How to Act with Senior Employees?
Being a junior employee, how should one act with senior employees? I think there should be a balance: you have to lick their asses, but not to the point of losing respect from fellow co-workers and becoming the banks' bitch. How do/did you approach this?
Do good work. Get your good work recognized by the right people.
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/guide-to-office-politics-part-i
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Kissing is SO 2007.
Quality troll.
How to Talk to an MD? (Originally Posted: 01/20/2010)
I'm meeting with an MD of an investment bank pretty soon (he agreed to meet me after I sent an e-mail asking for advice). How on earth should I approach this? I want to be as honest with him as possible with my situation (my situation = jobless at the end of Senior year target and looking for advice on how to get a job/internship somewhere in finance). At the same time I don't want to come across as weak/needy/pathetic. I really respect this guy but how should I approach the situation to maximize results?
Let him steer the conversation, as he probably will.
Make sure you have a few talking points about why you're interested, what you have to offer, and why that firm prepared - but don't whip it out unless you are asked or if you have the conversation and you haven't brought up anything substantive about yourself.
I would try to keep it pretty easy going and be as personable and likable as possible. If you do that well, the MD may be willing to pull strings for you inside the firm. At the very least he should be able to provide some insight on what you can do, if you follow up via email or phone after the convo.
How long do these things usually last? Should I at any point ever interject my interesting in needing help on how to find a job or is that just off limits unless he brings it up?
Any other advice?
wear your sexiest outfit and look pretty. he will talk your ears off.
MDs are busy - assume he'll have 30 minutes for you MAX. And they don't always steer the conversation. Start off by telling him honestly (and briefly) about your difficult situation, and then ask him to tell you about how he got to where he is today. Don't let him go on forever either - if you want him to pull strings for you, ask for help before he suddenly looks at his watch, gets up and says he has to rush to his next meeting. Know what message you want to get across before you go and bring a resume+references with you in a presentation folder to give him when he asks - he'll be more inclined to push you through to HR if he doesn't need to download it via an email.
I got to superday at GS only because I cold-emailed an MD and asked to meet him at 8am for coffee for 20 minutes. He may have known that I wanted an interview, but he wouldn't have mentioned it if I didn't tell him about my situation, found a way to relate to him in my conversation and asked him to fit me into the interview process. He wasn't the friendliest guy in the world, but he was willing to help me because I tried to be honest, direct and likeable. Sometimes no matter what you do, you just won't get through, so don't blame yourself if nothing materializes from it. Good luck!
Advice on how to chat with MD/senior folks (Originally Posted: 03/17/2016)
So I have been networking for a while and I am scheduled to have a coffee chat with a MD at a MM tomorrow afternoon. Although I would say I have experience talking to professionals in the industry (mostly VPs and Directors) so I am usually able to come across as well-spoken and leave a "good impression". But I didn't have too much experience dealing with MDs and senior folks before. Considering there is a lot on stake and me being so junior (I am still at school), I am a bit nervous at this point and don't really know how to prepare for tomorrow's chat to leave a "good impression" or what exactly should I say or ask? I usually start with common interests/background. Sometimes I get a bit nervous and speak very fast when talking to senior folks.
Any advice? Thanks!
Anyone?
Let them do most of the talking. Don't try to impress them with your "knowledge" because you probably don't know anything. Humility/passion for learning will set you apart from many. Ask about background, experience at different firms, if it's a small place ask about positives/negatives of that (same thing for big place), I've usually talked about family if it's a chill family guy, how the firm is impacted by current market conditions. Broad questions to get them talking. Be a good listener and try to learn something.
@Jo25, thanks! Do you think I should bring a notebook with me or no? Would that seem a bit wired?
I would say no notebook. Could do a small pad that fits in jacket pocket that you could take out in the unlikely event that the discussion leads to you needing to write something down. Make sure to mention how you understand he must be busy and appreciate him taking the time to talk. Along with what was said before, I used to make sure I drew on senior people's experience. He's obviously been in IBD for a long time now and learned a lot, so ask about how he would have done things at your age knowing what he now knows. Ask about what makes his best junior people the best. Could go into more detail but a lot of this depends on your relationship to him, what your goals of the conversation are, how you got in touch with him (talk to others at the firm first or directly)
Thanks, I am trying to get a summer internship there or at least, leave a good impression so that I could come back for full time recruiting this fall if no summer positions. I guess I will add a few questions about their recruiting process and how can I best position myself for their firm.
Don't bother with the "best position myself for your firm" crap. JoeyJ has it right, genuinely try to learn something. Sitting down with an MD is a chance to suckle at the teat of knowledge, and if you're genuinely trying to do so, they'll see it and appreciate it.
Meeting with Unknown Senior Level Person (Originally Posted: 09/30/2013)
I am meeting with an Executive Director at a BB tomorrow evening for a late lunch. He is an alumni of my University, however, I cannot find any info on this man. I know he is an Executive Director, but I have no idea where that position lies in the hierarchy. If anybody has any info on that, that would be appreciated.
There is not any information online about him, so I have no clue what group he works in. Usually I like to know this information so I can ask some specific questions, but do you guys think this matters for senior level guys? I feel like the conversations with them may be more conversational than anything, rather than with an analyst/associate. Do you think I will have an issue not knowing his specific background before the meet? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Best thing that can happen - he's in a FO position and you've just made a great connection. Worst thing is that he's not and you'll still have met someone who's willing to help a younger kid out and can possibly refer you to other connections. You win both ways.
First off, I am guessing the person you are meeting with is from Morgan Stanley. Out of the bulge bracket banks, I believe they are the only ones that use Executive Director (vs. Director, or Managing Director to mean the level below the top). That would put this person one level short of Managing Direct, which is essentially the top rank (until you hit Vice Chairman / Group Head / Firm Management status, which is way up)
Secondly, ideally you would like to know what group he is in so you have a point from which to start the conversation, but if you do not know you will be fine. Just be straightforward and say "I tried to look up what group you are in but sorry I could not find out, what group are you in?" and then just use that as a jumping off point. In reality, as long as you act personable, don't put your foot in your mouth and don't ask stupid questions (this includes anything about finance theory) then it should likely be a positive experience. It is certainly not true that any press is good press in those situations, but if you do not do anything to give a negative impression, then an alumni from your school who is meeting you for lunch will probably make sure you at least get a first round interview.
Thanks for the tips, I dont think it will be a problem, but this guy does a really good job at ensuring there is not any info on him out there. Also, it is not MS, but good guess.
JPM also uses Exec Dir.
going out with senior guys as a (female) intern (Originally Posted: 04/21/2010)
So if senior banker(s) in Sales Trading wants to take you out pretty late to their events with clients as a female intern should you go? I'm not talking about dinners and networking events, more like bachelor type events and maybe gentlemen clubs. Would they feel insulted if I don't go?
ROFL. If you want to get ahead, of course go. Just make sure you know what you're getting into going to a strip club with traders.
Yes.
You'll win some points for being cool enough to a strip club with them. But they won't be insulted if you don't.
Also, if you were the only intern invited (no other male interns or whatnot). Is this kind of weird or just normal to take females to these types of events?
Am I really missing something here? Why is there even a question about the appropriateness of this event?
Wait, there are other interns, also male ones, and they didnt get invited? Just you?
pmed u
just go out with them. it's not going to be a full bachelor party, just get drinks, have fun, and excuse yourself if they decide to go to a strip club. sounds like they want to party hard, so i'd be careful if i was you and order something light and don't go crazy with shots. going out iwth coworkers and sharing laughs is a great way to develop a very strong relationships. just make sure that they don't have any reason to gossip about your bad behavior the following day.
I agree with the above. You will definitely get 'cool' points for going but will not be looked upon unfavorably if you do not go.
Very weird that they did not ask other male interns. unless you are working closely with a few particular senior guys and their clients.
^ great, thanks for the above input
This in unbelievable. Are you a troll, or just very attractive and not too bright? The senior guys are taking YOU (a female) to a strip club, while not asking the other interns (who are males)? There are two logical explanations I can think of for this: 1) ALL the male interns must be socially akward -- which I highly doubt, or 2) bluntly put, they want to get in you
Keep wearing the short skirts and tight white blouses over black bras, and you'll make it to the top (which I've seen happen). Good luck.
I give you points just for even thinking of going!!
Just go. It's not like they're going to gang rape your or anything.
You gonna get raped tenderly...
yeah i dont see a big deal. go if you deem going to a strip club acceptable and appropriate, if not then dont. just know they are either bring you for one of two reasons. 1. want to get with you (highly probable and since they are traders they even might have a betting pool), or 2. you have been working with these individuals a lot and they are not close with other interns more so and have ALSO been working to a degree on stuff with this client.
but seriously how can you not see whats happening if its 1 or 2...your there and we are not....you seriously need some common sense if you didnt already know these things
lol, go if they are hot
I would totally go. I'm not into women, but I'm sure I'd find this amusing in some way.
how about asking the seniors whether they would like to invite other interns as well? it's pretty normal interns want to network with seniors.
btw, you posted this last month. so did you joined them or not?
she has disappeared - perhaps we should be concerned...
leave it to citi to take borderline underage kids to strip clubs ...
and given how many posts she has written about how to behave/what to wear/whether to go out with male colleagues in s&t... and still seem to be coming back (alive and well and posting), I wouldn't be too concerned.
i think the girl has more common sense (or at least self defense abilities) in real life than she appears through her posts.
i can be wrong.
nm some nub bumped it :(
Catching up with Senior Banker (Originally Posted: 05/04/2016)
Hi Monkeys. I will be catching up with a senior banker soon, before I start full-time. Group placement is soon and this person is in my top choice group. We have not spoken since my superday...after I sent a thank you note (several months back). I want to make a good impression and communicate my interest, but not 'try too hard' or be too aggressive.
Some things I am considering discussing:
-small talk // how have you been // any big changes in your life -research a recent deal in that group and ask thoughtful questions
-having a hard time coming up with other topics, because everything industry-related seems too "try hard"
Do you guys have any suggestions of a good direction or angle from which to approach this meeting? Really appreciate it, thanks!
Take a deep breadth and just have a conversation. Obviously, don't talk about that wild party you went to last weekend or this one chick you're sleeping with on the side, but other than that, just have a normal conversation. Ask him how he's been, maybe ask him about college basketball (if his teem did well in March), ask how he's been, ask about a recent transactions but don't try too hard, etc.
Wouldn't it seem as though I came into the chat unprepared if I just had a normal conversation?
Meeting with Senior Level Alum at BB (Originally Posted: 07/26/2016)
Was wondering if you guys had any advice for how to make this most of this meeting. I've had a chat with this alum over the phone before and it went pretty well. So much so that when I followed up last week - months later - he invited me to come into his office for a chat (Notorious on campus for not even responding to emails, one of the only alums at this BB's IB division). He's pretty senior in the hierarchy, so I'm wondering what type of questions I should be asking and what I should expect to be prepared with. I'm currently finishing up an internship at an NYC boutique and he's aware of this for context.
Thanks!
Bump, also interested
Meeting with senior PE guy - Advice? (Originally Posted: 07/02/2013)
I just graduated college and have an investment banking job at a good firm. Through the recruitment process, I received a great deal of help from a senior guy (think MD/Partner) at one of the top PE funds. He's an alum of my school. I had the chance to network with him about a year and a half ago and he ended up helping me get some interviews for IB, gave me advice on which offer to take, gave positive recommendations to the firms at which I was interviewing, etc. Awesome guy.
I've met him in person once, talked on the phone maybe twice and exchanged a decent amount of emails. He's really nice and always goes out of his way to be super helpful. I wanted to stay in touch so I'm meeting him for lunch this week. I would be ecstatic to work at his company after 2 years in banking but that process is a while from now since I'm just starting.
How should I approach this meeting? What should I know before I go so that I'm super prepared? Information about the firm? Current trends in PE? I just really wanna impress him so I can hopefully get an interview.
I don't think it would make sense to tactfully ask him about getting an interview at his fund at this point since that would probably be a few months from now. What kind of questions should I ask then?
Also, as someone at the MD/Partner level, does he have the ability to get me an interview at his firm if he really wants to or is it mainly done through headhunters?
Advice from current people in PE would be really helpful.
Thanks!
Most processes are organized by headhunters, but without-a-doubt a Partner has the ability to give someone an interview if he wants. Come prepared with some thoughtful questions about the firm / some recent deals he has worked on / be generally knowledgeable and make sure you express interest in the firm. The PE recruiting process starts pretty abruptly and without much warning, FYI.
How to connect with Senior Bankers in Interviews? (Originally Posted: 04/09/2014)
Hi Guys,
I have a final round with a BB in the middle east coming up - telephone interviews with 2 VPs and 2 Directors. I'm just wondering what kind of questions I can expect, if anyone has any advice in particular in how to impress senior professionals which I expect is largely fit and therefore subjective..
I really need to convert this - so would appreciate any tips!
What division did you apply for?
IBD
bump
Summer intern at EB - lunch with two senior-level bankers (Originally Posted: 03/27/2016)
Hi WSO. I'm a non-target interning at a EB (Moelis/Evercore/Lazard) this summer in NYC. I'll be visiting friends in the city this week. I kept in touch with some people from my superday, and 2 senior-level (Associate/VP/MD) bankers offered to have lunch and catch up, so I'm scheduled to have lunch (at a pretty nice/upscale restaurant!) with both of them while I'm in the city. Does anyone have any advice on how I should approach this lunch? It's a different setting from networking for a job, so I'm wondering if there are any differences in etiquette, what to wear, who pays, and stuff like that. Is talking about group placement and/or banking in general "taboo" for this kind of lunch? Advice from the career center at my non-target is quite spotty and seems a bit awkward - as some of you might imagine - and I'd really prefer not to screw this opportunity up ahead of my SA stint. English is not my first language and this is my first time on the site, so I apologize for any mishaps with my grammar/usage, and if I have posted in the wrong section. Thanks in advance!
If it were me, I would wear a button down, slacks, and a blazer. Since they offered to take you out, thank them for the meal but no need to offer to pay since they are much more senior. Just don't say anything stupid and you should be fine.
So when you meet, just make small talk about your trip, school, etc. I'm assuming you aren't 21, so when they ask if you'd like to order a drink, just ask for water (do not pull out your fake ID, you will probably not get a return offer even before you start). Then before you get your meal talk about their work, current deals, what the market conditions have been like this year. Talk about your own experiences and what you hope to learn. During eating time, pivot the conversation towards casual talk. Talk about school, life, what activities you are involved in and hobbies. Then when lunch is over, they will pay. You walk out, shake their hand, and tell them you will keep in touch and look forward to working with them for the summer. That is it.
Interviewing with Senior People (Originally Posted: 02/10/2008)
When interviewing with more senior people at a firm (e.g. Directors, MD's), are they usually looking for different things than an analyst, associate, or VP does?
Also, do interviews with these higher level individuals tend to be less technical and more fit/behavioral?
from my experience it has been mostly fit. They also try to judge whether you are hard working and the have potential to absorb knowledge like a sponge.
Seniors tend to ask fit questions and give you advice..
analysts and associates are tough and technical.. they sort of want to let you know that they are at where they are because they know more and they are better than you.
Ling~
Call with senior professional at PE shop (Originally Posted: 09/01/2010)
I've been in touch on and off with a director at a PE shop. He asked me to follow up with him later in the summer, on whether they're hiring, so I did. He responds back asking me to call him next week (and didn't specify a particular day or time).
What should I make of this? Is it more of a casual call or can it potentially become an on-the-spot interview?
Thanks,
a
The social intelligence of you people makes me wonder...
The guy said call him later in the summer as to "whether they're hiring." So presumably you have the office number or his direct cell phone. So, get your ass on the phone and say, "Hi I'm so and so, and we exchanged a few e-mails about 2 months ago. You asked me to call later in the summer as to whether you're hiring and I was wondering if anything has opened up".
The casualness of the call depends on what his response is to your opening statement.
Did you even read the OP's question? He wants to know what the likelihood of getting drilled with technicals would be...not how to call and what to say.
At any rate, OP...always be ready to answer any question. You just never know when you will have an "on the spot" opportunity to impress someone, or embarrass yourself...and with the market the way it stands right now, you can't afford to miss out on a single opportunity.
I had a situation where I didn't have any interviews scheduled in the near future, so I hadn't really brushed up on my technicals in a while. One day, I am sleeping on my couch and get a random phone call...didn't recognize the number so I didn't answer and I let it go to voice mail so I could screen the call and see what was going on. Well, I waited several minutes and never got a VM notification so I assumed they didn't leave a message, but figured I would call it back (thinking it could have been my dad).
Of course, the VM notification appeared on my phone right after the original caller answered and said they were so-and-so with xyz bank and that I was on the line with blah, blew, blee (like 3 or 4 other people) and they wanted to know if I could answer some questions. I thought about making up an excuse but felt it would (1) be a bit unprofessional and (2) be difficult to lie my way out of the phone call considering I was obviously capable of calling them back. I said sure, I had time and they started drilling me with questions. Not only was I unprepared, it was pretty nasty outside and my phone was cutting in and out, so I am tap dancing around some of their questions trying to figure out what answers they are looking for all the while my phone is going in and out of service and they are yelling "Can you hear me now"...so I am doing my best to get the answers out in a very brief manner and didn't go into any detail about anything. So between some of the questions that I couldn't really answer and the questions that I did answer, but rather briefly, I probably looked like a complete idiot.
It was a mess. Obviously the weather/cell phone reception situation was NOT helping me out by any stretch of the imagination but I ultimately was unprepared, not to mention I was groggy because I just woke up but I wasn't going to request that we set up a different time because I just got up from my nap, lol.
Cliff notes: Be prepared for a full fledged interview when you call. Good luck.
Regards
I had something similar happen where I had a call with a first time call with a principal and it became an impromptu interview.
Agree with CPH. Got blindsided by what I thought was going to be a casual chat that turned into a technical interview. Learned my lesson the hard way. One of the dumbest I've every felt. Don't do that.
not sure why you resurrected this thread but i recently had the same exp with a HF
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