Moving up the ranks

So I will be interning at a boutique investment bank this summer as I unfortunately could not secure a position with a Big 4 accounting firm. Given the level of prestige of working in accounting, what do you beleive my chances are of breaking into the industry if I work in banking this summer. Any thoughts?

 

please. while its not the case it should be. Big 4 can do everything Ibanks do (adviory wise etc), and if we are talking adviing on a transaction you can get a much more holistic service from a big 4 if you think about it.

They can deal with the due diligence better then a bank every could (audit), the transaction (transaction service, m&a whatever it is), tax implicaitons of the transactions, best way to structure etc (tax, transfer pricing etc.). And further consulting ie (supply chain etc).

Plus big4 while being in it for the dollars are not as money hungry and will not take the risk of ibanks and sell you up the wrong path. Especially since the partners can be quite liable in a lot of situations

Big 4 Accounting Guide to Getting Hired Contains interview questions, exactly how to answer, resume guide, how to make an impact and a guide to the firms and service lines.
 

well, obviously the money.

Look ibanking certainly attract the top talent, but I think big 4 attracts talent that is right near that level. The only difference might be they didnt necessarily go to a brand name school or something.

But probably the main reason is that the ibanks can arrange the financing and etc, which is one of the hardest parts probably to push through for the deal to happen. Big 4s cant do this as far as im aware, they certainly dont have their own financing resources to do this. So this is another important reason why

Big 4 Accounting Guide to Getting Hired Contains interview questions, exactly how to answer, resume guide, how to make an impact and a guide to the firms and service lines.
 
Best Response

Balooshi,

I think you're understating the difference in quality of work from a Big 4 firm versus an investment bank.

First of all, an investment bank is going to work around the clock to make sure they hit the most insane, unrealistic deadlines they can possibly set. They don't charge on an hourly basis, so you can work them to death and still get a reasonable bill (until the deal closes).

Second of all, the relationships that bankers have are far more substantial than those of partners working at big 4 firms.

Third of all, and most importantly, banks churn out substantially higher-quality work product. I've seen offering memorandums that were crafted by the likes of KPMG for a sale process and they are pretty terrible in comparison to the good investment banks. I was talking with a senior guy at the private equity shop I am going to work at and he said that they like pursuing deals that aren't led by a major investment bank because they know they can get the business cheap.

Just some things to keep in mind.

~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

I do agree with you compbanker in that investment bankers will work harder. But dont discount the hard work that big4 staff put in, they also work long hours.

But I think quality wise there is not much different. At the end of the day its all bullshit from both either way. And I think it varies a lot from firm to city.

And relationships? I find that comment ridiculous. partners at big 4 have substantial relationships with clients etc. I mean we have clients that are fully services by so many departments in our firm, its one big happy family!!

Big 4 Accounting Guide to Getting Hired Contains interview questions, exactly how to answer, resume guide, how to make an impact and a guide to the firms and service lines.
 

Balooshi,

It isn't how many relationships you as much as with who you have the relationships. You could be interacting with every one of a company's accountants, tax people, and other mid-level staff and none of these relationships would matter. At an investment bank, a relationship is maintained with either a C-level executive or the head of business development / M&A. You're frequently interacting with them regarding their acquisition criteria and showing them other deals that you've got in the market. This is the key relationship and trumps having even a multitude of touch points between your two companies.

~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

My exposure to an accounting career path consists of 2 incidents... both while I was in college.

1- I walked into the career center early one morning in a pair of destroyed jeans, flip flops, and a t-shirt only to see a sexy woman in a business suit from PwC or KPMG (I dont recall which one) who asked me "are you here for the PwC interview?"

2- a douche bag who was being made fun of by a professor in class firing back a comment to him: "thats why I'll be working at Grant-Thornton starting at 50K" The professor expression said "Exactly."

 
Marcus_Halberstram:
My exposure to an accounting career path consists of 2 incidents... both while I was in college.

1- I walked into the career center early one morning in a pair of destroyed jeans, flip flops, and a t-shirt only to see a sexy woman in a business suit from PwC or KPMG (I dont recall which one) who asked me "are you here for the PwC interview?"

2- a douche bag who was being made fun of by a professor in class firing back a comment to him: "thats why I'll be working at Grant-Thornton starting at 50K" The professor expression said "Exactly."

Hilarious.

 

The quality of Big 4 deliverables, the depth of their insight, and the substance of their roles on transactions pale in comparison to banks.

There's also a huge cultural gap. Big 4 firms still have a lot of the career-track mentality. They tend to nurture their younger people and take a more active interest in their development because they want them for 20+ years. At the same time, the compensation isn't in line with the value you add - and the most frustrating aspect is that you always get the "this is the max we're giving to your level" excuse.

I think people who are confident in their work and desire a meritocracy should opt for banking. Right now there's probably more work in Big 4 firms, but my impression is that a steeper curve and a pick up in IPOs will mean good news for banking.

 

Not to insult or offend anyone here but isn't it true that accountants make more than Investment Bankers on a per hour basis. I know that at the Big 4 you get 6 weeks vacation/year, only work between 50-55 hours a week and make between 50-55K in your 1st year. What do you guys think?

 
PeterGriffin:
Not to insult or offend anyone here but isn't it true that accountants make more than Investment Bankers on a per hour basis. I know that at the Big 4 you get 6 weeks vacation/year, only work between 50-55 hours a week and make between 50-55K in your 1st year. What do you guys think?

Why would anyone be offended? I'm sure a manager at Target or a seasoned auto mechanic makes more an hour than bankers too.

Also, a rough eye ball on the numbers (not including OT and a half, and double time for OT), 150K on a 90 hr week is a little over $30 an hour, 55K on a 50hr week is a little over $20 an hour.

 

PeterGriffin,

It depends heavily on the bonus number. In a hot market, 1st year analyst bonuses were nearing $100k. In the current market, Big 4 is going to win on an hourly basis. However, that's just at the junior level. I calculated my pay rate using conservative bonus numbers and realistic work hours at the private equity firm I'm going to work at and came out with $50/hr. However, I never would have been able to get that job if I didn't spend two years as a banking analyst first. The equivalent calculation can be done for senior bankers versus Big 4 partners.

~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 
PeterGriffin:
I agree if they both work 52 weeks a year than bankers make more. However, Big 4 gives you 6 weeks vacation so essentially you work only 46 weeks a year

Compare to a school teacher working 8-4, weekends off, vacation ever single holiday, spring break, winter break, summer vacation. They probably work 35-40 weeks a year.... in a decent school district they make about 45K.

Not really even close to a banking career. So thats not necessarily an appropriate metric.

 

PeterGriffin,

As Marcus points out, part of the issue is where you max out. Say you were given an offer to work two different part time jobs, one paid $50/hr and required 5 hours a week. The other paid $45/hr and required 10 hours a week. Which would you take?

Sure, one pays an extra $5/hour, but your max earning potential is $250/week, versus $450/week for the other job. Maybe, just maybe, you'd be willing to take an hourly pay cut to earn more overall? While I still believe banking offers a better hourly rate, part of the allure is the ability to pull in well over $100k your first year out of college (granted at the expense of your health and free time). Very few jobs offer that sort of potential.

~~~~~~~~~~~ CompBanker

CompBanker’s Career Guidance Services: https://www.rossettiadvisors.com/
 

Comparing Big 4 with IBD based on a salary level in your first years does not make much sense. Most people start in IBD to move into the more interesting areas a few years down the line, potentially with significantly larger salaries than what a Big 4 partner, or somebody having pursued a "Big 4 exit opportunity" (not sure what that is), ever would hope to earn. Therefore, in a comparison of $/h, one should include expected average life time earnings, and not cash in your first years. Completely irrelevant.

 

It's like comparing between a top university and a state school. You "earn" less in the present by paying 45k vs. 15k. Sure, you'll have to pay 45k to go to a top uni vs. 15k to go to a state school, but actual value is based on future opportunities/payouts.

 

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