Trading to IB? Any transferable skills at all?

.

So you don't have a 4 year degree AND you're 33? That's tough. Dunno why you'd want to switch, either. If you came in as an associate, ok, but as an analyst? That's starting your career over, competing against 22 year olds with much more energy and a greater willingness to take all sorts of shit from 25 year old associates.

Play up the analyst position

What did you trade? Delta-one? Vol? Long/short fundamental strategies? It depends on your background, I think. If you did fundamental equity trading or maybe delta one stuff you might make a good case for an ECM role in banking

I suggest looking into strategist type roles within capital markets

Same case, been trying for a while now: impossible. Literally impossible. There seem to be a mutual hatred / despising that makes this kind of career move close to impossible. The only thing that might alleviate your case in a banker's eyes would be an MBA.

DCM/ECM, though, could work. But it's only because they usually are considered more capital markets than IB.

Equity strategies / ECM would be your best bet.

I appreciate all of your comments, it seems an ECM (Equity Capital Management) role would be the best bet. Do any of you work or have worked as an ECM and if you can share your experience? Thanks

short answer is no. u have no experience to get associate jobs and no one wants a 33 year old 1st year analyst.

You work at one of the market makers? I know what you mean... spreads are getting tighter while volumes are dropping. From what I've seen (used to work at one myself), some of the guys go into risk roles at banks, or move to inter-dealer brokers (that's what all the laid-off deriv prop traders from the French banks are doing where I am). Otherwise, you can move to Asia... in Hong Kong the spreads on the listed options are still large relative to the US. I've been trying to make the jump at an earlier stage than you but its still very tough.

marcellus_wallace:

Seeing as how investment banking analysts have no real skills. I do not think it will be a problem.

lol

MBA.

I thought Illini was pretty clear, but to clarify: get your MBA. And not from the University of Phoenix.

Are you still in undergrad? If you're still young (e.g. undergrad or analyst) you do NOT need an MBA to go from trading to IBD.

depends on where you go to school, how you network, etc. work hard at the job you have, hopefully get an offer, and then apply to IBD (or would it be IB... I don't want another lecture post) in the fall and if you don't get a gig then at least you got a back up plan (prop firm to mba to ibd)

talk about your Excel skills, maybe take one of these online courses and put it on your resume so it seems like your interested in valuation and banking

...convey that you tried trading and it wasn't the right fit for you, banking is more of what your looking for

Apply for IBD in the fall and have a good explanation for your lack of an IBD internship.

I would also be interested in the 'online course' you speak of.

He's referring to the IB modeling courses, namely, Breaking Into Wall Street, Wall Street Prep, etc...

This doesn't directly answer what you're asking, but I know a guy who was an analyst and then associate at Goldman S&T. He got his MBA at a top program and joined a PE shop.

and thinking about maybe energy banking

Do you trade energy or do you trade energy sector equities?

less money more bullshit more hours less glory.

iambateman, besides the "bullshit", the rest is definitely not allways true.

trade energy

How many years have you been a trader? Are you in the USA or Europe? Are you at a BB? Tried networking/trying to lateral? How educated are you? (ie have you already completed a Masters - if not - you could complete a Masters and go for IBD recruitment again). Recruitment agencies are also an option.

We need more info bro.

Yes. I just did this. Granted my role was more analytical to begin with. Should be familiar with basic accounting and financial modeling. But don't get more wrong. It's no walk in the park. You are at an inherent disadvantage.

I've been trading at a small company in the USA 3 years right out of undergrad, make around 300k now. Willing to take a 50% or so cut to move over (I believe this is what analysts make now)

I know I could do a MFin or similar but problem is I want to go to B school a couple years from now so if I do 1 year masters + 2 years analyst I'm already 29 which is kinda too old

My understanding is BB don't even look at you if you aren't in undergrad, so I'm targeting small banks. Just don't know how to go about networking because simply applying online is probably instant ding

Lol...why do you want to switch? it's only a 50% pay discount if you end up at a strong firm with a good bonus year. If you end up at a boutique you can expect around a 60-70% discount. If you think there is no LT potential at your current position, then sure. But if you're going to apply to bschool, just rake in the money now and try when you graduate.

What kind of trader are you?

There are multiple reasons why I want the change, and I don't want to get too deep into it. Basically, I don't want to do what I do anymore (there is no LT potential as you put it), and I want "traditional" finance skills. I don't want to go into any other kind of trading either.

If I go to B school now, can I get in as an Associate? I mean I understand accountants or consultants easily make the transition but I have 0 applicable experience. I do have the knowledge though (can answer the technicals)

Full-time MSF or MBA is your only option. At your age, you should aim for FT MBA instead of MSF because you can get in at the Associate level at least and firms would be reluctant to hire you as an Analyst even if you did the MSF because you're too old

Have you considered becoming a desk analyst aka dest strategist at a high yield / distressed trading desk? This will also take you to fundamental equity/ credit shops and you just might be able to lateral from your current role.

I have thought about that option. I think of it as a sort of Plan C. My main concerns were threefold:

i. That, like the rest of the trading floor, the desk would be overly concerned on short term fluctuations rather than fundamentals ii. That the exit opps. into fundamental equity/credit, while present were not as good as in banking iii. And that they would mostly be focused on the credit side whereas my ultimate preference lies on the equity side of things

I have thought about that option. I think of it as a sort of Plan C. My main concerns were threefold:

i. That, like the rest of the trading floor, the desk would be overly concerned on short term fluctuations rather than fundamentals ii. That the exit opps. into fundamental equity/credit, while present were not as good as in banking iii. And that they would mostly be focused on the credit side whereas my ultimate preference lies on the equity side of things

Your third is the most reasonable concern. High yield analytics are not inherently concerned with short term view. It can vary from firm to firm, but most of the time they're worried about taking position for proprietary interest of the desk with a medium to long-term horizon. There are brilliant exit opportunities from the premier desks. DLJ, which is now at CS, has long been considered the market leader in HY.

I really appreciate the insight into another option that I probably haven't given quite enough thought to but, getting back to my original question, do any of you know anything about shifting from a FT job in London to a new Analyst job in NY?

Given that I need to move from LDN to NY and a lateral move within the firm would likely be limited to my current office, I still think I need to be getting back and applying to other firms so that I can make the shift in both location and area at the same time. Any advice on that process?

Hi, It's very nice that,you are looking for moving to new york,if your C.V is solid and your marks are good,then you could move anywhere very easily.And you realised that your best shot is in investment banking rather than trading.So,why are you waiting for? Go Ahead and all the best.It is the best option.

moving to canada

Anyone with any thoughts into this? My problem still stands. One key facet of the problem right now.... I need to be in NY for personal reasons, how can I get time to interview off work when I have just joined a team here in LDN...?

Sickies, ask for a holiday after 2 weeks spread over october/nov. randomly?

Thanks in advance

" The way I see investment banking is that it's something like joining the army - you get shit on for a few years by the people above you, you don't have a proper life, but you emerge out of the whole thing as a superior, more disciplined being with skills few people have."

No.

"You get shit on for a few years by the people above you, you do't have a proper life."

True, some managers are great, but the client demands mean they have to demand really tight deadlines. Sounds OK in theory but would you like to go out to dinner with your girlfriend / boyfriend on a Friday night, have a glass or two of wine, and then get an email dragging you back into the office? Do you want to miss your best friend's wedding because you get staffed? Can you deal with that for 2-3 years and likely even more? Because many of the exit opps that people covet here are marginally better, but aren't all that different.

"You emerge out the whole thing as a superior, more disciplined being with skills few people have."

Superior? If anything, banking culture often encourages you to be more aggressive, less patient and more frivolous. Sure, that's good if you want that, but most people in the world do not respect those qualities. Yes, you get skills, but as a junior analyst, a huge part of your day is spent editing powerpoints using firm specific software, doing research and performing errands. Not so transferrable.

I enjoy many aspects of my job, but by no means is it perfect. My team has a fantastic culture, but the inherent fact that it's investment banking means that most of us sometimes struggle a lot.

There are many reasons to do investment banking. Honestly, I'm not a fan of the exit opps line, because so many are similar to banking. Best of luck, but examine why you want to follow this path.

I hate this question and kind of hope no one hires you... But I think at JP if you do good work they let you switch halfway through the summer to a different FO group. I would say try to get into DCM (there are DCM groups that recruit out of S&T) or Credit trading (financial statement analysis and stuff is more relevant than macro stuff).

If you're a sophomore and couldn't get IBD then whatever but if you're a junior and someone gave you an offer with the expectation that you may come back to trade full time it's disappointing that you're asking how to leave before you even start. Trading and banking are nothing alike so you're taking up space in a really coveted program for basically no reason other than to further your own self interests.

Really interesting to be in S&T when you want banking, two totally different jobs. With that said, probably DCM ideally or if not, any sort of credit trading. Stay away from sales.

I think that would be a unique path. I'm not sure that anyone goes into trading to get recruited into IB. I assume that name brand is just as important when applying to B school. I couldn't imagine the math tests involved in trying to get into a top shop.