hit us if problem X, Y or Z blows up.
If in doubt, I'd get the guy to start telling you stories about the crashes and recessions he's seen the firm through. Ask him what it was like, whether it could happen again, and what he's worrying about right now. Get the guy talking, and try and keep yourself interested.
Imagine a bank as the beach. The bankers are the guys who are going surfing. The traders are the guys doing dives and flips off the rocks. The risk managers are the lifeguards. They have a relatively mundane and thankless job during the boom, but when the crisis hits, they're the guys who are acting to rescue the firm. Talk to any lifeguard; he'll want to talk about the rescues he's done- the 400 lb guy he had to pull into shore when he got caught in a rip current during the rescue, got pulled out a mile, and had to swim his way all the way back in. Talk to any risk manager; he'll want to talk about a crash, panic, crisis, or recession. He'll want to talk about how bankers were bursting into tears and/or punching walls (despite claiming nothing was wrong with their deals three months prior), how the creditors were lining up on the firm, and how he managed to make sure the firm had the capital to get through everything.
I would also consdier to find out what area of Risk Management he is in.
You have the anal math mofos who did certain kinds of risk management. You also have the dudes who chill and did risk because of the hours/pay/lifestyle.
I would act differently between each of those two groups. If its type 2, I would be more easy and laid back and let some shit fly.
Another clarification. He is definitely Type 2 (outgoing, social, respectful). I am hoping to build a connection (I don't think it would hurt unless there are some unspoken ruled I don't know of), but I am also trying to get more info:
Something like that.
Q1 is something that you should be going to HR for. There is usually an internal transfer process that happens.
For Q2, you need to be specific about the group you want to work in. Ask him if he works with group X. People aren't going to help you as much if you say that you want out of your group. On the other hand, if you want into another group (IE: M&A) and they know someone there, they'll obviously want to get you in touch.
Again, best move is to get him telling you stories about the crashes. People who appreciate what I do and how my work is so valuable- even though I've never seen what their work product is like- are really smart guys. Everybody's the same. Get him talking about what he does- and in particular how he's helped the firm survive crises- and there's a better chance of a natural rapport ("Finally! One of the front-office guys- an analyst no less- respects what I do!! Maybe they're not ALL idiots!"). Maybe he'll invite you back for another lunch later this summer. :D Or maybe when you figure out what you want to do at the firm, you can give him a call and he'll remember you as that smart kid he had lunch with.
^^Agreed with the above. I mean you have just as much risk in cash equities/repo/money markets as you do in exotics/CDS/rates. It is a different kinds of risk.
Sometimes you dont need the PhD who can sit there and figure out where the CDS goes all the way back to Mortgage X. Sometimes you need the guy who knows how to motivate guys to get things done, you need the person who finds how to plug the holes and get the front-office guys the information they need. You don`t how one little thing wrong in the system somewhere can make the simplest Money Markets model blow up, and make the traders/treasury totally eff'd till its fixed.
A good risk manager is one who is proactive and knows how to find the problems before the traders.
Yep. You are right, maybe I should just concentrate on building rapport instead of fishing for information. Finding out what his story is would be interesting and important as well. Thanks a lot.
PS I probably wouldn't go to HR to ask that question right away. Maybe work a bit, prove myself and then go for it?
If this is FT, wait until you get at least one good review back for a full period (ideally wait just shy of one year if you can stand to wait that long) before you go to HR. My firm, for example, has a policy that prohibits internal transfers unless you've been in the same group for one full year. If you worked for the same firm, I'd wait eleven months as an FT hire before approaching them.
Damn. That long? It is a full time job. Now I know why some people think it's easier to look for a new job someplace else...
I am going to stick it out for a year, I think. I have held my previous job for 6 years and I hope I will have a chance to prove myself faster this time.
Play footsie with him. If he bites...go for the hand-job under the table.
I went to dinner with an MD after he rescheduled about 39 times and 7 months after our original set day... Cool deal man its deffinitely a good thing whatever everyone told you scrap and do the following as I did and it turned out to be gold.
Just ask him how he wound up doing what he is doing today and how you can do the same for IB.
Thanks Barboon. He looked like a very nice person, so I hope a meeting will yield some benefits as well.
Lunch with MD (Originally Posted: 09/29/2013)
I am an analyst in quite small local M&A advisory boutique.
Last Friday evening I was at a conference / networking event where I met MD from a strong and reputable regional boutique IB (not large, though). We accidentally had a short talk (in which, among other things, I learnt that he never heard about the firm I am working for).
We had some standard polite talk, nothing specific or exciting. In the end of it we exchanged cards and he suggested we should meet for a lunch next week. I took it as a simple polite formality but now he wrote to me on linkedin again inviting me for a lunch.
I don't quite understand what is going on because on my linkedin he definitely sees that I am analyst-level guy and I have only 4 years of experience from them only 2 in investment industry (previous two - non-relevant industry positions), so I doubt he thinks about expanding his network or bringing in new business or something. Clearly I cannot offer him much. According to his profile, he has 20+ years of experience in PE/IB and holds executive positions in various high profile companies over the last 10 years.
Why do you think he invited me? Don't get me wrong, I am very glad and excited that I have such opportunity, and I happily accepted his lunch offer when realized he was serious about it. But when I don't understand something, I automatically get suspicious.
How do you think I should behave at the lunch? Again, generally I am easy with people, I am always happy and ready to talk about business and finance so it won't be hard for me, but when I don't understand what the talk will be about... I am confused.
This is a positive for you. Do you want to move into IB (I'm assuming you're not in IB now)?
I say just go in with a positive attitude, be ready to discuss your resume/experience, and research about him/his firm beforehand.
Let us know how it goes.
if nothing, get a free lunch out of it. chances are though, his firm is short on analysts and probably just want to see if you are a potential fit
Never heard of anyone rejecting a free lunch as an analyst. Do it for the food and forget about it :p
Lunch/Dinner with MD and advisor (Originally Posted: 01/05/2013)
During my time as a summer analyst my MD announced that we would have a dinner (payed by the firm) at this nice restaraunt a few blocks from work to celebrate a successesful deal we had worked on. When we got to the restaraunt everything sort of went down hill, the conversations were brief and awkward and we all ended clustering in groups to chat. Do any fellow monkeys have similar stories? If so how did you handle the situation? If not, what would you have done?
...
Lunch with the MD of a Boutique Investment Bank (Originally Posted: 09/08/2010)
This might be a silly question, but I am meeting up for lunch with an MD of a boutique that I am interested in working with full-time. What should I wear for the lunch, it is supposed to be an informational interview, we will be spending an hour in the office, before going out for lunch.
Suit and tie.
dont order any messy food
+1. Get some small salad or such, because you'll be doing most of the talking.
Yes, suit and tie without question.
Go simple and understated suit and tie - you don't want to show up in pinstripes and french cuffs. Also, when you're looking at that menu, just get something easy to eat like a salad. Your purpose is to talk with him, not stuff your face with your favorite meatloaf dish.
Thanks guys, I will post an update after the meeting on Friday.
suit and tie. Grey suit with red tie, or black suit with simple tie... nothing fancy.
order something that's not messy.
Lunch with a grouchy MD (Originally Posted: 11/09/2012)
expired
I would never flat out ask someone for a job... This guy agreed to lunch with you, thats always a positive. Stop worrying about it, check he's still ok to do it a few days before, and make sure he has an enjoyable lunch. That is all you can ever do.
From a conceptual standpoint, re asking for a job: this guy knows you're looking for a job, because you cold emailed/called him. So there is no reason to ask; at least not in the immediate term. Recent performance/mood notwithstanding, if you have a positive interaction at lunch, I'd say there is an even chance that he initiates, and asks you to send your resume.
With regards to his group's performance: nothing you can do about it. Educate yourself about what happened, but don't bring it up at all. In fact, educate yourself to know if there are any particular topics/buzz words/items to avoid so it doesn't come up.
In terms of strategy: as him questions with longer timeframes (e.g., instead of asking about recent interesting deals, ask about the coolest deal he ever did); maybe linger longer than usual on common interests or other non-professional subjects; etc.
If he brings it up: listen to him, and don't try to offer a positive view. Be respectful, maybe (maybe) ask a tactful question, and then move on.
Don't bring up the revenue miss, be well read, pick up the FT that morning. Be personable, stay up on who won the game and just relax.
Yes, definitely use a shred of common sense here. Don't bring up that his group isn't doing so hot, you don't think he's EXTREMELY aware of that? The dudes responsible for that groups P&L, if not entirely, heavily dependent at the least and his job could be in jeopardy it continues to get worse and deals aren't coming in and getting closed.
That out of the way, you're probably not the only one who thinks this guy's a grump and more than likely many find him unpleasant. But guess what, believe or not, MD's get lonely too especially after years of everyone of their junior staff secretly hates on them hard behind their backs and one or more failed marriages / getting all but wiped out in divorce court. So this could be good news for you, you get this guy to taking a liking in you / start thinking "I was once ambitious and full of life like this young wiper snapper, I see some of myself in him," he'll go to batt for you moreso than the mid-30's rainmaker who thinks his dumb banker ass doesn't stink and has the impression VP on down sole purpose on Earth to meet everyone of his "discussion material" needs at his slightest beck and call.
Really try to show a genuine interest in this guy. Ask him about his background (college, first gig out of school, the small town he's from), keep very professional and respectful but also try to steer the convo later on towards his personal interest. There's a good chance if he's a miserable old MD he could legitimately have no interest outside of work. But, he for certain did at one point in his depressing life. Maybe his favorite sport from HS, baseball team, tennis, bondage fettish (ok maybe steer clear of that one, unless he really really want's to talk to you about, then do what you have to do). Take this lil' nugget by the horns, try to be this old bastards lil' buddy all the way and you've got a job. If you do get the gig, to let up either. Suck this dudes baggy ole' ball sack every chance you get afterwards, especially if he's the / or one of the top dogs around the group. Be his little go to guy and you've got a straight shot to top bucket w/ doing half of the work comp'd to everyone else. Cavet emptor, if he's clearly on a ship going down and out the door carefully distance yourself, best case he's calling you hammered on a Wednesday afternoon at 2:00 asking to come meet him at the creepiest / saddest old dude bar looking for an ear to hear him out about his new boutique he's never going to start, worst case they fire you too.
how do you lose over 100% of revenue?
Repellendus omnis velit blanditiis sequi veniam quis. Quos aut fuga quos libero accusamus nisi ullam. In dolor enim minus vero ut blanditiis.
Odit sapiente asperiores rerum. Iusto dolorum tenetur possimus officia. Libero totam omnis quo suscipit eum. Consequatur sed fuga dolorem inventore asperiores officia.
Ut unde reprehenderit voluptas et. Eum est voluptatem numquam libero. Voluptatem voluptatem delectus et autem aut ullam error. Quo ipsam rerum et assumenda soluta. Asperiores impedit assumenda ea consequatur assumenda qui repudiandae.
Libero natus voluptates reiciendis recusandae placeat voluptatem. Voluptates aperiam voluptatum cupiditate hic et et. Sapiente cumque perferendis quibusdam. Porro consequuntur dolor minima ut.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Quis id laudantium et sed. Est illum consectetur nesciunt quia amet non et. Id sit beatae ab itaque cum eum. Aliquid aut ex voluptatem aliquam inventore nam quisquam. Dolor dolores eum magni mollitia ex nemo est nostrum.
Doloribus tenetur quia nesciunt aliquid. Ut itaque ut tempora modi. Odio magnam et qui autem maiores. Aut sed animi sunt eius qui culpa.
Error qui natus reprehenderit culpa. In vero nisi nihil fugiat dolore totam tempora expedita. Odit voluptatibus quibusdam exercitationem animi cumque ullam expedita. Sint eaque soluta possimus.
Quis sit recusandae maiores ut enim velit. Harum quidem unde ducimus. Maxime blanditiis non laborum molestiae in et in doloremque.