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1/12/12

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/checkpoint-was...

I applaud these Marines for their actions. Young men, sent to a shit hole, allowing a people to be free and vote Democratically for the first time in their lives, who get sniped, blown up and otherwise treated like shit, kill a couple people who are trying to kill them and then decide to piss on their bodies. I see ZERO wrong with this.

The Marines were not pissing on little kids, prisoners or anything else like that. They were pissing on Taliban enemy combatants. Big fucking deal.

Oh no, the Afghani's are getting pissed. You know what? The USA should leave Afghanistan and go to the Taliban and tell them it is all yours, we won't fuck with you ever again. In 5 years when women are beat and gays are killed and people can't read or go to school the USA should fly a huge banner over the country and tell them " told you so ".

Why on earth do we even bother? Americans across this country should urinate in milk jugs and send it to the military so they can fill a C130 full of red, white and blue piss, fly it to that shit hole and urinate on the whole country.

Ungrateful, medieval cock suckers. And fuck the Pentagon and our entire government. We are such pussies. Tell Afghanistan so suck a dick. Nothing like invading nations, forcing them to comply, being the most powerful nation in the world and then always acting like a complete pussy.

Comments (189)

Best Response
1/17/12

MBP,

Again you come in here with this elitist attitude and claim that us 'lowly' Americans cannot possibly have the grasp on our foreign policy that you do. Its a tired trend and no more true today than it was any of the other countless times you've written about it.

That being said, you're definitely a smart guy, I have to give you that, but for fucks sake, stop preaching to 'Americans' about how they're brainwashed. You live in our hat.

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1/14/12

It's about meaning. Objectively, yes, the Afghans in the video were already deceased and so the marines urinating on them did not hurt them any further...and yes, it is obviously worse to be killed than to be pissed on, nobody is arguing otherwise.

The issue here is the meaning that the action brings with it. Pissing on a corpse does not adversely affect anyone when examined from an objective standpoint. Unfortunately, most people do not think or act in objective terms. The desecration of corpses is considered to be a serious taboo amongst most cultures worldwide and is certainly NOT the type of action that should be tolerated AT ALL in the military, let alone the planet's foremost "first-world" military that is attempting to establish peace and democracy in the Middle East through nation building.

The actions of these marines exemplify the very reason why the US has fucked up nearly every military engagement that it has been involved in since WWII. Without "winning the hearts and minds" of the people that an army occupies, it stands absolutely no chance of generating the popular support that it so desperately needs to be truly victorious in an endeavor to instill its own ideals in other cultures. The actions of these marines have only given the recruiters for anti-American groups more ammunition to inspire more hatred toward our nation.

Impossible is nothing

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/14/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

"[F]or instance, 16 IEDs have been planted in girls' schools" by the Taliban in 2008.

If these rat leftists expressed 1/100th the outrage at Islamo fascists for their human rights violations as they do at a marines for pissing on dead bodies then I'd have at least a modicum of respect for them. The fact is, American leftists hate the United States and sympathize with radical Islam's hatred of the United States. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Leftists see Islamo Nazis as their temporary allies.

lol who has said anything about supporting militants? Why are you even bringing this up? How would this at all make what the Marines did okay? Killing being worse than desecration does not make desecration okay.

In reply to EPS
1/14/12
EPS:

It's about meaning. Objectively, yes, the Afghans in the video were already deceased and so the marines urinating on them did not hurt them any further...and yes, it is obviously worse to be killed than to be pissed on, nobody is arguing otherwise.

The issue here is the meaning that the action brings with it. Pissing on a corpse does not adversely affect anyone when examined from an objective standpoint. Unfortunately, most people do not think or act in objective terms. The desecration of corpses is considered to be a serious taboo amongst most cultures worldwide and is certainly NOT the type of action that should be tolerated AT ALL in the military, let alone the planet's foremost "first-world" military that is attempting to establish peace and democracy in the Middle East through nation building.

The actions of these marines exemplify the very reason why the US has fucked up nearly every military engagement that it has been involved in since WWII. Without "winning the hearts and minds" of the people that an army occupies, it stands absolutely no chance of generating the popular support that it so desperately needs to be truly victorious in an endeavor to instill its own ideals in other cultures. The actions of these marines have only given the recruiters for anti-American groups more ammunition to inspire more hate toward our nation.

This is entirely false. You don't win the hearts and minds of your enemy. Just like in World War 2, you seek absolute victory or no victory at all. You either fight a war 100% or you don't fight it at all. All the cluserfuck wars the U.S. has been involved in have been wars where we have no sought absolute victory, from Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War to Iraq to Afghanistan to Somalia. You don't win the hearts and minds of Nazis, of Stalinists, of Islamo fascists. We have no business in Afghanistan because there is no country to defeat, no war to win, no finite mission to accomplish.

In reply to Bondarb
1/14/12
Bondarb:

BTW ask these actual soldiers, who now face real consequences for their actions (unlike you), whether they are happy they did this and my guess is that their answers will be signifigantly less gung ho then yours. Truth be told, the Afghans they pissed on at least have the balls to pick up weapons and defend what they believe in, unlike you guys who talk about how our military should be invading all these countries but you would be shitting your pants if you were ever asked to actually participate.

Why are you still posting? Go hang out in the finance forum and leave off topics alone. I don't want to hear any more of your crying.

And great logic. I can't support the troops or think punishing these guys for a silly mistake is wrong simply because I haven't served. So is military service the only qualified? My buddy who did two tours in Iraq thinks it is perfectly fine what the Marines did. Does that make his statement the word of God?

1/14/12

The point I'm making is that the leftist media, Democrats and Ron Paul people never express outrage at the breathtaking subhumanity of the Islamo Nazis around the world. They are quick to take a bad incident like this and apply "shitheads" to the entirety of the Marine Corps. Where is their outrage at the targeting and murdering of civilians by the Taliban? Why aren't they saying, "My God! What the Marines did was bad and they should be punished, but it's hard to not sympathize with their feelings toward the Taliban, which places bombs inside elementary schools so that they can kill 8-year-old girls for learning"?

Why is your knee jerk reaction to bash the Marine Corps and the United States? What is the demented psychology behind this thinking?

1/14/12

it is kind of hilarious that these marines filmed this shit. When you commit an act that has potential to be condemned for whatever reason, you never leave any evidence.

for the record, i bet there are many other soldiers who did this kind of shit, except they didn't film themselves doing it.

1/14/12

The left only cares about foreign people when it can make the USA look bad. When the Taliban was killing innocent people or desecrating other religions they could care less. When US soldiers make a silly mistake they jump all over it. Hypocrites to the max.

In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
1/14/12
Sexy_Like_Enrique:

it is kind of hilarious that these marines filmed this shit. When you commit an act that has potential to be condemned for whatever reason, you never leave any evidence.

for the record, i bet there are many other soldiers who did this kind of shit, except they didn't film themselves doing it.

Exactly. The only crime they committed was filming this. We should punish them for doing so. Next time people piss on dead terrorists they must not film that shit.

In reply to TNA
1/14/12
ANT:

These animals target their own people. How many innocent Afghani's have died through suicide bombing. If you think normal Afghani people like the Taliban or appreciated their rule you are fucking nuts.

Then explain why the Taliban has been growing steadily, not shrinking, since 2004. We Americans see people on TV dying through Taliban-led suicide bombings. Do the Afghanis see that? Not at all. A lot of them (including innocents) just see US troops breaking into their houses, killing their family members, etc.

These people barely have clean food, let alone access to news sources, especially in the southern rural areas of Afghanistan. Taliban reps actively recruit them, promising them wages when have no access to clean water or healthcare. The Taliban pose as freedom fighters, not oppressors, and the locals know no better. When Taliban recruiters show videos people getting pissed on to Afghanis, do you think the viewers rationalize that the subjects are Taliban? No, they just see a white man urinating on an Afghani man. They don't see Taliban vs. non-Taliban. That prompts them to join the Taliban's struggle, i.e. strengthens the Taliban.

I'm not saying their thought-process is logical since the Taliban were absolutely and unequivocally one of the most oppressive governments in recent memory. But check the results of any Afghani poll. Most of them feel more afraid and less secure than they did under Taliban rule.

And we sit here under the delusion that there aren't going to be any consequences to this video. In reality, all this does is strengthen the Taliban and put more of our forces in danger. Exactly what we don't need.

1/14/12

Then you and I agree, I'm not sure where the divergence is. I don't think we should be fighting a war in Afghanistan because there really is nothing to fight. At the same time, I lose no sleep over the death and urination funeral of a Taliban fighter. We are in their country and they are trying to kill American soldiers because they believe--probably wrongly--that the Americans are trying to force them to change their way of life, which includes intimidating and murdering civilians, mutilating and subjugating women, executing gays, and ruling over people's lives with an iron fist. For them I have no sympathy if they get hit by an American bullet even though I don't agree with the war.

See, it's possible to not agree with a war and yet have little sympathy for the enemy, an enemy that seeks to enslave the population.

In reply to Jerome Marrow
1/14/12
Jerome Marrow:
Sexy_Like_Enrique:

You really think pissing on enemies' corpses warrants these soldiers ending up in a jail for years? The most appropriate punishment that I see fit is military send these marines for soup kitchen and let them do two weeks of community service. That's it.

Did I say that? I am stating what the likely consequences will be. I imagine desecrating a corpse is only a portion of what they did and, from a PR perspective, those in charge of the punishment will be apt to throw the book at them. There is rarely an appropriate reaction to anything and while I believe many people here are far underreacting by supporting these guys, there will most likely be an overreaction in the discipline they receive because of the nature of this incident.

I was trying to figure out why this thread smelled like shit and I just realized its because you are talking out of your ass.

YES, you said they would probably get put in jail and that this will haunt them the rest of their lives. You have zero fucking clue how the military works, whether in an operational manner or in how service members are punished. After some bullshit punishment, this will mostly be forgotten about and become a joke among the soldiers involved.

Again, I'm sure your life was chocked full of serious decisions when you were 19 so you know exactly what these soldiers were going through and can therefor talk about how their immature behavior is unacceptable.

As far as their future is concerned, how is it going to be ruined? They are a bunch of dumb idiots that had nothing going for them anyways, right?

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/14/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

This is entirely false. You don't win the hearts and minds of your enemy. Just like in World War 2, you seek absolute victory or no victory at all. You either fight a war 100% or you don't fight it at all. All the cluserfuck wars the U.S. has been involved in have been wars where we have no sought absolute victory, from Korea to Vietnam to the Gulf War to Iraq to Afghanistan to Somalia. You don't win the hearts and minds of Nazis, of Stalinists, of Islamo fascists. We have no business in Afghanistan because there is no country to defeat, no war to win, no finite mission to accomplish.

LOL are you kidding? We haven't been fighting nations with standing armies like we did in WWII, we've been fighting ideals and trying to instill our own in populations that aren't receptive to them. There can be no absolute victory through military might in these situations, as I would think the results of the US failing to do this very thing on numerous occasions since WWII would prove to you. Winning in these situations means not doing excessively fucked up shit to make more of the civilians hate the United States and take up arms to support the cause against the USA.

ANT:

The left only cares about foreign people when it can make the USA look bad. When the Taliban was killing innocent people or desecrating other religions they could care less. When US soldiers make a silly mistake they jump all over it. Hypocrites to the max.

I consider myself to be of the right, and I can admit that military personnel are not infallible to the extent that people are making them out to be, and that perhaps pissing on those we kill is not in our best interest. Am I supportive of the Taliban? Fuck no. But it doesn't take a genius to see that our current tactic of occupying a nation and trying to change the culture to be more receptive to US ideals cannot work when things like this occur. I agree with you on most of your posts, but think that this pretty clearly not something to be applauded.

Impossible is nothing

1/14/12

I dont know if you guys are talking at all to me but Im far from a "leftist". Just so you know, conquering countries in order to make them democracies is about as leftist as it gets and you guys support it...and of course like all liberal utopian fantasies it leads to nothing but embarassment and failure as well embodied in these videos of soldiers acting like idiots.. You are right that I dont care about "Islamofacists" and their atrocities...I live in new york not afghanistan and we have our own problems to worry about. If you want to help poor islamic women then start a chariyt dont use my tax dollars to kill a bunch of people for no good reason and piss on them. Ridding the world of bad people is a liberal utopian fantasy and videos like this are what come of it.

And saying in gung ho fashion that you would also do shit like this is just immature and stupid...as I said ask the soldiers themselves about it and i bet they would say it was the biggest mistake of their lives.

1/14/12

I don't think it's unreasonable to not give a shit about whether some dead Taliban is being pissed on but still recognize that by doing so we severely diminish any sort of peace efforts we are attempting there.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/14/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Then you and I agree, I'm not sure where the divergence is. I don't think we should be fighting a war in Afghanistan because there really is nothing to fight. At the same time, I lose no sleep over the death and urination funeral of a Taliban fighter.

I agree - we should not be there at all. Still, I do lose sleep (figuratively) over this issue, because it will only breed more hatred toward us and lead to more problems for the US down the road. If for some reason it did not, then fuck it, who cares. I think most people are angry about this issue because of its repercussions.

Impossible is nothing

In reply to cphbravo96
1/14/12
cphbravo96:

I was trying to figure out why this thread smelled like shit and I just realized its because you are talking out of your ass.

YES, you said they would probably get put in jail and that this will haunt them the rest of their lives. You have zero fucking clue how the military works, whether in an operational manner or in how service members are punished. After some bullshit punishment, this will mostly be forgotten about and become a joke among the soldiers involved.

Again, I'm sure your life was chocked full of serious decisions when you were 19 so you know exactly what these soldiers were going through and can therefor talk about how their immature behavior is unacceptable.

As far as their future is concerned, how is it going to be ruined? They are a bunch of dumb idiots that had nothing going for them anyways, right?

Regards

You're right, they had nothing going for themselves anyway, which unfortunately is all too common with those that join our military, which is why most are socially maladjusted drop outs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/us-afgha...

"Marine Corps Commandant General James Amos said in a statement on Friday he would not "rest until the allegations and the events surrounding them have been resolved."

EXPANDING INVESTIGATION

Panetta telephoned Karzai to denounce the behavior in the video as "deplorable," and General Martin Dempsey, the top U.S. military officer, said the actions depicted were illegal.

It is likely others will be brought into the investigation, including the person who filmed the desecration of the dead and whoever else may have been watching off-camera.

The Corps said the lead investigating officer, known as the "Consolidated Disposition Authority," was Lieutenant General Waldhause, the commander of Marine Corps Forces Central Command.

"The danger obviously is this kind of video could be misused in many ways not only to undermine what we are trying to do in Afghanistan but undermine the potential for reconciliation. There is a danger there," Panetta told reporters on Thursday.

"But I think if we move quickly - if we conduct this investigation and hold these people accountable - we send a clear signal to the world that the U.S. is not going to tolerate that kind of behavior and it doesn't represent the United States as a whole." "

Any much more is said as well. If you think this is going to be a slap on the wrist, you're out of your mind.

Many people served hard time after the Abu Grahib incident and their lives were fucked afterwards. Once again, all involved will live with regret and if they attempt to do something productive with their lives, this incident will follow them.

In reply to TNA
1/14/12
ANT:
Sexy_Like_Enrique:

it is kind of hilarious that these marines filmed this shit. When you commit an act that has potential to be condemned for whatever reason, you never leave any evidence.

for the record, i bet there are many other soldiers who did this kind of shit, except they didn't film themselves doing it.

Exactly. The only crime they committed was filming this. We should punish them for doing so. Next time people piss on dead terrorists they must not film that shit.

I think some people get certain thrill out of filming weird shit. Like how some people film their sex tapes, at the risk of it eventually getting on-line and being exposed to the public. (think: Paris Hilton)

In reply to Jerome Marrow
1/14/12
Jerome Marrow:
cphbravo96:

I was trying to figure out why this thread smelled like shit and I just realized its because you are talking out of your ass.

YES, you said they would probably get put in jail and that this will haunt them the rest of their lives. You have zero fucking clue how the military works, whether in an operational manner or in how service members are punished. After some bullshit punishment, this will mostly be forgotten about and become a joke among the soldiers involved.

Again, I'm sure your life was chocked full of serious decisions when you were 19 so you know exactly what these soldiers were going through and can therefor talk about how their immature behavior is unacceptable.

As far as their future is concerned, how is it going to be ruined? They are a bunch of dumb idiots that had nothing going for them anyways, right?

Regards

You're right, they had nothing going for themselves anyway, which unfortunately is all too common with those that join our military, which is why most are socially maladjusted drop outs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/us-afgha...

"Marine Corps Commandant General James Amos said in a statement on Friday he would not "rest until the allegations and the events surrounding them have been resolved."

EXPANDING INVESTIGATION

Panetta telephoned Karzai to denounce the behavior in the video as "deplorable," and General Martin Dempsey, the top U.S. military officer, said the actions depicted were illegal.

It is likely others will be brought into the investigation, including the person who filmed the desecration of the dead and whoever else may have been watching off-camera.

The Corps said the lead investigating officer, known as the "Consolidated Disposition Authority," was Lieutenant General Waldhause, the commander of Marine Corps Forces Central Command.

"The danger obviously is this kind of video could be misused in many ways not only to undermine what we are trying to do in Afghanistan but undermine the potential for reconciliation. There is a danger there," Panetta told reporters on Thursday.

"But I think if we move quickly - if we conduct this investigation and hold these people accountable - we send a clear signal to the world that the U.S. is not going to tolerate that kind of behavior and it doesn't represent the United States as a whole." "

Any much more is said as well. If you think this is going to be a slap on the wrist, you're out of your mind.

Many people served hard time after the Abu Grahib incident and their lives were fucked afterwards. Once again, all involved will live with regret and if they attempt to do something productive with their lives, this incident will follow them.

Dude the abu ghraib people just got out of jail a decade later. Sorry chpbravo but you are a retard if you think these people wont be punished...politicians are involved now and these soldiers are going to find out that they are just pawns that can be sacrificed for much more "important" people covering their asses just like in abu ghraib.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/14/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Since you can't read between the lines, I'll lay this out in plain English. I was responding to the poster who was bashing American soliders as douchebags and shitheads while defending the poor little Taliban fighters. The American Left always ALWAYS bashes American soldiers and is always the first to defend Islamo Nazis. The so-called American progressive that is for gay rights, women's rights, religious freedom, etc. never expresses outrage at the Islamic world for executing gays, beheading journalists, and for oppressing and mutiliating women. No, it's the marines who piss on rotting flesh who are the bad guys. In the demented mind of the American left the guys who are fighting for Islamic fascism are the good guys. That's what's so demented and fucked up about the psychology of the American leftist.

How is that reading between the lines? You're repeating what you already said, which is a rudimentary understanding of people who are different from you. You're no better than a hippie who says America deserved 9/11.

There are several ridiculous sentiments expressed in this post. According to the American right, no one in the military has ever done anything wrong, because you can never criticize the troops. Not for killing civilians, not for pissing on dead bodies that haven't been confirmed as Taliban. What exactly do you think will happen with a video of that happening out in the world? You think that is GOOD for America or the troops? Regardless of anything else you want to get pissed off about, answer that question. Then consider why some people think soldiers need to be held to a higher standard than terrorists.

1/14/12

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

1/14/12

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bill-maher-doesnt-agree...

Not that I like Bill Maher, but bravo to him for speaking up for these brave young soldiers.

1/14/12

Who gives a fuck if they pissed or shat? Now that they are on video everyone will use it for their own interests. The politicians, the terrorists and everyone in between.

1/14/12

Does anyone else read these threads just to get a few lols from ANT's rants?

Anyway, I don't understand why this is such a huge deal. There have been many grave atrocities committed during war throughout history. Some marines pissing on corpses does not rank among them.

Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art - Andy Warhol

In reply to freemarketeer
1/15/12
freemarketeer:
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Since you can't read between the lines, I'll lay this out in plain English. I was responding to the poster who was bashing American soliders as douchebags and shitheads while defending the poor little Taliban fighters. The American Left always ALWAYS bashes American soldiers and is always the first to defend Islamo Nazis. The so-called American progressive that is for gay rights, women's rights, religious freedom, etc. never expresses outrage at the Islamic world for executing gays, beheading journalists, and for oppressing and mutiliating women. No, it's the marines who piss on rotting flesh who are the bad guys. In the demented mind of the American left the guys who are fighting for Islamic fascism are the good guys. That's what's so demented and fucked up about the psychology of the American leftist.

How is that reading between the lines? You're repeating what you already said, which is a rudimentary understanding of people who are different from you. You're no better than a hippie who says America deserved 9/11.

There are several ridiculous sentiments expressed in this post. According to the American right, no one in the military has ever done anything wrong, because you can never criticize the troops. Not for killing civilians, not for pissing on dead bodies that haven't been confirmed as Taliban. What exactly do you think will happen with a video of that happening out in the world? You think that is GOOD for America or the troops? Regardless of anything else you want to get pissed off about, answer that question. Then consider why some people think soldiers need to be held to a higher standard than terrorists.

You can't even allow yourself to acknowledge that the Taliban is evil. At the very least I condemened pissing on corpses. You can't even acknowledge that people who murder 8-year-old girls for the high crime of attending school are evil. Herein lies the difference between 80% of America and the 20% of people who define themselves as liberals. The 20% live in this demented anti-American psychosis that won't even allow them to acknowledge, "yeah, the Taliban, who hide in hospitals and in schoolhouses during war, who mutilate women, who ostracize and condemn as whores women who are raped, who behead journalists, who murder gays, who slaughter children for going to school, are evil and don't deserve our pity." If you can't even acknowledge that the Taliban is evil then you've got some real moral issues that can probably only be corrected through pharmaceuticals.

I challenge you to read just this one account of the pure evil that is the Taliban:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/02/just-how-evi...

They train and force their CHILDREN to commit suicide bombings. What kind of demented f*ck does this to their children? THIS is the Taliban. THESE are the type of people who had their corpses pissed on.

1/15/12

Honestly, I am proud these marines pissed on the corpses of these pieces of shit. They fought bravely and they are expressing their conquer and victory, although filming this was retarded. If I was a marine, I would take shit and take piss on these fuckers while they're still alive. Then film them while they're getting beheaded.

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1/15/12

WOW this thread ... I honestly expected the OPs response to be a one off view. These people as soldiers are supposed to make lives better for these people and I totally respect that. They're giving up much of their youth and potentially their lives to fight for justice but urinating on dead bodies of any person is just wrong. Doing this is a juxtaposition of everything their fighting for filming it and then unintentionally having it broadcast all over the world is just stupid. I'm pretty sure that this violates every principle of basic human rights, freedom, liberties and righteousness these soldiers stand for. There are a lot of flawed arguments in this thread.

Yes they killed people and that's inherently worse than urination on their dead body but the killing was for 'a greater good.' Killing human should be a last resort and IF those were indeed Taliban members killing them is arguably better for everyone. However what does pissing on a corpse do besides bringing worldwide criticism of the US army. Nothing. There is no greater good here, no moral righteousness and no justice whatsoever. It completely unnecessary and no human should be subjected to having urine sprayed all over their dead body.
The Taliban has done some horrible deplorable unimaginable things but this does not give American soldiers the right to abuse their deceased bodies. This is exactly why American values are against an 'eye for an eye.' Also there are a lot of people here who have selective about portrayal of US soldiers. Everyone is putting them on a pedestal saying their honourable young men serving their country and its okay because only the Taliban kill and rape children and journalists etc. BUT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/wikileaks...

US soldiers handcuffed and shot civilians in the head including 5 children under 5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

5 US soldiers were charged with gang-raping and killing a 14 year old girl before executing her family: a mother, father and six year old sister
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...

US soldiers sprayed a car with up to 200 bullets because they didn't stop driving, killing a family with two children

I could literally go on all day with incidents like My Lai, Haditha etc but you get the point so please don't use 'oh but they did worse' as an excuse because when soldiers don't think anyone is looking they are clearing capable of behaving on a horrific level as well.
Do 'these scumbags... deserve to be revived, sodomized by a hog and then drowned? Or is it only the Taliban that should be punished.
I know these soldiers have experienced some traumatic and unimaginable things but that does not mean they are excused for wrongdoings. They need proper help and support for their tragedies but that does not make it okay for them to do something like that to other people

I have personally never experienced warfare but that doesn't mean I'm not capable of forming an opinion based on common sense. That's what we do every day. Is it wrong for me to call Freddy Got Fingered the shittest movie ever been made because I don't know what it's like to direct a movie, Bernie Madoff a dirtbag because I've never had the opportunity to steal billions etc? These aren't wrong conjectures to make and just because I personally have not been in a somebody's shoes doesn't mean I am incapable from judging their actions from a reasonable standpoint.

To that dog analogy, yes dogs get treats for catching out bad guys but if some pit-bull malls a 5 year old then they are 100% going to be put to death. Is that what we should do to the troops killing children? Also can we excuse the actions of some extremists just because they were conditioned to believe from childhood that the US are the enemies killing innocent people? Wrong behaviour cannot be excused no matter how they're trained and to be honest, humans brought up in American society should just know better.

Pissing on dead bodies is not that bad and on the scale of other stuff done during war probably ranks like 1 but something wrong is still wrong and encouraging this and saying we should do worse instead is even worse.

1/15/12

cl234, the difference? When U.S. soldiers commit atrocities they are arrested, tried and convicted. When the Taliban commit atrocities it's another day on the job. It's who they are. My only point is that the knee jerk reaction of the American liberal Democrat/Ron Paul supporter is to highlight every wrongdoing of American soldiers, which are out of the ordinary, widely condemned and punished while at the same time either defending of sympathizing with the plight of Islamo fascists--people whose very belief systems require the enslavement of their fellow man.

Why is that? Why is the knee jerk reaction of the American left to condemn America, American soliders, etc. while Islamic radicals set IEDs off in elementary schools? What I want to understand is the psychology behind this. How does urination on corpses receive such huge national spotlight, around the clock condemnation, and gasps of horror from the leftists while everyday atrocities like forcing children to blow themselves up in suicide attacks goes unnoticed by them?

1/15/12

Most of the atrocities committed by US soldiers are not dealt with by court of law and are buried deep down within the government until something like Wikileaks comes along.
And I totally agree with you that defending the extremists are wrong and there are some weirdos out there justifying the actions of the taliban who are just plain stupid.
You just have to accept that the US are considered 'good' and the terrorists are considered 'bad' and with that comes stereotypes. I dont necessarily agree with this way of thinking but if an American soldier rapes a child, it's considered 100x worse than a taliban member doing so because the extremists are kind of expected to. It's like if a convicted pedophile (bad guy) rapes a boy its less despisable than say a police officer or the Pope (good guys) doing the exact same thing.
My main point before was just that there should be NO EXCUSE for urinating on a dead body.

1/15/12

Gee, I wonder if the media has anything to do with your perceived discrepancy in "acceptable" reactions to these types of events.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/15/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

You can't even allow yourself to acknowledge that the Taliban is evil. At the very least I condemened pissing on corpses. You can't even acknowledge that people who murder 8-year-old girls for the high crime of attending school are evil. Herein lies the difference between 80% of America and the 20% of people who define themselves as liberals. The 20% live in this demented anti-American psychosis that won't even allow them to acknowledge, "yeah, the Taliban, who hide in hospitals and in schoolhouses during war, who mutilate women, who ostracize and condemn as whores women who are raped, who behead journalists, who murder gays, who slaughter children for going to school, are evil and don't deserve our pity." If you can't even acknowledge that the Taliban is evil then you've got some real moral issues that can probably only be corrected through pharmaceuticals.

I challenge you to read just this one account of the pure evil that is the Taliban:
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2010/02/just-how-evi...

They train and force their CHILDREN to commit suicide bombings. What kind of demented f*ck does this to their children? THIS is the Taliban. THESE are the type of people who had their corpses pissed on.

Dude, you define all that is wrong with the modern conservative. I NEVER SAID I THINK THE TALIBAN IS NOT EVIL. I'll say it again to accommodate your reading comprehension, but more explicitly. I DO THINK THE TALIBAN IS EVIL.

Re-read that paragraph a few times, genius. I am happy when members of the Taliban die. They are terrorist scum that make the world a worse place.

Is your mind blown yet? Have I turned your world-view upside down? Because you seem unable to grasp that someone who disagrees with you on something might not fit into some bizarre little stereotype you've created.

So consider the fact that people in Afghanistan, a people so tough in a land so tough that they haven't been conquered by some of the most dominant forces the world has ever seen, and many of whom do not have access to modern unbiased news sources, base their opinions of the country on what they see. They are led to believe Americans are unrepentant conquerors who have no respect for people in the Middle East that might stand in the way of a political agenda. I'd rather we not feed that view.

1/15/12

I am always amazed at how stupid the media can be. I assume that we are all on the same page- out of context this looks bad and boastful. But put into the mindset of a warrior (which I am not obv but I'll try to assume) these men were trying to kill his friends, sheltered a man who killed thousands of Americans, kidnap and torture soldiers, and continue to attack them in the hellhole that is Afghanistan. If some motherf*cker is spraying bullets at me and my friends and I get him...you would be damn sure he isn't being treated with reverence. It's war- not a fuckin game.

Reality hits you hard, bro...

In reply to MMBinNC
1/15/12
MMBinNC:

I am always amazed at how stupid the media can be. I assume that we are all on the same page- out of context this looks bad and boastful. But put into the mindset of a warrior (which I am not obv but I'll try to assume) these men were trying to kill his friends, sheltered a man who killed thousands of Americans, kidnap and torture soldiers, and continue to attack them in the hellhole that is Afghanistan. If some motherf*cker is spraying bullets at me and my friends and I get him...you would be damn sure he isn't being treated with reverence. It's war- not a fuckin game.

This exactly. It is human nature to be emotional and develop hard feelings towards enemies. If the U.S. authority couldn't understand that, they shouldn't have sent any of U.S. troops to Iraq or Afghanistan. It's easy to be a politician sitting in DC office to say that this shit was unacceptable and immoral and all that shit, but yeah how about you go fucking fight this war yourself and see how these U.S. marines would feel? Our politicians are such dickheads and pussies, full of hypocrisy and bullshit.

1/15/12

cl234, I realize you aren't American and seem to have very poor English skills, but maybe you should consider staying out of conversations that you are incapable of grasping.

There is NO moral equivalency between terrorist and US soldiers. The US military mostly consists of good people trying to do good...the Taliban is made up of bad people doing bad.

As it was stated before, many of the people doing inappropriate things are still kids and they are being put in situations that you can't fathom. It doesn't make it right, but given the circumstances, some of us are saying that people should try to understand why they did it and to place themselves in the shoes of the soldier.

The point you were trying to make about the dogs makes no sense. I talked about service dogs that are trained to work and find bad guys and/or drugs...not the neighbor's pitbull. You are talking about untrained dogs/people...which in this analogy would be the equivalent of a general criminal vs. trained animals...or in this case, soldiers, who are purposefully being put into horrible situations and being asked/commanded to do horrible things to other humans...then people flip shit when they take it too far.

Again, not saying that it's the best choice, but it really isn't surprising given the circumstances.

As far as your link about the solider shooting the car with the family in it...I would have done the same thing. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback a situation and say, "Hey, you killed kids" but if they aren't complying and they don't stop when instructed...that car is going to get fucked up.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

1/15/12

Love to hear these comments from kids that have never served...

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

In reply to MMBinNC
1/16/12
MMBinNC:

I am always amazed at how stupid the media can be. I assume that we are all on the same page- out of context this looks bad and boastful. But put into the mindset of a warrior (which I am not obv but I'll try to assume) these men were trying to kill his friends, sheltered a man who killed thousands of Americans, kidnap and torture soldiers, and continue to attack them in the hellhole that is Afghanistan. If some motherf*cker is spraying bullets at me and my friends and I get him...you would be damn sure he isn't being treated with reverence. It's war- not a fuckin game.

The Taliban, or non-Taliban Afghan freedom fighters (i.e. citizens who take up arms against weapon wielding foreigners in their country) would share this view. Except the motherf*cker in their case would be an American...

More broadly...

The rationale for US occupation and Taliban rule share the trait that they are both totalitarian ideologies. They are also both false.

Americans pissing on dead Afghan bodies is an accurate depiction of what you are doing to their country. It is not a "shocking" video because it is the exception to reality. You are not there out of the kindness of your hearts or to protect little schoolgirls who want to go to school. You continue to occupy their country out of either imperialism, totalitarian ideology, or for commerce (pick whichever reason applies in this case I'd suggest ideology.)

The reason there is an outrage is that this act (desecrating a dead body) by American soldiers challenges the myth that you are there to do good in a way that dropping bombs from unmanned drones doesn't. It challenges the narrative that you are fighting some kind of "moral war". The idea that your presence in another country is sinister is jarring to most Americans, but it is reality.

That's why we see the cognitive dissonance in this thread among people who haven't accepted the religion of America's moral war. People like original poster, ANT, have obviously reconciled their position by accepting the totalitarian ideology that America's role in the world is to spread "freedom" by use of military might as faith, or alternatively that it is fighting a "moral war" (the Christopher Hitchens argument for imperialism). This is clear from his comments like "might is right" and other forms of nonsense that he has mentioned in various threads. Like all totalitarian ideologies, it is false. For others who have not accepted the religion of the US state and moral war, this act is jarring because it exposes them in a tangible way to the knowledge that they are sacrificing their tax dollars, fellow citizens lives and collective reputation for someone else's misguided agenda.

We've been here before. Remember the Iraq helicopter "collateral murder" video that was posted on Wikileaks? It showed Americans that their war machine doesn't give a toss about morality or killing civilians, journos, or unarmed people. It challenged the false premise that you are fighting a "moral war" in a way that seeing rockets launched from ships or bombs dropped form the sky doesn't.

The sad irony is that most people in Afghanistan continue to suffer from two totalitarian ideologies, each of which purports to want to liberate them from the other and each of which feeds of off this conflict (Taliban rule and the US occupation)...

Question to the original poster (ANT). Are you religious by any chance? If not, are you sympathetic to one size fits all views of how the world should be / is (either utopian or dystopian)?

Disclosure: I'm not American. Have been trying not to reply to this thread as I usually avoid theological discussions, but in the end I had to share my non-American view of your misguided Afghanistan adventure.

1/16/12

I don't think we are spreading anything. The actions of the US military do not bother me because they benefit me. I pay taxes to create and continue this war fighting machine with the singular goal of protecting and promoting American interest.

Many times it is in our benefit to create Democracy as long as it is pro American.

Pissing on dead soliders doesn't shock me because I am a realist. It has happened in every war and the only reason we are seeing anything about it now is because we have Iphones and camera's everywhere.

1/16/12

Also, the USA has to be the shitties imperial power in history. We invade a country at our cost. Rebuild it at our cost and then leave it and buy from this newly "freed" country their goods at market prices. Every true imperial country in the past took over a country and pillaged it.

Compare the US behavior in Afghanistan to the USSR. Compare the US in Iraq to Britain throughout history. We roll in, spend all this money, try and help people and then leave.

1/16/12

When hundreds of thousands of Americans serve in a war, invariably, the law of averages means that there will be fuckups, then people will seize on those individuals to make paint broad strokes about the US military and foreign policy. I served my country honorably, and believe it or not I gave a shit about innocent people in other countries, so this makes me sick. But again, I get how it happened.

Tell me the depiction of the Taliban is based on a few bad apples. "Freedom fighters." Pfft. They can go back to stoning women and murdering gays when we leave, good for them, money stock market Ron Paul gold bars OMFG.

And it's a little old to have a bunch of faggot Europeans who conquered the world several times over finally decide to get squeamish about empire.

It would be easier to ask ANT, et al to tone it down or say hey, I know where you're coming from but these kids were out of line, etc., if some of the responses weren't worse. Relinquis, I know you mean well, but this moral equivalence ignores a lot of the facts on the ground. But I hate collateral murder as much as you do.

/end incoherent rant

1/16/12

Here's a serious opinion, by a serious soldier/politician who could very well be the POTUS one day.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/allen-west-mar...

Sorry I'm not sorry, lol.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

1/16/12

"One should recognize reality even when one doesn't like it, indeed, especially when one doesn't like it." - Charlie Munger

1/16/12

so this ANT guy, does he actually have a job?

In reply to TNA
1/16/12
ANT:

Filming it is dumb. Doing it is dumb. But to be outraged and apologetic is ridiculous

WE KILLED 3 PEOPLE ARE ARE SAYING SORRY FOR PISSING ON THEM!!.

The first line is correct, maybe minus being apologetic. Granted, your OP is sort of an embarrassment to Americans.

In reply to excite2012
1/16/12
excite2012:

so this ANT guy, does he actually have a job?

Try asking me directly next time. And why is it pertinent to the discussion. War is hell and the people that we killed we not saints. I am sure plenty of Nazi's were piss on in WWII and plenty of American were pissed on in Vietnam. Does it make this right? No, but these actions are hardly something to get upset about.

It is also incredibly comical how the act of urinating on someone is something we have to apologize for, but the invasion and killing of people is not. I mean if we are going to mentally justify invading and occupying a nation for a decade we might as well think pissing on enemy corpses is kosher.

1/16/12

Seriously??? Pissing over a dead corpse is ok??

Let me recap.

You invade a country, try to impose your ideology on them, you fight with them, they fight back, you kill them for defending their country, then you piss on them and film it and that is totally ok? Seriously!!!!!

They were stupid kids, but God dont try to defend them!, kids like those shouldn't be given guns. I dont think anyone in this board ever lived in the conditions these people live.

Jeez, Ant, cant believe you are so stupid, i thought you had some brains, bu after this post you lost all credibility. I wish I had more monkey shit to throw at you.

1/16/12

How about you re-read what you just wrote. We do all the things you list, but the pissing is the straw that breaks the camels back? Really.

There are really two schools of thought with this situation and both should lead you to not caring about pissing on these guys.

1) The USA does no wrong, we invade and freed the country and the Taliban is evil. By their actions they defile themselves based on basic human rights as well as according to Islam. If you fight for the Taliban cause you support the Taliban policy, just as German soldiers fought for the Nazi cause. Piss on them couldn't desecrate them any more than their policy of attacking innocent people, persecuting women, gays and other religions as well as the other laundry list of human rights issues.

2) The USA does whatever it does to benefit Americans. We invaded a country because we can, we remove and install government as we see fit and our world view is preeminent. Might makes right. In that case we are no longer the righteous defenders of freedom, but the powerful nation controlling the world as we see fit. In that case the actions of these Marines were no more horrible than the illegal invasion of sovereign nation. To apologize for a trivial action in the face of such blatant and horrendous misdeeds is a joke. To apologize for pissing on people whom you unlawfully and illegally killed is completely silly.

How about we have an intelligent discussion on these points. That is the real issue.

In reply to TNA
1/16/12
ANT:

How about you re-read what you just wrote. We do all the things you list, but the pissing is the straw that breaks the camels back? Really.

Who said that? I think there have been plenty of complaints, including from Conservatives, about the rest of what you said. This is just another incident that is also deplorable. You started the thread that applauded said incident. I think the divide is obvious.

There are really two schools of thought with this situation and both should lead you to not caring about pissing on these guys.

1) The USA does no wrong, we invade and freed the country and the Taliban is evil. By their actions they defile themselves based on basic human rights as well as according to Islam. If you fight for the Taliban cause you support the Taliban policy, just as German soldiers fought for the Nazi cause. Piss on them couldn't desecrate them any more than their policy of attacking innocent people, persecuting women, gays and other religions as well as the other laundry list of human rights issues.

2) The USA does whatever it does to benefit Americans. We invaded a country because we can, we remove and install government as we see fit and our world view is preeminent. Might makes right. In that case we are no longer the righteous defenders of freedom, but the powerful nation controlling the world as we see fit. In that case the actions of these Marines were no more horrible than the illegal invasion of sovereign nation. To apologize for a trivial action in the face of such blatant and horrendous misdeeds is a joke. To apologize for pissing on people whom you unlawfully and illegally killed is completely silly.

How about we have an intelligent discussion on these points. That is the real issue.

You're a fucking idiot. You start a thread that doesn't just apologize for some idiotic soldiers, but applauds their terrible behavior. You then seem to think that people who disagree with you somehow are 'fighting the wrong battle' or not having their priorities straight. Are you too stupid to realize that people can judge an incident independent from other incidents and the fact that some actions are worse than others does not justify or make them okay?

You really are a very unintelligent person. Pretty amazing, really.

1/16/12

Haha, coming from you I will take it as a compliment.

I really can't see how someone can be so upset about this incident in the face of all the other crimes. I mean to focus on something as minor as this in the face of such grave injustices is comical. Have a different opinion all you want pal, I am just stating things as I see fit.

You always roll out with personal attacks which just makes your "argument" as weak as it is even more of a joke.

1/16/12

Why should I apologize for an action that doesn't faze me. I support the invasion and occupation.

1/16/12

Who said anything about even apologizing? You are delusional. It was you who made a thread that commended people for desecrating a body. Seriously, get a grip.

1/16/12

Delusional? Apologize? I do commend them. Sorry that I don't have much sympathy for a group of people who openly violate most accepted human rights. Their actions against their own people desecrate their bodies and lives. Pissing on them means nothing at this point.

Seriously, get a grip.

In reply to TNA
1/16/12
ANT:

Delusional? Apologize? I do commend them. Sorry that I don't have much sympathy for a group of people who openly violate most accepted human rights. Their actions against their own people desecrate their bodies and lives. Pissing on them means nothing at this point.

Seriously, get a grip.

You're clearly missing the point, and your attitude is childish. Given the situation, what the marines did was understandable to an extent, but nonetheless unacceptable. I thought you'd realized that at some point, but I guess I was mistaken. Grow up; aren't you fucking 30?

1/16/12

Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's laughing, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's crying, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's praying, Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya;
Someone's singing, my Lord, kum bay ya,
O Lord, kum bay ya.

Did you fly over my helmet?

1/16/12

Kids do dumb shit all the time and this was one of them (IMO, the video taping was much dumber than the pissing). Who gives a shit? The fact of the matter is they were in a fire fight, won, and got excited and celebrated, so to speak. I'm sure none of you have ever done something dumb before.

The people that have commented opposing ANT should be thankful these guys are defending the freedoms that allow you to contest one another's opinion. If you were in AFG and you opposed something about the Taliban I'm sure, as ANT pointed out, they would do a bit worse then piss on you.

Next time you see a Marine or man in uniform why don't you shake his hand, thank him and buy him a fucking beer.

I would've fucking shit on them, personally.

1/17/12

Didn't read anything except OP, but I imagine this thread devolved down to the usual angry diatribe between "correct wing" ANT and "lefties".

That, said, I am left leaning overall and I have absolutely no problem with US marines pissing over Taliban bodies. (but filming it was not very smart, now we are going to suffer another mainstream round of debate about useless topics like this one).

In reply to Frabjous
1/17/12
Frabjous:

Didn't read anything except OP, but I imagine this thread devolved down to the usual angry diatribe between "correct wing" ANT and "lefties".

That, said, I am left leaning overall and I have absolutely no problem with US marines pissing over Taliban bodies. (but filming it was not very smart, now we are going to suffer another mainstream round of debate about useless topics like this one).

This thread really shouldn't break down along those lines. I mean suppose someone is a huge liberal. They should consider the entire war a desecration and this pissing event just being the coup de grace.

1/17/12
ANT:

Young men, sent to a shit hole, allowing a people to be free and vote Democratically for the first time in their lives

LOL you are so naive it's hilarious. Afghanistan was fine before the Soviet's fucked them and then the US installed the Taliban in power. If you're expecting a thank you from anyone about what the US has been doing in the middle east, don't hold your breath.

ANT:

Oh no, the Afghani's are getting pissed. You know what? The USA should leave Afghanistan and go to the Taliban and tell them it is all yours, we won't fuck with you ever again. In 5 years when women are beat and gays are killed and people can't read or go to school the USA should fly a huge banner over the country and tell them " told you so ".

Why on earth do we even bother? Americans across this country should urinate in milk jugs and send it to the military so they can fill a C130 full of red, white and blue piss, fly it to that shit hole and urinate on the whole country.

Ungrateful, medieval cock suckers. And fuck the Pentagon and our entire government. We are such pussies. Tell Afghanistan so suck a dick. Nothing like invading nations, forcing them to comply, being the most powerful nation in the world and then always acting like a complete pussy.

You are such a racist. If they are medieval cocksuckers like you say, your country has a lot to do with it.

-MBP

1/17/12

How am I racist? Sorry if I believe in the preeminence of American policy.

I am actually surprised it took you this long to find the post haha.

In reply to Relinquis
1/17/12
Relinquis:
MMBinNC:

I am always amazed at how stupid the media can be. I assume that we are all on the same page- out of context this looks bad and boastful. But put into the mindset of a warrior (which I am not obv but I'll try to assume) these men were trying to kill his friends, sheltered a man who killed thousands of Americans, kidnap and torture soldiers, and continue to attack them in the hellhole that is Afghanistan. If some motherf*cker is spraying bullets at me and my friends and I get him...you would be damn sure he isn't being treated with reverence. It's war- not a fuckin game.

The Taliban, or non-Taliban Afghan freedom fighters (i.e. citizens who take up arms against weapon wielding foreigners in their country) would share this view. Except the motherf*cker in their case would be an American...

More broadly...

The rationale for US occupation and Taliban rule share the trait that they are both totalitarian ideologies. They are also both false.

Americans pissing on dead Afghan bodies is an accurate depiction of what you are doing to their country. It is not a "shocking" video because it is the exception to reality. You are not there out of the kindness of your hearts or to protect little schoolgirls who want to go to school. You continue to occupy their country out of either imperialism, totalitarian ideology, or for commerce (pick whichever reason applies in this case I'd suggest ideology.)

The reason there is an outrage is that this act (desecrating a dead body) by American soldiers challenges the myth that you are there to do good in a way that dropping bombs from unmanned drones doesn't. It challenges the narrative that you are fighting some kind of "moral war". The idea that your presence in another country is sinister is jarring to most Americans, but it is reality.

That's why we see the cognitive dissonance in this thread among people who haven't accepted the religion of America's moral war. People like original poster, ANT, have obviously reconciled their position by accepting the totalitarian ideology that America's role in the world is to spread "freedom" by use of military might as faith, or alternatively that it is fighting a "moral war" (the Christopher Hitchens argument for imperialism). This is clear from his comments like "might is right" and other forms of nonsense that he has mentioned in various threads. Like all totalitarian ideologies, it is false. For others who have not accepted the religion of the US state and moral war, this act is jarring because it exposes them in a tangible way to the knowledge that they are sacrificing their tax dollars, fellow citizens lives and collective reputation for someone else's misguided agenda.

We've been here before. Remember the Iraq helicopter "collateral murder" video that was posted on Wikileaks? It showed Americans that their war machine doesn't give a toss about morality or killing civilians, journos, or unarmed people. It challenged the false premise that you are fighting a "moral war" in a way that seeing rockets launched from ships or bombs dropped form the sky doesn't.

The sad irony is that most people in Afghanistan continue to suffer from two totalitarian ideologies, each of which purports to want to liberate them from the other and each of which feeds of off this conflict (Taliban rule and the US occupation)...

Question to the original poster (ANT). Are you religious by any chance? If not, are you sympathetic to one size fits all views of how the world should be / is (either utopian or dystopian)?

Disclosure: I'm not American. Have been trying not to reply to this thread as I usually avoid theological discussions, but in the end I had to share my non-American view of your misguided Afghanistan adventure.

Thank you for this post. Unfortunately most of the Americans on this forum will never see the sense in it.

-MBP

In reply to TNA
1/17/12
ANT:

How am I racist? Sorry if I believe in the preeminence of American policy.

I am actually surprised it took you this long to find the post haha.

You are a racist because you consider Afghani's and Iraqi's medieval cocksuckers who should thank America for bombing the shit out of them and pissing on their corpses.

(p.s. is there any proof that the corpses were actually Taliban?)

-MBP

1/17/12

I suppose by medieval cocksuckers I should refer to Taliban specifically, but even if I intended it be applied to everyone, the living standard in Afghanistan is pretty much medieval. I mean fuck, no running water, horrible literacy rates, no healthcare, on and on. Might as well be the 15th century.

I also didn't include Iraq. Iraq is a pretty developed nation, just fucked up.

In reply to Bondarb
1/17/12
Bondarb:

I dont know if you guys are talking at all to me but Im far from a "leftist". Just so you know, conquering countries in order to make them democracies is about as leftist as it gets and you guys support it...and of course like all liberal utopian fantasies it leads to nothing but embarassment and failure as well embodied in these videos of soldiers acting like idiots.. You are right that I dont care about "Islamofacists" and their atrocities...I live in new york not afghanistan and we have our own problems to worry about. If you want to help poor islamic women then start a chariyt dont use my tax dollars to kill a bunch of people for no good reason and piss on them. Ridding the world of bad people is a liberal utopian fantasy and videos like this are what come of it.

And saying in gung ho fashion that you would also do shit like this is just immature and stupid...as I said ask the soldiers themselves about it and i bet they would say it was the biggest mistake of their lives.

Another voice of reason on this forum. Thanks for commenting.

-MBP

In reply to TNA
1/17/12
ANT:

I suppose by medieval cocksuckers I should refer to Taliban specifically, but even if I intended it be applied to everyone, the living standard in Afghanistan is pretty much medieval. I mean fuck, no running water, horrible literacy rates, no healthcare, on and on. Might as well be the 15th century.

I also didn't include Iraq. Iraq is a pretty developed nation, just fucked up.

ANT, read a history book from time to time. America is very much responsible for the current living standards in Afghanistan. Go back 30-40 years before any foreign invasions, Afghanistan was fine.

-MBP

In reply to happypantsmcgee
1/17/12
happypantsmcgee:

MBP,

Again you come in here with this elitist attitude and claim that us 'lowly' Americans cannot possibly have the grasp on our foreign policy that you do. Its a tired trend and no more true today than it was any of the other countless times you've written about it.

That being said, you're definitely a smart guy, I have to give you that, but for fucks sake, stop preaching to 'Americans' about how they're brainwashed. You live in our hat.

LOL bro there's a reason I ignored this thread until now. I really really tried to resist. But there is just too much stupidity in this thread that needed to be addressed. If calling it out makes me an elitist then so be it. We do agree on one thing though - preaching to some of the crazy ass Americans on this forum is futile.

-MBP

1/17/12

MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.

Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.

The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.

Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.

1/17/12

Hhaha, this thread is going to become an orgy of SB's and MS's lol

In reply to cl234
1/17/12
cl234:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/wikileaks...

US soldiers handcuffed and shot civilians in the head including 5 children under 5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings

5 US soldiers were charged with gang-raping and killing a 14 year old girl before executing her family: a mother, father and six year old sister
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea...

US soldiers sprayed a car with up to 200 bullets because they didn't stop driving, killing a family with two children

I could literally go on all day with incidents like My Lai, Haditha etc but you get the point so please don't use 'oh but they did worse' as an excuse because when soldiers don't think anyone is looking they are clearing capable of behaving on a horrific level as well.
Do 'these scumbags... deserve to be revived, sodomized by a hog and then drowned? Or is it only the Taliban that should be punished.
I know these soldiers have experienced some traumatic and unimaginable things but that does not mean they are excused for wrongdoings. They need proper help and support for their tragedies but that does not make it okay for them to do something like that to other people

I have personally never experienced warfare but that doesn't mean I'm not capable of forming an opinion based on common sense. That's what we do every day. Is it wrong for me to call Freddy Got Fingered the shittest movie ever been made because I don't know what it's like to direct a movie, Bernie Madoff a dirtbag because I've never had the opportunity to steal billions etc? These aren't wrong conjectures to make and just because I personally have not been in a somebody's shoes doesn't mean I am incapable from judging their actions from a reasonable standpoint.

To that dog analogy, yes dogs get treats for catching out bad guys but if some pit-bull malls a 5 year old then they are 100% going to be put to death. Is that what we should do to the troops killing children? Also can we excuse the actions of some extremists just because they were conditioned to believe from childhood that the US are the enemies killing innocent people? Wrong behaviour cannot be excused no matter how they're trained and to be honest, humans brought up in American society should just know better.

Pissing on dead bodies is not that bad and on the scale of other stuff done during war probably ranks like 1 but something wrong is still wrong and encouraging this and saying we should do worse instead is even worse.

ANT, would love to read your response to this.

-MBP

In reply to TNA
1/17/12
ANT:
Frabjous:

Didn't read anything except OP, but I imagine this thread devolved down to the usual angry diatribe between "correct wing" ANT and "lefties".

That, said, I am left leaning overall and I have absolutely no problem with US marines pissing over Taliban bodies. (but filming it was not very smart, now we are going to suffer another mainstream round of debate about useless topics like this one).

This thread really shouldn't break down along those lines. I mean suppose someone is a huge liberal. They should consider the entire war a desecration and this pissing event just being the coup de grace.

Not sure if you mean that they "should" (as in, you expect them to) or they "should" (as in, if they are truly huge liberals).

Generally speaking, I was contrary to the wars (they seem a massive, massive waste of money in trying to obtain a result that could have been obtained in a cheaper way, but let's not get into that discussion), but still - in war anything but crimes vs humanity / infractions of Geneva treaty is allowed. Piss on their corpses, whatever. Don't particularly care.

I think overgeneralizing lefties as hypersensitive bleeding hearts is somewhat of a massive oversimplification - the same way as characterizing left wing as religious bigot hillbillies is.

Again, as a left leaning person, I find this news (the pissing scene) both unimportant and not something I particularly object to.

1/17/12

If American soldiers commit war crimes, yes, sodomize them by a hog.

If American were pissing on dead Iraqi soldiers I would actually be more enraged. See, to me, IMO, Iraqi soldiers were fighting for their government, just like American soldiers are. Within the Iraqi military there were especially horrendous groups that committed war crimes, just like there were German regulars and SS Einsatzgruppen.

Taliban fighters are fighting for a cause that is directly counter to human rights. The USA wants to leave that fucking country, we just want to leave it a Democracy. We can get into the argument that people should be free to govern how they see fit, but I think Democracy and human rights tend to be universally accepted as better than autocracy.

So by fighting for the Taliban you are fighting for people who think honor killing is cool, women should not be treated as equals, gays and other religions should be killed or destroyed, on and on. Basically the most vile things in the world.

I also don't know where I said every US soldier is Jesus in camo or doing Gods work. We prosecute scumbags all the time. Shit happens. How many Russians were prosecuted for war crimes. How many Germans or Japanese were prosecuted for war crimes (by their own military). We make mistakes, but there is an attempt to follow the "rules" of law.

In reply to TNA
1/17/12
ANT:

MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.

Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.

The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.

Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.

Nope, you're still not getting it.

-MBP

In reply to Sexy_Like_Enrique
1/17/12
Sexy_Like_Enrique:

Give these kids a break. They risked their lives to go fight and they sure as hell went through a lot of shit, both emotionally and physically. One of the kids I knew from my middle school went to Iraq as a marine, and returned home with a leg missing. Those crazy motherfuckers in Iraq, Pakistan, and Afghanistan throw all kinds of shit at you, including suicide bombing via all kinds of vehicles disguised as civilians. You never know when bombs are coming to get you, and these U.S. soldiers are stressed and paranoid as fuck about their safety.

It's funny that you can't see that your exact argument is used by some local sympathizers to justify what their sadistic asshole fucks are doing.

"Those crazy motherfuckers in [America] throw all kinds of shit at you, including [carpet] bombing via all kinds of vehicles disguised as [drones]. You never know when the bombs are coming to get you, and these [Taliban] soldiers are [still] stressed and paranoid as fuck about their safety [because they witnessed their parents, siblings, children being blown up by American attacks]"

See what I did there? Stress and post-traumatic shock doesn't justify what the evil Taliban does, and so it can't justify what these sadistic troops do either. Gang raping local girls, executing children, shooting at vans full of families etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. "Oh but those are just isolated events" is the standard argument. The problem is that we'll never know. Very few of these offences are caught, and even fewer are announced in western media. On the other hand, every single atrocity committed by the enemy is televised non stop. This is how the propaganda machine works. How is it that you don't understand this?

Anyway, the Taliban is completely evil. I hope every single one of them drops dead. I don't care that they have become what they are because of what they experienced in their life. What they are doing now is evil and thats what matters. Similarly, a percentage of US troops are also deranged fucks. I don't care what they went through either. Every single one of them that is caught doing something sadistic should face very harsh punishment. In some cases, they should be given the chair.

And with that, I'm signing off this thread. Peace out.

-MBP

In reply to manbearpig
1/17/12
manbearpig:
ANT:

MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.

Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.

The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.

Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.

Nope, you're still not getting it.

Let's see...you have never served in the military, live in Canada and are of Middle Eastern decent...you sound like you are going to have the least subjective and most well informed opinion on this topic. That is to say, you have no clue what these soliders are going through so can't really offer an accurate analysis, you live in a country that is safe soley because of it's neighbor (the one you so speak so well of) and your parents left the part of the world you love to defend...but you haven't moved back, and never will...so I think that makes you a grade A hypocrite.

And you're right, we're just a bunch of dumm 'mericans down here so splaining lotts and lotss of things to usss is fertile!!!

I really wish you had enough self-control to stay out of this conversation, alas, you are weak.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

In reply to cphbravo96
1/17/12
cphbravo96:
manbearpig:
ANT:

MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.

Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.

The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.

Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.

Nope, you're still not getting it.

Let's see...you have never served in the military, live in Canada and are of Middle Eastern decent...you sound like you are going to have the least subjective and most well informed opinion on this topic. That is to say, you have no clue what these soliders are going through so can't really offer an accurate analysis, you live in a country that is safe soley because of it's neighbor (the one you so speak so well of) and your parents left the part of the world you love to defend...but you haven't moved back, and never will...so I think that makes you a grade A hypocrite.

And you're right, we're just a bunch of dumm 'mericans down here so splaining lotts and lotss of things to usss is fertile!!!

I really wish you had enough self-control to stay out of this conversation, alas, you are weak.

Regards

LMAO so being an American who has served in the military makes you a more objective critic of what the US MILITARY does? No shit you'll defend every thing because you, by definition, cannot be objective.

Thanks for the laugh though!

Regards,

-MBP

In reply to manbearpig
1/17/12
manbearpig:
cphbravo96:
manbearpig:
ANT:

MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.

Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.

The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.

Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.

Nope, you're still not getting it.

Let's see...you have never served in the military, live in Canada and are of Middle Eastern decent...you sound like you are going to have the least subjective and most well informed opinion on this topic. That is to say, you have no clue what these soliders are going through so can't really offer an accurate analysis, you live in a country that is safe soley because of it's neighbor (the one you so speak so well of) and your parents left the part of the world you love to defend...but you haven't moved back, and never will...so I think that makes you a grade A hypocrite.

And you're right, we're just a bunch of dumm 'mericans down here so splaining lotts and lotss of things to usss is fertile!!!

I really wish you had enough self-control to stay out of this conversation, alas, you are weak.

Regards

LMAO so being an American who has served in the military makes you a more objective critic of what the US MILITARY does? No shit you'll defend every thing because you, by definition, cannot be objective.

Thanks for the laugh though!

Regards,

Doesn't necessarily make me more objective, but I have better insight into what conditions and situations these Marines have encountered...and understand that their real mistake was filming what they did and that their little end zone dance pales in comparison to the atrocities that are orchestrated by the Taliban on a daily basis.

Yet, as a typical liberal you are so far out of touch with reality it actually makes me sad. Half of the time you guys don't have the guts to call a spade a spade and you want to call terrorists 'extremists' all the while managing to conveniently forget the race of the suspect when it isn't 'white' and somehow fail to mention the common thread in nearly all of the potential and executed terrorist attacks on US soil...which is Islam. Then, when you're backed into a corner and have no choice but to admit the truth...in this case, that the Taliban is evil...you do so, but in the same breath you try to draw a moral equivalency between an organization that has the clear intent of violence and suppression (the Taliban) with that of an organization that attempts to spread democracy, peace and prosperity (the US military). People like you make me sick.

As an American, who has served and could potentially be drafted should the need arise, I have a vested interest in what American foreign policy is like and where we get involved. You don't. You will never be called up to serve your country...or mine...and I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with you and your liberal friends looking down your collective noses at those who do, have and will. As you stated, you have no use for facts and refuse to consider the stress and conditions these troops were under. Even worse, you try to twist reality to satisfy your demented liberal brain.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

1/17/12

Most Canadians I'm friends with are critical of U.S. economic and foreign policy, despite the fact that they directly benefit from both. Hypocrisy at its finest. Maintaining hegemony in the Middle East is essential to our economic longevity as long as we're dependent on oil (30+ years). And that's not just the US's economy, it's Canada's, Europe's and Asia's as well.

I think any person with morals would object to a soldier urinating on a dead enemy, regardless if he's a Taliban fighter. I'm as patriotic as anyone but I don't think we can defend their actions here.

1/17/12

SBs to cphbravo for that last comment. MBP, I wish you wouldn't smother some of your good points in liberal talking point BS. The point was made eons ago on this thread, but again the reason your moral equivalence is wrong is that the My Lais and Hadithas ( haditha is disputable btw) are the exceptions and most of us who did serve are absolutely sickened by it and would never imagine murdering innocents, whereas it is a specific tactic used by trained terrorists. I don't care how many Wikileaks links you and cl1234 post.

I know people who read the Nation think I'm a terrorist too, but if you don't see the distinction no reason to keep the flamewar going. Go niners.

1/17/12

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet

Urine used to be taxed. Once again the USA is donating things free to a far off land...

In reply to TNA
1/17/12
ANT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet

Urine used to be taxed. Once again the USA is donating things free to a far off land...

Is there no end to our charitable contributions and selfless giving?!?! LOL.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

In reply to cphbravo96
1/17/12
cphbravo96:
manbearpig:
cphbravo96:
manbearpig:
ANT:

MBP - Afghanistan has been constantly at war throughout its history. If you want to get salty about things, blame Europe and then the Soviets.

Considering that you are from the ME, you should agree that the way the US executes this war is far superior to the way the Soviets treated the Afghan people. You should also agree that the Taliban was a curse to Afghanistan and human rights in that country.

The US invaded not to keep the peace, but to attack the Taliban and stop the harboring of terrorists. We have since stayed in an attempt to rebuild or help a country. It isn't going to happen, but hey, we tried. Once we leave the country will go back to keeping women in the basement and stoning people who get raped.

Oh wait, that isn't medieval at allllllll.

Nope, you're still not getting it.

Let's see...you have never served in the military, live in Canada and are of Middle Eastern decent...you sound like you are going to have the least subjective and most well informed opinion on this topic. That is to say, you have no clue what these soliders are going through so can't really offer an accurate analysis, you live in a country that is safe soley because of it's neighbor (the one you so speak so well of) and your parents left the part of the world you love to defend...but you haven't moved back, and never will...so I think that makes you a grade A hypocrite.

And you're right, we're just a bunch of dumm 'mericans down here so splaining lotts and lotss of things to usss is fertile!!!

I really wish you had enough self-control to stay out of this conversation, alas, you are weak.

Regards

LMAO so being an American who has served in the military makes you a more objective critic of what the US MILITARY does? No shit you'll defend every thing because you, by definition, cannot be objective.

Thanks for the laugh though!

Regards,

Doesn't necessarily make me more objective, but I have better insight into what conditions and situations these Marines have encountered...and understand that their real mistake was filming what they did and that their little end zone dance pales in comparison to the atrocities that are orchestrated by the Taliban on a daily basis.

Yet, as a typical liberal you are so far out of touch with reality it actually makes me sad. Half of the time you guys don't have the guts to call a spade a spade and you want to call terrorists 'extremists' all the while managing to conveniently forget the race of the suspect when it isn't 'white' and somehow fail to mention the common thread in nearly all of the potential and executed terrorist attacks on US soil...which is Islam. Then, when you're backed into a corner and have no choice but to admit the truth...in this case, that the Taliban is evil...you do so, but in the same breath you try to draw a moral equivalency between an organization that has the clear intent of violence and suppression (the Taliban) with that of an organization that attempts to spread democracy, peace and prosperity (the US military). People like you make me sick.

As an American, who has served and could potentially be drafted should the need arise, I have a vested interest in what American foreign policy is like and where we get involved. You don't. You will never be called up to serve your country...or mine...and I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with you and your liberal friends looking down your collective noses at those who do, have and will. As you stated, you have no use for facts and refuse to consider the stress and conditions these troops were under. Even worse, you try to twist reality to satisfy your demented liberal brain.

Regards

Is it possible for me to respect your commitment to this country (it admittedly goes far beyond mine), but to think that you're a nut, and very probably a racist? This sort of gung ho right-winged ideology is every bit as polarizing and closed-minded as you claim of "demented liberal brain[s]". Risking your life in the service of this country is as admirable an act as I can think of, but it doesn't give you political and sociological insight.

1/17/12

I'm pretty sure ANT is not a racist. The guy is dating an Indian girl. Not a lot of Klansmen do that.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/17/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

I'm pretty sure ANT is not a racist. The guy is dating an Indian girl. Not a lot of Klansmen do that.

2 things--it wasn't him I said might be racist, and dating someone of a difference race doesn't exempt you from being racist.

1/17/12

ANT has already been called racist in this thread, so if I get confused on which liberal is throwing that accusation around at who then one must forgive me.

I would say dating someone of another race probably suggests you aren't a white supremacist.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/17/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

ANT has already been called racist in this thread, so if I get confused on which liberal is throwing that accusation around at who then one must forgive me.

I would say dating someone of another race probably suggests you aren't a white supremacist.

[email protected] to turn "liberal" into some kind of insult. I'm actually a Romney supporter if that means anything to you. Also, saying Islam is the root of "nearly all of the potential and executed terrorist attacks on US soil", and racially profiling kind of go hand in hand with racism. Also, being racist /= being a white supremacist, just to give you a heads up.

1/17/12

umm, Islam isn't a race last time I checked...

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/17/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

umm, Islam isn't a race last time I checked...

I'm convinced you're a troll, or that you completely lack reading comp skills. You're not very good at connecting the right dots.

1/17/12

In fairness to me, the great white bigot, I almost kicked a kids ass for insulting my Muslim friend. I just don't think pissing on someone is such a big deal when we killed them. I suppose I consider killing to be the greater evil.

I apologize for thinking all people should be free and everyone should be able to be whom they want to be. This isn't a Christian ideology or some blind American way of thinking. I just think the best of people comes out when they are not oppressed. Hence my libertarian beliefs and wish for a smaller government.

We cannot force these ideals on people and Afghan will do what they want, but I really do not feel bad for people who fight for the right to oppress others basic human rights.

So yeah, I support pissing on these people.

In reply to jaschen27
1/17/12
jaschen27:
Virginia Tech 4ever:

umm, Islam isn't a race last time I checked...

I'm convinced you're a troll, or that you completely lack reading comp skills. You're not very good at connecting the right dots.

Umm, calling someone racist because they think Islam is an evil or terrorist religion--rightly or wrongly--is idiotic. Islam isn't a race. Liberal Democrats use this line of reasoning all the time. Take Kirsten Powers, the Democratic strategist. She suggested that Republicans are racist for their views on Islam being an evil religion. Whether or not Islam is evil or not is not the point--Islam is no more a race than Christianity is a race.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
1/17/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:
jaschen27:
Virginia Tech 4ever:

umm, Islam isn't a race last time I checked...

I'm convinced you're a troll, or that you completely lack reading comp skills. You're not very good at connecting the right dots.

Umm, calling someone racist because they think Islam is an evil or terrorist religion--rightly or wrongly--is idiotic. Islam isn't a race. Liberal Democrats use this line of reasoning all the time. Take Kirsten Powers, the Democratic strategist. She suggested that Republicans are racist for their views on Islam being an evil religion. Whether or not Islam is evil or not is not the point--Islam is no more a race than Christianity is a race.

This is what I said:

"Also, saying Islam is the root of "nearly all of the potential and executed terrorist attacks on US soil", and racially profiling kind of go hand in hand with racism."

Again, at no point in time did I say Islam is a race, This is the second time in 3 posts that I've had to explain how something /= something else. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. After you finally understand this, feel free to say something to the effect of "liberals always throw around words like that".

1/17/12

Just to be clear, I think ANT is childish, cphbravo6 is possibly racist, and Virginia Tech 4ever is a dumbass.

1/17/12

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