MBB Lateral?
How common is lateral entry into McK at the Engagement Manager or Associate Principal level? Generally, what do successful candidates possess in their backgrounds in terms of work experience (what level of responsibility at what firms)?
Also, what is the situation like at BCG and Bain?
Thanks in advance!
very uncommon to lateral to the engagement manager role
even more uncommon for associate principal
but for an engagement manager you would probably already be a senior manager at corporate for 5~8 years
Thanks for the response 7S.
Do you think being a Partner at, say, Deloitte Consulting (Strategy, not IT) give you a decent chance at getting hired as Associate Principal? Would you be considered "over qualified" for Engagement Manager, or maybe considered too set in your ways?
I should add, suppose I am on the partner track at Deloitte Consulting, and I am set on trying to get into MBB, at what point in my career advancement at Deloitte should I try to lateral to MBB? And what position should I be going for? (i.e. how much of a 'demotion' should I aim for to make the switch?
Do you think Senior Consultant (Deloitte) --> Associate (McK) is Possible? Or are you thinking more along the lines of Manager or Senior Manager (Deloitte) --> Associate (McK) ?
So is this the old firm you're hopping from or the new firm you just joined? At any rate, if you're bent on getting into MBB, why not just stick out your firm for a year or two, get an MBA, and then go straight to MBB without pussyfooting around?
i've seen many deloitte partners who were once mck managers and associates...less so the other way around
so try switching as early as possible, it is probably the easiest to become an associate either after mba or just lateral
Thanks chron3k. I did consider the MBA option, but I was hoping there was a less expensive alternative. It is the new firm. I think I'll have a better chance getting into a top MBA from there.
7S, thanks again for the advice.
Also, if you were on the partner track at Deloitte, why not just stay? It sounds like a fairly lucrative position to me... as one partner I knew put it: "Only two things matter in consulting... how fast you get to partner, and how much work you sell once you're there."
My view on the subject is that if you're already getting fasttracked, why not just stick it out? Unless you're bent on the MBB name and the projects you'll be doing? (but let's face it, once you're a partner you're rarely executing anymore).
That's a good point chron3k. There's really no great reason, other than the fact that I'm a bit of a prestige whore. lol. I do really want the MBB name. I suppose another reason is that I would eventually like to have a shot at PE or hedge funds, and MBB has (way?) better exit opps.
That being said, I was told by the people who recruited me that I can expect a career advancement not much different than the following:
1st year Senior Consultant - 100K 2nd year Senior Consultant - 110K 3rd year Manager - 140K 4th year Manager - 155K 5th year Senior Manager - 180K 6th year Senior Manager - 200K 7th year Partner - 250K-300K
and then I can make up to 600K - 800K if I'm good.
Of course all this depends on me doing really well along the way, but for now, the signs are looking good because they made it very clear that they really want me on board. If this works out, being partner and having a shot at making that kind of money by 30 is pretty sweet in itself.
Anyway, if you guys know people at MBB or work there yourselves, do you mind outlining an analagous career advancement at MBB that I can expect, assuming by some miracle I get hired there? Also, what are the odds of making partner at a place like McKinsey (i.e. is it just the 90th percentile and above)?
It's called sales. You think they are telling other candidates they don't really want them on board?
If your heart is set on MBB, your best bet by far is to go to a top 15 business school in two years and apply from there. If your heart is set on MBB pre-MBA, I guess others can chime in as to feasibility.
If you are a top bucket performer at even a second-tier consulting firm, you have a realistic shot at even HSW in two years, at which point getting a job at MBB will be quite feasible. That (making top bucket) should be your one and only focus right now.
Sounds about right for base pay. You have to factor in bonus which could be 20-30 percent plus if you're doing well (which you should be at that rate of advancement.)
wait, so you started at 22 as a senior consultant? otherwise how would you be partner by 30?
also, is the compensation you listed already including bonus or is that just base pay?
Time timeline is very aggressive, especially SM -> Partner. Also don't count on them promising you to be a partner when you still in Year 1. Execution and selling are two very different things.
Hi peacerenity, I just turned 23 a few months ago, and I've been offered a Senior Consultant position (Haven't started yet). I am Associate Consultant at my current (soon to be old) firm and was poached by this new one.
abacab, thanks for the comment. When I first heard it, I thought so too. But after asking around, 7 years to partner from Senior Consultant isn't unheard of. Of course it isn't common either, so I'm not really counting on it. Even if it takes 10 years from now, its still not bad imo.
peacerenity, the compensation I listed is base pay. Although the bonus, I was told, is negligible until I move up in the company. For my first few years, I was told that I can expect around 10%.
To be quite honest, if you're going to be a top performer at this pretty decent shop, no idea why you want to do an MBA just to go back into consulting. I can understand if you wanted to change to PE, IB, or another industry, but consider the following:
In two years, by the track you've described, you'll be a Senior Consulting 2nd year or transitioning to a Manager. Say you go back to a top school, come out, and you'll be an Associate at MBB making 125k.
In that same time, you'll have spent two years consulting and would be a 2nd year Manager or first year Sr. Manager making 155-180k. Also take into account the 100k tuition and 200-300k salary foregone from not working. The economics just don't make sense.
Add on to the fact that, in those 4 years, if you really were a top performer, you'd actually be on the "partner track" and could make partner in ~3-4 additional years making real money. On the other hand, you'd spend 2 years as an MBB associate, 2 years as an MBB manager... etc.
chron3k, your argument is very convincing. I completely agree that the economics don't make sense. I think the 400K (opportunity) cost associated with an MBA is too much for me, after thinking about it some more. In all honesty, I think I would be equally happy making 800K as a partner at a firm like Deloitte or making 1.5MM as a partner at McKinsey. I honestly think that there's nothing I can't do with 800K per year that I can do with 1.5MM a year, other than leaving my kids a bigger trust fund, which I don't think is a good idea in the first place.
Anyway, I really appreciate the comments and advice. If you don't mind, chron3k, I'd like to know about your career goals, where you work etc. PM me if you'd like to share.
Based on what I know from people who have done it, I would definitely expect a demotion when moving to MBB from a tier 2/big 4. Recently, one Manager (almost Senior Manager) lateral-ed into MBB and became the equivalent of a senior consultant
Shift from other consulting firm to MBB (Originally Posted: 08/28/2011)
Hi everyone, I just got an offer from the biotech practice at a British consulting firm (not OW) in the US. The work they do is more implementation than strategy consulting. My ultimate goal is to getting into MBB to do strategy consulting and I'm undecided on the offer since I don't know if working for a lesser known consulting firm is actually going to hurt my chances in getting into MBB after 1 year or 2.
A little about myself. I majored in biology in college (a good university in England but not Cambridge/oxford) and received my master degree in statistics/public health at a Ivy school (High GPA, CFA candidate-passed level 2). I'm currently working in a pharmaceutical company as a statistician. I haven't applied to MBB for this year and I don't know if I should stay with my current firm as a statistician or take the offer and make the transition after 1/2 years.
I'd really appreciate if anyone can offer some insights on this, especially I'd like to hear from someone who's already in MBB. How likely is it for me to make the transition after working for implementation-focused consulting firm? If I apply now to MBB, what are my chances of getting an interview? Is it better to stay working as a statistician and apply to MBB? Thanks!
I asked a similar comment a few weeks ago. In a similar position (1st year analyst in big4 S&O, with Masters and strong GPA) - was told that lateral hires from 2nd tier firms to MBB was pretty much impossible, however getting entry to a top10 MBA programme should be attainable due to consulting experience and prior masters. While both situations seem like a long shot (in terms of staying in stats vs biotech consulting) - i would definitely take the consulting role - it would at least send a strong signal to MBB employers that you are serious about a consulting career. Interesting point though- i look forward to hearing some other responses.
Donni502, thanks for your reply. I found your post and according to the replies you get, the possibility of transition is close to zero, which is very discouraging. :( Would like to hear more opinions on this..
Also, when they say impossible, as in impossible to get an interview? What about networking to get an interview? and I thought once you have the interview, it all depends on your performance (behavior questions and etc) and case.
You just have to find an office that's growing really fast. It's definitely possible, you'll lose some tenure though. My office has hired two laterals in the last six months at that level.
Hi petergibbons, thanks for your reply. Which country are you in? and what level is hired, post-MBA or analyst?
USA, and both. Slightly more common as an Analyst, or to lateral with more experience and come in as Principal, though I don't see why it wouldn't work in the middle.
Thanks petergibbons! by any chance you know how they got the interview, say just online application or networking? Can you give me some advice in terms how to prepare for the transition? Thanks!
Agreed, it's possible and does happen. I can name at least 10 people at my MBB who started at a lower tier firm. Some had to take a lower level position though. I know two people got in through a headhunter (one Analyst, one Associate), others no idea. This is for UK.
It is possible but very difficult. I just left MBB a few months ago; in my office, there were 3-4 people who moved from 2nd tier firms. All 3-4 were analyst level.
If you are trying to lateral in from another firm, the best way is to get a recommendation from a current employee. This can help you get an interview, but not an offer. That will be up to you during interviews.
Like Peter said above, it is best to find an office that is trying to grow rapidly (not so simple in today's economic environment). The reason is that offices that are not trying grow rapidly can easily fill their recruiting requirements from universities (undergrad for analysts and MBA/other post-grad for associates) and will not spend time pursuing lateral hires.
Anyway, the take-away is that lateraling in from another firm is possible but very rare.
I think the easiest way (or perhaps the higher-probability option) is to get an MBA from a top-10 MBA program, then join as an associate. So either stay in your current role or join the British consulting firm, whichever you think will help you get into a top MBA program. Then try to do your summer internship at MBB. Hopefully that works out; if not, you can always try for full-time in your 2nd year of b-school.
petergibbons, Enid and DagwoodDeluxe, thanks for your replies! It's good to know that it's possible to make the transition although I know it'll be hard. Looks like my best choice is to take the offer. At the same time, I should be doing more networking and keep practicing cases to make sure I don't mess up if I get an interview in the future!
Totally possible, especially with your good credentials. I agree with the previous commenters suggesting applying to a growing office, or one that works a lot in the field within which you have experience.
Have a current employee recommend you. If you don't know anyone personally, find someone who graduated from your school via linked in or your school's career resources center. It is really difficult to get your resume noticed when you dump it from the internet. An internal cheerleader is key, especially in the case of a later transfer.
Cheers and good luck.
Are lateral hires from 2nd tier firms subjected to the same case interviews as normal hires?
Anyone have any success stories they can post?
Yeah, I'd like to see some success stories.
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