MS Finance vs. MBA Finance

I would like to get the forums group wisdom on this. Taking out brand name of the school, networking, leadership, soft skills, etc. Please inform me (us) on the difference in actual education in an MBA focused on Finance and a one-year MS Finance program. Ready, set, GO

 

MBA students come from a variety of backgrounds. Therefore the finance taught in MBA finance classes tend to start more broad and provide a less in depth education. MSF students tend to be finance majors which allows for a higher level conversation. Also, you are talking about 11 or more classes in finance, more than what is needed for a concentration.

Now this is not absolute as some programs have MSF students sit in with MBA students so that material will be at an MBA level for these joint classes. But the number of classes still say the say.

MBA = generalist MSF = specialist

 

IMO, CFA is more in depth than an MSF.

Listen, you really don't need a graduate degree in finance to work in finance. An MBA is about brand and pedigree and that is what you need in finance. If you want to work in IB, a CFA is largely a waste. IMO, it is a waste outside of Asset Management or maybe something fixed income.

 
Funniest
TNA:

IMO, CFA is more in depth than an MSF.

Listen, you really don't need a graduate degree in finance to work in finance. An MBA is about brand and pedigree and that is what you need in finance. If you want to work in IB, a CFA is largely a waste. IMO, it is a waste outside of Asset Management or maybe something fixed income.

whether you have or haven't done MBA, I don't care. You do sound stupid. MBA is not all about brand and pedigree. It's about the opportunity to network. Otherwise please feel free to do PhD.

CFA is not a waste, because CFA can 1) prove strengths in modeling 2) do equity research, when publicly traded firms chases you for good reviews to help enter IB later (reverse in IB) 3) show that you have more knowledge than FINRA licenses 4) automatic fiduciary duty whenever applies

In summary, you had shit advice. Bye.

 

techjobsyankee check out MSF master's incoherent shit again. Guess it's game on.

I compared MSF to "usually Level 1" because MSF are ideally for people who never scratched the finance surfaces. If you are finance undergrad, you get overlaps, period.

If there is a "derivatives" course, will they stop lectures once the CFA Level 1 portion is covered? No way.So they can teach beyond CFA Level 1 if they want, but all in all it's a foot-in-the-door. And I don't give a shit about graduate degrees because it's a "masters". I see such flying shit everywhere.

 

I have received readmission at my previous state school in fall for completing my bachelors, but I don't see a point in not been able to complete it as I would be studying business as opposed to electrical engineering earlier. I want to know whether MBA or a masters in finance which would be better option for me?

 

the more quantitative programs will probably like you 100% Quant profile.

Any meaningful MBA programs MBA business schools">M7/T10/T15 will be a stretch. T25 maybe. your GPA is not terrible or impressive. GMAT is borderline T25 average. You only have 1 year of full-time work so you need superstardom to get in.

MSF isn't a big wall street feeder, and besides, there are many specialty to choose within wall street, so who knows which one you want? (AM, S&T, IB, Risk, else?!)

[quote="M7 MBA, iBanking. Top MSF grad. AntiTNA. Truth is hard to hear! But... "] [/quote] [quote="DickFuld: Yeah....most of these people give terrible advice."] [/quote]
 

Hello wsorookie789,

Thanks for your feedback.

Which schools in particular would you suggest?

If my goal would be wall street, which track would you suggest I do? Which one would you suggest: AM, IB, PE, etc?

I am a total newbie on this and still studying what would be a great way to achieve my goal.

I was thinking MSF as I want to transition to Finance and MSF, I think, would be an ideal choice.

Thank you so much.

 

You need higher score to be both in top MS school and MBA school. Most top MBA school will want more work exp (you are expected to go through the program and become a manager). Top MSFin wants you to have 1 - 2 top percentile test score + a super cool hobby (skydiving or fish spearing of some sort)

MSFin is better for S&T, quant tracks / MBA is better for investment banking. For such a quant heavy profile, a quant track should be better for you. Both should pay the same out of school though MSFin will probably land you an analyst title and MBA associate

MSFin top schools are: CMU, Princeton, Berkeley, etc.

Aiming for Wharton, MIT or Harvard (assuming MBA) would be a super stretch (reason being they want more work experience and often have quants who have much better profiles apply), that said, if you experience some super hardship or has tons of bonus diversity point (disabled + rare nationality), your chance increase substantially with each diversity point

Depends on which way you want to proceed:

MBA: check out GMATClub MFin: check out quantnet

Best

 

Hello beefphoforthewin,

Thank you for your comment.

If I get overall GMAT of 750 minimum, will it still be a stretch to get into M7? T10-15?

I am South-East Asian residing in New Zealand and have studied in SEA, NZ, and CA. Reason being of not finishing engineering is full-time work and lack of financial resources then took a year break before jumping into business. I have been more interested in business rather than engineering or programming and was basically happy go lucky during the earlier years of my studies. I am on my mid 20's.

I am more interested in MFin rather than an MBA — which school would you recommend? I have my eyes on NYU, LSE, LBS, and UCL. Would this be reachable or is it too much to ask?

Which area of finance would you recommend to start?

Thank you again and I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

Cheers

 

do NOT get an MBA. you are not "ready" for it yet.

my perception is that american's don't value masters as much, so i think going to europe is a good idea.

since your canadian, i've taken the liberty of mapping your life out for you. you're welcome.

masters in finance @ LBS -> internship -> M&A london -> MBA -> PE -> master of the universe -> cocaine overdose in Buenos Aires at 70

welcome to the wonderful world of high finance

 
LLcoolJ:
do NOT get an MBA. you are not "ready" for it yet.

my perception is that american's don't value masters as much, so i think going to europe is a good idea.

since your canadian, i've taken the liberty of mapping your life out for you. you're welcome.

masters in finance @ LBS -> internship -> M&A london -> MBA -> PE -> master of the universe -> cocaine overdose in Buenos Aires at 70

welcome to the wonderful world of high finance

awful plan

LBS master in finance is for people with at least 2 years of work experience in financial services.

LSE Master in finance is for people with no experience, but good luck getting in. something like 2.5% of applicants are accepted.

 
LLcoolJ:
do NOT get an MBA. you are not "ready" for it yet.

Why am I not ready for an MBA? (im not confronting, I actually want to know why you say that because I've been told that many times.)

Also, what are everyone's thoughts on getting an MSc in Canada and then going to europe. Is that likely to happen? Im saying that because an MSc at LSE is around 14,000 pounds plus really high living expenses.. I dont know if it's going to be worth it.

 

LSE offers other programmes that can get you into finance such as their MSc in accounting and finance (good acceptance rate). I know an Italian dude in this program and he got interviewed by most of the BB so I think that you would have a good shot at a finance job following that path.

With your curriculum and McGill on your CV I am sure that you can get in.

Good luck!

 

Do your MBA in Europe.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing an MBA here anymore. There is a surplus in the supply of yuppie MBAs causing a consistent depreciation in starting salaries. Not to mention how many MBAs with experience that are sitting at home as we speak. There are plenty of yuppie MBA programs in Europe that open up the same job opportunities as Kellogg, Booth, Columbia, etc and you'll graduate owing 1/3 or less than what you would owe Aunt Sallie Mae. An MBA doesn't guarantee you a job on Wall Street or any job that will pay you enough to pay off the debt without living like a peasant so you should definitely do your homework on tuition costs and employment rates of MBA-Finance alums.

 
lg0718:
Do your MBA in Europe.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing an MBA here anymore. There is a surplus in the supply of yuppie MBAs causing a consistent depreciation in starting salaries. Not to mention how many MBAs with experience that are sitting at home as we speak. There are plenty of yuppie MBA programs in Europe that open up the same job opportunities as Kellogg, Booth, Columbia, etc and you'll graduate owing 1/3 or less than what you would owe Aunt Sallie Mae. An MBA doesn't guarantee you a job on Wall Street or any job that will pay you enough to pay off the debt without living like a peasant so you should definitely do your homework on tuition costs and employment rates of MBA-Finance alums.

An MBA from the USA at a top 10-15 school is still a great investment. If cost is an issue work for a company which provides tuition reimbursement and go to school PT. The top programs in Europe are just as competitive as many programs in the states and unless they are heavily subsidized cost the same if not more than here. Example:

INSEAD --> Tuition fees for the September 2010 and January 2011 entries amount to €52,000.

That isn't cheap. You can go to lesser known schools in the US for an MBA and save money, but opportunities will be less.

I don't think your blanket statement holds.

 
moneyneversleeps2:
Do your MBA in Europe.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing an MBA here anymore. There is a surplus in the supply of yuppie MBAs causing a consistent depreciation in starting salaries. Not to mention how many MBAs with experience that are sitting at home as we speak. There are plenty of yuppie MBA programs in Europe that open up the same job opportunities as Kellogg, Booth, Columbia, etc and you'll graduate owing 1/3 or less than what you would owe Aunt Sallie Mae. An MBA doesn't guarantee you a job on Wall Street or any job that will pay you enough to pay off the debt without living like a peasant so you should definitely do your homework on tuition costs and employment rates of MBA-Finance alums.

I agree with the statement above:

1.) I can confidently say 75% of somewhat decent schools in the US have an MBA program, regardless if they have a large business school or not. The people getting these non-50 MBAs are the type of people who write, "I want to be a CEO of a major company and be rich one day" in their personal statement.

2.) As for the programs in Europe, I've done some research and a lot of smaller schools I've never heard of have surprisingly great placement. I feel you get more knowledge from studying abroad than the actual MBA.

That said, for a recent undergrad, a Msc. in Finance will help you advance your career more than an MBA from a random school.

 

Did you consider working in commodities espeically in soft commdity markets? Companies like cargil, bunge, louis dreyfus, adm hire tons of ag econ kids... Work as a "marketer" for a number of years and than go get your mba...

 
rebelcross:
^^^Knowledge and specializing mean nothing and should not factor into your decision making. Only three things matter:

1) Placement 2) Placement 3) Placement

cant disagree

 
rebelcross:
^^^Knowledge and specializing mean nothing and should not factor into your decision making. Only three things matter:

1) Placement 2) Placement 3) Placement

cant disagree, everything alse bullshit

 

I can probably help you. In my opinion, you will be at an advantage w/ a Master's in quant. finance. MBA programs are known for having a broader focus and touching on a lot of soft skills that are not necessary (directly) to the HF world. A lot of HF's do not recruit from MBA programs for this reason and will pull kids from Master's and PHD programs. This is especially so if the target HF is branded as a quant-type fund. Of course exceptions exist, but I am sure others will generally agree.

 

What about a quantitatve-oriented MBA, i.e. going to Chicago or NYU and loading up on quant-oriented finance and statistics classes? Do you think that this would be comparable to an MSc?

 

It really depends on the hedge fund but I think generally the quant MSc is the way to go. A quant-heavy MBA at Chicago or NYU could work as well. Basically it just depends what kind of hedge fund you want to be at. Certainly there are hedge funds that recruit at business schools and there are hedge funds that recruit at quant MSc programs. It just depends which kind of hedge fund you want to be recruited by.

At the fund I work at (decidedly quant oriented) they told me that if I took time off to go to business school they would pay me less when I got back.

 

there are different types of hedge funds out there. the ones using fundamental analysis require mbas to analyze financial statements. the quantitative hedge funds require financial engineers. you can get into a hedge fund regardless of the program you choose. it's the type of hedge fund that you need to consider

there is no such thing as a quant-oriented mba program that's so quant-oriented that people will think you're the equivalent of a financial engineer. the two programs are very different.

http://jobsforwallstreeters.blogspot.com We send you quality jobs for front-office positions in investment banking, private equity, venture capital, hedge fund, sales & trading, equity research, and fixed income research.

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Most important thing is to know what companies will recruit at your program, whether it's MBA or Masters. It sounds like your Masters is not MFin, but what is it specifically?

I am sensing that you want a change of role, so I assume you want to move into investment research?

Some more details are necessary for us to be more helpful to you.

 

In Europe it is more common to get a MSc, whereas in the states it's more common to to get an MBA. Both programs are good and it depends on where you are from also. In the US you usually do 2 years as an analyst then go to business school to get an MBA and then you return as an associate or you go to PE or HF. In Europe on the other hand it is not necessarily required to go to business school the same way it is in the US, and also many people get an MSc and then go to investment banking

Either way, both are good programs, if you're in the US get an MBA after 2 years, if you're in Europe get an MSc right after your BSc. I've completed my BSc this year and I'm starting my MSc in October. My school joined the AMBA group so you can only get an MBA if you have 2 years of work experience

 

I was told (*TOLD) that an MBA really isn't needed. People just want reassertion that they can get into IB if all else fails so they say "M7 MBA." Experience matters more than an MBA. People get an MBA just to take a break from work or pivot industries. People high up in the industry told me this.

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So the answers above are all right and it depends on what you want

  • Most people who graduate with a Master of Fin will come out as an Analyst or go on the Quant track vs Associate Generalist with a MBA. MBA People who don't go to Banking or Consulting will have Manager title at F500, Master I don't know
  • Masters academic are typically harder and focus on knowledge while MBA students more often focus on the networking, partying and traveling (since they've been working hard pre MBA)
  • If you are younger you should go to MFin since most MBA programs want older applicants (3 - 7 years range). Some schools will even mention they won't let younger people in (most MBA business schools">M7 schools will say so in info session)

In term of safety, I would think you'll get a good job regardless whether you go to Princeton MFin or HBS MBA. For lower tier schools I really don't know. Probably time to research those schools would be better spent getting yourself into top programs

 

Have you looked at INSEAD admit stats? What makes you think your profile falls short? The fluency in a 2nd language is sometimes the barrier for US kids trying to get into INSEAD, but it sounds like you've got that nailed.

 

add 700+ GMAT to your fluency in German and US citizenship, then you'll be a rare breed - definitely worth a shot.

with LBS has both a Master's in Management and Finance, 10 months full time. LSE has a broad range of Master's, e.g. even one specialized in Private Equity.

with >2 yrs WE: INSEAD definitely the best, followed by IMD and LBS. class size of INSEAD is 900, last year McKinsey hired 130, BCG 60, Bain and Booz each 40+,...

 
24837:
add 700+ GMAT to your fluency in German and US citizenship, then you'll be a rare breed - definitely worth a shot.

with LBS has both a Master's in Management and Finance, 10 months full time. LSE has a broad range of Master's, e.g. even one specialized in Private Equity.

with >2 yrs WE: INSEAD definitely the best, followed by IMD and LBS. class size of INSEAD is 900, last year McKinsey hired 130, BCG 60, Bain and Booz each 40+,...

most of the people at insead who end up at mckinsey or bcg are people going back to mckinsey and bcg. they are all sponsored. actually in their employment reports you can see how many actually went back to their previous employer

 

I was also wondering this..went to a non target in the states, but have dual citizenship for US and Europe...should i go back to the states? or stay in europe for grad school

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk
 

My grades in college were bad. It wasnt until I studied abroad in France that i really found my motivation and career goals in life. So thats definitely what concerns me. I worked for the US defense department in Germany last year. Would that count for a year of work experience in addition to my current job? Additionally, I understand how important work experience is to the MBA application, but if i want to be involved in investments/consulting/or energy sector, would a MSc Finance or MBA be more beneficial to my goals?

Thanks guys

 

depends on the school, and on how unique you are. 700+ isn't that impressive, particularly if you have sub 3.5gpa. 750+ gets you noticed if you have a poor gpa (by that I mean 3.0 ish; if you're in the 2.* range you're probably f'd).

 

TEACHER181, bummer your thread hasn't had a response yet. Maybe one of these threads could point you in the right direction:

Or maybe the following users have something to say: ManOnTheMoon mdp goldarmor

I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 

In the end the double major won't matter too much tbh do it if you can keep your gpa up, and the general consensus is usually to avoid an MBA right after undergrad and get some work experience first

 

Assuming you still want to do IBD a couple of years in:

1) UTD is a plenty good school for its value but for any IB jobs in Texas, UT Austin and Rice and other good schools elsewhere will take your job. You'd be better off trying to transfer to UT after your 1st or 2nd year (I know UT has some kind of program where they promote kids from other UT campuses) compare to taking silly, easy classes and having double majors. All the trouble will be worth it once you get that IB gig. Heck, transfer anywhere else top 20 or above

2) Do not go into fast track of any program (MBA or MSF), same argument hold here. UTD is good for its value but won't get you where you want. There are plenty better MSF (Vanderbilt, UWash, Princeton, etc.) and definitely plenty better MBAs (I won't list them out)

That said, "some" UTD kids do end up in Tech Consulting (pay pretty well). If you still reason yourself to stay at UTD (for financials, family, scholarship,etc.) reasons, feel free to reach out to all the alums and seniors (not the best ones or the luckiest ones but all the other ones) to have a real feel of how the job market is. I would also talk to UTD MBAs and MSF alums about jobs if you want to do it straight. The general advice is a no, I would advise the same to someone at Notre Dame (they have the same program)

 

Hi SupremeLeader, check out these threads:

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If you are getting a CFA, do you really need a masters or MBA? (BTW I'm just reiterating things that I've read on this board... I'm one of the blind leading the blind). CFA's (from what I've read) have networking events and even CFA clubs in major cities. This would probably be just as good (if not better) for ER networking opportunities over MBA/Grad school.

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?
 

Have you been applying directly to ER positions? I have seen plenty of recruiters looking for qualified accountants for ER/M&A/CF positions.

Go to www.efinancialcareers.co.uk and type ACA in the search bar. With Cambridge + chartered accountant you should be getting interviews. This is a US site so people will tell you you can't break into finance from accounting, but if your in London it's absolutely false.

 

THanks for the input guys, really appreciate it!!

Actually, I am now based in Hong Kong (the weather is crazy here :), working towards my CPA (just the final papers to be completed). I am not sure how much of a difference does it make when comparing the investment industry in US, London and Hong Kong?

I am definitely working towards my CFA at the same time, just that I couldnt manage the time to get my level 2 done as work + CPA takes up most of my time already...

 

I would recommend waiting and going the MBA route down the line and skipping the MSF. Most MSF programs are built for recent college graduates and do not require a large amount of prior work experience. MSFs are also often tailored to career starters/boosters vs. MBAs which are often career changers. It sounds like you have a good job now and a resume that depending on other factors could warrant a top-20 MBA acceptance. This would be your meal ticket into the Corp Fin job you are looking for. Just my two cents, good luck with the decision.

 

After going through the process and speaking with a ton of admissions people and doing interviews, they really do like recent grads. I graduated in 2011 and I was afraid I would be considered a year too old. However, I know Princeton and Illinois programs are geared towards individuals with more work experience as opposed to recent college grads.

So with that said, going that MBA route may be more fitting to you at this point, but then again, I am no expert in this.

 

I have a pretty similar situation. I will be graduating soon. I am an international student. I want to come to US for higher studies and i want to build a career there. Now, I can try for the MSF in 2014 ( as i have no job experience) and then give a try to build up my career. Or, I can wait and gather some job experience, after which i can apply for an MBA and try to build up my career in US from there after.. What will be the optimal decision for me ?? Please help :(

P.S. I am a finance major and want to stay in my subject in my joblife also. But i havent chosen any particular finance track yet e.g. corporate finance or investment banking etc.

 

I don't really see anything competing with the MBA as the article alleges, and really I don't think the two should be compared. They are marketed to different sets of consumer (e.g. 0-2 work experience and 2-8 work experience people), and they are marketed as providing different skills (e.g. MSF technical knowledge, MBA some technical knowledge but mostly "management" training").

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
 

Thanks for posting this. Pretty dated article. Since it is GARP it is more geared towards the increase in MFE programs than the typical MSF programs that people on this site routinely inquire about.

I think this reflects a couple things.

1) Saturation of MBA's 2) Desire to keep wallet share of students without putting people in MBA programs without the necessary experience 3) Pure revenue generation desire from universities 4) Increasing complexity of finance 5) Student demand

Applications have leveled or dropped at a lot of non top MBA programs and schools are looking for a way to provide a graduate offering that is shorter, more focused and provides a better ROI for students.

 

Create a long-term plan for yourself but allow for some flexibility. Both degrees offer different opportunities and career trajectories. Keep in mind that there are many paths to success and either degree is not a ticket to success. You are only a sophmore and you should focus on doing what you can for summer internships. Perhaps, you should even consider doing very well and transferring to a "target" school of possible.

An MBA can be worth the time but most people will argue only if in a top 10 or top 20 or top 25 program. Again, this depends on where you are in your career when and if you decide to pursue a degree. In my opinion and MSF won't help too much for consulting.

 

I think the best option would be to transfer out to a target school. If you cant transfer (for whatever reason, it should be a good one) then I would network and try to break in that way. If both the above fails, I would consider a MSF/MiM unless you can get some type of job that can leverage you to a top MBA after working a few years. I think that a top MBA is more of a sure thing than a MSF/MiM.

 

Network, network, network. Consider transferring to a target school, too.

The safest way to double your money is to fold it over twice and put it in your pocket.
 

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  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

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From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

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