Master's in Accounting won't translate to IB... Is it the case?
Hi All,
I've been lurking around for a long time since my last post. Let me just say that I love the humorous and useful comments you guys give to people. Now I'd like to get some opinion/insights on something.
Currently I'm in a top Master's program for accounting (Michigan/UT-Austin/Illinois), and got my undergrad degree in Economics from a 2nd tier university (I started the Master's program right after graduation.)
After talking to a career advisor at my university, she told me that basically as someone who hadn't had any prior internships at a BB or boutique, I won't stand a chance when it comes to IB full-time recruiting, and that I'd better look for jobs in auditing, or work in a Fortune company as an analyst.
I wanted to ask you guys (some of you may have been working in the industry for a while and have done recruiting): is what my advisor told me correct? My previous internship experience include internship at an accounting firm, and internship at a small VC shop. I've always wanted to work at an IB, but never got the opportunity because of the placement at my undergraduate school, as well as my undergrad major. I hope that I can land a full-time gig at an IB comes this recruiting season in September, but I'm unsure of whether it'll happen. Any suggestions/insights appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Network.
Network.
You're chances are VERY
You're chances are VERY slim. I'm not trying to be a dick, just a realist. I'd take the Fortune 500 analyst route, work for a few years (maybe do a CFA) and aim for a top MBA program. Seriously, right now if you're looking to do M&A it's mostly FIG work and, most likely, the experience you'll otherwise be getting will be in restructuring, work-outs, etc. . .
You've got a shot
I wouldn't say your odds are VERY slim, but they're definitely not great. The trick here is to absolutely network your tail off. Accounting is absolutely essential in investment banking, and having a masters degree in accounting will definitely showcase that skillset and demonstrate your ability to handle the workload. That said, unfortunately in this market it is ultra-competitive, and a masters degree usually translates to an analyst position (which BBs often prefer UGrads for). It will definitely be easier for you to pursue Fortune 500 companies and run from there, or go back to a Big 4 - but sometimes we don't want what is easiest (I think this is where your career advisor was going - her job is to secure a position for you, especially in this market, and her fear is probably that if you chase these BBs and get nowhere, you'll be screwed).
If I were you, I would do my research on ibanking, the position and even the banks you apply to in order to show a strong fit and understanding of the business, network as much as you can, and give it a shot. Additionally, I would make sure to apply for at least a few of the other positions that you are clearly better suited for (in terms of degree), and show enthusiasm for them - it never hurts to have a backup plan. Best of luck.
IBanker
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Thank you for the reply
Thank you for the reply BankonBanking. Yes I agree with you that my career advisor was trying to find me the most secure job route. I've done some research on the alumi base and looked at the recruiting stats of the program before, and about 90% of the people in the program go on to work for a Big 4. I think this is because unlike me, most of them already had their minds set on working in auditing/tax. In 2007, about 7% of the graduating class went into some sort of IB/financial services firm. So I know I definitely have a chance, and I will network very hard to try to get the position.
I will apply for IB jobs, as well as auditing and Fortune analyst jobs, just so that I don't put all of my eggs in one basket :]
Another alternative is to work in the advisory department of a Big 4. Although I know it's not the full-blown IB, I think it could be the closest thing I'll get to it. I've just heard that once you go into a Big 4, your chance of making it into the IB world is basically 0%. (According to my career advisor, again)
Thanks for the comment, I really appreciate it!
I actually have a different
I actually have a different viewpoint. I did the same thing as you (Econ undergrad, and then a MAcc), and I found that several banks were willing to interview me. I found that as long as you had a sound rationale as to why you did the MAcc, it can be a major asset. In fact, I think it was one of the main reasons I was able to secure a job in IB.
Thank you drphoebejigs for
Thank you drphoebejigs for the honest reply!
To be honest, I don't mind doing FIG work. If anything, I'd really like to get my foot in the door. So I'm still going to apply to those positions and try my best to leverage my contacts at various places (not many, but there are some), and contact alums to maximize my chances.
On your note about the CFA - I have considered it, but didn't study for it because many people tell me it's important for a job in investment management, but not in M&A. Can you tell me why you think a CFA would be a good idea?
Thank you!
Thank you!
I actually have a different viewpoint. I did the same thing as you (Econ undergrad, and then a MAcc), and I found that several banks were willing to interview me. I found that as long as you had a sound rationale as to why you did the MAcc, it can be a major asset. In fact, I think it was one of the main reasons I was able to secure a job in IB.
Really? It is great to know that someone in my shoes have secured a job in IB - it's encouraging :]
The reasons why I decided to enroll in the MAcc program:
1) Recruiting at my undergraduate university was not top-notch. Since I was not in the business school, my access to finance-related jobs were limited. The IBs that did recruit in my department were looking for Operations and IT analysts. I was not very interested in them, but applied to them regardless.
2) One major roadblock for me landing a job in finance was the fact I was not in the business school, and I had to find a way to gain access to the powerful alum base as well as better recruiting system of a better university. It was too late for me to transfer as an undergrad already, so I knew I had to do it as a graduate student. I could have done a Master's in Finance, but felt that it was a bit of an overkill, and it would have taken longer to complete. a MBA was out of the question, as I have 0 years of working experience post-grad. So I decided to go with the MAcc programs, something I felt that was more stable, will give me plenty of technical background for banking, and gave me several options after graduation. It only takes about a year to complete as well.
Can you share a bit more about your experience recruiting with the IBs?
Thanks for replying!
Well, At my school, I could
Well,
At my school, I could see all of the job postings in the business school (because our MAcc program was through our bschool), but I could only submit my resume if the company had made the job posting available to us. Typically, though, I could get the contact information of HR or one of the interviewers. I would then send them a resume and cover letter asking if I could be included in the recruitment process. Sometimes they said "no" but usually it was "yes." I would also just show up at recruitment events and talk to the employees there, and I would give them a copy of my resume after explaining my situation.
IMO, it seems the reason that IBs don't recruit MAccs is not because of lack of ability, but rather, because most MAccs pursue public accounting. Once they find out you are interested (either by emailing or coming to recruiting events), they are more than happy to include you in the process.
On a side note during my MAcc, I took as many finance classes as possible with the MBAs. This also improves your skills and exhibits interest.
Also
Also remember that you can work in the advisory department for a Big 4 (as you said), then transition into B school, and break into banking, consulting or the like through that avenue, where you Big 4 advisory coupled with B school will make for a compelling case to break into BB banking. It's not necessary by any means, but I just wanted you to realize that there is no such thing as once I do this, I can never do that. If B school is of interest, that is always a path to consider in the future, again, if you need to.
IBanker
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My MAcc program
Well,
At my school, I could see all of the job postings in the business school (because our MAcc program was through our bschool), but I could only submit my resume if the company had made the job posting available to us. Typically, though, I could get the contact information of HR or one of the interviewers. I would then send them a resume and cover letter asking if I could be included in the recruitment process. Sometimes they said "no" but usually it was "yes." I would also just show up at recruitment events and talk to the employees there, and I would give them a copy of my resume after explaining my situation.
IMO, it seems the reason that IBs don't recruit MAccs is not because of lack of ability, but rather, because most MAccs pursue public accounting. Once they find out you are interested (either by emailing or coming to recruiting events), they are more than happy to include you in the process.
On a side note during my MAcc, I took as many finance classes as possible with the MBAs. This also improves your skills and exhibits interest.
Thank you for the comment. Actually, the MAcc program that I'm attending is part of the business school. Therefore I have access to all the job postings. I was referring to my undergraduate university when I said that Economics students didn't get access to most finance jobs, because it was not part of the Business school. This is a reason that I wanted to get into the MAcc program - to get access to the job postings.
I will be taking several finance courses over my program, including valuation, which I think will be really helpful. Your advice on emailing the recruiters directly about jobs not targeted at MAcc students is great - that is what I will do when recruiting starts!
You have provided me with some great info, thanks!
Definitely
Also remember that you can work in the advisory department for a Big 4 (as you said), then transition into B school, and break into banking, consulting or the like through that avenue, where you Big 4 advisory coupled with B school will make for a compelling case to break into BB banking. It's not necessary by any means, but I just wanted you to realize that there is no such thing as once I do this, I can never do that. If B school is of interest, that is always a path to consider in the future, again, if you need to.
IBanker
www.BankonBanking.com
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It is definitely an option that I'm keeping open. Yes, a MBA degree is definitely part of my plan for the future, so this is potential path. Although getting into IB straight after graduation, work for a couple of years, then transition to another industry would be better for me.
With that M. Accounting,
With that M. Accounting, you're VERY qualified.... to audit my goddamn taxes.
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I have a next level rolodex.
You went to UM?
Hi All,
Currently I'm in a top Master's program for accounting (Michigan/UT-Austin/Illinois)
If you told me exactly which school you are going to then I can help you, but I am guessing that it is UofM, because Michigan doesn't belong in that Group (unless ofcourse you are a student in that program you may think so). The top three would be UT-Austin/BYU/Illinois.
If you really are in Michigan, well then my advice may not be so helpful because it has a two-semester (30 credit hour) program that ends in the spring.
Although it is possible that you are going to UT-Austin, because that 7% statistic you mentioned sounds familiar to me and I did see those stats that you were talking about a while back.
If you are going to UT then good for you, because it is a 12-18 month program and at least three semesters. Here is what you need to do:
Optional - During the fall recruiting season you can apply for a spring internship with an accounting firm (Big 4 or whatever) in any field that you are interested in (Audit, Tax, FAS, etc.) or what you can get.
This will allow you to have a backup plan if banking fails and you will make a ton of money to pay for school, since you are paid hourly and get time and a half for overtime, which will be plenty during tax season (I once made over $600 in one day!!)
During the spring you will recruit for an SA position in banking (so make sure that your internship would not interfere with recruiting otherwise don't do it since you already have a few internships under your belt).
If you get an SA position, you will still graduate the following fall which will allow you to enter full-time recruiting for banking with an SA under your belt, and possibly a FT offer in your back pocket as a bonus if you performed well during the summer.
Anyway I hope that you find my advice useful and more helpful than the typical "network your ass off" answer that most people always offer in these types of threads.
I was in the same boat as you are now and did ABSOLUTELY ZERO networking and got an offer at a BB. Now, obviously networking is a good thing but I think that going the S.A. route is a lot better than simply "networking" and applying for a full-time position. Obviously you can network do get an SA position, but again what would be more important is going to company presentations at your school and talking to employees and trying to get one of them to push your resume into the interview pile.
Good Luck!
stk123, I think your
stk123, I think your advice is absolutely great and valuable.
My only concern is this: I can actually graduate in the summer with just taking a couple of class, and start working full-time right after the first summer session is over; while if I do the summer internship route in banking, I'd have to finish my schooling in the Fall, which means a 6 months delay in graduation. This presents the problem of banks not recruiting for starting dates of January-ish.
After reading your comment, I thought more about the spring internship you talked about. You know how the school has an arrangement where you can do a spring internship full-time for the first half of the semester, and take a couple of condensed versions of courses in the 2nd half? Well I was thinking, since I don't really need an accounting internship to work in the Big 4, would it be possible to land a spring internship with a bank, then graduate at the end of the summer, as planned?
Is it rare for a student to apply to both the internships and full-time positions of a firm?
It wouldn't work with a bank
It wouldn't work with a bank since those internships are set up between the school and the accounting firms, and my understanding is that banks wouldn't set up such an internship with your school
When it comes to recruiting for Banking whether SA or full-time, most banks if not all will recruit students that graduate between December and June (Fall, Spring or first summer semester). This will allow you to recruit for full-time in your last fall semester for positions that will start in July. You will basically have 6 months of vacation between graduation and your start date. You can either work or enjoy life.
But remember that if you do land an SA position then you have a good chance of landing a full-time position and will not have to recruit for full-time anyway.