MSRE or MBA for investment career?

What is the value of a MSRE in the real estate investment field...from what I have seen most people with MSRE's tend to be in development roles (I was at a good program and left because of this reason)..

Is there any value in a MSRE for investment, or is it only for MBA's?

Also from what I have seen/people I know, a lot of people in real estate (unless they are accountants) do not even have advanced real estate education. They may have a BS in Finance/BA/Econ/Real Estate and thats it.

So:

  1. Does a MSRE help breaking into top RE companies for investment/acquisition purposes?
  2. Is a top MBA the only way to go?
  3. Do you NEED graduate school to progress?
 

I think you are generally right in terms of the types of firms that will value the MSRE. In the real estate world, there's a spectrum of firms in acquisitions ranging from those closest to Wall Street (the big RE PE shops) to those closest to the "dirt" (developers and operators). An MSRE would be most helpful with the latter, less so with the former.

If by "top RE companies for investment/acquisition" you are referring to the well-known RE PE mega funds, then it's not likely an MBA will be that helpful either unless you have pre-MBA investment banking and RE PE experience. You'll probably be looking at something between the two ends of the spectrum that I've described (think of a firm like Hines, PREI, AEW, etc.), in which case I think an MBA is somewhat more advantageous and flexible, but not necessarily much better than an MSRE.

The MSRE is a slightly more rare and niche-y degree that could be perceived as a "shortcut," so you may find people respect and understand an MBA a bit better. But I am in agreement with the comment above: graduate degrees are far more rare and irrelevant in real estate than other parts of finance.

 

As someone who contemplated both degrees and went with the top MBA option, I am most likely a bit biased, but I will give my thought rationale on the value of an advanced degree.

  1. Are there RE companies that do not care if you have an advanced degree? - YES
  2. Are there RE companies that prefer an advanced degree? - YES
  3. Are there companies that will fault you for having an advanced degree? - YES, and in most cases this is because they simply don't want to hire a mid level person/pay them a mid level salary. They want an analyst that will be cheaper and run models, power points, etc.

Conclusion: An advanced degree can only help your chances of receiving a decent associate/VP level job in RE Investment. Its not a magic bullet that will get someone with no RE/Finance experience a job at Blackstone, but it will help a person with RE/Finance experience at many companies. If you want to get an idea of companies that value MBAs, go to Select Leaders and search "acquisitions." There are plenty of positions that say "MBA preferred" or "advanced degree preferred." There are also positions that say "advanced degree a plus." I do think in most cases, the MBA is preferred of the MSRE, but you also see some smaller shops where everyone has an MSRE, and they generally all got it from the same school.

 

I do not have an MBA or MSRE, but I was thinking about this for the future. Wouldn't it make more sense to get a MSRE if you are dedicated to RE and that is where your career is. In simple terms, the classroom material is all RE related, so I'm sure you will expand your knowledge and also networking events will most likely be RE related so you can expand your network in the field.

I understand your points on the MBA for RE PE mega funds, but it just seems advantageous to get the MSRE over MBA. Not sure why they would prefer the MBA over MSRE.

 

CREInvestors, a lot of times things you have on your resume (prior jobs, degrees, etc.) are less about what you learned and more about pedigree. This is why many bulge bracket banks often favor Ivy League liberal arts majors over non-target finance majors. In the same way, an MSRE may offer more relevant knowledge from a real estate perspective, but the MBA from a top school is still often seen as the gold standard for graduate business pedigree.

MBAREALESTATE, I agree with the vast majority of what you wrote but take issue with your explanation to point #3. Obviously I'm quite biased since I am a non-MBA former banking analyst in RE PE. I would note, though, that many places which focus on hiring ex-IBD analysts, avoid MBA hiring, and promote from within are the top paying firms in the RE PE industry, and in the rare case when they do hire from MBA programs, they often slot those associates in at the same level as pre-MBA associate hires (unlike generalist PE, where there is almost always a sr. associate role). This would seem to contradict the notion that avoidance of MBA hiring is a result of compensation stinginess on the part of hiring firms.

I realize this is not always the case, but I have observed this enough that I am concerned that if I myself were to go for an MBA, I could basically end up taking a pay cut coming out.

 
Best Response

I think I've commented on this before. As someone who went down the MSRE route (right out of ugrad so an MBA wasn't an option) I would say that for my specific circumstance it was better than an MBA. But the point here is that it is very circumstantial. The better MBAs will open more doors than the better MSRE programs and an MBA will give you more career flexibility. One trend that I am seeing however, is that as more MSRE grads are getting into hiring positions, they are tending to favour MSRE grads. I am guilty of this and actively recruit from my MSRE program.

I think there is also a large difference between the MSRE programs out there. I would only suggest a very small handful to attend. I have also mentioned that only the top 10% in the class get the jobs that 75% of the class aspire to have, so you really only benefit if you are a stand-out candidate. In this respect, the odds of getting to where you want to be are slim unless you have an angle already.

Also, to echo what re-ib-nyc has said, REPE firms tend to hire young re bankers and promote within without an MBA (and minimally hire MBAs), so there is possibility for the MSRE to be helpful if you get it immediately after undergrad.

 

CREInvestors, I've always heard MIT's program is the best MSRE.

re-ib-ny, which top firms are you talking about? I see a number of major players (Starwood, BlackRock, Beacon, CBRE Investors, Brookfield, MSREI) in MBA employment reports. I doubt they are bringing in a new class of MBAs each year, but I gotta think there are a number of firms in the industry that hire MBAs. That being said, I am also biased/hopeful in my thinking, given that I am trying to find my way into REPE after MBA school. And I have never worked in REPE, so admittedly, you know more than I do.

 

MBAREALESTATE, I think some of your questions have probably been answered in the other REPE thread you started (which has prompted some interesting discussion). Of the firms you listed, BlackRock is an institutional asset manager, and CBREI and Brookfield are not really considered true RE PE in my mind. Starwood, Beacon, and MSREI are true RE PE, though (MSREI is pretty closely related to RE IBD at MS, and so they hire MBAs as associates).

As with conventional PE funds, a handful of RE PE funds will hire MBAs to senior associate ranks but look for pre-MBA RE PE experience. Other firms hire for acquisitions and Asset Management separately.

 
re-ib-ny:
As with conventional PE funds, a handful of RE PE funds will hire MBAs to senior associate ranks but look for pre-MBA RE PE experience. Other firms hire for acquisitions and Asset Management separately.

It seems that pre-MBA REPE experience is pretty much a pre-req to get into REPE post-MBA. Are there any exceptions? Do you think an MBA (assuming a top program) would have any shot at getting into the business by shooting for an associate role (i.e. one that the REIB analysts shoot for)? Obviously would require some serious networking, but would like to hear your thoughts. Its not like these associates aren't getting paid. For the most part it seems they are getting paid very well, and probably competitive with a lot of REIB associates (a typical post MBA job).

 

I am sure that there are exceptions, but they're pretty rare and I can't point to any consistent examples.

Shooting for a pre-MBA associate role doesn't really improve odds. I've noted before that the tendency to hire post-IBD analysts for associate roles is motivated by preference, not cost consciousness (as you've observed, the big funds pay their pre-MBA associates comparably to most MBAs).

The reality is that most of the existing talent pool at major PE funds (including RE PE) is made up of folks who went through an IBD or consulting analyst program (some of whom did an MBA along the way), they'll tend to hire their own, and there are enough of them out there that there isn't really a need to deviate from the template.

 

The GMAT is not a requirement for an application into the Georgetown MRED program. This is because the MRED program is not through it's School of Business, instead it's offered through the School of Continuing Studies (SCS); not accredited or ranked. Georgetown University is arguably the top institution in DC, and ranked #23 nationally. However, the SCS is not in the same league as their other schools, and the tuition reflects that at $31K for the MRED program; about the same as George Mason's in-state and $6K less than Johns Hopkins. I don't think it's a bad program, but not the best either. Most notably, I want to go to business school not a school of continuing studies; IMO that is a huge difference. Now Georgetown's School of Business does offer an MBA with an RE concentration, but that not only requires a GMAT it requires a very high undergrad GPA with very relevant undergrad coursework, and their MBA costs $124K = way too far outside of my budget.

 

Don't have enough experience with any of this to comment on programs, but just wanted to say do not put much stock in rankings for these universities when making your decision. In your case the specific program is much more important than the university as a whole. Check employment reports and other career centre information from these schools to see what kind of jobs people have been able to get after graduating.

 

I'm still pretty young in my career and have no first-hand experience of your situation, but I do have an MRE and work at a development firm, so you can take this for what you want..

I would advise against MSRED because after 27 years in the industry you should have a solid network that can help vouch for your experience and I don't think an extra degree saying that you're a developer will put you over the top. None of the developers at my company have additional degrees, but they are guys with plenty of experience dealing with the municipalities, A&E's, land owners, GC's, etc, and they get the deals done. Three years in the classroom isn't going to teach you that, and based on your certfications, I would guess that you have had plenty of experience with most of those parties.

As for the MBA, do you feel that it would truly help you build on your core competencies? At 50 years old, I would probably stick to a few things that you are best at, which sounds primarily design or PM related, and I'm not sure that an MBA would really make you stand out for a position leading a team of Arch's or PM's. Financing real estate on a project-by-project basis in the way that merchant developers often do is fairly simple and something that doesn't require a specialized degree. On the other hand, if you intend to get into more complicated fund/company level financing that an MBA would be beneficial for, you are likely out of your core-competency and competing with finance guys that have much more of a background doing such things.

I would think doing some home-study to improve on places where you might be weak, or following job boards to see what type of positions are opening up more regularly and prepping specifically for those interviews would be your best option. You've got the experience and I think that is most valuable for the positions you're best suited for. On top of it all, the opportunity cost of not not working, coupled with tuition sounds bad, but not nearly as bad as graduating at 53 and working another 20 years to make up for it.

 

Great comments, and certainly worth taking into consideration. I love the straight forward honest truth of this board, please keep it coming (this monkey gotta think skull)! Another reason studying makes sense for me is the flexibility I have to continue working without any lost time/income and my employer will reimburse me $2,600 annually...sort of hate to not take advantage of that. Attending GMU School of Management for a MSRED would cost me a little over $20K after employer contribution and that is a pretty small loan; could possibly pay in cash as I go along. An MBA however is more than twice the cost of an MSRED.

BTW 50 AIN'T OLD, if you haven't heard it's the new 40! I have good genes, all my hair is on my head, 6'1" 190 lbs, work out every day for 2 hours and most of the 30ish year olds can't keep up with me in strength training, although I admit they're probably quicker. :)

 

After much contemplation I've come to the conclusion (monkey brain in overdrive) that in my cases, having 27 years of professional experience in the design/construction/development industry, and zero desire to ever switch gears towards anyother industries, the very specialized focus of a Master of Science degree makes most sense. If I were 23 years old and didn' have this much specific background in one thing then I would opt for the MBA with a concentration, which is more generalized, appliable to a wide range of industries, therefore having a much wider array of future opportunities. I am in process of interviewing GMU and JHU MSRED programs by meeting with the Executive Directors, sitting in on courses, speaking with alumni, etc. Naturally, both program have their advantages/disadvantages, so I have defined criteria and am associating priority levels to each. I hope to make a final determination by end of February. Thank you for the feedback!

 

Hi, I would need a direction from you as I am in a very similar situation like you. The difference is that i have a lot less experience in our Architectural profession then you. I am working from last 12+ years as an Architect and am 35 years old. At this time, I am kind of tired of Architecture and its low salary structure with so much of work and stress load. I am honestly making $90,000 at my 12th year and dont see myself $120K+ in next 5 or even 10 years for sure. But i would like to be at that level and thought MBA or a MSRED would be a great option, instead of going for the Architectural Registration. However i like finance & real estate but not really in love with Architecture at all. So i am open to pursue any other like a general MBA as well. One big Problem is GMAT, after 12 years of disconnect from education, plus the high expenses of MBA. I would like to know that pursuing an MSRED would really give a substantial career move or a general MBA / MBA in finance is the only option. What direction you suggest and could you name any good programs in New York area. I would really appreciate your comments. Thank you.

 

I work at a major REPE company and I'd def say MBA (in terms of hiring).

You can always take the MSRED classes at Columbia (if you do Columbia MBA) to supplement your track if needed.

For full disclosure, I had that choice and I opted to for the MBA at Columbia (class of '16)

 

Thanks for the response, I also have very little work experience in real estate, just a summer internship at a family-run (not my family) non-brand name pere firm. Started my own retail business and sold it after 4 years. would that change your advice? based on your experience what kind of jobs do you think id be able to get after MBA vs MSRED Columbia?

 

If anything I think that would push you more towards MBA - the MSRED classes are very specific and technical. the MBA will give you a broader spectrum of classes, and has more prestige behind it.

 

Regardless of which path you take, I think you need more work experience. You even said so yourself. It's not just a check the box for getting into a school, but in my experience, going to graduate school (whether MBA or MSRE) is much more beneficial when you have experience and skills behind you. Not sure why you're in such a rush.

I'd also hone your long-term goals. The investment side differs from the development side, and which program you choose (MBA/MSRE/MSRED/MRED) may depend on that.

And raise that gmat score. Much more than 620.

Good luck.

 

@"kjl" : Yes I definitely want to raise my GMAT as high as possible. Also understand where you are coming from in regards to the work experience my thoughts were that I'm already in the school frame of mind and feel that it would be easier to continue my course work now as oppose to 3-5 years down the road.

@pe_re24 : I have seen those threads and read through them however i felt like i would be able to get more help if I went ahead and started my own thread? not sure if that is true or not. Would you recommend switching this into the real estate forum category?

Thanks for the responses guys

 

Regarding the MBA vs. MSRE- There are several threads on here already discussing that, which you should check out. I will say this though, general consensus has seemed to be top MBA > MSRE Regarding CFA, through some RE informationals I've had, I've gotten the impression it's marginally helpful at best. It's more of an ER, AM type of thing. Showing interest is never bad, but the CFA is a wayyyy over elaborate way to do so unless you're aiming for the previously mentioned industries, imo. Edit: I'll take this last part off for you, lol.

GBS
 

If you have the time and the money for the CFA, do it...it can't hurt you.

As for school, I would say the MBA>MSRE...especially if you find an MBA program that has a RE concentration or electives. Your best bet for success would be to get into a solid RE analyst role for a couple years before b-school, but I realize that's easier said than done.

An MBA wouldn't be a bad way to go but that will partly depend on where you could get in.

Maybe study a bit more for the CFA and take level 1 all while searching for the RE positions that interest you. Depending on how long you've been at your current position (2+ years), you could scratch the CFA part, for now, and focus on the GMAT, see what score you get and what schools that would make you competitive for. If you do well, and have the requisite work experience, you could apply to schools in the first and second rounds this year and matriculate in the Fall of 2013.

The key here, as is with many of life's endeavors, is running parallel processes. Time is short and shouldn't be wasted, so you have to multitask your life decisions. Pursue all paths at this point, assuming you have the time, and then choose to focus more on one or the other as you see fit. If you are getting little-to-no traction with RE analyst positions, then focus more on the GMAT and make that your number 1 escape plan. If you are getting interviews, etc. for FT RE positions then focus on that and polishing your shortcomings. If you don't have great work experience at this point and the job search doesn't pan out then plug along with the CFA, study for the GMAT and then plan to go to b-school when you've got the experience needed to get into the school(s) you are looking at.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 
cphbravo96:
If you have the time and the money for the CFA, do it...it can't hurt you.

As for school, I would say the MBA>MSRE...especially if you find an MBA program that has a RE concentration or electives. Your best bet for success would be to get into a solid RE analyst role for a couple years before b-school, but I realize that's easier said than done.

An MBA wouldn't be a bad way to go but that will partly depend on where you could get in.

Maybe study a bit more for the CFA and take level 1 all while searching for the RE positions that interest you. Depending on how long you've been at your current position (2+ years), you could scratch the CFA part, for now, and focus on the GMAT, see what score you get and what schools that would make you competitive for. If you do well, and have the requisite work experience, you could apply to schools in the first and second rounds this year and matriculate in the Fall of 2013.

The key here, as is with many of life's endeavors, is running parallel processes. Time is short and shouldn't be wasted, so you have to multitask your life decisions. Pursue all paths at this point, assuming you have the time, and then choose to focus more on one or the other as you see fit. If you are getting little-to-no traction with RE analyst positions, then focus more on the GMAT and make that your number 1 escape plan. If you are getting interviews, etc. for FT RE positions then focus on that and polishing your shortcomings. If you don't have great work experience at this point and the job search doesn't pan out then plug along with the CFA, study for the GMAT and then plan to go to b-school when you've got the experience needed to get into the school(s) you are looking at.

Regards

+1

The Auto Show
 

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