MBA? MSF? MAE?
Hello! I'am a new member here on wall street oasis and I just need some advice on whether to go graduate school and second what type of graduate school to go to.
I have recently graduated from a large state university in the southeast with a BS in Economics. Since graduating I have done a Disney College Program and saw my health go south. I'am currently still recovering but i need to know what i should do once I' am ready. I have heard that a masters in Applied Economics or a Masters in Finance can help me get an initial job, but i've also heard that an MBA can do the same depending on what school it's from. I don't really know which one to do, if any.
I was wondering what types of jobs are available which type of degree holder, MAE MSF or MBA.
A University in my area offers a short, full time MBA that I see caters to recently college graduates with little experience. what is the general consensus regarding such programs? and second should i do that program or a more specialized masters. Again I'm only trying to get an inital job to get my feet wet.
Thanks!
It all depends on what kind of job you want.
If you've worked full-time for less than two years, do an MSF. No decent MBA program will admit you without a good amount of work experience.
Yeah, I wouldn't go into that MBA program you're talking about. I would go into an MSF program since you have limited experience. Find something you like and then work a few years and then maybe get an MBA. Look at http://www.msfhq.com for a list of MSF programs around and depending on where you want to live and work, go to that program. MSF programs are mostly regional so keep that in mind.
Good luck.
Ok thanks for the feedback. Any opinions about a masters in applied economics?
Don't know much about this path. I guess if you want to be an economist it could be a good idea depending on the school, but I just know that the MSF is prob more versatile. The MSF can lead to S&T, research, Investment banking, or commercial banking.
Masters in Finance vs. MBA (Originally Posted: 12/26/2006)
Masters in Quantitative Finance vs. Masters in Financial Engineering vs. Masters in Finance vs. MBA...Does anyone have any experience or insight as to which type of graduate program investment banks are looking for their potential employees to have?
...heed the wise words of Dr. Seuss...
"You can read alot of books, IB for beginners, or "How To Cook"...but when you apply, will you look cool, when they ask, "where did you go to school?"
...In other words, I'll take a Masters in Botany at an Ivy League over a 2nd tier B-school anyday. The name of the game is "The Name Game" and at the end of the day, every Director or MD wants to spout off the resume's of their grunts and associates alike as they recruit target school standouts regardless of what people say on this forum. I would say go for the degree that will provide you with more networking capabilities and career enhancement possibilites b/c of the institution.
If you get into all three programs at the institution of your choice, go for the MBA. NORMALLY, In terms of appeal to banks, it's more ecumenical in scope and concept, something BB look for when recruiting for mid-level/associate positions.
Mostly, S&T and Quant HF usually recruit students at Masters in Finance, Quantative Finance, and Financial Engineering are programs.
Typical Corp. Finance and IB employers mostly recruit MBAs for their kind of work.
Im curious as to what prestigous school you attended vadremc.
Masters of Finance (Originally Posted: 06/09/2013)
Is Master of Finance a poor cousin of MBA Finance? Reason why I ask is even though it is considered a great degree in itself I find more and more folks with MSF aligning towards an MBA later in thier life...
For the record I have 2 years experience in a hedge fund BO.CFA L1 and moving to europe to pursue my MSF and would ideally want to work in investment scheme of things( ER/Research/IB/PE).
Will a lack of MBA hurt my progression later on in my career even though I have no interest in running the business or being the CEO as long as I get to work on researching and hunting for the next best investment idea and get to keep doing it.
I have an MSF, and now have no intention of going back for an MBA (unless I get laid off and cant find something relevant).
Many people I went to school with still plan to do MBAs - as many of them got F500 jobs where progression can be hindered by the lack of MBA
The reason why the MSF has this impression are because the degree is a) not as established in the US as the MBA, b) because younger students pursue an MSF while an MBA is still for career changers/those who are more advanced in their career and c) because the schools offering the MSF degree are not at the same caliber as those offering top MBA's.
As time goes on I think you will see more established people pursuing the degree as it is a focused education and takes half the time of an MBA. Right now were are not at that point though.
There aren't that many pure mfin programs that are really strong, aside from Princeton and MIT. Also, the value of a top MBA has been tested over many years and has proven to be extremely valuable while a mfin has not yet passed this test.
If you're looking to get into banking or consulting, do an MBA. If you want something more specialized such as quant trading, derivatives pricing, risk management, etc., then opt for the mfin.
Yeah, this isn't true at all. Princeton is not a traditional MSF program. MIT is obviously the best program out there. The MBA has been "proven" as an excellent rebranding tool, but as most people agree not really hard educationally.
Saying just do an MBA is a lot easier said than done. Top MBA admission requires strong GPA, work experience as well as GMAT and EC's. If you have a poor UG GPA or cannot land a good job then your prospects of getting into a top MBA are dim. This might be a situation where you decide to go back to school, enhance your finance education and also have a shot at banking, F500 rotational programs, etc. The MSF can be a great spring board for you to get into a good career track, put a strong GPA on your resume and improve your chances for a top MBA later on down the road.
True that but what if I am targeting the kind of roles say...ER or being a research analyst with PE or working in HF where the skillset needed are more in line with having your modelling right, researching & analysing your industry and 80% of time you are really sitting your ass down and learning/studying and applying the skills to get your assessment right with regards to the investment being made....
Even though i am acutely aware of the fact that the said profiles above are swarmed by MBAs but i just dont see what exactly additional he/she can bring to table which I with my MSF cant...
MA Econ or MFin or MBA or ? (Originally Posted: 10/23/2013)
I graduated in April and I'm pretty sure I'm going to be stuck working where I am now doing glorified data entry, or I guess they call it operations (there's 0 room to move up because it's a small company), for the next 3 years. I'm interested in a career in investment banking or Asset Management. I can't network because of my job/living situation it is physically impossible (I don't like near a city with any financial community). I am kind of stuck in the job I am at due to needing to finance my wife's schooling, I am 25 if you are wondering.
In 3 years time, assuming I am still where I am, and assuming I have completed the lvl 3 CFA exam (I finished lvl and am registered to take level 2), which do you think would be advisable for me to pursue to try to place myself for what I would like to do?
I only have a 3.4gpa so I doubt I can get into any top program. For either an MFin or MA I would have to take 1 year of courses to improve my math since any reputable program requires decent math (my finance program only required calc1 and business stats). That's fine for me and I've already researched the appropriate courses I would take. If I take a year doing some math/econ courses I could potentially show a higher GPA, say 3.7 (math/econ has always been my stronger point, not all the accounting courses I took in the double major). Hopefully then I could place into a better masters program.
Any MBA program I'd attempt to get in I would probably need to be in a 2 year program to attempt a career change, but from people I've talked to in finance or who've completed an MBA themselves they all say an MBA would be useless for me since for finance jobs, everywhere hiring MBAs want finance experience and I'm likely to spend $100k on something that won't add any value.
For simply trying to improve my marketability and get a shot at recruitment for entry-level jobs again, a masters seems more appropriate and although a MFin seems like the obvious fit, I have to wonder if it's really worth spending the $40k most places want for an MFin rather then doing an MA in econ, where the price would be considerably cheaper (1/10 the price). Yes, I might learn some more applicable things in the MFin program, but is it really truly needed? Plenty of people make it far in finance with only an undergrad and then an MBA and no masters... I am simply going to be doing this to try and get another shot at a good finance job. I mean, I went to school with people who landed investment banking jobs so I realize what you know maters a lot less than simply being given the opportunity.
Do you think I should attempt a masters, an MBA or just move back into a major city after 3 years of unrelated experience and attempt to start a career in finance using nothing more than my passed CFA exams as an in?
I don't think this background will get you in to a top 20 MBA program.
I don't think you have an in at the elite MFin programs.
I think your best bet is to lateral to a similar BO job to what you have now in a big city, ideally NYC (assuming you don't have kids), ideally at a big firm. You will need at least $55K of pre-tax income to cover your own expenses in NYC; you can then use any additional income to finance your wife's education.
Then you lateral again in 12-18 months into an MO or FO gig.
I don't think spending $40K makes sense for your situation right now.
I think you should get an MBA.
If you are talking about a MFE then yes, you need more math. An MSF really only requires calc and stats. The better question is how can you go back to school when you say you are financing your wife's schooling?
Ops blows. I wouldn't focus on banking right now. I would focus on emailing and calling alumni in F500 firms and seeing if you can get into a leadership program or straight into corporate finance. Do the same for Big 4 accounting and their valuation programs. Or credit analysis at a local bank.
MBA = UG prestige + UG GPA + Major + Work Experience (brand x function) + Work Promotion + EC's + GMAT^2
You have a decent enough UG GPA. I don't know about the brand. You can study and get a 700+ on your GMAT. The thing that will fuck you is back office at a no name firm. No brand, no function and no skills.
F500 will give you the brand and ability to lateral into different groups. It will give you promotion chances also. Credit analysis at a bank will give you brand and transferable skills. Big 4 will do the same.
Consider IB to be your long term goal. You are too far from it now to leap directly in it. Start planning the first baby step. I'd say maybe a masters would do it, but you have your wife to consider. Find a better job, but one that will help you make the next step towards your IB/MBA journey.
Coming from an Econ background, I wouldn't recommend a MA in Economics.
It does not teach you the right things to prepare you for an entry level finance job. Most of the work is really theoretical and aims towards an academic career. Not that I regret that I've studied economics, but you just have to learn a lot of stuff on the side. Advanced micro (game theory), public finance, economic policy, etc. are all great topics for intellectual stimulation, but they are more or less useless in a real job.
cheers from germany
Thanks for the advice.
You're right, I don't have the background for a top MBA or MSF or MFE. I would like to be doing corporate finance over operations. I believe as of right now this is the appropriate course of action, but I feel limited because I probably have to accept something paying at least high $60s (I currently make almost double that, oil money) for everything to work out in my current situation for the next 3 years. When my wife is finished her schooling, me going back to school would be possible. I realize for my long-term career giving up $120k/yr for a job that is giving me applicable experience is the smart move, but is accepting the higher salary now for a few years going to completely destroy my future career potential or would I have a chance to start again after completing a ma, msf, mfe or mba?
I know of people who graduated before me who have applicable finance jobs, but not the ones they want and they are just as stuck as me in trying to get the job they want. Meanwhile there were people who graduated from undergrad that went straight into the jobs they wanted. I guess a fear I have is to accept a more finance oriented role doing something I don't even want to be doing anyway, in an attempt to meet this coveted "finance experience", essentially taking a 50% pay cut (if I'm lucky) and then that experience end up not even paying itself off.
Is going back to school, at a better school, with better campus recruitment (my school was a target for a really small financial sector that was in a different city but that's it), getting a higher GPA and a masters a decent route to getting the kind of jobs I want? Or am I just falling into the academic trap again where I think doing well will get me a good job, but it really just comes down to who you know anyway and I'd be better off just getting into a big city at a finance job and trying to network into a job I want?
Wait, you're making $120k in a 9-5 job and complaining? Wow bro.
Well, it's 50 hours a week, not 40 and I'm paid due to the location. It's not all about the money. I just want to feel like I am actually using my intelligence and knowledge, in an area I am interested in with potential to move up into roles with more responsibility and decision-making. I don't want to spend the next 40 years of my life treating the 40-50 hours a week I work as some necessity I am forced to do that I take 0 satisfaction in doing. I want my work to become a part of my life because I enjoy doing it and can take satisfaction out of it. I am no where near to making that a reality yet.
You are 25 and earning $120K/year working 50 hours/week. I don't think you can do all that much better in finance.
You need an interesting hobby. Mrs. Wifey is in grad school right now, so she is in less of a position to complain about a hang glider or motorcycle.
Sorry kid. You've got it about as good as it gets. Frankly, I have a pretty nice life, and you have a pretty nice life. Hopefully you are happy with your family situation. If you have all of that, and you're still unhappy and feeling as though your life somehow lacks meaning and purpose, it's time for you to go on some antidepressants.
But seriously, you need a good hobby. Work is something we have to do- it is not something that defines us and life is not work.
Working a dead-end, braindead job, even for a lot of money, gets old very quickly.
Haha
Avoid finance then.
You make $120k out of undergrad not in IB? Where do I apply?
I think the reason everyone is so unhappy is that we are always comparing our entire lives with other peoples' highlight reels. We only see our friends during their free time, and we usually only read posts or stories about people when they are talking about how much fun they had doing XYZ.
As long as we recognize that life is sometimes tough, the work we do is sometimes meaningless, and that everyone has it about the same and some people have it much much worse, we realize life is doable.
My life is fine now. I am not complaining about my current life at all.
The issue is that in 3 years when my wife is graduated and gets a job in a city, I will have to move to that city. I am currently in camp in the middle of no where, 5 hours away from a major city. When it comes time for me to move back to a city, I am not going to be able to get a job making near the money I am now because my work experience doesn't translate to any kind of job that exists in the city and even if it did, I would not want to be doing it.
When the time comes, I would much rather be plugging away at the life grind doing something related to my degree than not. There are so many good finance jobs I would enjoy out there and so many I wouldn't enjoy. I think I am currently only in a position to get the jobs I wouldn't enjoy, because (odd how this works) everyone else is trying to get the good jobs.
As TNA said, "avoid finance", and I will if I'm forced to be a commercial banker my whole life but then, what else do I do?
Are you working in North Dakota doing the oil thing?
I'd cross that bridge when you come to it. You might as well make the $120, save as much as you can and put your wife through school. Then, when you have to move, you can maybe do a PT MSF or just apply for an MBA. Either way no need to throw away a solid paying job to go to school right now or take a lower paying corporate finance gig. You'll have 4-5 years of experience and hopefully a good chunk in the bank.
IMO, start studying for the CFA/FRM/CAIA. You can do it remotely and at your own pace. They will help you get into grad school and will be valuable for any job in finance. Start it now and you can be done with it or nearly done by the time you have to move.
Master in Finance or MBA (Originally Posted: 04/01/2012)
I have been looking at to b-schools and it looks like their master in finance is a lot better if you want to go into quantitative finance or even sales and trading. Does their masters programs place students in jobs as well as the schools' mba programs?
Be specific with which schools and programs you are looking at. Can't really make a general statement like that.
The job placement is similar, but I would still go for the MBA.
Besides an MBA or MSF... (Originally Posted: 07/23/2012)
Besides going straight into an MBA program or MSF, what other types of programs/schooling can someone do to land an analyst job? Considering you did poorly in undergrad.
CS
MS Stats, MFE (aka, math finance or quantitative finance)... However, good luck getting accepted to a top program if you weren't a stellar u-grad. Also, they typically take engineering, math, stats, computer science u-grads. Very hard for a finance/econ/accounting major to get in. You best bet is to network if you're against an MBA or MSF.
MACC if you are really lucky....
Most MBA programs don't even take people straight out of undergrad. Also, a lot of MFE programs aren't so eager to take in kids straight out of undergrad.
Financial Engineering, Financial Math, Computer Science, Economics, Statistics, Mathematics, Accounting, Management, etc. - all Master's programs that could be worth pursuing if you are looking for a fresh start from your undergrad.
Masters in Finance or MBA in Finance? (Originally Posted: 02/04/2013)
I am an engineering graduate with 3.5 years of work ex. in software development. Now I am interested to pursue my masters in Finance. However, I am confused in joining a masters in Finance or should I go for an MBA degree with specalisation in Finance? Please suggest.
If oyu dont have any experience in Finance, go for a MBA If you have finance experience go for a Master
An MBA will be a lot more forgiving for a background such as yours. MSF's are for people who just graduated school or who had some finance-related work experience and are looking for a change of pace (going from big 4 to CF/IB, for example). I feel like an MBA who would also position you much better for a solid job after graduation, while an MSF would probably position you for an entry level role.
-guy who did an MSF and can't recall anyone who had considerable professional experience that wasn't finance/accounting related.
I will say this. Depending on your profile, the MBA is probably your best bet. With that said, you might want to consider an MSF (if you want more of a corporate finance position) or an MFE (if you are ok with more of a quant role) if your MBA profile is weaker and you are looking to transition into finance and maybe do an MBA later on, once you have more "high quality" experience.
I did my MSF with over 3 years experience.
Non-MBA Masters (Originally Posted: 12/08/2010)
I'm a graduating senior seriously considering applying to one of the non-MBA Master's programs at either UVA (Masters in Commerce), Duke (Masters in Management Studies), or one of the London schools. Does anyone know if I would be eligible to apply to the summer internship programs at the BB's, top boutique's, or PE firms? Also, if I am eligible, does anyone know how they would look at this, i.e.: positively because it shows that I'm serious about preparing myself for finance or negatively b/c it's not very common and they would wonder why I couldn't get into their firm the first time around?
I would GREATLY appreciate ANY advice from anyone with any knowledge of these programs whatsoever. Thanks ahead of time.
Also, if I should be considering another good program please let me know (keeping in mind it is currently too late for the Master in Finance at MIT and Princeton).
I know that the Duke program starts in Mid July, which throws a wrench in the standardized summer internships at most big banks
MFin or MBA (Originally Posted: 01/22/2013)
I'm currently a junior in HYP, and I'm thinking of going to graduate school immediately after my senior year, naturally an MFin or Masters in Financial Engineering/Financial Mathematics (at similar schools like MIT, Columbia etc) seems promising (as it doesn't really require work experience) - and its shorter than the MBA, only a year.
I'm most probably going into consulting or finance (preferably not IBD though). I was just wondering if this is a good idea, or I should just work for a few years first and do an MBA instead.
Why bother with it. Just get a job and wait for an MBA. An MSF won't provide much value to you and unless you get into MIT or Princeton it would be brand dilution.
Financial Engineering is a glorified computer science degree. Not the best fit for consulting - most useful for algo trading. Most schools post the MFE jobs placements. If you look at these, you'll see a lot of the job titles have "developer" in them.
As TNA says, MSF/MFin would be best - but you're already at HYPS... So why waste your time?
Might as well go to work... Do an MBA later if it aligns with your career goals.
Masters in Finance v MBA (Originally Posted: 08/10/2015)
I was exploring the London Business School site and they offer two programs to people with a couple of years work experience. The MBA costs around £67000 and the Masters in Finance costs £40000.
Why would anyone choose the Masters in Finance?
Does it allow you to enter at the associate level?
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