Bringing a basic model to an interview?

Would your opinion change if I had a mentor in the industry take a look at it prior to bringing it up? I have no qualms with accepting that its a bad idea if that is what majority feel, I am just trying to find out the sources of everyones disdain for the idea.

Your second point is what I was alluding to, I thought being able to elaborate on my thought process on how I built it would be the valuable part.

This is a fair response, thank you. I can see what you are saying, while to myself it seems like a smart and intuitive idea I can see why there may be some nuances involved with the idea that I was not aware of - hence why I made this thread. Would it be equally as detrimental to mention the fact I made a mock model on my resume under the par where I state that I took the course?

I've wondered about this same issue. I searched old threads and even PMed a few people about it. And yet I still don't feel comfortable giving you a definitive answer, except to be very cautious. Different certified users here have given me completely contradictory opinions on this.

From my own inquiries about this issue, I think the answer will depend on some things. Your previous finance experience? FT or SA? Lateral? BB, large MM or a small MM or boutique with no training program? Will they expect you to hit the ground running?

Lots of users will shit on the idea, which I personally think is partly b/c they immediately assume it's a "standard" interview for someone that will come straight out of undergrad into a MM or BB's training program, in which case "proving" your modeling skills may be pointless, and in fact just make you look like a douchebag if you whip out a model in the interview.

Whatever their reasons, more have told me no than yes, just fyi.

Maybe have it available but don't bring it up unless they ask specifically about modeling?

I think since you have not majored in finance, it might be more readily accepted and not as critically looked at by interviewers.

Fair enough. Just wanted to share my experience and 2 cents. Also, at least when I was applying out of ugrad, I listed coursework I had taken in finance on my resume. Anyone can list courses they've taken, so I brought the extra materials as "proof" so to speak.

If they didn't ask for it I wouldn't. Bring it up in the interview and you can discuss all the assumptions you made and demonstrate your thorough understanding of how you built the model. I'm assuming it's a typical DCF model so you can discuss all of that during the interview and believe me they will be interested and ask you plenty of questions on it. I wouldn't bring the actual model though, but that's just me. It would annoy me if every candidate brought a DCF to the interview and we didn't ask for it. That being said, if you have modeling experience find a place for it on your resume and make a point to discuss it.

JaLe2286:

I've asked a couple of the guys on the forum this question, but wanted to hear other people's opinion.

A mentor suggested bringing a completed 3 statement model I have built to an Investment Banking Analyst interview. Good idea or bad idea? Will they tear it up in front of me, or will they be impressed? I didn't major in finance undergrad and am nervous.

1.) Understand that this is one part of your overall value proposition so make sure the three statements compliment your story. If you are framing yourself as an analytical guy who can hit the ground running, the three statements may be compelling.

2.) This is a high-risk - high-reward strategy in that you better be damn sure the three statements are perfect. You are bringing scrutiny and attention to something unrequired so you should ensure your product is flawless. Literally perfect in every way - columns (years) in different pages all align, formatting is consistent, formulas (if visible) are efficient...

3.) Be smooth about it. Make sure your delivery of the statements is fluid and easy-going. Don't awkwardly shove in into your interviewer at an inappropriate time. Perfect scenario for you is if the interviewer asks you, "Are you analytical? Do you have any modeling experience" and you can respond both verbally and give your "example."

4.) Have a flexible / go-anywhere strategy. Be prepared to show your spreadsheet but also be flexible enough that you resist bringing them out if there are no appropriate moments. Perhaps only bring out one page to answer a technical question? Just make sure you are not dead-set and box yourself in - as that will only lead to awkward moments.

5.) Do a practice interview with a friend in finance (without telling him/her about your three statements beforehand). During your practice, smoothly bring out your three statements at some point and see what your friend says. Practice your delivery but also get your friend to give you his/her honest opinion on the effect.

I wouldn't bring it.

1) Makes you look like a complete nerd

2) What does a print out that you could be from TTS or Vault tell me about someone's modeling skills. Even if I trust you that it's your work, I'm not going to spend 20 minutes checking it and how I do I know the whole thing isn't hard coded.

3) If you can model, it should be on your resume. Which is the only thing you should bring to your interview

JaLe2286,

It was unclear from your original post that you were making a lateral move. Yes, I agree with the other posters that it might be iffy for that for many of the reasons they outlined.

Thanks for the advice. What do you think about bringing in a slide deck on the industry I am interviewing for (Technology)? Or should I demonstrate my knowledge of the industry landscape verbally in my interview, and not bring in anything?

Again - part of the reason I did this and why the strategy has worked for me was because a) it compensated for me being a history major when I was interviewing from ugrad and b) it demonstrated that I had prepared for the interview and anticipated industry questions when i was interviewing for buyside. As you are doing a lateral move, it's tough to drill down on a more concrete value-add from bringing along a deck/model - ie: they're going to expect you to know how to model as others have pointed out. Up to you in the end.

did you do any modeling in your banking internship?

I think it would be awkward. I've interviewed lots of analysts, and I can't even begin to think of what I'd do if you said "Here, I brought you a model!" At best, you're going to get me to check it during the interview, which will eat up precious time you could have spent making your case to me. And it will prove nothing. I don't know if you got the model from someone else, how long it took you to put it together, whether it correctly reflects the underlying data, etc. Again, at best, I would ask you questions about it that I probably would have asked you even if you hadn't brought anything for me to look at to begin with.

Also, it probably will have something or another I could nitpick. Why risk showing something that will almost inevitably be wrong in some way?

A better strategy would be to have a model ready to send post-interview. I think it would only conceivably matter if your candidacy is really teetering on the line and the powers that be question your interest in the firm or your technical ability. I've done this as a sort of Hail Mary maneuver. It didn't work, but it got me a very long conciliatory letter from the head of the group applauding me for my audacity and ambition.

jd-to-ib:

I think it would be awkward. I've interviewed lots of analysts, and I can't even begin to think of what I'd do if you said "Here, I brought you a model!" At best, you're going to get me to check it during the interview, which will eat up precious time you could have spent making your case to me. And it will prove nothing. I don't know if you got the model from someone else, how long it took you to put it together, whether it correctly reflects the underlying data, etc. Again, at best, I would ask you questions about it that I probably would have asked you even if you hadn't brought anything for me to look at to begin with.

Also, it probably will have something or another I could nitpick. Why risk showing something that will almost inevitably be wrong in some way?

A better strategy would be to have a model ready to send post-interview. I think it would only conceivably matter if your candidacy is really teetering on the line and the powers that be question your interest in the firm or your technical ability. I've done this as a sort of Hail Mary maneuver. It didn't work, but it got me a very long conciliatory letter from the head of the group applauding me for my audacity and ambition.

Thanks. I'm just worried about whether my background is technical enough for the position, even though it is a First Year Analyst spot, and how I can highlight that I know how to build a DCF and 3 statement model, even though I didn't apply it to any deals or pitches I worked on (in tech, we didn't do DCF). I guess this will show in my familiarity with the technical questions they ask me?

^^^ Good point. Never oversell. Better to pleasantly surprise than to disappoint.

Well, the answer is a qualified yes. Most of the time, I think your interviewers will be far more interested in whether you can think through basic financial accounting and valuation concepts than what you "know." They can tell whether you are citing things from the Vault guide, or if you actually understand what you're saying. I'm much more impressed when a candidate isn't familiar with a question but shows me he can mentally grapple with the concepts at hand.

If you really want to make a statement (ha ha, no pun in intended), take a modeling course and put it on your resume.

don't want to hijack the thread, but what are typical BB mop up recruiting standards? What stage is a phone interview with a HR campus recruiter?

THanks

Couple of tips:

1) Don't bring in the model, but be prepared to talk about it. 2) Make sure you are 110% comfortable in talking about your calculations and, most importantly, your assumptions.

1) Build a three statement model (income/balance/cash) 2) Create a 5 year DCF 3) LBO with credit analysis

Depending on how intense you want to be i think you would impress with all three but prob only need 1 & 2

is this a lateral role?

Tough job market out there. I would do as much as you reasonably have time to. Three statements, DCF, Comps, Precedent Transaction, LBO worked backwards for a floor price. Also if possible pick an unknown company. Would surely be more difficult but worthwhile than making a model of AAPL. Even better pick a company that could benefit from the outcome of the election. Healthcare with Obama or Coal with Romney.

if this isnt a lateral than thats pretty crazy expecting kids to come out of undergrad with a full skill set

It's lateral, but yeah I agree if this was for a non-lateral, that would be crazy. Okay, so thank you all for your responses.

Bateman707 -- what do you mean by "worked backwards for a floor price"?

vtech243 -- he said to either bring a merger or LBO, so I can't just have a 3-statement and a DCF; I would need to include a LBO or merger? What do you think?

Thanks!

Did they ask you to bring a bottle as well?

Bring a runway model. 95% chance you get asked to leave for being an ass, but 5% chance you get a huge bump.

Do you know where I can get a tutorial to do a backwards LBO? I know how to comprehensively do a complex LBO, and get the IRR at the end; but never done a backwards LBO before to get to the equity value. Please advise if you can. Appreciate all your help -- thanks.

just use goal seek to set the IRR at 25% while changing the variable of initial sponsor equity

By course, do you mean a physical classroom or CD? Btw, how would you rate it? Just curious b/c I'd like to take one myself

As for the interview, I would at least try out some models on your own but if doesn't work out well, just talk about the ones you learned in the course. It, at the very least, shows you've completed one..more than most entry levels can say, including myself

I would not show the model to the employer as risks are greater than rewards. What if something is slightly off? What if he/she does not like formatting?

Thanks for the input.

I took Breaking into Wall Street, an online course. I recommend it. That coupled with a couple of books on valuation has definitely increased my competency.

I could be wrong, but I don't think any interviewer is going to want to go through a model on paper. I would either offer to send it when you send your follow-up e-mail or just give him/her a USB stick with it on there. Let them look at it on their own time, but you could mention during the interview a few key highlights of the model.

Just my opinion, but I think this is way too tryhard-like. I'm sure the topic of your modeling skills will come up in conversion, which is where you can try to impress. Your modeling skills likely aren't going to be the major factor in whether or not you get a job. Also if you did bring a model output page, the interviewer might try to dig deep into your assumptions and rip you apart, so I would know everything cold should you do this.